As a Killer Main, why is Freddy so overdone?
He absolutely needed a rework from his old self, but why did they give so much to him?
Let's have a look:
1) He has a mechanic that puts survivors to sleep without any effort by him. This mechanic can disorientate survivors and allow for Freddy to use his anti-loop tools without even hitting them.
2) He has anti-loop powers that can shut down loops very easily.
3) He has a powerful mobility tool that can allow him to easily pressure survivors.
4) The sleep state can act as a stall mechanic for survivors who need to find others or their correspond table to release them from the dream world.
So he has strong anti-loop, mobility, stall potential and a mechanic that acts as a pseudo-monitor and abuse perk. Why does he have so much? Other killers only have one or two of these powers but Freddy has all three and doesn't work for them as hard.
Comments
If you're failing skill checks, you're halting gen progress and revealing your position. Plus the timer comes back way faster than if you wake up with the clock. It's overall just a really boring and repetitive game loop that you can't really escape.
It would be stupid to sound that build out loud and guide on how to use it right as it may get nerfed because there s little to nothing survivors can do to counter that if killer is hillbilly but if you see me in a game you welcome to see it. Nickname is Slayer.
If i get outplayed in jungle gym i dont m1 survivors if they didnt use exhaustion perks on me cause they most likely to have dead hard and probably resilence to gen rush even faster.
Anyway okay i know that Freddy is good but he has different ways to get an upper hand while Hillbilly has his owns.Both has counters. It doesnt make Freddy stronger.
A few skillcheck fails do not negates gen rush and if im right if you use that strategy against Freddy he s nothing more than m1 killer for some time which is enough for survivors to take an upper hand.
Maybe in coordinated SWF. No way in hell is that working out in solo queue though.
I disagree. Its a common sense to stay awake.
Solo queue and common sense do not mix.
Billy is a really good killer. He can in the game faster than any other killer, all the Billy have to do is run Infectious Freight and slug on a small map. It’s just that Freddy takes very minimal effort to play effectively and he can play just as well as Billy can while having more map pressure and able to shorten loops easier by reverse bloodlusting the pallet over and over again. There’s some loops that Billy cannot curve his chainsaw around and he just has to run it like any other killer.
I do personally believe that Billy, Freddy, and Hag are pretty much on the same level and are pretty interchangeable on a tier list. It’s just down to personal preference on who you think is better.
Freddy has the most going for him with having the most map pressure, being able to reverse bloodlust pallets, and being able to ignore a very meta perk (BT) while taking very minimal effort to play effectively. Billy can end the game quickest and has an instadown but is the most loopable of the three. Hag takes quite a while to set up and takes the most effort to play well, but she can snowball very well, camp very well, and is the least loopable of all the three. You see how they all have different strengths?
True 😂
Well I can't provide examples of a better Freddy build if you won't give out the build. I highly doubt it is as strong as you say it is, just because there are very few builds that would even match that and with Billy being an OG killer someone somewhere would have showed it off in a YT video or on stream already.
But I'll give it a whack anyway. Freddy with BBQ, Pop, Sloppy, Thana, Swing Chains, and Jump Rope. This build is ABSOLUTELY devastating. Like completely and utterly shuts down any progress survivors will have. I personally avoid using Sloppy when I can because Sloppy causes serious frame drops on Xbox (for survivors and I have feels for them being a survivor main), but if I wanted to be completely dominating this is the build I would use. I doubt Billy has anything that can compare. There are almost no counter play options here either. We'll Make It, Botany, Resil, medkits, toolboxes, all get overpowered by the massive debuffs from Thana, Sloppy, and Swing Chains/Jump Rope. Billy's only hope to compete with something like this is some kind of slug rush snowball build, but whatever that entails there would be hard counter options (healing buffs, aura reads, SWF in general, stealth perks, etc). Any even if such a build was as effective as this Freddy build, you won't rank up or gain BP from it, so it's still not going to be as good. Freddy can run this build and play super fair, easily walking out with a perfect 32k and 4 iri emblems. Billy will be lucky to safety pip with 15k BP. That means that whatever build you have for Billy is less sustainable in long term. I could reinvest my 64k and renew a blood web each game, and then some, replenishing my add-ons in the process. It would take you at least twice as many games, more like 3 times as many, to be able to replenish your add-ons.
