Decisive Strike

I want to preface this suggestion with the fact that I don't particularly have a problem with how it works now. I'm not a DS hater, nor do I even run it that often as a Survivor. Listening to the endless complaints (from Survivor and Killer mains) has led me to give it some thought on how I would rework it, if I had the ability to do so. This is my humble suggestion:

Decisive Strike

This ability activates the moment the Survivor is unhooked and stays active until the Survivor interacts with the environment in any way, i.e. works on a Generator, Heals (or is healed), cleanses a Totem, etc., or until another Survivor is hooked. This means it could remain active for quite some time or end almost immediately. While active it functions normally with a the Skill Check to get free and temporarily stun the Killer. Tier-1 stuns the Killer for 3 seconds, Tier-2 stuns for 4 seconds, and Tier-3 stuns for 5 seconds. *Decisive Strike will deactivate (and cannot reactivate) once the EGC has begun.

*This would transform DS into a true anti-Tunnel Perk, and clearly limit what the Survivor can do without deactivating it. It would also give the Killer impetus to hook someone else quickly to turn it off. It provides both a Buff to the Perk, and a Nerf in that the Killer (and Survivor) can deactivate it.

I want to emphasize again that this suggestion isn't given with any passionate fury. I'm not really invested in the debate over this Perk, which is why I can look at it without bias. Most people think of this Perk as an "anti-tunnel" Perk, but I'm not sure if that was actually the intent. My suggested rework would make it clearly that.

Tagged: Mod

Comments

  • This would most likely lead to that survivor focusing on getting into a chase with the killer aswell as body blocking for other survivors, while also practically guaranteeing an escape if an exit gate is open.

  • @NoOneKnowsNova said:

    This would most likely lead to that survivor focusing on getting into a chase with the killer aswell as body blocking for other survivors, while also practically guaranteeing an escape if an exit gate is open.

    That is a different issue really, as I don't think Decisive Strike should remain active once the EGC has begun. I suppose I should have put that in the rework above to be clear. I'll add it.

  • I do like that interacting with a gen/totem/healing would cancel DS, I think that's a great idea. I don't like the idea of an unlimited timer, I think the timer should still be 60s or even a bit less...but pause the timer when slugged. I think that way you'd at least solve the issue of a survivor who's unhooked and then goes immediately to work on a gen (obviously not being tunneled at that point) but who then overcommits to the gen to get pulled off it in order to use DStrike.

    It's going to be a difficult perk to balance and I am sure that not everyone is going to be happy with any change, if any change happens to it.

  • @Mandy said:

    I do like that interacting with a gen/totem/healing would cancel DS, I think that's a great idea. I don't like the idea of an unlimited timer, I think the timer should still be 60s or even a bit less...but pause the timer when slugged. I think that way you'd at least solve the issue of a survivor who's unhooked and then goes immediately to work on a gen (obviously not being tunneled at that point) but who then overcommits to the gen to get pulled off it in order to use DStrike.

    It's going to be a difficult perk to balance and I am sure that not everyone is going to be happy with any change, if any change happens to it.

    Well it isn't truly unlimited. It will end the moment someone else is hooked or the EGC starts. :) I put in that potentially extended length to appease the Survivors, and to make sure that it truly does function as an anti-tunnel Perk. The Killers will KNOW how it works and are likely to focus on getting someone else on the hook as quickly as possible to turn it off and avoid the hit. In my mind it was kind of a compromise to make both sides happy. I think the not interacting with anything (and EGC deactivate) will please Killers, and the extended duration unless the Survivor or Killers acts to end it, to please the Survivors.

    But you are right, no rewrite (done by anyone) is going to be liked by everyone. :)

  • I like this DS it seems on paper very fair i would point out to the 1st post about how it could lead to survivors trying to bodyblock getting into chase with killer etc that would actually be a intreresting gameplay for the killer on how to handle that situation cause you know the survivor cant do any interaction or even be healed so you can let them be the annoying fly as you know that one person less on gens or anything else or you can slug them and if another survivor heals them up or i would imangine using UB or soul guard would deactivate ds aswell boom ds is gone.

    Overall this would be the best version of DS in my opopion Nice work hope the devs do this kinda of change to it :)

  • @[Deleted User] said:

    I really like the idea of making the perk deactivate the second a survivor heals to full or does an action, or after a teammate is hooked. I would actually also keep the 60 second timer, though. Without it I'm a bit worried that a confident looper would just intentionally aggro the killer and then be guaranteed to have DS active while slugged. The killer would have no choice but to slug and leave if the player was playing that way, or to just ignore them entirely. Even if they didn't actually have DS, the killer would still have to respect it.

    If there were some other method for preventing survivors from playing hyper-aggressive without a timer I would be all ears, but a timer combined with your idea solves at least a good chunk of the issues with it.

    Well nothing would stop them from being very aggressive, but nothing would stop the Killer from ignoring them, or slugging them.

    Example-1:

    Meg w/Flashlight gets unhooked and her DS activates. She decides to get very aggressive because of it. The Killer can just ignore her and work on getting someone else on the hook. This would give her a chance to try and blind you or body block (sure). Or you could just slug her, hook the other person and her DS deactivates and then you hook her too. :)

    Remember, in fairness, any redesign of DS has to benefit both Survivor and Killer mains in some way. There is always a trade off. I don't see them getting aggro as a problem because the Killer has answers to that in game.

  • I like it... I'm patient. All the body blocking in your face tbags due to unlimited invulnerability will be fine. I don't mind waiting for a bleed out. Or slug n ignore til next hook...

