deifi
deifi
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3721311#Comment_3721311
The original argument is to have ways for survivors to fight back and bonuses of having them while simultaneously saying that killers are making the game unfun for survivors and since killers have "guns and throwable objects while making them faster than the survivors" that survivors SHOULD have these methods to fight back. Nowhere do the 3 of us see anything like "The original argument is whether or not it is agreeable to level the playing field by nerfing killers." Please show us.
OUR original post was snark asking if they know what kind of game this is. Then you make a counter argument. Then we responded on how many slasher movies have "happy endings" with some examples. You proceed to call us biased and then go for "the good guy winning" route. The one responding got ticked and proceeded to throw more examples.
Now we are here.
First: trying to measure 3 people off 1 pic is going to end in disaster. Second: Currently we have been playing survivors much more than killer as those achievements and rift quests are what we need. While we do favor playing the killer, we are unbiased as we're well aware as to the BS on both sides. Reason we're bird-lady? We like spooky and pretty things. She fits both. Since your at best only half right does this mean we get your bank account or only half?
The stats also don't take into account the survivors who give up by running into the killer, swing on hook to die, and leaving the rest of the team as easy prey for the killer who gets their kill rate increased~ Honestly, merchant is
You realize that killers ALSO have a fine line as one mistake cost them as much. As that survivor is being chased the 3 other survivors are (ideally) working on the gens coming closer and closer to powering the gate and opening the doors. Both sides can come back from a bad start, it's only harder on the survivor end cause they rely on a team.
It is 1v4, but let's look at it this way, survivors cannot FIGHT BACK. It's like giving someone supernatural powers and a weapon versus 4 normal humans with a medkit and flashlight. When people say "Oh it's 1v4" no - it's 4 un-armed people against a supernatural being with a weapon.
Man, almost like the movie Alien or something...also that's still technically a 4 v 1 as it's a singular being (exception of the Twins). Yes survivors can't explicitly fight back, they need to AVOID the big bad killer who will usually kill them if given half a chance or outsmart/play them and lose chase. Now we admit this is going to be rude to ask but: You do know this is the "slasher horror movie" esque game right?
No not all killers expect auto wins as that's factually incorrect. Only the unreasonable from either end expect auto wins. Now we need you to remember that the devs are trying for a 60% kill rate. With how many survivors are playing at a given moment, its very VERY likely that yes its going to take numerous games to escape as a individual survivor.
Lastly we feel your going to need to reword that last one. Nurse is below the 60% last we checked.
First off, here's the stats
You're right, Nurse as a whole is not above 60% kill threshold, but SM, Sadako, Cenobite, and Freddy are. You can argue the 1,2,3% differences but there is missing kill data from disconnects.
The poster made 3 recommendations to "fight back". I agree that you can't essentially give survivors a "gun" or "weapon". However, they mention
"So, if you're gonna give the killers guns and throwable objects while making them faster than the survivors give the survivors more and better add Ons, powers and or abilities."
add-ons and better "abilities" or perks are in the spirit of the game. But, behavior did also, for example, add fire turrets for xenomorph.
Now to say that Killers suffer from the same "mistakes" as survivors is significantly different. You die if you make a mistake as a survivor. A killer, makes a mistake can adjust, or pivot to another survivor or generator. The survivors runs out of resources e.g. no more pallets, whereas the killer can mess up for 4 gens and close the game within the last 1 gen or powered gate. Matter of fact, most killer close the gap by simply camping or zoning a survivor out for 3 hook phases.
Statistically, 60% kill rate means that on average 1.8 survivors escape per game. Now, I disagree with the 60% kill threshold, it should be 50-55%. It should on average, 2 survivors that escape. Which is why these threads exist.
You do know "Slasher Horror-movie esque games", no it's a genre of horror. There are slasher killers and fear/thriller killers e.g. Sadako. It also does not mean you unbalance what is at the end of the day… a GAME. Outlast Trials for example is one where it is balanced and rewards skill. They can easily pivot DBD to apply more horror aspects than make it miserable to play for survivors.
Also, you don't have to blitz through survivors lives, I find much joy when I run Scratched Mirror Meyer build where I probably average 2 kills per game but the thrill of seeing survivors panic when I pop out of no where is hilarious.
