Syntai
Syntai
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@Kalinikta said:
Tried playing nice today:
- Got rolled over by competent players, 2 hooks total, swapped targets and all that. At least they weren't toxic about it and it was Ormond so gens got slammed like mad. My enjoyment of the game nearly non, I had no chance at all.
- Got called a camper and to shut up about them using a purple key to get 2 people out, simply because the moment I had a 3 Generator stack, 1 generator left and all 4 survivors alive, I put the people I hooked smack next to one of the generators that I patrolled and clawed myself back into the game and killed 2 of them. I even had one slugged and one on the hook with like 20 seconds left on her timer and I decided to not just wait there for the death... yet still SHUT UP CAMPER when I dare make a comment about the key (Red rank survivor btw, while I am a now 8 Purple).
- Got tea-bagged at the gates after a 4 escape with full meta, 3 stack SWF survivor team with an end game DS and everything. My enjoyment in the game was pretty much zero.
- Got called a tunneller due to the team literally swarming the hook and me just downing the same person and killing them quickly, sorry but if you hand your team mate on a silver platter without BT or anything I ain't going to say no... yet it was me of course that was the filthy tunneller.
- Met a OoO SWF and got completely slammed and destroyed while I tried to focus on the saviors after hooks and all that.
The fact is that regardless of how you play, if you play nice and win... you get called all the bad things anyway. If you play nice and are losing, nobody cares whether the game was fun for you and they use all the perks, all the tricks and everything. Survivors frankly don't care about the killers enjoyment and frankly after a couple of games... most killers stop caring about that of the survivors. Tunneling and slugging when used at the correct moments in the game, at the correct situations and all that are just winning strategies. Execute the strategy wrong, then you will still lose on all categories, use it well and you are rewarded. Killers are suppose to focus on killing the survivors and they will do what is best for their gameplay.
I keep getting called names, even if I only use the 'toxic' tactics to try and win at the end of the match, 1 generator left or 0, but hell... still a filthy tunneling camping piece of #########. The survivors guide to killer is;
"Chase me around a bit, hook a couple of times so we can save each other and then go stand in the corner near a gen so I get my BP and throw the game"
I had 2 games that were both fun and the end-chat was enjoyable. In the one game I had 2 kills and the other I had 3 and 1 gen left. The first game above was also not bad from the survivors end, but Ormond versus a SWF is just not a good experience (more on the game then the survivors).
Frankly within my first week of owning the game I already learned that to enjoy the game as a killer, you just use anything you need to play your own game. Survivors do the damn same thing without consideration of your enjoyment, so why should we. This is the lesson I learned and I have played the game a grand total of 78.3 hours and counting. Tunneling, slugging, damn even late game face camping are all just tools in your tool box to try and win, have a good time yourself and if it hurts someone's feelings, tough luck. Sure if you are a master at the game, you might be able to play nice and also ensure a good time for yourself, but most killers aren't at that level. Playing 'nice' usually means, throw in the towel and let the 4 man win stupid!
A few days ago I was facing a 3 men SWF + 1 random.
I was playing Myers on Ormond. (Of course they sent me there).
I still managed to woop their behinds but I noticed that for whatever reason the survivors were sabotaging each other.
2 people were allready dead, 1 guy (the random solo Q player) was bleeding out on the ground and the last 1 was hiding somewhere.
I wasn't camping the slug. I was basically running circles arround the border of the map to find the last guy. But for whatever reason he didn't pick the guy up.
Before he bleed out, I started feeling bad for him. So I've picked him up and dropped him couple of times, so he would heal one state.
He even ran to a hook and wanted to give me the kill. But I didn't take it.
Instead I managed to find the other guy, killed him and granted the random Solo-Q player the hatch.
The survivor SWF group didn't take that well.
They said that he didn't deserve it. They wanted to let him die on purpose because he wasn't that good of a player.
They started insulting me and one guy (he wanted to look tough in front of the girl he was playing with) wanted me to tell him my adress so he can come arround and attack me.
Funny, isn't it? You are the killer. You are gifting one guy the hatch and it ends up with the survivors harassing you, even telling you that they'll kill you in real life.
(Of course I am not taking that seriously. But you get the idea.)
...
Btw, this was within red ranks. All of them were rank 1, I was rank 3'ish at this time.
The random solo-q-player that didn't perform well enough for that team was rank 14'ish and just got matched with them.
Even as survivor I've learned to despise most other survivors.
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@FGC_Brute said:
I've been playing a lot, and I mean a lot lately because I need to get everything in the current time thing. And literally, Every. Single. Game. I. Play. The. Killer. Tunnels. I don't even play toxic! I do gens and save people. I don't loop cause I don't know how, I also don't teabag. And yet....KILLERS STILL TUNNEL. The survivors I play with are usually trash so there should be absolutely no need for tunneling and yet Freddie's, Pigs, Michael's, Spirits, literally every single killer in this damn game alllllllllllll tunnel. It's BS. I don't understand.
Well I don't fully believe that statement.
But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and believe you, that 'a lot of killers' are tunneling you.
Why?
-Well firstly: It's smart.
Games are over way too quick. Most killers can't keep up with the current gen speed. 12 hooks within matches that sometimes are over within 5-6 minutes is usually not possible.
Eliminating one survivor quickly ("tunneling") grants the killer more time to breathe, enjoy and win.
Just pick DS + Unbreakable. The combo ist busted and OP. It should help you against tunneling killers and ... just killers in generell, since the combo is like i said: Busted.
