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Playing fair should be viable

BaroneMaximus BaroneMaximus
in General Discussions

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi6P7Jxf6AM

Ok, this is what i believe being the best player in this game and i don't base my judgement on the skill (even tho he is pretty skill) But i judge his skill on knowledge and fairness. Basically: He plays fair, he always tries to 12 hook and he never play lame unless he has too, This is exactly me EVERY game. But the outcome is: You get gen rushed and you get mocked for it :\

I believe that the only way to play this game should be the way to make the match fun for both sides and i say this because i play both sides so i know what playing lame both sides mean... But playing fair is NOT rewarding because the outcome is always the same: Gens goes fast and you have no way to match the unfairness of maps (See the pallet at the bathroom right in front of a jungle gym)

Now, anyone else believes that this game should be much more fair/fun and rewarding or it's just me? Because i don't think that escaping or 4king should be important things, not for me, but having challenges and enjoying the game should.

Comments

  • BaroneMaximus BaroneMaximus

    @LetsPlayTogether said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1450607#Comment_1450607

    Ebony vs key. Result 2-2. How can you say that a key is superior? Talking about being entitled. LOL

    Like, you understand that with a mori and noed and devour that are actually the most cancerous perks and offering to go against as killer, they actually managed to escape through key right? They trumped any of the chances i had to win the game by simply opening the hatch, also the more i kill the easier is for them, because of how the hatch works. Like rushing gen is not that big of a deal you know xD

  • BaroneMaximus BaroneMaximus

    @DeanWinchester said:

    Those are my favourite types of matches. It reminds me of when I first started playing.

    Now in red ranks, survivors always wanna gen rush the killer and get out ASAP. I get that escaping is the goal, but where’s the fun? I want a drawn out, well fought match. I want the chases, the totem hunting and chest searching, and the avoiding when the killer comes near. (Not toxic immersive but stealthy.)

    But nope. These days all my teammates wanna do is gen rush the killer and force them to play dirty. They’ll wait until the last possible second before getting chased off a generator.

    I honestly open the exit gate when they rush gens and look to the wall. I mean, if you wanna get out of the trial, be my guest xD I play for your same reasons

  • BaroneMaximus BaroneMaximus

    @Bovinity said:

    The problem here is - as always - people are using words like "fair" when they really mean "farming" or "throwing" or something similar.

    There's nothing "fair" about the "hook everyone once before you hook anyone twice, and hook everyone twice before you kill anyone!" nonsense. You're just asking one side to handicap themselves for your benefit at that point.

    You might as well ask StarCraft players to not pressure you early, or Street Fighter players not to block your combos. And then calling that "fair".

    what

  • BaroneMaximus BaroneMaximus

    @Devil_hit11 said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1451293#Comment_1451293

    Poker is competitive game and its like entirely based off the luck of drawing cards. RNG is not what determines competition. The drive to win does. In DBD, winning is really fun, so when people say stuff like "This killer isn't fun", what they're really saying is they lose a lot to that killer but winning and losing is part of the game. I find it ironic when people say, "Rank doesn't matter and it isn't skill based" and yet people post screens of red rank vs purple/green rank. Another irony is that survivors/swf often smurf rank 20 accounts to face rank 20 killers and than blame matchmaking system. It is very see through. Its why it is important that they eventually looking into making killer emblem system in taking account for killer powers so it has accurate calculations. Anyhow, Myers is really weak killer and hopefully he gets reworked at some point to be strong killer but he is likable character in the game.

    I really wish they would rework myers... Like stalking someone else and then punishing you or whoever doesnt know about his incoming tier 3 is so stupid :\ also there are addons that could make him way way more interesting, but they are not as powerful and atm they are just meme or boring

  • batax90 batax90

    @BaroneMaximus said:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi6P7Jxf6AM

    Ok, this is what i believe being the best player in this game and i don't base my judgement on the skill (even tho he is pretty skill) But i judge his skill on knowledge and fairness. Basically: He plays fair, he always tries to 12 hook and he never play lame unless he has too, This is exactly me EVERY game. But the outcome is: You get gen rushed and you get mocked for it :\

    I believe that the only way to play this game should be the way to make the match fun for both sides and i say this because i play both sides so i know what playing lame both sides mean... But playing fair is NOT rewarding because the outcome is always the same: Gens goes fast and you have no way to match the unfairness of maps (See the pallet at the bathroom right in front of a jungle gym)

    Now, anyone else believes that this game should be much more fair/fun and rewarding or it's just me? Because i don't think that escaping or 4king should be important things, not for me, but having challenges and enjoying the game should.