"Anyway okay i know that Freddy is good but he has different ways to get an upper hand while Hillbilly has his owns. It doesnt make Freddy stronger."
It does though. That's what a tier list is. Again, your Billy build and your skill with Billy means you will probably 4k a lot. But if you have a strong build on Freddy and play with as much skill you will have objectively more success. In fact you could be less skilled with Freddy than Billy and still have equal or better results, which suggests Freddy is just a stronger killer. There is no comparison between the two.
As a killer you dont even have to run all loops to win.
Why Freddy is not stronger?
They have different ways to take an upper hand like i said already and both has counters.
Billy has insane map pressure with steer addons which Freddy lacks. Plenty of mindgames. Plenty of builds that works good on him. Thats why Freddy is simply not stronger.
How much of penalty you get with those addons when the game starts?
And how would you counter survivors that keep themselves awake?
Hit a survivor once and it's a 9.7% repair debuff and 27.8% healing debuff to that survivor (this just for one survivor, it would go up for each survivor due to Thana and Swing Chains), and roughly a 6% repair debuff to all other survivors for that 1 survivor injured and asleep.
You don't need to counter survivors that keep themselves awake because any act of waking up is a time sink. Either they lose progress by failing skill checks (and alert you to their position), traverse to the other side of the map to use a clock, or wake up each other (which is only viable once before it becomes a massive waste of time). No matter what they are slowed down.
Not sure what you were planning to come back with but it seems like you never actually tried this build. Try it. It's massively oppressive. If I run this build survivors are lucky to get 2 gens before I get a 4k (with an easy pip and at least 25k points).
"Billy has insane map pressure with steer addons which Freddy lacks. Plenty of mindgames. Plenty of builds that works good on him. Thats why Freddy is simply not stronger."
Freddy has a variety of effective builds too. You say Billy has more map pressure yet Freddy can literally cross 6 tiles in about 2 seconds. Billy moves, at his fastest, moves at 12.42 m/s. To cross 6 tiles (16m x 6 = 96m) would take 7.7 seconds, which is more like 10 seconds when you factor in the time it takes to charge chainsaw. That is 5 times SLOWER than Freddy, so how you can say he has more map pressure doesn't make any sense. Also the map is literally irrelevant to Freddy, where Billy is going to have a harder time on certain maps for sure. Doing dream pallets with SF/Enduring is super effective. Also I don't see "many" effective builds on Billy. You have builds with Pop, builds with SF/Enduring, and slug builds. That's about it. Freddy actually has a lot more options when it comes to build variety.
Again you might be really good with Billy but that doesn't make him a stronger killer than Freddy from an objective point of view. Look at the stats even, Freddy has the highest kill rate at all ranks. That's pretty solid evidence that he is one of the strongest killers in the game. Then look at his game data and you can compare it to another killer, even in terms of just raw numbers Freddy is better. I don't understand how you can argue against this either, it's pretty clear Freddy is stronger than Billy in even possible comparison.
So far it doesnt seem so op to me. How long does it take for survivors to fall asleep automatically?
I agree with this statement, watching hag gameplay and pro-hag players, Hag is basically better than Billy and Freedy, and I would say equal in power with the Spirit.
Look it's pretty obvious you don't play Freddy much if at all, and that you've never tried this build. Try it. You will see how ridiculously strong it is.
And it takes 60 seconds, but that is PASSIVE. Billy's slow down requires him to be ACTIVE and hit survivors with the chainsaw. Right there, objectively, Freddy's slow down mechanic is stronger than Billy's by the sheer nature of how it works. And Freddy can ACTIVELY slow them down as well by hitting them, and if he hits you with all these debuffs at once you are NOT going to be able to heal. It's just too much of a time sink, so he effectively has a one shot on you the rest of the game, unless you want to waste a lot of time healing and waking up.