-Secondly: It often happens on accident.
Countless times I've gotten the unhook-notification, run back to the hook and find the injured/saved person but not the savior.
Sometimes the injured one is even running straight at me, while his rescuer is nowhere to be found.
I can't just ignore you at this point, especially since the clock is tickin' against me.
-Thirdly, like a lot of people allready mentioned: Most killers are fed up with survivors bs and want to 'pay back'.
Don't get me wrong, survivors are as toxic as killers are.
At the end of the day thery are the same players behind their computers. It's not like only nice people are allowed to play X and only toxic sh1tfaces are allowed to play Y.
But survivors have way more tools to express their toxicness (T-Bagging, Dragging the game out by waiting at the exit gates, Flickering, sandbagging and more) while killers aren't really able to do that.
I mean, Ghostface can t-bag, yes. But what else can you do? Nod at people? Hit them on the hook? Great, you are losing time while doing that and now just lost the game.
Meanwhile survivors can make use of these tools without having the system punishing them.
What else is there a killer can do? Camping? Slugging? Tunneling? By definition this isn't toxic behavior, since you are pushing your objective by using these tools. You might want to camp, slug and tunnel in certain situations, or else you won't win. It's lame, but sometimes it's the only thing you can do.
So there you are, eating up all the toxicness, without being able to 'be toxic back'.
And the fun thing is, as killer you'll face way more toxic behavior than a survivor.
Why? It's simple. It's just a numbers game. If we would say that 1 in 8 DbD players is toxic (no matter what they play) it would mean that as survivor you would face 7 perfectly fine killers, until you encounter 1 toxic killer (Whatever that means).
And even then there is a 75% chance that the killers insults wouldn't be aimed towards you. (Since he could just flame another player out of your team.)
As a killer however, 1 in 8 means that every second game you'll encounter someone trying to ruin your day - and it will allways be aimed against you.
Sometimes killer-players just snap. They get fed up with all the bullsh1t and just play as lame as possible in response ... and this is how you might also get this "I'll do everything to take the fun out of the survivors side, for example by tunneling" behavior.
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@Friquoild said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1637423#Comment_1637423
I do enjoy playing against some strong killer or strong perk build.
I like to play vs Spirit bc you need to change the way you loop killer and try to find some new mind game.
But I can't enjoy a game where the killer is free to tunnel and I can do anything about that, but I played against some good and non tunneler PH and it was super cool to play. But not everyone is like that and I wish every game could be as cool as some game that I had
I mean what do you mean by 'a killer that is free to tunnel'?
Sure, if PH uses his power after you stumbled over his trails of torment, he can play arround DS.
But this doesn't mean that he instantly wins by default.
If that dude decides to keep going for you, even after you've been recently unhooked, he still has to find, hunt and down you first.
Plus you have to walk over his trails for him to be able to play arround DS.
If he doesn't apply any pressure on the map and just goes tunnel-vision on you, he'll probably end up losing the game, because while chasing you from safe window to safe palette to safe loop, gens will pop left and right.
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PH is a strong killer.
He lacks map pressure but is pretty good at 1v1'ing.
But to be honest I wouldn't have nerfed him.
There are killer which are gods at 1v1'ing survivors and they still lose within 5 minutes to gen speed.
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Body Blocking is just fine.
But I agree with the not-leaving aspect.
They should make bloodwarden baseline to all killers.
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I had this issue, too, not a long while ago. But I was playing a 110% killer so I thought that this would be the issue.
The Crotus Prenn loop aswell as the the Groaning Storehouse are extremly killer-unfriendly, boring loops to play.
Most of the time you just have to rely on holding W for 2 minutes or just go for someone else, if you dont run something like Bamboolze or dont got some special killer ability to help you out.
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It's usually the other side arround. That's why we got memes like 'The survivors rulebook' and not killer related stuff.
But yea, there are crybabies on both sides.
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It depends on who you go against.
Sometimes people just troll arround and do a lot of mistakes.
Sometimes you get a good map.
Sometimes you play a really strong killer or bring a mori.
But if survivors are decent and just stick to gens and don't fool arround? Plus you get a really bad map?
You're fked.
And that's without the SWF bs.
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So hear me out.
I allways had this idea I've never shared with anyone.
Killers tend to dodge lobbies whenever they see a special amount of items which they don't agree with.
(Which I get. Going against 4 toolboxes can be frustrating with weaker killers in higher ranks - and as killer these days you don't have to wait for the Q to pop at all.)
But this is also frustrating for survivors.
So survivors kinda cheat on the killer by switching last second, which however is also stupid because the killer can't counter this picking different perks. (Let's just say for the fun of it: Lightborne, Franklins, Overwhelming Presence).
What about adding a big amount of randomness to all these monotone DbD rounds?
Whenever the offerings burn (loading screen) each survivor gets a fortune wheel that spins for each possible item + addon combination there is.
Good items have a low % of being picked.
Bad items have a higher % of being picked.
(Same with their addons)
You could also improve your odds by burning luck offerings and picking luck related perks.
And whatever gets picked ends up as the item you start with.
Thoughts?
"But what about the blood web. Usually you pick your items there, if you dont take them from trials?"
Yea I guess you would have need to rework it a bit, which I am all for. DbD is too much of a grindfest anyways.
"But what if my squad wants to take insta heals/BnPs/Keys to a trial?"
You could still do these shenanigans in a custom game. Go **** yourself trying to ruin some casual baby killers day.
