tensu950
tensu950
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- tensu950
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I think there are two large reasons for this.
1) killers know it annoys the ######### out of survivors so it's a way to get back at things like flashlight clicking and tea bagging.
2) killers are just running what they are used to running. The perks were not shaken up a massive amount on the killer side it's not like there were any new perks or massive perk rework that went "Oh how can we mess with this" all that happened was numbers were adjusted up and down and a few perks had a stipulation put on them like corrupt going away on a down or ruin auto cleansing on kill.
Another reason could just simply be a safety net.
A killer does not have any idea what perks survivors are running or what map they might end up on. I tend to run slow-down perks for this reason. I don't wanna get caught with my pants down and thrown on some massive map where the 4 survivors all spawn in random spots next to a generator and knock three of them out before I down the first person.
The flip side to this is if you do end up on one of the small maps where you can patrol all the gens super easy it makes it next to impossible for survivors to do anything I got into a match on the one corn field map that's a small square pretty much and was able to easily loop between like 5 of the gens the team managed to do one and pretty much didn't end up with any of the others over like 25%.
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Would you be willing to trade gen time for loss of chances? Like dropping gens by X seconds but now survivors die on the 2nd hook not the third.
Or maybe lower gen times but there are also other objectives that need to be also done?
It sucks the gens are boring to do but at speeds, they could be done and still can in some ways just make some killers, builds, or maps next to unplayable unless you only wanted to play super sweat then every survivor would just complain about that.
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Those bonuses needed to be added in the base kit, I agree having them tied to a perk was bad but the play style they encouraged was good.
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@solidhex said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3073371#Comment_3073371
You realize killers do everything faster now, strong survivor perks got butchered and speed boost after hit got nerfed? Also the new perks like OTR favour a holding w playstyle, so there is no chase.
The game was balanced before, the only thing that was wrong was dead hard. Giving the killer infinite time to chase makes it unwinnable against killers who actually know what they're doing. "just learn to loop" or "just heal" is the new "just patrol gens" or "just do bones". Maybe the killer mains who complained before are the ones who need to learn how to loop, not just to run mindlessly behind survivors
Yes killers do everything .3 seconds faster. Look out speed racer I am a god damn rocket ship
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I think the real issue maps and spawn locations. I recently started running lethal pursuer and started to notice it.
There are times on massive maps I will have all the survivors all spawn in different parts of the maps nowhere near one another.
As soon as this happens I just think "well no matter what I do I am about to get instant 3 gen." Cause my only option is to b line it to one of them but by the time I get to them and chase / down them the other three people have all done or just finish their gens. At that point what do you do? You have 1 maybe 2 hooks are 3 gens down and now have to balance chases while also trying to push them off gens.
99% of the time when this does happen I just give up on gens because most of the survivors then get cocky and as long as I can down one person in the end game I can get 1 or 2 kills with them being stupid and just charging in over and over trying to get the heals and unhooks.
However, sometimes I get a massive map and spawn in and see this
Those matches are nowhere near as stressful because I can run up scatter them and chase one person down while the other three are then making their way to new gens. It is honestly getting to the point where after messing with the plague I might perma run corrupt intervention from now on just to stop this from happening.
Here is another example of it happening were the same thing happened to this guy with 3 survivors all spawning on the other side of the map next to a gen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYeDaDe3GkQ&ab_channel=DaddyF1lth
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@beyblaiddyd said:
I think the system change is fantastic and that it is an overall good thing, I'm very much looking forward to all-perking everyone with this new system, but I want to point out that there isn't a need for a sort of either-or thing here.
The thing about the old system is that before, you had a choice. Once you unlocked teachables, you could decide if you wanted to invest in levelling up a specific character to get that perk on them, i.e. if you cared about having that perk on that character. In the new system, that choice is functionally made for you - in order to unlock the teachables, you Must invest to unlock it on everyone.
This is great for me, because it is a grind reduction to get the perks on everyone, which is what I wanted to do anyways. In the long run, it is going to save me a lot of time and a lot of bloodpoints.
But there are people who Don't care about that and they don't deserve to be shafted for no reason either! However you slice it, people playing the exact same way they always have and only caring about getting teachables on one character now have to spend 500k more bloodpoints per new character to do so.
