A Movement to Increase Bloodpoint Gains
I feel it is common knowledge in this game that the grind is not only real, but ridiculously long. Most people also know that saving up to 1 million bloodpoints only levels a character to anywhere between level 35-40 (depending on your bloodwebs and how efficient you are with them). Regular survivor games usually give 15,000 and 25,000, and killers probably average 20,000, but these are all circumstantial on performance.
Perhaps the bloodpoints the game rewards you used to work years ago. When there were 5 survivors and like 3 killers. However, these days, with the amount of characters there are in the game and the teachables you need to unlock to actually have fun, the grind seems endless. Perks like BBQ and WGLF seem mandatory to use because otherwise it feels like a waste of time to spend all that time only to get 18,000 BP, which usually won't even level up a character who's already at least 30. You changed Hex: Ruin because so many killers were using it. Now you should realise why so many people use BBQ. Yes, tracking, but the BP is one of the most common reasons people use it. WGLF needs major buffing so it's not a useless perk DURING the trial.
Only after you spend hundreds and hundreds of hours playing the game do you start to have viable perk builds. The teachables that are strong are usually on weak killers (looking at you Bubba and Clown). The Shrine is absolutely garbage most of the time. No, I don't want Beast of Prey or Bloodhound. No, I don't want Poised or Buckle Up.
Something needs to be done in order to allow people to gain an actual interest in this game and want to commit to playing it. It's currently very deterring and quite daunting to realise how much time you need to put in so you can unlock perks. Not to mention how most characters are locked behind a paywall (I paid for it, now I have to put in so much effort to unlock the perks!).
This forum thread recently brought to my attention how utterly ridiculous the BP in Dead by Daylight is (and I would highly recommend checking out the math, it really puts it into perspective):
@DelsKibara said:
We all know Dead by Daylight is known for it's Grind. It's what keeps us playing the game, it's what keeps us going through the same loops over and over again and it's why we love to play this game getting as much points as we possibly can for every single match. It's why farm games exists and why (some) people love it when they pop up because it gives them a chance to get a ton of guaranteed bloodpoints for everyone involved in the match.
With that said, I think The Massive Grind is going to become a real issue real soon. Especially with new players who are just joining the game and started playing.
I calculated the amount of Bloodpoints needed to get every single character to Prestige 3, Level 50 with all Perks obtained. Prepare to see some huge numbers.
Since I want to talk about new players specifically, I'll focus on the one thing most new players will most likely do when they first start playing the game. Get as much teachables as they can as soon as possible. Because they want to have fun builds, they want to be able to survive against Killers or Survivors who have (arguably) better perks than them. So let's just assume this New Player wants to grind for every teachable in the game. First they would need to level every Character to Level 40 at a minimum.
It takes a minimum of around 1,250,000 Bloodpoints to get a single character to Level 40. Let's then multiply that with every character that is currently in DBD, there are currently 21 Survivors and 19 Killers. Bringing the number to a total of 40 Characters to level up to Level 40. Which brings the amount of Bloodpoints you need to 50 Million Bloodpoints. If you show this to a new player, they would find this to be incredibly daunting and tedious.
But I hear you asking, "Kibara! Not every one of those characters has perks that are worth to grab!" And you would be right. So let's just remove the characters whose entire perk deck are not in the current meta, very situational or are just not worth to grab in general (Bolded Perks are up for debate on whether or not they are worth getting):
- Ace Visconti (Up the Ante, Open Handed, Ace in the Hole)
- Quentin Smith (Wake Up!, Vigil, Pharmacy)
- Jeff Johansen (Distortion, Aftercare, Breakdown)
- Ash Williams (Mettle of Man, Buckle Up, Flip Flop)
- Steve Harrington (Babysitter, Camaraderie, Second Wind)
- Zarina Kassir (Red Herring, Off the Record, For the People!)
- The Huntress (Beast of Prey, Territorial Imperative, Hex: Huntress Lullaby)
- The Demogorgon (Surge, Mindbreaker, Cruel Limits)
- The Oni (Zanshin Tactics, Blood Echo, Nemesis)
- The Deathslinger (Gearhead, Dead Man's Switch, Hex: Retribution)
And with that, we eliminated 10 (at least in my opinion) characters that you don't need to grind for because their perks are (arguably) not worth to grind for. That still leaves us with 30 characters whose perks are definitely worth grinding for though. Not only do these 30 characters have useful perks, some of them are downright powerful that you would be nuts to not get as soon as possible.