"But killers could still bring moris, right? Biased!"
Those are offerings. Different topic. But yea, I'd also want them reworked.
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Unpopular Opinion:
Spirit is S-Tier, but she's not overpowered.
Still:
"Hey, I'll make fun of a killer but instead of using her alias (Spirit) or atleast her first name that some people know (Rin) I'll go with her family name which is usually known as a map."
LOL.
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It's creative, I'll give you that.
But survivors don't need this.
You can allready counter slugging by equipping one of the meta perks. (Unbreakable).
IF you made it to the endgame and IF the killer found the hatch first, you can allready pick yourself up with this perk, hide next to one gate - wait for him to leave it to check the other one and then open it and leave.
Or bring/find a key and re-open the hatch.
No need to add a new layer of second chances.
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@Breque said:
Like its has some many people that says
Put kindread as a basekit to buff solo queue
And they just say no
And a toten indicator to we at least know how many totens are left and see if one of or random teamates decided to do 1 toten
But no again
And after every one is pissed because only has SWF in their games ( because is IMPOSSIBLE 95% of the time play with random teamates you will always loose)
So what its your sujestion to make solo queue good
Ps - Just dont say nothing because solo queue is so ######### that you know when someone says ow if you dont like you dont play, like i literally just play with SWF and sometimes i want to play but my friends dont so
I want to play solo queue but at the same time dont wanna to become extress
I disagree with your statement, that 'you allways lose with random teammates'.
If I play survivor, I either go alone or sometimes play with one friend. I don't have any problem ranking up and enjoying my games.
The only thing which is clearly fking me up are people who DC/sacrifice themselves on their hooks. (And sadly this happens often).
These things make games unwinable and frustrating.
So I'd suggest some kind of harsher punishments to people who DC regulary and some kind of honor system that rewards people who stay and play till the end.
But regarding your 'put kindred in the basekit' or 'give them a totem counter' is just a direct nerf to killers.
Killers allready don't have enough time to deal with 12 hooks in a game that's sometimes over within 4-6 minutes.
Even people who main killers as their job (Otzdarva, as you mentioned) have to use tunneling-strategies to secure wins against average/good survivor or else they lose to gen speed.
And that's a really talented dude who plays very well - with more than 3,500 hrs played.
We killer mains drive of chaos and confusion and usually win whenever people waste time looking for totems (which allready have been cleansed) or whenever suddenly two people stop doing gens to go for a save, instead of just one. (Stuff that wouldn't happen if you'd had kindred).
If everyone has kindred and a totem counter, they'll know when someone is allready going for an unhook - or if it's worth checking for more totems. This will lead to survivors playing even more optimally - in a current world where most of them can even fck arround and still win.
I think the solution to the balance issue isn't buffing solo players to busted SWF level.
It's bringing down SWF's to a solo survivor level, which is almost impossible to achieve, because you are most likely getting rid of their fun while doing so.
And at the end of the day not every SWF group is a coordinated hell squad, so it ends up fking some casual swf players pretty badly, too.
I'd rather have a special reward as killer, whenever I slay SWF groups. This alone would be a nice bandage fix.
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I wanna be honest with you guys.
Even though I allways wanted Pyramid Head (And they ended up adding them) for me personally I doesn't care which killer they add next.
Because at the end of the day it's about his power level.
If they add my favorite killer and he sucks, there won't be any fun playing him on higher ranks.
For me it's all about design/power level/fun level.
They could literally add a little fairy from Winx Club and I'd play her if shes strong and fun to play.
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"This is just unenjoyable for survivors."
My problem with the game is that it seems to me that devs balance the game arround this statement.
Something-Something strong/enjoyable on killer side?
It's not enjoyable for the survivors. Gut it until it's dead.
I think having 1 killer that can play arround 1 broken perk isn't that bad.
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@Eyhnal said:
Can we make a change to Decisive Strike? It really is situational and I hate that about it.
This is the small change I’m suggesting.
When you get unhooked and the killer downs you within the 60 sec cooldown make the timer pauze until you are healed into the injured state or when you get picked up by the killer (if you get healed from the dying state then the timer continues at where it was paused) everytime I get slugged whenever my decisive strike is ready and it really sucks cause then it’s not useable anymore.
This really is a balanced change and it would make decisive strike much more reliable to use!
Killers: DS is overpowered because survivors just get a 60 seconds invulnerability shield.
Survivors: Well just slug us for 60 then, LOL. EZ fix.
Killers: That's not possible if you pair it with Unbreakable or jump into lockers.
Survivors: That's true. I guess you just get sh1t on.
You: How about we also remove the one and only counterplay that works only sometimes? So killers just have to ignore the person, don't touch him, and basically just lose for free?
I get it. You most be new to the game or still in very low ranks, where games are pretty chaotic. But what you are suggesting would break the balance even more.
DS is allready busted and needs a rework. There a survivor mains and killer mains on youtube with X000 hrs in, and they all agree on it.
If you think that the perk is too weak, you should start doubting your judgement.
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You know that most people use BBQ for the BP multiplier, right?
The aura reading can be countered by lockers or by just faking one direction for a few seconds and then turning.
Stop trying to gut out killers + their perks when most of them need a serious buff.
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@Slashstreetboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1635769#Comment_1635769
Unbelievable! How dare you take so much time to pick this post apart!
Very well done, thank you. I´m in the same boat btw, Killer "main" but play lots of Survivor too.
Posts like OPs just feed more to the endless cycle of whataboutism and adversity between "mains". Maybe he will realise a thing or two with more experience.