This isn't some apocalyptic flaw or a condemnation of the whole system. Because all they have to do is reduce the prestige cap to 40 instead of 50 and the cost will be completely identical for that group to the old system.
It is not antithetical to the point of the new system to point this out, it's just pointing out a flaw in their design decisions. The way it is currently laid out, it effectively punishes people who Aren't interested in all-perking everyone. Both can coexist. Leveling can be fun, more engaging, and less grindy for completionists without throwing out concern for people who Aren't completionists.
The only issue I see with bumping down the max level would be they would need to bump up the rate purple and iri addons pop up in the earlier levels and lower the number of nodes that spawn or players would be even more screwed than they are going to be with the forced prestige on farming them.
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@Omputin said:
I guess their silence makes it pretty clear that this wasn't just a misunderstanding but a deliberate move. It's just sad that a p2p game has to keep up such an artificial grind which resembles more the likes of a f2p live service game than a paid one.
but the weird thing about this is them making the game super grindy helps no one, it would be one thing if they sold like BP packs or boosters because then you could go "well they don't wanna lower the grind cause instead of fixing the issue they wanna sell a solution" the thing most games do. However, the only money they make is on the license stuff and some cosmetics since everything else is possible to buy by just playing the game.
Them making and leaving the game super grindy isn't going to keep people hooked its just gonna turn people off aside from the people who just really really enjoy the game and those people are going to play regardless of the grind or not and they are also adding in a new grind with p4-p100 now for those types of people meaning it all makes even less sense now.
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@Canas said:
I wonder when they/Peanits or anyone else will finally respond to the reworked statsheet. Still no official word from them.
I dont feel like this is happening anytime soon. With the amount of post up surely they know about it so they might just be working on something and not wanting to say anything till they figure it out there are plenty of post with ideas and suggestions however even some form of acknowledgment would be nice.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3050185#Comment_3050185
Maybe this is a difference in definition but I do not consider literally every aspect of a game to be part of that game's "core mechanics". Perks, in general, are core mechanics, but specific perks are not, and no player has to farm for days to get all the perks available before they can play the game, that's a very silly premise for an argument. If you go into a trial with four generic perks, you are going to experience all of the game's core mechanics, because anything that requires grinding for isn't a core mechanic, it's a progression of the core mechanics.
As for your second point, yes, I understand that was your point. I'm reminding you that the overall grind was reduced, for almost all players. It was reduced moderately for the average player, a lot for veteran players, and yes, a noticeable amount for new players as well. New players aren't going to be gunning for every perk right off the bat, and getting the guarantee of unlocking the perks they want to toy with instead of pouring bloodpoints into a character to then get the chance to unlock that perk an unknown number of bloodwebs down the line is an improvement. They're new, so they won't care as much about getting a huge number of perks all at tier 3, they'll be playing with what they have available, and what they have available has been steadily increasing over the past year and a bit.
As for your last example, honestly, while I wouldn't start ranting and raving, I would consider that a questionable choice. A little bit of grind is good, it gives people something concrete to work towards, so I don't know that it'd be a good idea to just remove the grind entirely. Still, as I've said above, I'm still in favour of giving players more BP/making their BP more valuable by reducing node costs, I just don't think that's required for this to be considered a grind reduction.
Again though you cant use your preference as what a new player would want.
If you want an example I am a new player I started playing right around the 6th-anniversary event.
would I enjoy having every perk to use and play with different build variations? Yes I very much would so.
Does knowing I need to grind for 300+ hours put a damper on my fun cause I'm dumping millions of BP into killers and things I do not like and have no intention of playing make things far more annoying then they need to be in the game. Yes very much so.
And yes I know there are probably new players out there who would give two shits about whats a god perk or not and just enjoy running around doing random things and good for them. hows does massively boosting the BP gain or lowering the BP cost across the board harm either of these players?
