johntec
johntec
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- johntec
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For me it would be enough to remove the motion sensors tbh. At least then you could play the supposed stealth killer as an actual stealth killer. And they should add counterplay to the double turret setup
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@Valimure said:
It's definitely the power creep / lack of new ideas showing through again. I think Vecna was the last truly unique killer we got - everything else has been mashups of other killer powers, for better or for worse. Dracula is just Spirit, Demo, and Nemesis rolled into one. Houndmaster is a budget Twins. Updated Freddy is Clown + Onryo. Kaneki is Blight + Legion. Springtrap is Huntress + Xeno.
I'm hoping that part of Springtrap's stealth issues will be solved when they actually fix the bug of him not being visible coming out of doors. There definitely should be an animation there, and that extra second of reaction times makes a HUGE difference.
Tbh I don't really have a problem with killers having a similar power, like Dracula and Nemesis. For me they're both different enough to have fun with both of them. Although I get your point. But when you have a killer like Springtrap, who is literally the same as Xeno but better, it feels like a scam to me. Like the devs are saying "Oh Xeno wasn't successful enough, so let's reuse his ability and make it way better, and completely ignore and forget about the people who enjoy Xenomorph as a character, they can just buy the better version
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@Sarrif said:
Or just… you know use a sac ward if you are bothered by it or your own map offering. It's not like there's a shortage of either.
Yeah who needs bloodpoints or other stuff if u can bring a sac ward every game to prevent a potential map offering from the opposite site. Also I don't want to determine what map it will be either, I just want it to be random, like it's supposed to be. Map offerngs just have way to much of an impact right now
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@Ohyakno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3720214#Comment_3720214
You think gens aren't typically near map resources? That's an interesting stance.
I'm not sure what "scouting" even means. You're just dropping the jailer around randomly to try and find people? The best case scenario is that jailer hits on someone and begins chase and then.... What? He doesn't do anything on his own and if you don't know they are there you're not going to be in a position to pincer. Other scenario is he finds no one and you have to trundle up to him and turn him off. Last one is someone runs nearby but not in the patrol path and you have to chase them as a killer without a power for 24s or walk over to the jailer and hit it, meanwhile your target is halfway across the map. Hear that? It's two gens popping while you're trying to "scout" with your antiloop power. It doesn't work. It's like you've read knights power and never actually tried to use it or are using it against the worst survivors in the world.
I even said you would either get the hit or a pallet. Yes again in some cases the gen is in a maze tile where the assassin will probably not get that hit, but not all seven gens are in or near maze tiles, some are near filler pallets or sometimes even in a dead zone and the knight player of course adapts to this and only sends the assassin to a gen where a hit or pallet is mostly guaranteed.
Also in another post you compared knight to a ranged spirit, but spirit is a pure chase killer where using her power is almost always a hit or pallet, while knight is all about splitting pressure und keeping multiple survivors busy, so comparing those two killers only because they share a part of their power namely making survivors invisible for them doesn't make much sense.
I guess your problem is that you play knight only as a pure chase killer, which would also be the reason why you prefer the carnifex so much. But that's not his strength, his strength is map pressure, and for this all guards are viable
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@Ohyakno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3720170#Comment_3720170
Assassin will get a hit assuming the survivor doesn't know how to run around the nearest rock, doesn't have a pallet or vault nearby, is confused about the concept of pallets and vaults and just stands there and gets hit, or doesn't know to just pre run when the Knight's terror radius briefly drops out when he begins the orb.
Assuming all that stuff then yeah assassin will hit someone. I'm pretty sure if you look at statistics carni gets more hits than the other two combined. He's just better in every way.
Again I disagree, and btw I played Knight quiet a bit now. If you use the add on which makes guards chase 4 seconds longer combined with the map of the realm add on and send an assassin, you'll either get a hit or a pallet very consistent. Remember, assassin is the only guard that has 110% movement speed, while carnivex has 103, so carnivex is the one who almost never catches up. Yes there can be a scenario where a gen is near a window leading to the assassin not getting the hit, but usually that's not the case. And again, Jailor is not used for chase but for scouting and patroling
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@Ohyakno said:
There would be no reason to spawn any guard but carnifex.