You would be nuts to not go for Dead Hard or BBQ & Chili from the start of your DBD Career, because these perks really REALLY help out a lot in escaping, chasing, detecting or even giving you free Bloodpoints.
Now that we have that sorted out, how much BP do we have to spend now?
37,500,000.
That is STILL A LOT of Bloodpoints. And to any new players, if they saw this number they would find that incredibly discouraging. Because they see the cap is 1 Million Bloodpoints, so they would think 1 Million is a lot of Bloodpoints.
Oho, but we're not yet done with the Grind Train yet, my friends. It gets even more exponentially expensive. It's like playing an Idle Game except you need to always be active to gain cash.
Let's assume those new players become regular players, and they want to fully prestige their characters. They see those bloody outfits and they want their own characters to look like that. Well, if they want to fully Prestige their characters with level 50 on all of them, lets do the math again then, shall we?
To get a Level 1 Character to Level 50, you need roughly around 1,750,000 Bloodpoints. To get A SINGLE CHARACTER to Prestige 3-50, you need to multiply that number 4 times. Meaning the grand total amount, the MINIMUM amount you need to spend on a single character to fully max out their levels is 7,000,000 Bloodpoints.
Yikes! That's already around 1/6th of the amount of Bloodpoints required to gain every teachable that is worth it in the game.
And of course, per our formula, we need to then multiply that number by 40 (assuming they want to prestige every single character in the game to it's max level). After that, we get a grand total of 280,000,000 Bloodpoints to max out every single character is this damn game.
That is a ridiculously large amount of Bloodpoints. I've played for 1.5k Hours in this game and I've only accumulated around 100,000,000 Bloodpoints myself. But hey, you can argue that it needs to be that expensive because Prestiging a character is Optional. You don't have to do it, which is why it's so expensive, it shows you're willing to put more time into the game. And I get that, it is meant to be more of a reward system for loyal players rather than an actual grind you have to overcome.
But what if you want to experiment with Perk Builds? Something that is a part of the game, and arguably, half the fun of Dead by Daylight to some people (myself included).
You would obviously need every single perk in the game to be able to actually experiment with the perks you want to play with. And here is where the massive numbers come in.
It takes roughly around 35 Million Bloodpoints to get every single perk in the game, and that is already close to the minimum we need to get for every single TEACHABLE that is worth to grab from the various characters in DBD. Reduce the number you need for Level 50, and you still need 33,250,000 Bloodpoints. (Keep in mind, I am assuming this character is Prestige 3, which means they already need to spend 5,250,000 Bloodpoints already on a single character.)
Arguably, you can be conservative and say that since every Survivor plays the same. You only need to get it for one Survivor and you'll be able to play with every perk in the game as much as you fancy.
But what if you play Killer?
Every killer plays differently, meaning not every build will work for every single one of them. You may need to mix-and-match separate perks to see what works well for you for that particular killer. So, you might end up grinding Bloodpoints to earn every single perk in the game, for every single Killer in the game if you don't have a single main you always play as.
Meaning, once again, we take the number 38,500,000 Bloodpoints (Assuming they start from Level 1), and we multiply that by 19.... And we get...
731,500,000 Bloodpoints.
And that is the best case scenario, that is assuming the Bloodweb doesn't screw you over by eating up multiple perks at once which has happened to me loads of times when I was maxing out Spirit. That is still a ridiculously huge amount of Bloodpoints, especially for Killers.
Now, if we add up every single Survivor as well, that number skyrockets to...
1,540,000,000 Bloodpoints.
Seeing this number and doing the math makes me think that perks like BBQ and WGLF are sometimes Mandatory because of how ridiculous this grind can be.
This reminds me a lot of PAYDAY 2 prior to them adding the Crime Spree mechanic. You needed to grind hours upon upon of XP to get to Infamy-XXV and you get diminishing returns because doing the best heist in the game for XP over and over again will incur you an XP penalty. It was brutal and unforgiving.