Does the current change harm players? yes, yes it does. Is it a massive blow that will add thousands of hours to their playtime? no not at all considering they would need to buy bubba dn get him up to 40 then get t3 bbq on the main killer they wanna play before they even seen the benefit. however after that yes this is a large blow to a new player. The grind in this game in general is a large blow to new players.
lets even say by your own logic. Someone new start playing they go online they look up a beginners guide. "Well, I hear this nurse killer is the best I am gonna try her out."
they go on the Googles type in dead by daylight builds to get a website that pops up. They search beginner builds and see something like this.
Dead by daylight builds, find everything you need to know about builds. Randomize your builds with luck.Ok. so lets see I want this perk, that perk and that perk. they need 3 other killers perk and a random global perk.
In order to play this build, this player will need. and I know you said you are bad at math so I will type it all out.
If we take the best-case scenario.
a player earns 30k BP every match at 1,600,000ish BP to p1 (we are saying the person is being as stingy as possible to lvl and not going for the good stuff)
Let us say their matches are 10 min each and they have 0 q time and 0 load times.
we are giving the game every advantage here. obviously, you won't get 30k each match, your matches might be far longer than 10 min and you will have a q time but we are playing really nice this is also a new player so they don't have stacks of offerings or any events or anything going on when they start.
1,600,000 / 30,000 = about 54 matches they need to play to p1 each killer.
54*10=533 min of game time
533/60=8.8 hours per killer
So in order to try out this build, this player will need to play the game for 36 hours and that's just to earn t1 of all the perks they then need to decide do I do this another 2 times adding another 54 hours to that (They p3 the 3 killers but only need to p1 nurse) so ((9x9)+9)=90. so with the new system, this player would have to play the game for 90 hours just to try this build-out.
Now I am sure you are thinking "But tensu this guy can use whatever perks he wants while earning those perks." And you are absolutely correct however if he has a terrible time and is getting stomped on in matches do you think the average player is gonna go
"Well Its gonna get better when I unlock these perks and improve myself"
Or are they gonna go
"This game's ######### it's not my fault it's cause I need these good perks, I can't do anything vs these groups of players running all these meta perks I hear about." then rage quit.
Cause I'm gonna fill you in, Even as a new player I have spent enough time on this forum and the steam ones to know even veteran players blame perks over their own mistakes. people just tend to stick with things they have invested time into already so even if they think it is they will deal with it.
A new player who has 10 hours in the game however will be far more likely to go "This game just isn't for me uninstall."
and I have played enough games and with enough people in my 30+ years of online gaming to know there are tons of people out there like that. Again not all but there are some.
I also have enjoyed the game these 2 weeks or so and would love to see it grow more popular. however, if we are being honest if I didn't start during the event where I was earning this much BP a match allowing me to get multiple killers to lvl 40 and unlock their perks
I most likely would of dropped it after I noticed how much I would need to grind to try out various builds myself.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3050153#Comment_3050153
To tackle your points separately:
1: At no point did I say there was no reason to want them. You called them core mechanics, and I was reminding you that they are not core mechanics at all, they are expressly optional. You don't need them to start playing, which was another thing you suggested was necessary. The grind for wanting them got shorter anyway; you have far more control over getting tier 1, and if you're prestiging your main, getting tiers 2 and 3 got much easier.
2: As long as my electricity bill was in fact 75% lower, I wouldn't care where those savings were incurred. That's the actual analogy here; it's like your electricity company saying your bill will be 75% lower and then you pointing to a specific use of your electricity that went up slightly instead of focusing on the actual final number. As I said above, it is the overall grind, for everyone, that was reduced.
So
A) they are a core mechanic to the game. just because you can do things without them does not mean its not a core mechanic to the game. You could do things in a MMO or RPG like lvl up and run things with no equipment on or talent points spent however its hard to argue using those things would make your gameplay far better.
B) my point was you were told you were saving 75% but you ended up spending more and would only save possibly some money if you met very specific conditions. much like a new player is not having their grind reduced at all until they get hundreds of hours put into the game.
I am very confused on why people are so oddly against this stuff or defending it. like, let's be honest here if tomorrow BHVR went
"hey guys we thought about it and we are gonna change the system starting with the next patch if you purchase a killer or survivor all their t3 perks get unlocked across the board. you don't need to level them up or anything like that and leveling/prestige from this point forward will purely be for the add-on, offering, and cosmetic farming. this change is also retroactive so any killers or survivors you own will also be sharing their perks with your roster."