I disagree. I think all three guards are useful. Sure Carnifex can break pallets fast and chases quiet long, however sending an assassin to a gen is almost always a guaranteed hit and the jailer is good for patroling areas or finding survs. This change would basically emphasize the different roles of the guards. The Assassin sneaks up and hits quickly, the carnifex is the brutal but slow tank and the jailer the scouting role. Would be way more interesting imo
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@TieBreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649524#Comment_3649524
I think you are underestimating how effective tunneling is. Most survivors can't run the killer for more than 30 seconds without going down. The number of survivors that can keep a tunneling killer busy long enough to make it a losing strategy for the killer is very low.
Despite what the devs assert, survivors overall are very altruistic, even in solo queue. When tunneling occurs in solo queue, the lack of coordination combined with altruistic behaviour throws the match into absolute chaos. The only time survivors stick to gens is when one is almost completed or there is only one left. That's assuming that survivors can even find the gens in an efficient manner.
It's much easier for the killer to play optimally, as they do not have to rely on anyone other than themselves. The nature of playing survivor depends on your teammates, which opens up a lot of possibilities for things to go wrong. Outside of high level SWF teams, things go wrong for survivors all the time.
Your proposed changes don't target high level SWF survivors, it targets everyone. Non-competitive and solo queue players don't need more nerfs.
Yeah I definitly see your point. Personally I'm not a fan of balancing a game around weak players, but the lack of coordination in solo queue is definitly a problem. That's where I think some form of matchmaking would help, so experienced players get matched with other experienced players (I have 3k hours, which compared to others is not that much, but I dont wanna get matched with people who have 1k hours or less, not because I wanna shame them, they just lack experience)
However matchmaking would result in good players only seeing blight and nurse, and weak killers constantly being stomped on, which is also boring, so I don't know how to solve this problem.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649524#Comment_3649524
And again, you did not answer my question.
So i will just copy paste for you.
"Alright, let's ignore all of this and let me ask this question: The nature of DbD is that, survivors are strong early game and weak at end game. Killers are opposite, they are weak at early game and strong late game.
That's because no survivor is on hook, in chase and all of them are on gens freely. But killer is hooking them, some pallets are removing from game, resources used and now killer is stronger.
So how survivors will able to win in this scenario? They will give hook states which means some of them will be dead hook. They lost early game pressure which means less gens finished. Also resources used, that means chases are faster now for killer. So they are no longer strong at early game but still weak at late game.
How this is sounds fair and balanced to you? Really curious."
You are asking nerf for early game of survivors without nerfing late game of killers. How that's sounds fair for you? And if you are believing tunnelling is fair, i have no words for you anyway.
Ok let's imagine a situation, which could occure right now in the game, and you tell me wether this is problematic or not. The killer has two hooks and three gens are already repaired. It only took the survivors 90 seconds to repair those three gens. In those 90!! seconds, it is impossible that the killer got rid of enough pallets to be strong or op in the late game, unless the chased survivor played bad, dropped every pallet and didn't utilise the loops potential.
Now if survivors keep splitting up after the first three gens got repaired, they still keep a lot of pressure in the late game as well. If you ever played killer, you know what I mean. Four gens are left, two gens or more are being repaired, and as soon as u leave a gen as killer to protect the other, survivors shift w away from that gen, making the chase not viable for the killer, and the gen the killer just left, continues being repaired. Now the killer has the option to commit a chase and propably lose the game, or try to hold a three gen which is extremly boring for both sides. Does this sound fun or fair? I don't think so.
And I didn't say my idea is the only solution, it was just an idea to solve this problem of the first three gens being repaired to quickly
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@Nebula said:
They've already upped the solo generator time by 10 seconds somewhat recently. Nobody wants to sit on a gen for 100+ seconds.
Thats true, but the devs already stated they don't wanna implement an early game mechanic, so I don't know what else could be done
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
Nah, that's not good idea.
We don't need more slowdown on B to S tier killers. They are doing just fine.
And also, how this is only problem right now? Tunnelling is pretty much so strong and this is not problem for you? Or Nurse, who breaks all game rules is not problem?
Alright, let's ignore all of this and let me ask this question: The nature of DbD is that, survivors are strong early game and weak at end game. Killers are opposite, they are weak at early game and strong late game.
That's because no survivor is on hook, in chase and all of them are on gens freely. But killer is hooking them, some pallets are removing from game, resources used and now killer is stronger.
So how survivors will able to win in this scenario? They will give hook states which means some of them will be dead hook. They lost early game pressure which means less gens finished. Also resources used, that means chases are faster now for killer. So they are no longer strong at early game but still weak at late game.