With Crime Spree, yeah the heists became harder but the rewards became much more worth it, it became much more rewarding and the time spent to grind greatly diminished making it easier to grind for Infamy-XXV.
But DBD has nothing like that, With BBQ you'd be lucky if you got 64,000 Bloodpoints in a single match. I just cannot fathom how someone, especially DBD Content Creators, could spend that much hours, that many matches of the same game to max out every character in the game to it's fullest potential. It must be a huge feeling of relief when you finally reach there.
After doing the math, I really hope BHVR takes a look at BP gains, or at least the Bloodweb Mechanic. Because right now DBD is incredibly hostile to new players, and it's driving people away more than it encourages them to stay because of that looming grind over their heads. And I think it would be better for the game, and the playerbase as a whole, if the grind was not this huge.
That's all I have to say regarding the Grind in Dead by Daylight.
Thank you for coming to yet another one of my TED Talks, it is now 6 AM and I have not slept.
The 1.5x bloodrush event recently was amazing. I get that bloodrush events are 'special', but how obvious does it need to be for BHVR to realise that this is closer to what you should be rewarding your players? Things need to be changed in this game to move forward. More bloodpoints. More perks in the Shrine. Up the bloodpoint cap to 2 million. The game has 21 survivors and 19 killers (soon to be 22 and 20 with the new chapter coming soon). There aren't single digits of each role anymore. It's time to start rewarding players with more BP so they can actually PLAY THE GAME. Forcing players to put in hundreds upon hundreds of hours of dedication AND spend money buying DLC characters (cause lets face it, the Shrine will barely ever give you something worthwhile) is insulting and bad design.
I really just wanted to make this post because I would really like people to pressure BHVR to fix this issue. Yes, I know there are lots of other things in the game that need to fixed. But I feel like this is a core issue to the game that has been around for a long time; ever since there has been a decently sized roster of characters and perks. It wouldn't even be difficult to implement. Just do it like a bloodrush event. Or, double the amount of BP you get in-game (for actions you do; healing, unhooking, sacrificing, using your power, etc) and double the 32,000 cap.
Please, BHVR. This game is fun and addicting (for me anyway). But I am VERY unmotivated to play because I have to use the same characters and perks over and over again just to unlock a few more perks on ONE character. Not to mention I have to grind survivor and killer SEPARATELY.
I think 99% of your player-base would love and appreciate more bloodpoints. This isn't even the only way to fix the grind. Remove tiered perks. Do something. The newer players, like myself, who do not have nearly enough perks unlocked, are not having fun and are struggling to remain interested in DBD. Please do something?
Comments
Hey, thanks for mentioning my thread!
Glad to see someone took the time to read it and put together their thoughts in another thread.
Something needs to give for sure. I still think the best znswer is removung tge tiered perks and implementing an addon/item buy back. But more bps would work too
I would love to see an increase. I'm tired of using BBQ and chili for grinding BP to get through the bloodwebs to have a chance of the perk I'm looking for. 1.5x or some way to not have it keep giving me relentless six webs in a row.
No worries. I really liked that thread cause while I was bothered by the grind, I didn't realise why until I read it. Very informative 😀
I also like that idea. Not sure what would work better, more BPs or just removing the tiers, but I'll take either at this point.
It was a great thread. Needs more up votes.
I thought about this last night and just wanted to mention for anyone else going through this, if you get all the teachables then you can use the shrine of secrets for an extra 650,000. Cost 8000 iri shards but it helps
It's funny how more and more threads about the grind pop up yet I've never seen a dev give their opinion. This being said, I still have to thank the devs! The guaranteed 2 perks pepper bloodweb and archives are a MASSIVE help, so i must congratulate them for those changes. I have several ideas on things that could help with the grind, but the biggest one is.... Make the 1.5x bloodhubt we had permenant. It wasn't a colossal increase of points awarded per match, but it was enough to feel right.
And why not one à 2x bloodhunt every first Sunday of the month?
Yes! I've seen plenty of these kinds of threads, but I really just want something official from someone from BHVR. It isn't hard to just tell your community what you think about a really common topic, and whether or not you will do something about it.