Do you think the community would be up in arms setting fires to buildings yelling how crap of a change this is or why its a terrible choice and quit the game?
Or do you think people would be fine with it and it even helps/encourage new players to try out the game because they can play with all the toys they paid for without grinding for 500 hours.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3050117#Comment_3050117
But it's not a very specific case, it's overall. As in, involving all cases.
Also, I think you're wildly overstating how important having specific perks are. For killer it's a little more justifiable, but for survivor the generic perk pool and one of the base character's teachables are more than enough to be playing the game, those are the core mechanics. You don't need any specific teachables on the survivor side at all, period, and even on the killer end you'd be mostly okay now that Jolt is a general perk.
I'm not saying I'm against more methods of earning BP or having costs slashed, but what we have is still a pretty significant grind reduction.
Ok but just because you don't need or want them does not mean other people won't want them. and if the perks are so meh and not needed why are they locked behind a grind? Why don't you just get them when you buy the character.
I see lots of weird arguments about this stuff that just seems to counter themselves. "I don't use them so why does anyone else need or want them." or "they are crap so don't even bother getting them" what if I wanna play a weird build or have a play style that's not the "Meta" what if I just like trying out and messing with everything to see what I do like. maybe my play style fits a perk better than yours.
again I ask why? Why are they locked behind 300+ hours of gameplay grind?
Also, it is a very specific case again the only people this helps is people that have most the stuff unlocked already. if you are someone who has all the killers at p1 well you now have the p1 perk on all killers but you still need to either farm t2 and t3 or grind every killer to t3 to fully benefit from this perk. ya sure its going to alleviate some of the grinds but its a very small amount and that's the issue.
If you were told by an electric company "Hey switch to us and we will save you 75% on your bill" then you swap to them and get your bill see it even higher than before but there is a laundry list of clauses and conditions that must be met in order to see some form of cost reduction not even the full 75% would you shrug your shoulders and go "Oh well I mean I guess this helps some people out and it could help me out to one day."
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3050084#Comment_3050084
Is it, though?
Considering they're referring to the overall grind, I think the burden of proof is on the people who say that it's inaccurate to show why. All I've really seen are people focusing on specific examples to show how the grind hasn't been lessened, like new players (while wildly misrepresenting what the new player experience is like for some reason) or people who only play one character. Heck, some people even start talking about addons instead of the perk grind.
For the record, I'm no good at numbers and haven't looked into it myself, but considering that (almost) everyone got helped a little bit and the ongoing grind was helped massively, I don't have any real reason to question that specific number.
I dunno about inaccurate I think the biggest issue with it is it being misleading.
It's a 75% reduction in a very specific case, For everyone else, it's non-existent or far less.
When people heard they were removing the BP perks cause they were not needed anymore since they were reducing the grind a lot of people figured they were simply reducing the grind via bumping BP earned baseline by a large amount or even cutting the cost of nodes down in the tree by a large amount.
Either of these things would have gone over far better than what we got, why? Cause these changes benefit literally everyone.
New, old, casual, hardcore. Getting way more BP would not be seen as a bad thing by anyone. What would be seen as a bad thing is being told "hey we understand the grind blows, we get it so what we are gonna do is remove avenues you have to help with this while implementing something that does not really help you at all."
new players get the hardest shaft with this change it does nothing but hinder anyone who is new making the already unbearable grind even worse.
This game requires a player to put in nearly 300 hours just to unlock the ability to earn the base mechanics to play the game.
And this is putting the game heavily in its own favor by doing math involving you earning near max BP and having insanely short match times. an actual new player is going to take far longer.
Think about that name one other game that has its core mechanics locked behind a time wall that is that large? How well do you think things like MMOs and stuff would go over if you had to invest hundreds of hours into it just to unlock the ability to start using the talent tree.
Also what is the wildly misrepresented new player experience?
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3049823#Comment_3049823
I'm not saying it's insignificant
Just that it is not doubling it like people are saying. That it's not that hefty of a blow that people are expecting.
