Slowing Gens is not the best Gen rush solution
For a bit of context I recommend reading this thread:
@NuclearBurrito said:
Don't like being gen rushed? Want to get survivors off those pesky generators? Win chases quickly but still get bronze or lower gate keeper? Here is how you maximize pressure on gens!
First off a definition. There are many ways we could define Gen pressure but this is the definition I am going with:
- Gen Pressure = The factors that force Survivors to not repair Generators.
An important thing to note here is that:
A - Survivors can be off generators for reasons besides gen pressure. For example disarming Trapper traps is usually not an example of gen pressure (although sometimes it can be), same goes for other optional tasks like Sabotaging hooks and opening chests. For our purposes we will assume Survivors are reasonably altruistic however and will stop doing gens if there is a big enough threat they need to deal with.
B - You can stall the game with means besides gen pressure. For example Dying Light doesn't increase your gen pressure but stalls the game, same deal with regression and perks related to it.
Gen pressure is a subcategory of stall and is by far the most effective method of stalling the game.
Gen pressure can be quantified in terms of the number of Survivors not doing gens on average as a result of the preformed action. This will be referred to as GPR short for Gen Pressure Rating for the rest of this thread. At the start of the game your GPR is always 0.
Basics:
The easiest way to get gen pressure is to chase a survivor. While you are chasing a survivor that survivor cannot do objectives meaning it has a GPR of 1.
Sometimes you can get lucky and find multiple survivors at once. Until they split up none of them can do gens giving you an even higher GPR, however they usually split up quickly. The idea behind juggling is that you can repeatedly switch between chasing multiple survivors in order to pressure all of them, however unless they group up this is impractical without additional factors and thus shouldn't be done at the start of the game unless your Power/Build has some synergy with the strategy.
The absolute best form of Gen Pressure however is a downed/hooked survivor. For the purposes of GPR a downed and a Hooked survivor are each identical to each other. Having a hooked survivor means
A: That survivor cannot do generators
and
B: Another survivor has to leave gens in order to save them
This means it has a GPR of 2 AND it doesn't require you to actively do anything once they are Hooked/Slugged, meaning you can chase a survivor while this is happening for a total GPR of 3! This is why snowballing is so important. If you can keep this amount of pressure going throughout the game then you should have plenty of time to get enough downs in order to win.
Note: If you camp then the survivors likely won't go for the save, thus leaving you with a GPR of 1 instead of 2 or 3.
This is also why the early game is so important. Once you get a hook Survivors are working on gens at 1/4th their normal speed. Meaning up until that point the Generators go incredibly quick unless you have Ruin.
The 3rd basic way to gen gen pressure is Killing a survivor. This gives a permanent GPR +1 for the rest of the game. If you Kill a survivor and Hook another then you can easily get the max GPR of 4 thus stalling the game indefinitely so long as you can keep someone on the Hook.
This also shows the ups and downs of tunneling. In the long run a dead survivor is the best form of pressure you can have. However in the short term a Hooked survivor is worth twice as much pressure as a dead one since another survivor needs to go for the save. Generally the long term pressure is better but it's still worth keeping in mind when prioritizing your targets.
Situational Pressure effects:
Injuring a Survivor does not necessarily force them off of gens per say. However as more and more survivors are injured things become more and more risky thus making survivors want to heal anyways. The existence of the no heal meta means a few people being injured isn't a big deal. But if everyone is injured you risk everyone being slugged.
Thus injuring survivors has an estimated GPR of 0.25 per injured survivor unless you are the Plague.
Also some Killers can get pressure from their power. For example:
Legion's DW effect
Pig's RBT
and
Doctors Madness tier 3
All of these have a GPR of 1 per survivor effected and of these Legion has the most reliable form of it but also the fastest to remove.
Something harder to quantify is where you block off specific Generators rather than stopping a survivor from doing ANY generator. For example Corrupt intervention blocks 3 gens for 120 seconds. And both Trapper and Freddy can block off a Generator with a few traps.
In the event that the survivor needs to do the blocked generator that survivor is pressured for the time it takes to disarm the trap in one way or another. Until they do gen progress can be completely blocked by trapping multiple generators this way and guarding the rest yourself. This is the basis behind the 3 gen strategy.
Be careful when doing this. It won't last forever and should only be used to recover and relying on it is doomed to fail if you aren't also getting Hooks at the same time.