How this is sounds fair and balanced to you? Really curious.
First of all, I don't think tunneling is a problem. This may be an unpopular opinion but the base kit bt plus movement speed bonus is enough to hurt a tunneling killer, if the others do gens(and I'm not talking about nurse, she's a special case) Of course the one getting tunneled is propably gonna die, but the killer is still gonna lose the game if they tunnel.
And yes it's true that the killers pressure increase over time with more generators being repaired, however if survivors do gens really efficiently(that means no chest opening, no unnecessary cleansing of dull totems) in theory three gens could pop within 90 seconds. That means the killer has maybe one, if they play well three hooks, compared to three gens being repaired at the same time. No amount of pressure from the killer side can make this game winable for the them (and yes I'm not including comp nurse players destroying solo queue when talking about this) Also three gening, the most popular late game strategy has been nerfed(which I fully support) So no, I still think those first three gens massivly hurt the killer if survivors play well
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@Heliosse said:
I think the design is really good, a lot of people wanted more but it would have been awful, facehuggers would be a mess, a power like pig either too strong or too weak + it's clearly not the focus, they aimed for an Alien line in Alien isolation, not the ovomorph, facehuggers or either lifestate, they brought us the Xenomorph itself so i clearly see why the rest was putted aside. Walking on the walls or the ceiling is, accurate yes but ridiculous, seriously, people, this concept would be just like nurse, a power sonbroken at it's core it would be heavily limited and sluggished to make up for it, it would have been way worse. It's important to remember that this creature is hard to implement, what we got is a good balance for what dbd is capable of.
Dbd cannot deliver an Alien with it's full might just like it cannot give us an accurate Nemesis. Most of the licensed killers are not accurate to their real power (Nemesis, PH, Pinhead, Wesker for some exemples). The difference is that except for Nemesis, the others were not hyped at all (for the vast majority not everyone of course). What i want to show by that is that the liberties taken and the opportunities missed are not picked up by players because theses characters are obscure and niche:
Wesker is way more competent and lethal than it's dbd iteration (he has a dash so je is saved but still) the uroboros is nothing like the real utoboros. They adapated him.
Nemesis, i'll let you see TheDarkTyrant rants, they are great
Pyramid head, honestly, hat's off, this character has nothing in it's game, not even the base speed, some it is entirely new
Pinhead with plastic chains and a box that does something that it never did in any movies, entirely nerfed and new, they adapted him.
But since theses characters (except Nemesis), they did not suffer from expectations that high.
I've been playing dbd for a while now, and i like to create concepts (i have like 13 now) so naturally i go watch some others people concepts to see what they cooked, and i almost never saw PH, Cenobite or Wesker. RE was popular of course, but with Nemesis/Mr X/Dimitrescu/Birkin/Jack (must be the remakes + re7-8 launching, Wesker was not that popular at all).
Today Wesker is considered peak, good design and now everyone loves him, he is now popular, people even outside of dbd likes him while they were indifferent before. He grew from niche charismatic villain to superpopular (im talking in the dbd community not in general, wesker is a well knowed villain in the "horror scene").
What makes Wesker a "good design":
- Voice lines (has a little part in it)
- Chase music (has a little part in it)
- Dash attack (very high part)
- Ability to throw and slam survivors (unique part)
- Multiple exploits/techs or whatever you call them adding skill and fun (really high)
- A freedom, low CD, great mobility, the ability to pop over pallets or windows, the natural ability to CATCH UP and counter the massive W (really high)
The Alien got the reverse treatment, it was an hyped chararacter since the very first licensed IP coming, Halloween.
Today we got it and everyone is disapointed, because of 3 things:
- We wanted somehing else (with such versatility and creativity in the creature, we could have had 3 or 4 different kits that worked easily). Expectations were tremendously high, maybe the highest of them all.
- It's a mid ranged attack and everyone hate that at it's very core plus nobody learned the counterplay with the turrets anyway. Even today i still see turrets placed in front of the stations everytime i face an Alien.
- A strong traumatism at the launch while it was bugged, this is also key, in the ptb, the feedback was super positive but the first impression in the live was very PTSD inducing for a lot of players (myself included, i found it ridiculous).
Xenomorph is for me an almost perfect design, it is strong, a good balance between what we wanted and what could behaviour do with the IP i was waiting for all this time.