Just an observation that in the grand scheme it didn't do as much as people praised it for
Doesn't really matter anymore, it's gone soon anyway
But it clearly does matter to some people oh wait it matters to a lot of people considering it was one of the most used perks in the game and you can't tell me it was used that much because of just the aura reading on it because there are plenty of other ones.
Of course, people are going to complain when they do something that makes 0 sense and just makes the game feel worse overall. They could of reduced the BP gained per match by 1% and people would still complain because why?
What is the benefit of doing it? Who does it help? What problem does it help solve? is it fixing some balancing issue?
Unless they give a good reason that outweighs the negative to what they are doing people are going to complain and they should and shouldn't just shut up and go oh well its gone soon anyway cause that's the whole point of these PTB's if every change they posted was just set in stone why have them? Why have feedback forums?
The bottom line is its a stupid change that just makes the game worse in every way. Lowering the Bp gained by any amount in a game that already takes hundreds if not thousands of hours of grinding to unlock everything is clearly going to piss people off. Even people who have everything I have talked to are not happy about the change cause it makes the experience for new players worse now.
You know what happens when your game is ######### for new players? They don't play it.
You know what happens when your game stops getting new players? It slowly dies out.
You know who does not want the game to die out and stop getting updates and content? the people who love the game and have invested 8K+ hours into it for 6 years.
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@Somna said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3049714#Comment_3049714
I haven't seen any mention of BP prices changing for the bloodweb items, so I'm curious where the BP cost of items was mentioned to have increased.
The cost was not raised directly however before if say you wanted to just farm add-ons you could leave your character at 50.
At lvl 50 it cost about 50k bp to cycle the web to a new one. so you could keep dumping 50k bp and get a bunch of add-ons and offerings including purple and iri ones.
With the new system, you are forced to prestige so now you hit 50, spend 50k bp to fill the web, 50k bp the prestige then in order to start seeing purple and iri add ons again you need to spend 200-300k bp to get into the higher levels for them to spawn.
So now you might end up needing to spend 200k bp to get a purple addon when before you could spend 50k
So yes the price of the addons did not go up but the cost to see them was raised by a large amount.
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@malloymk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3049748#Comment_3049748
I'm no math wizard but even if you p3'd everyone and left them at no perks and just stopped there it would not be a 75 percent decrease in the grind.
it would reduce the grind for those players because you would not need to cycle blood webs on those p3 characters to buy all the perks. The new system does indeed save BP in those occasions. Much like now when a new killer comes out and you p3 your other 23 killers or whatever it is now all have the t3 perk meaning you don't need to spend tons of BP cycling blood web to get them on all toons.
So yes this new system does "reduce the grind" as I have been saying but only after you are done with the grind, you still need to p3 all your toons in order to gain the full benefit from this.
A new player gets 0 benefits from this new system as you don't start seeing them till you p3 multiple other characters to start spreading around perks so once again until you put 500+ hours into the game this new system is pointless and only makes the grind longer.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3049630#Comment_3049630
See that's where so many people are wrong, BBQ doesn't double your bp. It doubles it in the trail. It does nothing for bp earned outside of that
Let's crunch some numbers
Last tome was 3015k in bloodpoints total over the span of 3 months. So that's an avarage of about 1000k a month
If you do your daillies everyday you have 900k per month at a minimun. there are 60k daillies but let's lowball it
You can earn up to 2 mil from rank rewards. But again let's say your a killer main and struggled a bit and only just made it in red ranks meaning 700k
That's 2.6 milion bp you earned that month that bbq did nothing with
If you avarage 25k bp per game and get 4 stacks every game (which is bs but again for the sake of argument) you would need to play 52 matches with 4 stacks for bbq to make up 25% of the bp you earned
And that's with lowballing the numbers. get iri 1 on both survivor and killer and that number changes to 78 matches per month
Not even counting offerings. every 5 survivor pudding you play or bps anyone plays adds 3 matches you need to play to have BBQ make up 25% of your total bp
And then i haven't even touched gift codes and events. there is a forum post where they asked how many flans people have and it wasen't hard to get into the thousands. More bp bbq does nothing with
You also won't always get 4 stacks. If you say you do you're lying. You're not going to tell me killers needed to be buffed cause the kill rate was to low but everyone still casually got their 4 bbq stacks all the time. Between Swf squads, survivors hiding to escape via hatch or DC's before you can hook you can miss quite a few stacks
Now it's ofcourse still a good chunk of bp bbq gives. But it's nowhere near double your bp that people are saying it does
This would be my other question. if your argument is the BP loss is so insignificant why remove it at all? Sure I see the logic behind removing it from the perk but I feel most people making these posts and arguments are not fighting to have it put on the perk most like that it's being removed.