I 100% agree decreasing the grind is needed because it can be ridiculous. However I’m not sure simply increasing BP gain is the answer. The biggest part of the BP grind is getting perks. So instead I would heavily increase the occurrence of perks in the bloodweb.
These are the changes I would make:
Teachables at:
25-30-35
Perks at:
1-10: 1 perk
11-20: 2 Perks
20-30: 3 perks; Entity takes 1
30-40: 4 perks; Entity takes 2
40-50: 5 Perks; Entity takes 2
50+: 6 Perks Entity takes 3
Shrine:
8 Perks
The problem with simply making a BP gain increase is that it would inflate the rest of the bloodpoint economy. There would be a huge increase in MORI’s, OP items and OP add ons. You would have Huntress’ with Iri head and Ebonies and Spirit’s with Mother Daughter-Amulet combo with Ebonies every game. Meanwhile survivors would be running why syringes and maxed out flashlights every game. Most brown add ons would see 0 play time. It would inflate the market. So if they were to add BP gain increase they would need to also make OP add ons, items and offerings a lot rarer. At Lv50 there’s an ebony like every 3 bloodwebs.
I don’t mind where the bloodpoints are that much, people say survivor bp is low but it’s fine considering bp is split between four people doing objectives or altruistic actions where killer does everything to receive his bp. But if you think now is bad you should go to 2016 when one lvl 50 web was about 1 mil points
Very true. I think bloodwebs need reworking, or how you attain perks need changing. I saw some suggestion of separate BP for killer and survivor. Meaning; you earn the same BP every match, but the 20,000 you get from 1 killer game goes towards your killer BP and your survivor BP. Seemed interesting in that you don't earn more BP, it just allows you level both sides. Plus I feel like that wouldn't inflate the BP economy.
Yeah but in 2016 there less than 10 characters on either side. It made more sense to have expensive bloodwebs at Level 50. Now people have 40 characters to level and get teachables. It no longer makes sense.
Honestly? I'd rather go with the BP Increase + Actually making Ultra Rare add-ons.. You know, rare.
Because right now they're too common for them to be called "Ultra Rare". I see BPS much less than I see UR add-ons.
How would untiered perks work?
They'd have to be stuck at a certain point. For example with each tier is an increase in something about the perk. What stage would they be set to permanently? Tier 1 or Tier 3? Also perks would probably need to be more rare. We'd only need to get the perk once for it to be strong.
Tier 3 would just become the default. Nothing else needs to change
Facts. When the 50% sale was up, I bought like 4 killers to get their perks and put them on the killers I want. Unlocking teachables and then putting them on your desired killer is an ever bigger grind because now you have to spend unlimited BP to get lucky and get those perks to level 3
If they remove tiers then there would be no point in ranking up your character to lvl50 because you would get all the perks before you even reach level 30
Items and addons, and to say you did
I think we should remove perk tiers and have the tier 3 version be the default. That would significantly cut down on the grind. You'd have all perks in the game for a character shortly after reaching level 50.
Nah, it takes longer than 30 levels. You would probably get all of them at level 50 or a bit after. There's way too many perks in the game to get them before level 30.
That would depend on how many teachables you got
I personally dont like to bring items to the game even though i have hundreds of them but rather plunder during a match. I have dont really see red ranks survivors bring items that often either
There are 77 survivor perks and 69 killer perks. As much as I'd like a grind reduction, that would cut it too much though, especially since at lv50 you get to pick two perks per bloodweb.
You can expect 100% an answer like:
"We have acknowledged that and we are looking into it".
But yes,removing perks tiers or remove the bonus bloodpoints from BBQ and WGLF to make it baseline,though you would still have to work for that bonus,would help tremendously.
One of the biggest problems why you can't recommend DbD to anyone is that ridiculously grind in this game
I don't understand rarity in this game.Why do all my killers have 3 or even 6 times more ebony moris (ultra rare btw) than bps???
Really? I see items all the time
Maybe they could just leave tier 2 and 3, remove 1
i think just remove tier 1 from perks. That would cut the grind by a third.
Yeah ! More BP for everyone!