Thank you.
English isn't my native language. So I am not sure if I was able to express my thoughts correctly.
And there are still some points I agree with.
Most killer players are crybabies. As soon as they lose, they are looking for a way to blame the survivors for it.
They'll chase unoptimally a survivor for 4 minutes and then start complaining about 'infinite palletes', gen speed or whatever.
They'll bring moris but ONLY complain about keys.
I get the idea.
You get the idea.
But IF we would only be allowed to post constructive criticism, the feedback forum would/should still consist of more threads talking about buffing killers, nerfing maps or nerfing survivor perks, since the games balance favors the survivors side too much.
Atleast on ranks where your opponents are decent.
So usually killers cry too much, and sometimes they cry about the wrong things.
But there is also a lot of valid criticism coming from killers who know what they are talking about - and they have all rights to demand some changes.
Edit: Did my original post just disappear randomly, or is the forum just bugged? I don't know, maybe it will re-appear later.
If not you can still see it in Slashstreetboy's quote.
Edit 2: The post randomly reappeared again.
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-"Why is it that it is obvious from the forum titles which role the person primarily plays?"
This is the feedback forum. I'd assume that if you go out of your way to read/write forum posts, you're probably in the higher ranks, which is easy to achieve as soon as you put some X00 hours in.
Playing survivor on red ranks is easy, as long as you don't get people that disconnect ... which ... sadly happens a lot.
(I feel you survivor mains. I dislike these games as a killer, too.)
This is why there are some threads from survivors giving their feedback about this topic.
Same with NOED. Survivors hate NOED. Survivors hate Camping. Tunneling. Slugging. Moris. Threads like these sometimes pop up.
But even though you might agree with some of these points, the game's balance is still in your favor as the survivors, that's why there isn't much else to complain about from a survivor POV, resulting in not that many threads.
Killer on red ranks however is a stressful shitfest.
You're expected to lose on some maps, because they are just badly designed. (Too big. Ormond/Red Forest).
You're expected to lose with certain killers. "You played well but you went with Clown".
You're often matched up against truly unbalanced perks. (DS overall, DS + Unbreakable. MoM back in the days).
Keys.
SWF. (This is a big one).
Gen Speed.
You either play fair and most likely lose and get ######### on, or you play 'unfairly' and most likely win but still get ######### on in the post game chat.
I agree a bit with Scott Junds perspective that killers cry about too many things. There is a lot of stuff where they just blame survivors for their own lack of skill. But at the end of the day as killer main you'll STILL get the ######### stick from behavior and get picked on by the 4 people you are supposed to hunt, which leads to a lot of negative feedback from killer players.
-"Like you realize survivors run into bs way more than killers but killers run to the forums immediately after something happens once to them."
No they don't. Let's just take the toxicity as an example and assume that as much killers are toxic as survivors are.
Let's say 1 in 8 players are toxic and try to ruin your day after the game by insulting you.
As a survivor you'll run into 7 good killers and have 7 good games, until you encounter 1 toxic killer.
And even then there is still a 75% chance that he's going to insult someone else besides you.
As killer however this means, that every second game you'll have someone contacting you insulting you telling you to k1ll yourself.
This is just a numbers game.
-"You guys need to get into survivor more"
I call myself a killer main but I play both sides.
I can listen to music while playing survivor and typically talk to my buddies (who aren't playing) over discord.
Playing killer however stresses me out sometimes.
I know the other side. It's boring and easy to me, aslong as noone DC's.
-"so you can see how toxic your side can be"
What would you call toxic killer behavior?
Because Camping, Slugging and Tunneling isn't toxic if we go by definition, since you are following your objective to kill your opponents.
I guess a t-bagging ghostface would be toxic, or a killer insulting you in the post game chat, yes.
But most killers don't have the tools to be toxic. If they had, they would use them, don't get me wrong. At the end of the day survivors are just as toxic as killers. Survivors just easily get away with it and are able to express it.
-"but when a killer gets annoyed their fun needs to be prioritized"
It's weird because this is usually the other way arround.
"I don't want to get camped, because this isn't fun for me!"
"I don't want to get tunneled, because I can't play the game that way!"
"It's not fun if the killer doesn't respect the 4%!"
"It's not fun going against (input any killer here) with (input any perks/addons here)."
You know why the 'survivors rulebook' became a funny meme, right?
I don't see killer asking for some guidelines that survivors have to 'respect their totems' and don't cleanse them for the first two minutes, or else we get angry.
We have to destroy 25+ palettes per game. We have to deal with totems spawning next to survivors or visable next to gens. We have to deal with giant maps.
But as soon as we manage to find the same guy twice it's tunneling, toxic, we get insulted and we aren't play fair anymore, because the survivor isn't enjoying his match anymore.
So I see a lot of posts, suggesting to nerf/buff perks so killers can't camp/tunnel/slug anymore.
You don't seem to recognize them.
Guess at the end of the day all we are allowed to do is play perkless trapper, M1 and be completely happy about it.
Meanwhile those guys turn arround, queue up with their SWF team with 4 meta perks but cry out loud as soon as the killer starts tunneling one of them to slow down the game, to have a chance.
But at the end of the day it's just about the survivors fun.
-" I recommend proofreading your posts better in the future to promote healthy discussions"
You didn't do it. Why should someone else do it?
You are calling killers stupid crybabies and are praising survivors who are so much tougher but you want a healthy discussion?
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They need to fix the maps.
