[NoED] Why Do People Think Gens Is The Killers Objective?
I've had this argument with several people before. But it just urks me because I see it all the time.
People claim that NoED rewards "bad plays" by the Killer because he fails to keep up with his objective of defending gens.
Except there's one small problem; that isn't the Killer's main objective. It's just his main obstacle.
The Killer's main objective is to hook and sacrifice Survivors. It rewards him the most points next to chases. Gens? They give you some pity points for kicking a Gen. No points for interrupting gen progress. No points for perks that reduce gen progress. In fact they rob you of your points sometimes.
The generators are an obstacle to the Killer's main objective, which the Killer has to keep in mind and address. Much like pallets, sabotaging, and so on. But that does not make it his primary objective. It doesn't matter if the survivor gets zero gens or all gens or if they are meters away from the exit; if the Killer sacrifices them, it's a win for him.
So why then, do people keep arguing that NoED rewards playing badly?
It's a perk that is only activated in the Late Game. You invest in a perk slot for a Late Game Perk (A hex perk at that!) which can be deactivated by survivors passively cleansing Dull Totems. The payoff is punishing that and getting a powerful perk that you premptively picked.
I don't understand this mentality. Late Game perks always reward the Killer for leaving himself vulnerable in the Early Game... Playing in the Late Game. Fire Up is a Late Game perk.
It's like these people have no concept of Early, Mid, or Late Game.
Comments
My name is a meme.
Well I would like to see where people said that "he fails to keep up with his objective of defending gens". I never saw anyone saying something like that on the forums, and never in any game. The other thing is, that NOED indeed rewards bad play. Cause Gens are the time limit for killers, if theyre all done, its nearly game over. Additionally, you have to do exactly nothing as killer to get a game changer in return. There is a perk called Devour Hope. Thats exactly the same perk in a fair way, cause there is an input needed to gain an overwhelming boost. For NOED nothing like this exists, and its not the survivors objective to cleanse totems in order to escape, also there is no indicator on how many totems are cleansed, which doesnt guarantee that all totems are cleansed.
That "lore" is just a cop-out for BHVR's ######### pip system
It's almost like as if the Killers job is to kill, and the Survivors job is to survive.
Everything else is just a mechanic that works around that.
I could rant about how the whole concept of this game is flawed, but thats not the point.
You just cant 1 hook everyone because its not fun for both sides. Its kind of like surviviors using DS to prevent tunneling force killer to tunnel to "eat DS early". Or how camping killers force surviviors to bring toolboxes, BT and to genrush.
Some tactics need to be discouraged by THE GAME ITSELF, otherwise the whole balance and the idea of this game will fall apart.
And what about it? Does it change anything for this discussion? No? Then why even bring it up?
what many dont understand is, that NOED does not reward bad plays, but actually punish bad plays.
had they been doing totems properly, there wouldnt be any NOED. the killer has no control over weather this perk activates or not, its 100% survivor reliant to ever activate.
so saying NOED would reward the killer for failing literally just ignores the fact that its the survivors fault they ever got hit by the perk and the killer has no control over it.
IF NOED was to reward bad gameplay, it would acivate no matter what without relying on a totem still standing.
Ever heard of NOED camping?
You literally cant genrush and cleanse NOED before the killer camps the guy.
And camping is not a good play, is it?
The point is that the perk is COMPLETELY survivior reliant. So no matter how bad the killer plays, it will not change the fact that NOED will activate if there is at least 1 totem remaining. Compare it with Devoir Hope and see of its fair or not
You forgot about totems. Just cleansing NOED is more than 80 seconds. Not to mention finding them. So in the end NOED camper will always have time to catch at least 1 more survivior, so its a guaranteed 2k.
I did more detailed math above
the fact that it even got to the NOED camp scenario is based on the survivors incapability of cleansing 5 dull totems though.
ive just had a guy facecamping with NOED. he lost 2 gens while trying to down the dude, 2 more while facecamping and the last one wasnt too hard to get due to the gens being spread out. we also did all 5 totems during the facecamp and before, so he got no NOED going.
ended up being a 3 man escape - and it really wasnt a hard task (was a Doc btw on the Rancid Abattoir).
also camping can be a good play, depending on the situation.
if i know there are multiple survivors around not working on gens, i will stay close to the hooked guy and waste their time.
if the survivors however arent completely braindead and just do gens, camping is a very bad strategy, as you will lose all your map pressure and multiple gens in the process.
also compared to Debour Hope, yes this perk is very fair. they both work very differently after all, as one activates midgame and therefore is lit from the start, forcing survivors to search one specific totem as quickly as possible while the other one activates very late into the trial and therefore forces survivors to locate and destroy all potential totems before they reach that stage of the trial or search for the actual totem once the stage is reached.
ive had multiple NOED killers in the last couple of days and i can tell you: majority of them eigther didnt ever get NOED to activate or i destroyed it after they got 1 down with it.
the only time i could somewhat understand NOED complaints was when i looped the killer for 3 gens straight and then got slapped with NOED in the end, as ive had no chance to search for the Dull Totems during the match and my team didnt do them. yet again, that wasnt the perk rewarding the killer for playing badly, that was the perk punishing me for my teams incapability of cleansing totems (which isnt necessarily fair, but hey - we're a team after all)
You basically just got lucky that the last totem/gen was not right next to the hook he was camping. Also the map was the cOrN, so the first chase and the one at the end were longer than normal.
Devour has only one totem and its ok, but it also requires TOKENS. NOED doesnt require any tokens at all. You cant camp and get Devour mid game just because surviviors didnt cleanse. Thats the difference I dont like.
Well of course NOED gets destroyed, all Hex perks end up like that most of the time. But that doesnt change the fact that NOED has the strongest cleansing protestion BUT ALSO doesnt require any effort from the killer to activate.
IMO, you should be able to use NOED only on surviviors you have hooked before it activated. This would solve camping problem but wouldnt affect the perk too much.
Because tit for tat. You can't complain about a killer sided second chance perk, yet ignore the multitude of the same on the other side.
The fact that survivors complain about NOED, when the very perk itself is the the hands of the survivors, shows how 'bad' said survivors are. It's the very reason why I think adding additional objectives for survivors to complete to ease gen times will cause a firestorm among the survivor playerbase. The one perk that gives that feel, and they can't even deal with it.
Don't want to deal with NOED? Cleanse totems. Don't cleanse totems? Find the lit at the endgame. Don't do that? Get punished. Honestly, I'll never understand players complaining about a perk they themselves dictate if it comes into play or not.
This isnt a thread "how to fix the game", its a thread about NOED. I think DS and NOED changes should be done together, because these perks are basically the same.
If someone uses the argument "but the other side has the same" every time, then neither side will ever get changed
You do not need to cleanse totems here. Even if the Killer runs NOED he will need to leave the hook in order to get a 3rd down. At which point he isn't camping and you could get an unhook.
3rd down maybe, I was talking about guaranteed 2k. You cant get an unhook against camper when you are all exposed.
And 2k for doing nothing is a big deal imo. Thats better than Nurse's killrate lmao. Not to mention that camper may black pip.
NOED is a creative way to tell the other players your bad at the game.
2k is if there are no factors working against the Killer.
Amazing chases, no kindred, no SWF, no patrol time.
It's not that he's guaranteed a 2k. But that he's guaranteed to not get MORE than a 2k if the Survivors play smartish.