However, the argument is the mechanic gets backed in baseline and the perks get some other thing added or tuned to make up for the nerf or there is just an overall boost to BP gain.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3049750#Comment_3049750
First of i'm not saying bbq was useless. Just pointing out that you're not going to cut the bloodpoints you earn in half like a lot of people think it's going to be. realistically it's more like 20% which isn't as drastic as people are making it out to be
Second if you're going to use that analogy a more accurate version is that stores will be cheaper but the bonus on overtime will be halved. For people who don't do much overtime it won't change much, and for the people who do it won't change enough to offset the reduction of store prices
but stores are not cheaper, The stores are more expensive now and offer worse items (Forced prestige cost and forced blood web reset result in worse add-on grinding). The only bonus is if you spend a ######### ton of money at the store you get a bonus from it now.
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@malloymk said:
I see a lot of people saying "well it's a big grind reduction for people that have already p3'd everyone. It is not.
I have a spreadsheet and between the 40 + characters I have p3 all perks and the 8 characters I have p3'd and all universal perks (plus plenty of others). I'm already at a 93 percent rate in terms of maxing everyone out anyway.
So wow, they've decreased the grind for me by less than 7 percent. Neat.
In fairness, at least future characters will be pretty much maxed out so that's nice.
well clearly if you have everything unlocked no amount of grind reduction is gonna benefit you. however, it's pretty much impossible to argue who this grind reduction benefits more.
Is it someone who just starts today or someone who already has a bunch of things leveled up and at p3 because as you stated at that point you now have everything unlocked on that new character as soon as they release and only need to worry about leveling the new character to p3 to unlock their perks on everyone else.
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@Akumakaji said:
Hello everyone,
there are so many discussion about the grind reduction going on at the moment, were people are showing off their math skills and how bad things will become under the new system or how players who only main one character get hit hard etc. But to me all this discussions seem to be missing the point of the new system.
All this calculations seem to tackle the problem binary, ie "you got not a single perk unlocked" vs "you got all perks unlocked" and "this used to cost this-and-this-much, now it costs you a whopping this-and-this-much!!11".
But you guys are totally ignoring the middle part, ie the "getting to the end" journey. Under the old system you always had to take the hard choice "do I prestige this character for the bloody cosmetics or do I keep all the 65 perks I got unlocked so far?" and most often it just wasn't worth it. Heck, a lot of characters languished at the P0-Lvl 40 mark just to unlock their teachables.
I remember how I read a guide back in the days, recommending to lvl Claudette up first, as her Self Heal was especially useful to soloQ players and those starting out, but once I got her to lvl 40 I was quite bummed that it only unlocked that perk on everyones bloodweb. I leveled Nancy to lvl 20 and never got it Self Heal and that felt quite unfun.
Now with the new system, yeah, you are still paying a lot of blood points for everything, but you got so much control over the way you want to develop your survivor game. Each time you prestige a character now, you get a meaningful improvement to your survivor/killer roster, with you getting an ever expanding baseline for everyone, letting you actively chose what to improve. The total might be higher, the total might be much less then the 75% grind reduction, how ever you cut it, but it is so much more fun and meaningful to progress any character now, and that is awesome.
Also, don't gloss over the fact that you don't lose anything on prestiging any character now. Before, prestiging was a painful process, only done for the bragging rights, now its just part of leveling up. Yeah, you restart at lvl 1 Bloodwebs, but thats the same with your account level and blood shards resetting, its not cool, but just part of the game. Still, if this system had been there from the start I would have had much more fun leveling up my characters and probably had a plan whom to prestige first etc.