The final way to get GPR is totems. Ruin is annoying but good survivors will work through it until they happen to run into it. NOED is unknown until it's too late and thus wouldn't qualify for gen pressure either. Most other totems are too weak to force them off gens as well. However, Devour Hope once stacked will force survivors to cleanse it or else they will die to Mori's as well as your increased speed after hooks (I know people like to ignore the speed but even just 10 seconds of haste is very good for snowballing). Thus Devour Hope with 3 tokens is worth a GPR of 4.
In general, your goal as a Killer should be to reach a GPR of 4. Either by getting a Kill + a hook or though a combination of a lot of injured survivors, your power and a slug or 2. Once you get that you need to maintain it as long as possible.
This all may sound very obvious, but the shift in mindset from thinking in terms of #ofhooks to win to #ofsurvivors off gens is a big one. You can't brute force Gen Rush. You have to stop them from doing it in the first place. Low tier Killers are low tier because by the time they get those first 1 or 2 hooks there are already gens popping. It's all about getting that first hook and then keeping something going.
TLDR: Pressure is only generated by:
A: Chasing a Survivor (which pressures 1 Survivor)
B: Slugging/Hooking a Survivor (Which pressures 2 Survivors)
C: Killing a Survivor (Which pressures 1 Survivor but forever)
Gen Pressure is not the same as Map Pressure nor is it Gen stalling in general.
In any case, if you look at games where the Killer is gen rushed there is generally a distinct pattern:
The time until the first chase is generally fairly large. Up to 40 seconds before finding someone. And when it isn't there are stretches of time where the Killer has to patrol but simply can't reach the gens in time.
Based on this I feel lowering patrol times would be a significantly better method of stopping gen rush than slowing down gens themselves. Possibly just by shrinking a lot of the maps.
A few pros of this:
* Doesn't mean increasing the M1 simulator aspect of the game
* Further enabling an active solution encourages skill based gameplay more than a passive failsafe
* Relatively easy to implement (just shrink maps so they can be circled fairly quickly)
* Isn't mutually exclusive with other change ideas.
Comments
You always gave really good ideas,and this one would be brilliant imo.You gave explanations aswell really good idea :F
every map should be coal tower sized i genuinely believe it's the best map besides the main building sometimes
That would be the perfect size probably.it depends which window spawns if the one besides stairs spawn then ur gonna have a rough time if survivors just abuse it :/
I agree, this would solve that many issues
Just to clarify, assuming a God loop or BNPs aren't involved if you are being looped for several gens inspite of short patrol times then that's on you.
A chase shouldn't last more than 30 seconds, at while 30 seconds may not be winning per say, it's at least enough to slow the game down such that it's not a 3 minute game or whatever
tbh i agree but then a lot of maps would just be reskins and thats kinda boring? I like the way maps are different shapes n stuff
Yes maps are the problem. Who doesn't know this by now?
The fact that maps like Crotus Prenn exist show that this game has a LONG way to go. I mentioned this somehwere else, but the devs should rework maps with each Tome release. Nearly every map variant in the game has issues, and this would be the best way to fairly address them all in a relatively finely manner. Macmillan, autohaven, Coldwind, Crotus Prenn, the swamps and haddonfield are all painful as killer 80% of the time (some map variants like coal tower and wreckers yard are decently balanced).
The maps being a problem is nothing new. Proposing map changes as a solution to gen rush as opposed to looping is new. As is not having slower gens as a solution to gen rush.
Really the only thing needed to be changed on gens is the time it takes for a killer to break it. Either the survivors need to have equal time to restart it or a killer just barely needs to tap it. In a game of micromanaging time this is a big issue.
Being able to do this mid chase is a huge issue.
Coal Tower is my fav map for both sides
But tbh I think every map should be father's campbell size.
Agree. I mainly play survivor and countless times I tap the gen mid chase to stop regression. Killer have no choice but to kick it again instead of chase me right away because the gen is 90% completed and pull away from the killer just like that.
Another idea I have is get rid of the gen kicking animation and killer can M1 the gen to make it regress. Killer can make use of the lunge range to kick gen and make it faster and easier, I rarely play killer and it happened that I always a hair too far away from gen to start the kick animation and I don't understand why you have to hold spacebar all the way through the kick animation but not when you kick pallet (I know I have to git gud). If there is survivor on the gen, auto-aim always prioritied the survivor, although it open up the possibility of auto-aim screwup and hit the gen anyway.
I think the gen kicking animations should just be used for stuff like pop and then m1 for regular regression.
Please, no M1 for gen regress. I can already see me getting looped around a gen not being able to hit the survivor because of messed up hitboxes.