On some giant maps like Ormond or Red Forest it takes you like 30-40 seconds from point A to B which is enough time for 2 people to finish a gen.
Other maps turn certain killers useless.
Gen speed is busted.
Certain perks are either busted aswell (DS) or lame to go against (NOED, Adrenaline).
Majority of killers can't perform the tasks they should against good opponents.
SWF breaks the balance of the game, if the SWF sit in coms and are atleast decent + play coordinated. It's like playing survivor with a 7 perk setup, or even more. It takes any risk/chaos out of the game. Just one guy with Object of Obsession and all 4 know at all time what you're doing.
People DC'ing still is a big issue. I'd like a better punishment system / honor system for people who don't dc and don't show toxic behavior. (I am not talking about camping/tunneling/using moris/keys - I am talking about verbal abuse).
Ebony Moris + Keys are busted.
Match-Making-System seems busted. I see lots of post where new people go against high ranked people + vice versa.
Even as a rank 1 guy with 700 hrs it feels dumb going against rank 1 people with 5000 hrs ... But I guess the Queue would be too long, otherwise?
Game is monotone for survivors and too stressful for killers.
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It's basically what arcnkd said.
I personally think that they are balancing arround lower ranks, where majority of players are.
You can play a perkless trapper/clown and have enjoyable matches in lower ranks without problems. Sometimes even in red ranks, because pipping as a survivor seems really easy which leads to very different opponents skillwise.
That's why sometimes you get rank 1 survivors with 150 hrs played in red ranks that can't even hit skill checks and hide all game, and sometimes you get people with legacy skins who got 4000 hours played who know every unfair window/loop.
Honestly, I enjoyed this game (as a killer main) a lot until I became stuck at red ranks. Now it's just unfun and frustrating.
If I play someone like Freddy or Spirit, I do fine most of the time, but I still have to play like a tryhard and not waste any second.
But if I just want to have fun and try out something new like Blight or want to play a lower tier killer to improve with him like Deathslinger I instantly get ######### on because these games seem to be over within 6 minutes while I am doing my best to get 12 hooks in against people with 500-3000 hrs playing their full DS-Adrenaline-DH-BT meta setup.
Just needs one guy running from palette to palette and I am basically fckd with 80% of the killers, and this isn't even some kind of skillful strategy.
Most of the games where I do a crazy comeback with weaker killers are because survivors just don't want to leave, insist on saving one guy within the endgame and ######### up terribily.
It's not that I've played good. They just played bad.
Meanwhile whenever I play survivor within red ranks, I am listening to music or talk to people over discord while I am doing it because most of the time I just do gens and rarely see the killer.
I'd wish that games on higher ranks would take longer + all killers below A-Tier would receive a strong buff.
Also I'd wish for a rework to survivors to add some individuality. Doesn't matter who you play as a survivor. They are just skins. Give them some passives or something.
Maybe give them something that fits their themes like:
-Meg recovers faster from exhaustion.
-Claudette is better at healing.
-Jake sees trap outlines from a very short distance.
-Ace got a luck boost.
I d k.
Communitywise I either play relaxed and lose, resulting in survivors making fun of /insulting me -
or
Tryhard and do my best, which sometimes results in me eliminating 1 target very quick to slow down the game (Which some might refer to as 'Tunneling') resulting in survivors insulting me because I am tryharding, even if it rewards me with a win / statistics show that I've done everything the right way.
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I've hit rank 1 as killer recently (PC) and got like 700 hrs played. I feel comfortable with a few killers, but most matches still stress me out.
I've started checking the steam profiles of my opponents and if they aren't hidden, survivors I go against somehow have 2,500 hrs played, which still feels pretty stupid.
Also I don't like the killer lock. If I want to play Hag but I see 3 people bringing a flash light, I want to switch to another killer. But I can't. So either I fck myself or I dodge.
Since I only have to wait a couple seconds in Q I usually skip these.
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@Kalinikta said:
If doing bones is to much to ask, then destroying pallets is to much to ask.
Destroying pallets is not the main objective of killers, slows down their gameplay and allows survivors more time to work towards escaping. Spending the time breaking it might pay off or not at all, if the survivors never play in that area again you just wasted time. If you get looped around a pallet and they vault back and forth, isn't it in a killers best interest to break it? It is a secondary objective, but according to you those shouldn't be required to be done.
The same thing applies to Hex perks, they don't stop you from escaping, working on generators and opening the gates... but if you choose not to do it, it might make your game more difficult if the killer even brought them. They cost a perk slot for killers, can be disabled by the survivors... you don't have to do bones, but you shouldn't complain about hex perks if you don't want to spend time to disable them.
The choice is on you... you need help doing bones, then bring a detective hunch. It costs the killer a perk slot to make bones important, why shouldn't it cost you one to find them or bring a map? They aren't even important according to you, 5 generators are your only objective... the other 2 can be ignored, the 5 totems can be ignored... so why should the game tell you those that are left in the game.
Killers bring hex perks to gain a strong effect... that is why they spend a perk slot on them, the choice to remove the perk is on survivors... if you find it a waste of time to remove it don't complain about the fact that the killer benefits from the effects they give. Removing them even gives you bloodpoints... which seemingly is your only objective in the game so why are you not? Do bones they give you bloodpoints... win/win
Perfectly said. I fully agree with your take.
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I know that survivors dont like to do anything else than gens because it just ends up slowing them down, which increased the chances of them dying.