Alien is also a terrible example, the survivors and Ripley were given weapons - ironically the fire turrets they gave survivors, to the original posters request of a "weapon" (what a fresh concept for survivors) can also be explored to further balance the game.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717688#Comment_3717688
We are biased for liking how bird lady looks? Shocking. Not that you care but we do play survivor (more than killer atm as the last achievements we need are survivor). Wording is key. Otherwise people like us will play loophole abuse.
If most if not all our friends were killed by a boogieman we definitely wouldn't call that a happy end. Even removing "extremely". Taking a look back to Halloween, the (recent) sequels show a realistic view of what happens to that "good guy". Laurie becomes a paranoid wreck, her family goes through more trauma, and the "happy end" comes at the cost of a LOT of lives (Mikey has a pretty high body count for a normal guy without a gun)
{Apologies if he sounds a little ticked, but you did just immediately assume biased based on a profile pic...}
The original argument is whether or not it is agreeable to level the playing field by nerfing killers.
People choose avatar/profile pics based on a reflection of their interests and likes, 1400+ posts and you have artist as your avatar pic. I would bet my bank account you play killer more and are biased towards that role - which as I alluded to based on your profile/avatar.
Back to the core of the argument - The original poster said that SOME killers are overpowered, I agree - there's clearly statistics that Nurse, Skull Merchant and Chuckie have over 70%+ kill rates. This doesn't even account for DC's and the handful of killers that allow survivors to leave.
Those killers need a 10-15% nerf. SURVIVORS have a very fine line to win. One mistake and they lose a health state, Killers are afforded time. Just because killers get frustrated that they're losing a loop doesn't mean they cannot close the gap as more more and pallets become unavailable and there's less generators to defend.
It is 1v4, but let's look at it this way, survivors cannot FIGHT BACK. It's like giving someone supernatural powers and a weapon versus 4 normal humans with a medkit and flashlight. When people say "Oh it's 1v4" no - it's 4 un-armed people against a supernatural being with a weapon.
Killers go into this game expecting auto-wins. It's like murdering on average 2-3 people a game isn't enough to satisfy their bloodlust, while a survivor has to on-average participate in NUMEROUS games before they can escape a game in the current patch state.
Behavior Interactive as a whole has stated the kill-rate should be closer to 60%. That's fine, but buff the killers who are below that average and nerf the over-powered ones to that percentile.
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You are now arguing semantics by throwing in words like "extremely" to happy endings". It's also quite obvious you are biased with "The Artist" as your avatar.
I never argued how many people died, the core ending of nearly every slash horror movie is that there are survivors that escape or survive. I merely stated survivor slasher horror movies end with the "good guy" winning in 90% of the movies. Then the sequels are just to perpetuate the IP for $$$.
I agree that going back to 50/50 is the accurate thing to do.
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You do know, horror movies have more happy endings than not, right?
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What's chuckies kill rate? 80%?
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This is absolutely false. It is the best for killers, even the DBD data proves it https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650168#Comment_3650168. Not only that, the kill rate doesn't bake in the % of hatch escapes , people who disconnect from D-bag camping/tunnelers and the killers who purposely let survivors go.
It's also a snowball advantage for killers. Just because you have 0 hooks after 2-3 gens are done, does not mean the amount of pallets left available AND the amount of territory you have to defend shrinks significantly - making comebacks sooooo much easier for killers.
There are no such advantage for survivors.
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The definition of tunneling in the majority of the community is by definition the killer focusing on 1-specific player survivor out of the game.
The argument that "killers" need this strategy to go well in their favor early game is fair. However, killers ALWAYS discount that as more generators are completed, there are less generators to defend, resulting in less ground to cover. Regardless of the counter argument of "well survivors can cross-pattern generators maximizing distance", you are correct, but again - the killer still has to only move to 3 different locations to defend 7 or 6 or 5 or 4 gens. Defending 3 will always be easier than more, simple math.
Summarizing, that killers can always make a "Comeback" when there's less generators left to complete on the map. I've had killer games where we had 0 hooks, and had 1 gen left, and I went 3K or 4K, i see it all the time. I say this because SURVIVORS DO NOT HAVE THAT CONVENIENCE.