So, don't just look at the complete set, also take the journey along the way into account, leveling up is now (will be soon) much more fun and meaningful then it ever was, and thats a big plus.
Caveat: its still sad that veterans only got the most lazy compensation and thumbs up for their work, but still, I welcome the change wholeheartedly.
I think you are missing the point on what most people are arguing about though.
It now costs more BP to farm add-ons, Will cost more to farm perks (Unless you already have everyone bumped to p3) and it will cost more, in general, to do most things in the game. And the question is why? let me ask you this what are the pros and cons of giving people more BP or lowering the grind by adjusting the cost of nodes in a blood web?
Pros:
Easier for new players to get into the game.
It feels more rewarding in a match even if it does not go your way (Camped, tunneled, go against a swf that destroys you)
Opens up build diversity by allowing you to more easily farm add-ons and perks.
This one is a bit iffy but could open up players to play other roles. Right now I pretty much never play survivor because I need to horde all my BP into my killers as a newer player to unlock things. however, if it was far easier to unlock those things and I didn't feel like I needed to do that I would be more willing to dump BP into a random survivor to mess around with it.
Ontop of I am sure many more things I am not thinking of.
Cons:
The only can I can think of is BHVR is afraid without the grind they will lose player retention meaning players will go "Well I unlocked everything so guess I'm done with this game" However I would argue a large part of that player base would quit well before finishing said grind or even they never-ending prestige update would then counter that since they have 100 levels to grind through to unlock cosmetics and other rewards.
However, if anyone else can think of any real negative impact on the game please by all means feel free to inform me.
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@Patrick1088 said:
BBQ helped with the grind and especially helped during blood events.
32k match
32k because of BBQ
32k because of blood event
169.6k because of 5 flan offerring
This comes to 265.6k BP. 4 matches should put you at 1M BP.
So it helps, but as you said offerings, dailies and events help more.
but you won't always have events and offerings however you can always well you could always have BBQ and chili equipped.
I don't think anyone has ever argued that the mass amount of BP they earned was through BBQ but what advantage to the game does lowering an avenue to earning more bp earn to players? Yes, I know they changed the perks however for newer players they will now take longer to rank up those killers and survivors to get any use out of it.
Now keep in mind I 100% agree its booty cheeks to be tied to a perk cause that would incentivize having to
A) buy a licensed killer or feel you are being nerfed
B) limit your builds cause you felt like you were gimping yourself not using it.
However, as I have stated before a number of times why not just boost the trial BP by 100% flat or make the passive from BBQ or the survivor version baseline (This would help incentivize not tunneling or camping more cause it pushes killers to at least hook everyone once.)
BHVR seems to have some real issues with lessening the grind as much as they claim they want to with this patch. I think it stupid a new player needs to pour nearly 1k hours into the game just to unlock the perks that are a core mechanic to playing the game (And ys that's after the rework to perks to lower the grind time)
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
I smell this thread is either going to the new mega thread or this will be shut down. Looking at the last 3 pages I think this thread will be shut down
id guess shut down also, I know it's a holiday weekend and all but even if it wasn't BHVR really seems to want to avoid any sort of talk on the BP grind subject even in posts they would respond to it would be about other things then ignore any replies asking them to go into more detail on something or plans they might have to address it.
all they would need to do is make a post saying "hey we hear you guys talking about the grind and are looking into solutions to alleviate it for new and old players alike." that would settle most the people down on the matter at least for a while of course if nothing was then done about it for a while it would fire back up. but considering how easy of a fix it is if they really wanted to it shouldn't take more than a patch to settle. if they can easily flip a switch to double BP or more on weekends or events there is no reason they cant do the same thing and just make it permanent
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@c0gnu5 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3044322#Comment_3044322
That still does not take into account things I mentioned before (shrine, resets, incentives). But I get it, it's your party and you will cry if you want to.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3044325#Comment_3044325
Ok, go on count BBQ then.
as a new player, the only games I have not played with BBQ are those where I don't have it unlocked yet and always go for it first when I see it on blood web cause yes it is that good.