But honestly in the last few weeks I had a couple of discussions with people who were interested in playing DbD (as friends - on the survivor side) but they ended up not giving the game a try because: Just doing gens every game - seems boring to them.
I hated Friday the 13th, but atleast there you could do a bit more then gens -> door -> escape.
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-"Bitter murmur gives the Killer information, it does not grant them an insta down."
So what? It still contradicts your statement. The killer gets something for failing (Gens are being done) and survivors get punished for doing their objective. (Getting revealed to the killer for doing gens).
Killer doesn't have to do anything for this perk to activate and basically gets this information for free, while the survivors are getting fked for doing gens.
Like I said: This is just how lots of perks are designed.
It's not an instadown, sure, but NOED doesn't straight win you the game either. It's a situational perk, that sometimes allow you to insta down people if you manage to find the survivors within a short time span.
All this while it still might not activate at all, or when it might get cleansed before getting any value out of it.
-"No matter how strongly you feel about ranking. It. Does. Not. Matter. Deranking, ranking up. It does not matter."
It might not matter to you, dude. But it does matter to a lot of people. You can't just say: "NOED has no real/good counter! What? Bones? No, I don't like that because I have to actually do something else than my objective to get rid of it.
So it's not a real counter!
Wait? You can still cleanse it? So what? Doesn't matter!
Also it gives killers a free quick win without them having to lose anything. Wait? They still derank and 'lose'? I mean, who cares about rank at all? I don't, so it's still stupid! It's just about BP!
Wait, they also do get less BP if they win that way? It's still more BP than the survivors get!"
Like ... What do you want to hear?
-"You want survivors to spend time away from generators so that it's easier for the Killer to apply pressure."
Yes, this is why you take some perks as killer. Especially Hex perks. Ruin. Huntress Lullaby. Devour Hope. Even the risk of NOED is supposed to get survivors of gens to look for totems and slow down the game.
This is why you take these perks. This is why they are designed the way they are.
-"If a killer wants to deny a survivor points by tunneling them, they are playing like a jerk."
...Or they tunnel because they are trying to eliminate 1 of their 4 targets to slow down the game, which is currently balanced in a way that most killers feel like being under a lot of time pressure.
If I am targeting a survivor or "tunneling" him, I am not doing it to deny him of any fun. I am also not playing to entertain the survivors. This isn't my job. I am not supposed to obey any survivor rulebook so they have a good time.
I don't request stuff of them for me either like: "Don't cleanse my hex perk within the first minute of the game, because it stresses me out, plz!"
It's perfectly fine for a killer to camp or tunnel. It's not even toxic. At the end of the day you are following your objective of KILLING the survivors. It might be a lame way that isn't entertaining for the survivors, but like I said, that's not your job.
-" They are not simply "doing their job" by tunneling"
I mean ... technically they are. They are killing off a survivor, which is their job? It's just not that much fun for the survivor.
...
I agree with your issues regarding:
"prevent cocky playstyles by survivors, to take away their feelings of "superiority" because they abuse game mechanics and map designs knowing that the Killer cant do anything about it", though.
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I allready said this.
"Survivors aren't getting punished for doing their job."
It's just a lategame oriented perk.
With your logic a lot of perks would need a rework.
Take Bitter Murmur for example. With your logic I could also say: "Why does the killer see me whenever I finish a gen? Why do I get punished for doing my objective? I am just doing gens, like I am supposed to, and the game/perk is punishing me for it!"
Also Bitter Murmur doesn't require the killer to do something, aswell.
This is just how some perks are designed.
There are lots of perks like these.
Same with survivor perks.
"Why does DS hit me, when I just downed a survivor? Why is this game punishing me for doing my job?"
This is not how it works, dude.
Also NOED has the requirement of having atleast 1 dull totem alive, within the endgame, while relying that you still have to work for it (managing to find/hunt/hit the last survivors before they escape), and it can also get cleansed at this point.
It has every counterplay opportunity any other hex has, and even more.
People just complain against NOED because it's lame to go against.
The only point I agree with is a BP issue. But survivors tend to get less BP overall, which could need some adjustments.
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I've posted this in another thread.
I'd just like some kind of bandage-fix until they figure something out.
Something to make going against SWF more lucrative for killers, like a BP multiplier.
I could imagine something like this:
You go against 2 SWF + 1 Random + 1 Random = +25% BP.
You go against 2 SWF + 2 SWF = +50% BP.
You go against 3 SWF + 1 Random = +75% BP.
You go against 4 SWF = 100% BP.
I think killers wouldn't dodge/despise these games that much, if they know that they get something out of it - besides the bullying.
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@lazerlight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1631829#Comment_1631829
Literally. They all choose to ignore the main points I bring up and a lot of them get angry and annoyed. They bring up "but what about when you're going against optimal groups!?" like they think I haven't gone against cocky survivors who pre-drop pallets to finish a gen right in front of me... and they counter my "dont say {do bones}" argument with "Do Bones". Lol, it's hilarious. They instantly assume I'm an immersed survivor main that crouches around the entire map not doing anything. When it's the complete opposite. I play both roles. I know the struggles of both roles. I know the frustrations of both roles. But as soon as you say you want a change for one side, you're a clown and a joke and entitled and a *crybaby*. ...When they're the ones getting personally offended and agitated....
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1631902#Comment_1631902
Honestly???? That sounds like a sick Idea!!! I'd love that to be implemented!! That way both sides know when all totems are gone!
I've given you like 6 points, you quote one of them and act like 'this is all people replied with'.