If you run into a survivor team "gen rushing", there's no such thing. What the $#@# else is a survivor going to do, walk around and admire your skin? The alternative, is I work on a different generator... or maybe i try to helpout a teammate in chase or maybe I decide I'll spread my gen progress of 60 seconds on 1 generator and another 60 seconds on another generator. At the end of the day, I've still spent 120 seconds fixing cumulative 2 generators whether its 90 / 30 or 60 / 60.
At least the killer has the option to go chase / kill someone else.
Yes, the killer is the literal driving force of whether or not survivors have fun. You can't play a game of Tag, without someone being "IT".
If as a killer, what motivates you is the giggles/joy you get from tunneling and ruining a single survivors experience because you tunneled them knowing good and well how they'll feel about it, then i recommend you take a long look in the mirror and reassess yourself as a person.
Counter argument is, yes you can tunnel to remove an entire person to achieve victory and has always been the foundation of every competitive killer to make a comeback, Behavior needs to fix this.
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There are so many solutions to tunneling, or different game mode changes that ill do the job for the product managers here at behavior interactive (I'm looking at you Jerome).
- Remove notification triggers when survivor is unhooked. If there's no "notification trigger", then the killer who stepped away for a second is less likely to be "reminded" to go back.
- Add a "reward" for spreading the hooks, some examples include... expanding the killers FOV the more range of hooks the killer gets across survivors and call it (killers resolve or killers wrath). Another example... if you hook a different survivor, introduce a base kit bonus to the next time you damage a generator, it grants X% bonus penalty, make it snowball if you have to to entice killers to spread hooks so it balances the time you've lost looking for a new survivor.
- Create a perk or built-in ability that allows a survivor to "trade" hook phases from a survivor. Add a condition where it's only usable if base-kit BT is active (10 seconds) from a recent unhook and the tunneled survivor is within terror radius or chase. The trigger for the perk should be like "reassurance", where it's usable from a distance. Call the perk or base-kit ability "Humanities Sacrifice" or "True Altruism" OR make it an item you can use long range. That way, the killer still retains their "tunneling progress", but it allows survivors prolong their ultimate demise under "tunneled conditions".
- Killers seem to complain about "gen rushing". How about you introduce a new game mode or modify existing game modes so that it's not solely around "repairing generator" but treat it like Friday the 13th game, where survivor must "locate items and parts" to BUILD a generator or an escape item. Some examples include, finding X# of different chests or items scattered around the map. Alter existing perks to increase the time or effort to "pick up" the item. OR if you have to reuse code for generators, make it so that survivors have to build a generator and then repair it. The kicker.... the killer cannot see the location of the building generator(s). If you're worried about killers tunnelling the generator being worked on, survivors can find more parts around the map to build another generator around the map. Make it so the killer cannot see the location of the generator. They must first find it. However, the survivors have to continue running around the map to continue to find "parts" to build another generator. This makes the game more "cat and mouse" and puts more thrill in the chase.
- Add a timer for survivors who are getting hooked "back-to-back" and increase their chance to "unhook" themselves based on the built in timer logic. For example... (Time spent between getting unhooked + immediately being in terror radius or chase again equates to bonus +% to self-unhook).
- Grant tunneled survivors a chance to self-unhook on 2-phase and give free invisibility like Spirits power. Use the code you have around Spirit's invisibility as the framework for survivors and call it "camouflage" and give them temporary 100% iron will. Call it "entity fair play". In return for the killer... grant them a separate incentive such as... "entity respawn"; force a random generator on the map to change locations, OR allow the killer to respawn on the map in a random location OR
- Add a new item or perk that allows user to REMOVE A HOOK PHASE, make it only applicable to two phase hook survivors who are back-to-back downed. To balance it for killers, add a item or perk that instantly puts survivor on 2 phase hook but the conditions are based around tunneling and the survivor has to have 0 hooks.
- Make it so that killers cannot hook the person that just got off-hook, and call it "hook sickness" but in return the entity marks the altruistic survivor or highlights them to encourage fresh chase. Create the condition around FOV and terror radius. If you go after the same recently unhooked survivor, and are immediately in chase with them within X time (I'll let you define the conditions), then it will allow you to down them, but you cannot pick them up for X seconds. This creates opportunity for another survivor to come to get them off dying state.