it is in reality a 50% grind reduction since it doubles your BP meaning what could be a 10+ hour grind to unlock a characters perks is now 5+
That is the thing many people have made comments on. This grind reduction via the perk sharing rework is excellent but does not really reduce a grind per se. Players still need to grind for 500+ hours to get the full benefit from this buff. once players have everything unlocked then yes this is amazing, you only need to p3 a new killer/survivor every few months to keep everything unlocked on everything.
but as stated for a new player this is a massive nerf as we still need to p3 all of these killers and survivors. now I also agree that having this bonus tied to a perk is stupid and it shouldn't be; it should be baseline and far higher. honestly with the numbers as they are now I don't get why they are not. Why is BHVR so afraid to shell out more BP or lower the BP needed to level up?
would you guys honestly go well this is dumb and I don't want to play anymore if you got a 100k BP average a match? I think if anything it would make things more enjoyable on all fronts. It would unlock perks faster letting people play more builds, make the game easier to get into, and make BP cycling easier to open the roster up allowing you to farm things like addons and offerings
as far as the shrine goes I think it's overpriced, again coming from a new player in the 2 weeks I have been playing I have got around 9k of the shard things and that includes a bunch from the event as daily rewards. it takes like 12k to unlock 1 t3 perk on all toons meaning I could buy 1 perk every month or so unless as you get into the higher levels it starts shelling the shards out at a much higher rate.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/332623/what-would-you-think-of-a-4th-hook-state
I don't know how they would balance that thought being pernament exhausted is prettty big thing as dh and sprint burst basically give free health state so you would only have to go through 2 health state while chasing that survivor. But I would rather see perk which allows you to give one of your own hook state for other survivor kinda like for the people but much bigger effect. It would counter super tunneling and would also encourage killer to go after the one who gave the hook state too.
They would not be able to balance it because no amount of debuffs or anything would be a downside because the other option is you are dead. The only way it would be able to be balanced is if it was something like +1 gen needed to be done per person with the perk and that would be terrible also.
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@Peanits said:
I hate to sneak in again and ruin all your hard work (huge kudos for going through the effort of putting together the spreadsheet!), but there's another big oversight here: Prestiging resets you to level 1, meaning you get the super tiny levels again. The overall bloodpoints required ends up being ~75% lower, not the number of levels. You spend way more BP per level on the old system by repeating the huge level 50 bloodwebs.
Correct me if I am wrong, but with the old system you would spend 50kish BP to reset your lvl 50 web and that would allow you the choice of picking 2 of 4 perks that spawned into it, so every 50kish bp would net you 2 perks. with the new system you have to spend 50k at lvl 50 then another 50k to prestige, then spend a bunch of BP to level up and start seeing multiple perks.
The other nerf to being sent back to "tiny levels" is you need to dump 300kish bp to start seeing purple add on the regular as opposed to the current 50kish to just reset your lvl 50 tree.
I have brought this up a few times in various post and am genuinely interested in why there has never been any sort of BP squish needed to lvl especially for older killers and survivors. with this new system it seems like the perfect time to implement something like p1-p3 has a massive reduction in BP needed then it goes back to normal starting at p4-p100 when it is simply cosmetics you are earning.
This would reduce the "Grind" and help new players get into the game and on their feet testing builds/perks easier to see what they will enjoy.
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@Peanits said:
I hate to sneak in again and ruin all your hard work (huge kudos for going through the effort of putting together the spreadsheet!), but there's another big oversight here: Prestiging resets you to level 1, meaning you get the super tiny levels again. The overall bloodpoints required ends up being ~75% lower, not the number of levels. You spend way more BP per level on the old system by repeating the huge level 50 bloodwebs.
but correct me if I am wrong on the old blood web it was about 50k BP to reset and you would get 2 perks (4 in the web but the entity would eat one each time you picked one) With the new system you will have to spend 50k to fill the lvl 50 web then 50k to prestige, then a bunch more BP to work your way through the lower ranks to start seeing perks.
Again unless I am wrong getting shot back to the "Tiny levels" again hurts more things than it buffs. Fewer perk options popping up along with needing to dump 300k+ BP each prestige in order to start seeing purple add-ons more reliably as opposed to the old 50k you would have to dump to reset your lvl 50 web.