  • @[Deleted User] said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1667476#Comment_1667476

    If the killer had a way of knowing if the survivor had DS I'd like that, but if someone is good at looping and you're not using a killer like Nurse that doesn't care, you're probably going to waste a lot of time to slug them. If you choose not to slug, that's fine, but if they didn't have DS you'd be hurting yourself by passing up the opportunity for an easy hook. This is even worse if you don't know where any other survivors are, meaning you'd have to go right back to tracking. That just feels like a silly 50/50, and something that is very far removed from the anti-tunnel niche I think this perk should occupy.

    I don't agree that a redesign to DS needs to benefit both sides. The perk simply needs to be more balanced; the devs don't owe mains of one side or another anything. DS is OP right now in my opinion and I would be happy for it to be weakened when it is reworked.

    Every time you eat a DS, you're going from a state with 1 incapacitated survivor to 0, and the survivor gets a free health state. If you think about it that way, it's basically Adrenaline, but you gain even more distance on the killer, the effect is always timely and useful whereas Adrenaline can activate when you're already at full health and out of a chase, and it activates from the killer doing their objective rather than from survivors doing theirs. That's extremely strong, and I therefore think it should be exclusively reserved for cases where the killer is tunneling. If so, the mere threat of DS is a powerful deterrent to tunneling. As is, killers are often seriously punished in cases where they didn't even come close to tunneling. I know that wasn't the devs' stated intention with this perk, but that's how I think it needs to change.

    Well that goes toward Killer accountability. If they went with this suggested change, you would KNOW who could have it potentially activated. The second they are unhooked (and you know who you put on the hook) you know it has activated IF they have it. You know if you hook someone else it is turned off IF they have it. Do you see what I mean. There is always risk and always some information you have to make educated guesses or play the odds on. :) My suggestion isn't intended to make it completely without risk for either side, merely to make it the most balanced I can, and tune it to be more effective as an anti-tunnel Perk.

  • @[Deleted User] said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1667621#Comment_1667621

    With a 60 second timer you can be sure at some point, though. Just leave them alone for a bit and you're good. With this method, you really can't. You can send the first guy who gets unhooked to follow the Trapper around and disarm all of his traps, for example, because he has DS up and is therefore impossible to hook. With a 60 second timer, they can't really do that because their protection would run out shortly after. With no timer, you can just do that indefinitely. The Trapper would be forced to either take the chase and then slug or eat the DS, which would be a massive waste of time, or they'd have to accept being an M1 killer with no power. If disarming a trap counted as an action for DS purposes that would solve this, but that feels overly punishing too. Imagine a Trapper loading up the shack with traps and not being able to disarm one on the way out without giving up your DS.

    I think you are overestimating a couple of things:

    1. DS doesn't actually save a Survivor, even when it works.
    2. My method says the DS deactivates the second they interact, so disarming a trap means the Trapper just hits you.

    I considered you concern which is why I say that any interaction will shut DS down. It shut down with interaction or the next Survivor being hooked. So its chief value is in getting AWAY, not hectoring the Killer. :) Following the Killer and going aggro will just go badly for you.

  • @[Deleted User] said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1667858#Comment_1667858

    Why would aggroing the killer not work out? Provided you haven't touched a gen, totem, etc. you'd be encouraging the killer to chase you with almost a full guarantee that you couldn't be hooked if downed. The only way you could be hooked is if the killer finds, downs, and hooks another survivor before you can use UB or get picked up by a teammate, and that's realistically just not very likely. DS doesn't save the survivor, but eating a DS wastes a massive amount of the killer's time. In the time it takes for the killer to chase you, down you, eat the DS, re-chase you, re-down you, and hook you, the killer is probably going to lose a couple of gens. That's especially true for the Legions of the world that struggle to land a second hit on survivors.

    The amount of killer time DS wastes is why even top killers will slug to avoid DS; the whole "just eat the DS and get it out of the way" argument doesn't really work. Yes, one survivor will now be on death hook with no DS, but unless you were way ahead going into that chase, the survivor chases really poorly, or you're playing a highly mobile and deadly killer like Spirit or Nurse, the game is pretty much going to be lost.

    If disarming a trapper trap removes your DS that would at least make it so the DS user is useless to their team if the killer doesn't take the bait, but it would be pretty brutal for dealing with Trappers that actually are tunneling. I suppose Trappers are rare enough though that it doesn't matter a whole lot, though.

    I still don't like making a 50/50 out of injured people clicking flashlights at the killer trying to bait chases while they may or may not have DS. Lose the coin flip and you're probably losing the game. Win the coin flip and you have the right to have a normal chase. I would prefer to just nerf DS so it's more of a defensive tool than an offensive tool.

    Because the Killer can just slug you and let you sit on the ground for one thing, hook someone else and come back and get you now completely safe from your DS. Remember, the second someone else is hooked the DS expires under my rework. Doing pretty much anything interactive ruins it too. Using a Flashlight is also interacting with something. The only safe thing for someone to do is run off and hide, and thus are protected from the tunnel. If they go aggro they get slugged and then the Killer will let you sit there. If you get up with another Perk, like say Unbreakable or recover due to No Mither, one could also set the DS to expire.

    My point is you keep looking for something that isn't there. They CAN go try to annoy you but it isn't a good idea for them. If they just got off the hook they are going down to a single hit. And there they will sit until they bleed out or the Killer hooks someone else. So yes, Survivors can try to annoy the Killer but it isn't going to be a good thing FOR THEM... the Killer will see it like Xmas coming early.

  • It does not make any sense to deactivate on basically every action. Its getting old.

  • @LetsPlayTogether said:

    It does not make any sense to deactivate on basically every action. Its getting old.

    Tell us why then.