- Tunneled survivors who are downed within X amount of time, cannot be picked-up to be hooked again. Call it "Killer's Fatigue", and make it so that if you down the same survivor within X seconds from a recent unhook, you cannot pick them from dying state for X amount of time (whatever you deem balanced). But, make it so it takes 2x more recovery in order to get back up and call it "Critical Injury".
- Make it so that killers who tunnel survivors lose points and makes it extremely difficult to rank up through that method of killing.
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3/5 games lights-out games are legion killers, which just ruins the game mode
Behavior, at least remove the HUD for killers so they struggle to find hooks
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Give us a killer bot queue gaming option, problem solved.
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Chuckie is overpowered, as a survivor and minor killer (I own alien, onryo, etc.) - he has the strength of multiple killers with little downside.
- He is the size of a Oompa Loompa, and his red stain is impossible to see when his stealth ability is active, but when he goes into his "scamper" mode, it's removed.
- He gets 3rd person FOV, he should have a 1st person FOV, just like alien crawling. If chuckie gets the benefit of being hidden in a loop for mindgames, then survivor has to be given a counterplay option.
- He has essentially Weskers charge that can be zig-zagged - it's already bad enough that he can close the distance so quickly but add in a short cooldown, walk under pallets or fly over windows. The cooldown needs to be increased because he closes the gap instantly even if you successfully dodge.
- Chuckie also benefits from the best stealth plays with his global incognito. His laughter audio doesn't help survivors, he's already within 8m or charge lunge range by the time that even triggers.
tldr; chuckie has the strength of every killers focus e.g. wesker and ghostface, but on steroids. He 1000% needs a nerf or give survivors counterplay measures.
If you're not going to nerf him, bring back standard boon healing, iron will 100% and dead hard in any wound state. See how the killers like that.
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Your roadmap is missing Nerf Chuckie
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Bumping this thread
Yeah Chuckie is overpowered, but I guess Behavior is trying to get people to buy Chuckie for the re-release of the movie and keep him beyond S-tier.
- His charge cooldown is too quick and you can zig zag it, it's a better version of Wesker's lunge
- Not only can he "Slide" over a pallets, but he can still use his charge after sliding, essentially eliminating pallet play. Chuckie should not be able to trigger "charge" after already using a slide ability.
- He's very difficult to blind, especially when at distance, depending on the angle, his eyes are covered by the pallet. This creates a delay of 1-2 seconds which is lost distance management.
- His height and his bloodstain is so tiny it's nearly non-existent. It would be agreeable if they made his bloodstains larger or reduce his m/s that aligns with his physical size. I don't know too many toddlers... moving faster than an Adult.
- His 3rd party FOV makes it nearly impossible to sneak plays
- He has a global incognito power
If you itemize all his abilities versus Survivors counter-play options, you've effectively eliminated all options.
- Looping, Holding W, or spotting him or distance management from terror radius reads for stealth play.
To give killers perspective, imagine introducing an Oompa Loompa survivor from Willy Wonka Chocolate Factory. A 2ft survivor, but let's give him no audio when wounded, fake directional footsteps, and ability to always fast vault windows and pallets without perks AND instant sprint bursts (without perk) after every vault. That's what Chuckie is built currently.
Either give SURVIVORS a Oompa Loopa S-Tier Survivor or nerf chuckie. I will gladly pay for the Oompa Loompa.
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Hi has there been any updates on this? I was just in a game with Cenobite and there is no timer resetting the box after Cenobite finds it for over 4-5 minutes.
Reproduction Steps 1
- Play as survivor against Cenobite
- Cenobite finds box OR downs you while you are holding box
- Infinite chains begins
- Let timer run for 4-5 minutes without survivors interacting with box
Repro Steps 2
- Play as survivor against Cenobite
- Cenobite downs you while you are holding box
- Infinite chains begins
- Survivor finds box and attempts to solve
- Cenobite downs survivor again
- Timer continues for infinite duration
Note, Cenobite does not need to ever teleport to reset the timer and as a result it makes the game unplayable for survivors. Cannot heal or fix gens while infinite gens is occurring for duration of game.
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You know what would make this game way better - choosing to play against a human killer or a bot killer. Killers of course can choose to play against bots or humans as well.
If my hypothesis is correct, the killers need human survivors more than the survivors need human killers.
Balance the game Behavior.
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I get Behavior is trying to maximize sales with the Chuckie IP. However, he has too many advantages that doesn't scale to his true killer nature.