Yes, there is no need to implement your idea of a fix because it would end up weakening perks which are allready 'High Risk - Medium Reward' average perks at best, that most of the time don't even come into play, leading to the killer just giving up a perk slot.
I listed you reasons why NOED shouldnt be nerfed, and why it baffles me that players like you seek for ways to fix/nerf the perk, when it's perfectly fine where it is.
But I guess my post was too long for you to read, that's why you only read one point and act like the evil entitled killer mains aren't even thinking of your idea. :)
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@KrazyAce13 said:
This will be a short read so you’re welcome...
dont do bones dont get points dont cry when downed 5 feet from exit gates with noed... this is a bad mentality that has come from a big streamer that wants noed nerfed but says wasting time on bones when doing gens is more important is bad. This is kind of like hexys counter argument for selfcare haters, it takes less time to selfcare than it does being dead. It takes less time todo bones than the time wasted being downed in front of the gate to noed.
I am a killer main, so your assumption is wrong. And even if I do play survivor, I allways leave, because I don't wanna be that toxic idiot who wastes 2 minutes at the exit gates just to t-bag the killer.
It's simple, dude.
"Just do bones", if you want to get rid of NOED.
You don't want to do bones?
Well, maybe your teammates got rid of 'em. Maybe the killer doesn't even have NOED.
Maybe he has it, but you die before it activates.
Maybe he gets you, but you were injured anyways and he would have gotten you regardless.
Maybe he has it but it gets cleansed before he reaches someone.
Like I said, NOED is so damn situational that it turns into a unreliable ######### perk on higher ranks. People don't bother with it because they know it's average at best.
So why nerf it? Because yellow/greens have a problem dealing with it? They want to rush even faster and not care at all about totems?
I mean, it would fit bhrv's balancing style.
Back in the day when I used to play survivor, I would allways expect NOED but don't bother dealing with totems.
If the killer doesnt get me within the endgame, I would be fine. And in 9/10 cases this was the case.
Sure, there were these rounds were I was in a chase, the killer is lunging and mid-air the last gen pops, NOED procs and I get insta-downed and die on the first hook.
Of course this is frustrating. But this happened 1 out of 200 games.
There are way worse perks to worry about.
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Ah, the heavily nerfed, now balanced DS.
I remember that one time where I hooked all 4 people next to the opened exit gates. (Not at the same time, just one by one in a very quick manner).
The gates were opened and I ended up downing all 4 of them in front of these gates.
I knew what was about to happen and it still surprised me.
They were all crawling towards the exit. I couldn't just slug and wait 60 seconds.
So I've picked the first one up. DS. He escaped.
I've picked the second one up. DS. He espaped.
The Third one did the same.
So did the fourth, he also added a quick T-Bag before leaving.
I guess I was tunneling all 4 of them.
But since we got PH now, the whole killer side is suddenly balanced and strong now, right ... right?
...
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Isn't it quite telling if most people respond with: "This shouldn't be added, because majority of killers would opt out?"
Something has to be wrong, if lots of people dislike it.
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SWF just by default gives the survivors an unfair advantage and basically free perk slots.
That doesn't mean that every SWF is going to win.
It's like giving killers 7 perks. Would that result into every killer winning, suddenly?
No. It's still unfair, though.
But since I don't want this game to die, I wouldn't advice them to add this feature.
You know what I would like?
A simple bandage-fix.
Gift killers with a BP multiplier that go against SWF.
Are you going against 2 SWF + 1 Random + 1 Random? +25% BP multiplier.
Are you going against 2 SWF + 2 SWF? +50% BP multiplier.
Are you going against 3 SWF + 1 Random? +75% BP multiplier.
Are you going against a 4 SWF squad? +100% BP multiplier.
This wouldn't make the game more balanced. But I know a lot of killer mains that wouldn't dodge these lobbies then.
And this game is too much of a grind, anyways. (Especially for survivors, but in this certain case we need a way to make it more lucrative for killers).
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I am not sure why people complain about NOED.
Unpopular opinion, but:
The perk is average at best.
Atleast on higher ranks. I can imagine that it reks butts on yellow/green/purple ranks.
But why do so many survivors complain about it?
NOED is so damn situational, that it almost never works out in the first place, since:
1) The perk only activates as soon as the endgame is reached.
I must say, the majority of my wins end with a 3K + Hatch Escape, followed by a 4K.
NOED doesn't activate if you win beforehand. So why take a perk that relies on you almost losing?
There are so many better perks to choose from which will boost you in almost every scenario.
Corrupt Intervention, Ruin, Enduring, Spirit Fury, Whispers, Discordance, Brutal Strenght, and many, many more.
2) Doing Bones.
Here we go. I've read multiple arguments regarding this one.
'Doing bones isn't a counter, because it takes time to do so.'
'Doing bones isn't a counter, because it's not my objective and I don't have to do it.'
I mean, atleast there are ways to counter it.
If I - as a killer main - could go to every corner of the map to light up some graves to disable adrenaline/exhaustion perks/whatever I might do it. (+ it would give me hella BP).
Doing bones isn't difficult. And as you get more experienced with the game you start remembering all the totem spawns, IF they don't spawn clearly visiable next to gens, like it happens with my games.
People expect me to 'Just leave survivors for 60 seconds' whenever they could have DS. There is literally no counter play whenever they just jump into a locked. I can't just sit there and wait a minute.
There is no real counter play to adrenaline. Sometimes you just have to watch them get healed, while being unable to reach them.