You better change Sloppy with something else cause your build already gives enough of slowdown that survivors are most likely to refuse to heal. Also they are likely to heal in groups and your sloppy will add only extra 5 seconds to that if im not wrong.
Define better? All those killers are different in taking an upper hand.
You can definitely replace Sloppy with something else, but that just means the build could be even better than currently is. And if survivors group up to heal, they aren't doing gens. Again they are slowed down no matter what they choose to do.
You really should just tell me your Billy build so we can discuss it. Besides the fact that NO ONE is really going to see what you write I seriously doubt it is so strong that it would need a nerf. I guarantee you there are ways to beat the build and you just haven't met a strong enough team to beat it yet.
Billy can run some pretty strong builds. Instant chainsaw and the turning add-ons are some of the strongest add-ons in the game.
This is all from me watching people play this. Billy is probably my least played killer.
Probably should have specified, but I say that Hag is better because the snowball potential that she had, the amount of range she can essentially cover, the massive mindgame potential, and her anti-loop ability.
Billy, in my opinion, has Snowball potential, mobility, and an instadown, which are good, but the mindgame potential, and anti-loop potential a hag has essentially will limit a survivor's options a lot more than Billy's chainsaw.
In the videos I watched, after a survivor activates at trap a pallet or window, its now a mind game similar to spirit, where is the hag going to teleport to the trap or is she going to loop around. That mindgame can essentially make safe pallets really unsafe, and god loops not as viable as before.
I will admit that an addon less Billy is better than an addon less hag, but with add ons, Hag is basically better in all aspects especially when using Mint Rag + Rusty Shackles, or Dried Cicada + Swamp Orchid Necklace, or Mint Rag + Dried Cicada.
Of course there are ways to counter that strat if you familiar with that . But the thing is that there are no downsides to killer when survivors counter that.
The difference being I could message survivors my Freddy build before the game starts and there is little to nothing they can actually do to beat it besides bringing a key and offering the best possible map (which like I said map is irrelevant to Freddy).
Hag wouldnt be so strong on bigger maps while Billy has no a map that debuff him. Really. Lery is nothing if you play drift Billy. And Lery is my favourite map if i play drift Billy . See? They all have their own strength that make one killer even stronger than the next guy because survivors play anti - "specific killer" build.
Also some perks that other killers cant counter while Billy almost negates are :dead hard, for the people, mettle of man.
And he doesnt really have a perk that would work against him. Like urban evasion would work against Hag for example.
You forgot to mention that he makes BT saves next to impossible.
You know why its np for freddy? He's no setup killer and he's 115%. Hag's power gets completely disabled by OoO. She can't chase the OoO either if she don't wanna throw the game. My hag build contains third seal because of that. The only way to make it at least possible to beat an OoO. That's why i would never rate her over Freddy, Spirit and Nurse. She's as good as billy tho.
"Billy isn't as strong as Freddy, you can't argue this."
Of course you can, Billy has better add-ons, mobility outside of indoor maps, snowball, hook defense, slug potential, perk synergy and with chainsaw speed add-ons on an experienced player even better anti loop.
Actually you can use any of them, but the furthest one is highlighted
I have no problem with him being really strong, in fact I really like that. I just wish he had more skill to him. Nurse, huntress and hag are all strong killers, but you need a lot of skill to play them efficiently. Freddy can be picked up in 30 minutes.
I actually saw a Alarm Clock spawn literally next to survivor after he fall asleep. So I guess they might be bugged.
Going to add that m1 killers cant do anything against survivors taking hits for each other prolonging the chase.
What your saying is true, but overall, a hag with add ons pretty much outperforms billy.
Also yeah urban evasion counters the traps, but Mint Rag essentially negates that counter
"Outperforms hillbilly".
No. Because with the same logic you could say that hag ourperforms Nurse Spirit or Huntress. Thats not true. They all have different powers and counters. All those killers are viable and saying that one is stronger than another is stupid.