- His red stain size needs to be significantly larger that scales with a normal killer. His advantage is already his height, and he currently has a 3rd person FOV, so there's no downsize for being short.
- If you won't expand his stain size, then the killer FOV must scale to his physical size. He's a 1.5ft size doll, his FOV should scale to a 1.5 foot doll. If survivors can't find him, it should be similar disadvantage to be a short killer. Short Kings can't just jump into the NBA and start dunking, sorry.
- His lunge could use a minor tweak, it's basically a better version of Weskers charge or lower his base m/s to 4.3.
- Introduce a survivor with anti-chuckie perks or buff the ones that work against him, such as "Scene Partner".
I would shell out money to counter OP killers just as much as I would do buy OP killers. So, Behavior get your ######### together, survivors are a 4-1 ratio. Would be curious to know from your data who spends more money, survivors or killers. I play both but at a 3-1 ratio (survivor to killer).
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Playing against chuckie is like having having to go against OddJob from 007 Golden Eye with a golden gun. Except you get slappers.
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@Seraphor said:
So when the Tail attack can be easily dodged and missed attacks slow the Xeno down for long enough to escape, and the Tail attack is no better or worse than the Special attack from other killers like Demo, Nemo, etc.
...what will be the point of Turrets?
Why would a mediocre Special attack need a counter that removes the killer's ability to use it entirely?
Why would survivors need to waste time interacting with Turrets when they can just dodge the Tail attack?
Tail attack is supposed to be unforgiving, so that survivors are pressured to use Turrets, so that Xeno doesn't have 100% uptime. Yet Turrets have to be counterable, otherwise Xeno's power would have 0% uptime like Singularity.
To argue your points....
- It is not a mediocre attack, you're giving it a biological ranged gun, bolt-action.
- Turrets should still be used to pull it out of stealth and it's crouch stance. Why bother having stealth specialty killers or only handful of killers default crouch, when for example.. Ghostface for suffers from a 3.x m/s reduction when he moves crouched. The Xeno gets it free at full speed.
- The Alien has the strengths of 3+ killers combined. Onryo, Michael Meyers, Deathslinger. It can camouflage, (black), stealth crouch, cross map travel, gen pressure and chase ability.... As a matter of fact... "It is the perfect killing machine" ( - Michael Fassbender in Alien:Covenant).
If not nerf the tail whip, buff the turret. Give survivors a reasonable counter-measure. Every killer has a weakness. The Xeno does not. The current option is a well-lit candle that I have to go pick-up at Yankee Candle and then decide where I want it in my room. Do I go with Sea Breeze or maybe Autumn Spiced Apple?
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@jarjargist21 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3530894#Comment_3530894
Ok for one the you sound like entitled survivors so whatever I say doesn't even matter to you
For two instead of evolving with the game and actually playing to improve your game you rather cry because the game isn't set for your side.
For three it's easy to make the killer miss his tail hit as it's a narrow line. It's honestly on you for staying at a loop when the killer is in crawler mode.
The turrets do help as it gets the killer out of his power. Also placing the turrets are more important then placing them by a gen they also tell you when the xenomorph is near.
I play killer 25% of the time and I have ran Xeno and it is really overpowered - I'm just Tail Whipping over loop terrain and if it's in pallet drop distance, regardless if they fake it or not, it's a instant tail whip shot because the distance between the gap to get stunned by it and faking it cannot stop the length of it's current projectile.
If you argue "well then duck" - the graphic delay to duck and stand up and run against is lost travel time between the survivor and the xeno. Currently, there is minimal to no tail whip delay, so survivor cannot create distance on killer mistakes. If anything you lose distance to crouch and stand back up and initiate run again - requires more time distance loss for a missed tail whip because the killer is still holding W.
If you argue "well Turrets help" but the time return for setting up and then the movement impairment for carrying one and placement restrictions cause so much wasted time. Ontop of that, they are limited and they have to burn the alien long enough to remove the tail ability which is like 3 seconds of constant burn.
If you want first-hand experience, run survivor and I'll be happy to 1:1 you in a private lobby and track the actual survival time you can actual stay up. I assure you - it won't be 90 seconds net total from 3 hook chases.
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Tail needs a nerf, I own Xeno but main survivor and after playing as and against Xenomorph - that Tail Whip just sucks the fun out of both sides.