But meanwhile I hear stuff like: 'Sometimes the killer pressures all 4 of us so we cant cleanse the totems all arround the map'.
Seriously? If the killer somehow tp's all arround the map at once NOED is going to be your smallest issue.
I don't use NOED. But I've tested it. And most of the time it didn't even activate, because all the totems where allready gone.
This was before they started rewarding survivors with double the BP for cleansing.
3) Even if it activates, it tends to get cleansed before you get value out of it.
I've seen this strategy before where survivors leave 1 dull totem in the open and wait for the last Gen to pop to see if it lights up. If it does, they cleanse it - if it hasn't been cleansed by a random allready.
And even without any strategy it seems that some random allways stumbles over this totem whenever it lights up.
4) Sometimes it does activate, but even though you have it, you still have to find, hunt, down and hook the survivor. All within the endgame is going. If you're by chance too far away from one of the exit gates, they'll be allready gone before you can make use of it.
5) Sometimes you only get value out of the speed boost, because the target you are hitting with NOED was allready injured/you would have gotten him anyways.
6) Even if you end up getting value out of it, most of the time it's just 1 instadown, unless you are facing a dumb SWF team which even hook-dives a facecamping leatherface to try and safe their teammate. There are killers that also achieve this with their simple kit - or perks like Haunted Ground/Make Your Choice.
NOED isn't that good.
And lastly, I dislike the point where you said that survivors are getting punished for doing their objective.
They don't.
It's really simple to be honest.
There are a certain bunch of killer perks which focus on the late game.
NOED. Blood Warden. Remember Me.
They are bad at one state of the game, but useful under in certain situations. They aren't punishing the survivor for doing good, they are simply just created to work under different circumstances than your average 'Whispers' perk.
You could say the same with survivor perks. DS for example. Why do I get punished for doing good? I downed the survivor and he gets a 'Get out of jail free card'?
This is just how some perks work.
Also: Killers DO get punished for ending games quick - aswell as camping. It reduces their points, they have a harder way of ranking up/derank, and good survivors will take the opportunity (if they see the killer camping) and win the game.
( I saw that you said: "Don't say this!" but this is literally the state of the game. If you camp, you lose pips. You also most likely lose the game and you don't get much BP. So what is there else to add?)
When I tested NOED it was useless in 7 out 8 games, because I wouldn't have needed it, it got cleansed, it didnt activate or survivors escaped anyways.
~Sincerely, a killer main that doesn't use NOED because it's #########.
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This is a very bad idea in my opinion.
I would never want to give my opponents the opportunity to rate me.
After 800hrs of game time I've been called these 'bad' words more often when I was playing fair, than when I was actually camping or tunneling.
I am standing next to the hook, because I am drawing one trap as Hag? --> Camper!
I am within 32 metres of the hook? --> (Proxy) Camper!
I see someone going for the unhook, so I follow him back to the hook? --> Camper!
After hooking the survivor I see all the remaining survivors in front of me, taunting me, trying to lure me away from their friend - while they are literally doing nothing? --> Camper!
I managed to find the same survivor twice? --> Tunneler!
I could keep this list forever.
Also regarding tunneling ... I get that it's frustrating but sometimes you just have to tunnel. Eliminating one target quickly slows down a game.
In some games as killer you've got 5 minutes for 12 hooks. This is nearly impossible with all these 25-30 pallets arround.
Whenever I see these pro streamers with 3000-5000 hrs in, whenever they do some kind of hard killer challenge, they turn to tunneling to secure some games/wins.
It's just a tool you might want to take sometimes, if you want to win.
Same with slugging.
I get that it's annoying.
But getting your Hex cleansed within 20 seconds is also annyoing.
Going against SWF that coordinate each step via voice coms is frustrating and unbalanced.
Getting hit by DS is also really unpleasant. I had games where I hooked 4 people (not at once), downed them in front of the opened exit gates, and all four were able to crawl out. Nothing I could do.
I've picked up the first, got hit by DS, he escaped. Picked up the second, got hit by DS, he escaped ... Happened with all 4. Couldn't slug them either, because they were simply just crawling out. 'Anti Tunnel Perk' my ass.
But as a killer main I have to deal with these things. And I don't blame survivors. I also play with the most OP perks and the most unfair strategies as possible, whenever I play survivor.
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Didn't try switching ports yet. I'll test it, but I also doubt that this is the issue.
At first I thought it's some kind of crossplay issue, because most of the time it happened while I was chasing console-survivors (as a PC killer).
But then it happened once or twice with PC survivors, too.
Regarding the timing I haven't noticed anything specific yet.
It happened way before Bloodlust would kick in.
It's weird. Whenever I go for longer lunges that should hit - they just interrupt early like the game tries to deny me the hit.
And I am not talking about 'barely hitting' - just the difference where a quick attack wouldnt hit, but a lunge should.
But even though I hold M1 it just instantly goes off.
Like I said, this happens like 1-3 per game. Sometimes it doesnt happen at all. Sometimes it happens twice.
It's just weird.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Are you sure your M1 isn't breaking? I had a similar issue with my M2 where I'd be charging a blink as Nurse and then without warning I'd just blink despite not letting go of the button. Turned out it was just my M2 breaking.
I changed my mouse once and it still happened.
I don't have any issues with it while playing other games.
It's just weird.
Sometimes I am just doing lunging-attacks freely in the open and it works perfectly, but as soon as a chase starts and when they 'should' hit, it feels like a gamble where they sometimes just bug out.