    Why its only the killer who are unfair and the survivor are never unfair explain that to me. And what is fairness in this game?

  • Devil_hit11 Devil_hit11

    @OutcastEric said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1452058#Comment_1452058

    This game is way more involved than poker though. Its a video game. I cant see the comparisons youre trying to make here. Maybe i just didnt take the time to read between the lines but i dont care enough to. Its my opinion but Myers weak? Are you trolling? lol! use surge, thrilling tremors, pop goes the weasel, and [any perk] id recomend enduring/noed/discordance/nurses/sloppy then tell me hes weak. This build can work on any m1 killer but its dangerous on him because he can one shot you. Any killer that can easily 1 shot a survivor and have stealth capabilities at the same time is definitely not weak. His only weakness is map control but this build compensates for that. True used a build that is hard to pull off and didnt make smart plays in order to win in that video. He purposefully played to lose. Killers arent supposed to play nice if they want to win

    personally, I think 1 shots are highly overrated and very exaggerated/over dramatized in this game. evidence to be shown by having a killer that has 1 shots at infinity rate. A good team can easily beat it as Myers is very loopable. I don't think it matters what perks you use on Myers vs a very good team. The only thing that is good about myers is that he has add-on called purple tombstone that allows you mori people on spot, Other than that, He has very slow stalking without add-on, pretty average/bad stealth and very little agency on loops, very hard to build up 1 shot. He's fun to face as survivor because he's easy to bully at R1. The only way you'll win as him is if survivor is bad looping and you take liberty to camp hooks which tru3 didn't want to do as he knows it is unfun for survivor. Unfortunately Myers can't win the game by outskilling his opponent and that is good sigh of weak killer.

  • MojoTheFabulous MojoTheFabulous

    That would be nice for sure but you've gotta realise that you should suffer when you're choosing to play less efficiently. It makes sense.

  • LetsPlayTogether LetsPlayTogether

    @BaroneMaximus said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1451780#Comment_1451780

    Like, you understand that with a mori and noed and devour that are actually the most cancerous perks and offering to go against as killer, they actually managed to escape through key right? They trumped any of the chances i had to win the game by simply opening the hatch, also the more i kill the easier is for them, because of how the hatch works. Like rushing gen is not that big of a deal you know xD

    NOED probably did never even activate, and devours final stage probably didnt too. Also they needed to do at least three gens to escape with two players. Thats quite hard if you would have been doing well as killer with this setup.

  • danielmaster87 danielmaster87

    @LuffyBlack said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/172538/playing-fair-should-be-viable

    Every game should be fair, fun, and rewarding but I think we need a clear and objective definition on what's considered fair. We also need to be careful because we have at this point created an atmosphere where players are shamed for using certain tactics, perks, or adds on without any nuanced reason as of why. I also believe it's the job of the developers to craft an experience that leads to the player's enjoyment, there's giving us freedom and giving us the power to completely dictate the experiences of others. I don't want that responsibility when I am trying to win against optimal opponents. It's not unreasonable to want to win in a game that pushes both sides to be competitive.

    I do not consider Dead by Daylight to be a party game, its unsure if it wants to be competitive too. The developers either need to make the game into a horror themed sports game or take some measures to ensure that it'll be this fun party game; If they could have the best of both worlds that'd be awesome too.

    Step 1: Make a ranked and an unranked mode. It would solve so many problems.

  • Lumionesty Lumionesty

    @BaroneMaximus said:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi6P7Jxf6AM

    Ok, this is what i believe being the best player in this game and i don't base my judgement on the skill (even tho he is pretty skill) But i judge his skill on knowledge and fairness. Basically: He plays fair, he always tries to 12 hook and he never play lame unless he has too, This is exactly me EVERY game. But the outcome is: You get gen rushed and you get mocked for it :\

    I believe that the only way to play this game should be the way to make the match fun for both sides and i say this because i play both sides so i know what playing lame both sides mean... But playing fair is NOT rewarding because the outcome is always the same: Gens goes fast and you have no way to match the unfairness of maps (See the pallet at the bathroom right in front of a jungle gym)

    Now, anyone else believes that this game should be much more fair/fun and rewarding or it's just me? Because i don't think that escaping or 4king should be important things, not for me, but having challenges and enjoying the game should.