IF Xeno had a dash attack replacing it's tail attack, it would have been one of the most played killer right now, it has nothing to do with the IP, it's a fact, people loves dashes, almost every characters with a dash is "balanced, great design, fun to play, fun to verse" and we are going to see why:
Take Wesker, the CD when missing a dash is 1.5 but you have the distance since he will go far away most of the times, now take Nemesis or Xenomorph, when they miss, they have a big CD, but they are right next to you, so it feels like them missing is not problematic, the thing is, there is a problem with the very concept of a mid ranged attack and this is the ultimate flaw with Xenomorph.
Huntress is the only ranged killer that people usually likes, because she can try, that's the word, try. She can try to hit you over the map and she can also zone you. Why is she considered good design ? Because people will go for snipe shots most of the times and you as a survivor will feel like she deserve the hit because it was a good play. A huntress that catchs up is horrendous to verse, by the time you have taken the first hit, she will already lift up the other hatchet and you will still be having the speed boost from the first hit...
Xenomorph and Nemesis cannot try, they simply cannot, their power is limited to such a low range that you have to catch up (boring) to be in your "power range". This is BS, because survivors will want to run to stay away from the power zone, thus leaving every loops and you will desperatly want to interact with them and play your power. Creating an horrendous loop of boredom, due to their limitation, their powers are strong but limited, they do not have the freedom of Wesker, Blight or Huntress. They are cluncky and limited, so for most players, unfun.
Also you, as a survivor cannot interact with the unique and incredible part of it's kit, the tunnels and that is a massive shame, plus with the motion tracker, the previsibility of it's mobility (like i said, lack of freedom) and the nature of it's m2, ive seen a lot of players just prerunning me, which makes my games really miserables.
Xenomorph has a very great design on paper, it's power was really well thinked:
The tunnels with the footsetps, a mobility that is very great, the turrets being super fun as survivors and the tail being really great to have some unique hits but, Xenomorph like all killer with such an attack will be disliked, because this is the fate of this type of power. Replace it with a dash like chucky, an "ambush" and boom you have corrected the killer.
I agree that it would have been better, they clearly took the Alien:Isolation route with it's animation and even the power logic:
Xenomorph is in the vents, detects someone, drops on him, chase him with a almost no counterplay (in AI, you are dead when it drops on you) and you can counter it with fire.
At the end of the day, i think what we got is very solid, it's sad to see such an icon be hated by almost everyone, it's disapointing, maybe it should have never come to dbd in the first place. I am overjoyed with this charcater that i wanted for too long, i loved every matchs against it, and plays almost only it for now. For me it's the best chapter we ever had, up there woth Silent Hill.
PS: I would like some opinions on this: Are Xenomorph tunnels great ?
I'll explain: When i watch a Xeno player or play against it, they usually use the tunnels at the beginning and after that, it's over. This is because Xenomorph can usually just walk to their objectives and it's much faster than walking to a control station and going in a fixed location, almost everytime not where you want. And that's something i really dislike.
So for you all, are the tunnels actually great lr are you just playing a mid ranged attack killer that can get burned.
I play too much into my tunnels and i think it's costing me.
Thanks for the reply, I personally feel the same way. Mid ranged killer are always a bit disliked by the community because of the reasons you mentioned. I was just really sad that such an iconic character, which I wanted since I started playing the game, got a power like this, which would automatically lead to this "boring" gameplay in chase. However over the last months they have really grown on me.
To answer your question, I've also played Xeno a lot and I always try to use the tunnels as much as possible. The information u can get is great. But it also depends on how the control stations spawn. During the christmas event, the tunnelspawns weren't always near gens which could sometimes be beneficial as it allowed u to find and interupt survivors who are healing or hiding. But sometimes a map would spawn with not a single control station in one area, then it's very difficult to use the tunnels to your benefit.
Of course it depends on the situation, and in some games u might not use the tunnels at all, but if the survivors split up and do seperate gens, especially on big maps, then the tunnels combined with a sort of hit and run playstyle are a great tool I think.
You also mentioned that survivors often prerun whenever you come out of a control station. Here it can sometimes be beneficial not to use the control station right next to the gen, but one that allows u to get close to it and deny survivors acces to the map, zoning them to the edge of the map. This often worked really well for me, but of course is not always possible, depending on the rng.