    I actually made a post about this topic a couple days ago. It didn't pick up any traction of the forums but it was a suggestion/change to make playing fair more viable then tunneling.

    @Lumionesty said:

    So I believe a large portion of the community sees both gen rushing and tunneling under a negative light. This discussion post isn't meant to debate if tunneling is a scummy or fair tactic since this forum already has hundreds of discussions on these topic. However to come up with ideas on how to limit tunneling and those games where the killer is unable to keep up with the gen times no matter what they do. I believe I have an idea to limit both these with a rather very simple mechanic.

    Now first I believe I should tackle a fundamental problem with the game. This is that in a situation where both sides only care about winning the game and nothing else, the killers most optimal and viable strategy is to hard tunnel 1 player out of the game as soon as possible. This is because Dead by Daylight is a all about keeping pressure on your opponent and it is far easier for the killer to apply pressure on 3 survivors rather then 4 and it is far easier for 4 survivors to apply pressure on the killer rather then 3.

    This video from Otzdarva showcases this:

    https://youtu.be/q5uUUAz7m1U?t=2

    They also discuss this on Ohtofu's podcast from a couple months ago

    Discussion about this starts at 1:31:52

    https://youtu.be/KCIEQ7CqKWY?t=5512

    So behind all this comes the most common reason killer's tunnel. Which is that it's the easiest way for them to win the game. Meanwhile a game where the killer tunnels is very unfun for the survivors and I don't believe this due to them just losing. I don't believe that fun = winning or unfun = losing. For example I think most survivors would rather lose to a good killer rather then win to a bad camping killer and vice versa for killers. Which brings up the fundamental problem, which is that:

    Problem : The killers most effective and optimal strategy is unfun for the survivors.

    I believe that in a casual non-competitive game like Dead by Daylight, fun should be the most important variable for the game. Which is why the problem is a problem.

    Now at last I come to my suggested solution to maybe fix this problem.

    Solution/Suggested Mechanic:

    Increase the base gen repair speed by (X%)

    Whenever a survivor is hooked for the first time reduce their base gen repair speed by (B%)

    What this mechanic would do is punish Killers who tunnel and award killers who spread out the hooks among the survivors. This would incentivize killers to not tunnel and play more fairly.

    I'm not certain as to what X and B should exactly be to reach balance. I do know however that B should be a larger percentage then X.

    These variables should have enough of an impact that tunneling becomes detrimental to winning the match and that spreading out the hooks among the survivors slows down gen speeds compared to what we have right now.

    So what this simple mechanic would do is:

    1. Punish and deter killers from tunneling due to the consequence of it being detrimental to winning the match as they would be gen rushed harder then ever.
    2. Award and incentivize killers to spread out the hooks among the survivors as this would be the more optimal and effective strategy to winning the game as it would slow down the gens speed thus slowing down the gen rush.
    3. Hopefully overall make the game more fun for both sides.

    One change to this mechanic that might be made is that:

    The base gen repair speed increase only applies once a player has been hooked

    This might be to avoid making those matches where the killer can't find a survivor before a gen is finished even worse.

    I would like you guys to help me with determining what the variables for X and B could be? I was thinking something along the lines of:

    X = 15%

    B = 25% or 30%

    Please do leave criticisms and more suggestions to improve this solution/suggested mechanic.


  • NursesBootie NursesBootie

    @JasmineDragon said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1449879#Comment_1449879

    break the pallet... its called god pallet for a reason, they get one freebie, then it becomes significantly less safe

    On maps like Ormond or Fractured Cowshed are tons of safe pallets. Good luck with just breaking them all.

  • SloppyKnockout SloppyKnockout

    Here's the thing about "playing fair". Killers aren't babysitters. Your job is to kill the survivors. Do you think survivors are going to slow down on gens, in order to have a fair game? Get real.

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