You can't loop against Xeno, and the tail whip has little to no punishment for missing. The fire turrets take so much time to setup just to prevent a tail whip that the return is not there. You can't even out run it lol and if Xeno misses, you lose maybe step distance.
At least create a larger delay if Xeno misses or make the tail aim more difficult to control. Quite frankly, it's like having a golden gun in 007
Also fire doesn't do ENOUGH stagger, just got out of a game and the xeno tanked it enough to kill the turret and still have tail whip LOL.
Increase the number of turrets available and remove the stupid movement impairment for setting it up
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@pizzaduffyhp90 said:
The perk is still solid now I don't think it needs to be reverted back to it's old self.
Out of 10 games a day, I don't see a single survivor selecting this perk.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430203#Comment_3430203
A headset is not able to isolate specific sounds. A headset will only make all sounds louder which means if you are by ambient noises, you'll still be harder to detect. Basically it forces you to play smarter.
Unless you're playing on speakers or a really crappy headset, most headsets can isolate specific sounds and if the audio is coming from the left or right side of you.
Moaning and footsteps are easily distinguishable in DBD with the exception if a player is running around a burning camp fire.
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@Crowman said:
75% already reduces the range of which killers can realistically hear survivors. Which is fair, because survivors shouldn't be able to stand next to the killer and be unheard.
Disagree - every killer that plays this uses headsets so 75% noise reduction is useless. Every horror movie has a "survivor" who hides their audio while hiding under a bed or closet. What kind of survivor runs around moaning like they're in porno?
However, you can vote and the polls will decide
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confident it was timed perfectly i saw the animation
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@Little_Kitten said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3268047#Comment_3268047
The fact that a nurse wins against a group of survivors on a single game is not a proof that she is "too strong"; again, you can very well, with the same build, and on the same map, fall once on survivors as good as potatoes, and the second time, on survivors playing so well that they will make you doubt your own abilities.
@Little_Kitten said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3268047#Comment_3268047
The fact that a nurse wins against a group of survivors on a single game is not a proof that she is "too strong"; again, you can very well, with the same build, and on the same map, fall once on survivors as good as potatoes, and the second time, on survivors playing so well that they will make you doubt your own abilities.
I was responding to this https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3267107#Comment_3267107 - the fact that this user quoted as saying "of course you're gonna steamroll your first matchups you have no MMR. I can do the same thing with a never touched hag or trapper." - The argument is not only a single case study of my performance; the very notion that this commentary exists enforces that the NOTION or STEREOTYPE that the game is currently imbalanced towards killers and especially lower MMR tiers is evidence. You're argument of saying a group of "big brain or competent survivors" can win a single game against a nurse is neither proof that "good nurses can be beaten". However...
So when you look at the bigger picture; looking at Sept 2022 kill rates here https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/350586/stats-kill-rate-by-killer-and-mmr-september-2022
The compilation of the data above of both our arguments... big brain survivor teams wins vs skilled nurse wins - data shows that the skilled nurse will win significantly more. 62% kill rate at top 5% MMR - this also does not consider the friendly "skilled killers" who let the 4th survivor escape by choice or the lucky break of a hatch spawning near them in a dominating killer game. While the counter argument which you're thinking is "but there's friendly survivors that will willingly give up a death for a poor performing Nurse". I find that the volume of that is significantly lower than the latter.
Nothing is ever 100%, yes a good team can win against a good nurse, and vice versa - but statistically the evidence of imbalance is the number of occurrences against survival team win rate vs killer win rate/kill rate.
If the ideal goal is to have a 50% survival rate across all killers; which imo is 2 kills / 2 escapes; then there is statistically a gap and a bias for killers (ALL) today.
TLDR; the mechanics of nurse today eliminates the majority of mechanical options a survivor has to survive. The maximum skill ceiling options a survivor has available to them to survive against the maximum skill ceiling of a nurse is arguably 1-2 step difference. The best of the best survivors vs the best of the best nurse, my money is on nurse 9/10 times in the current patch or state of the game. This has a trickle down effect which i will illustrate below.
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Bad Nurse is equal to Bad Survivors
Average Survivors is greater than Bad Nurse
Average Nurse is greater than Average Survivors
Above Average Survivors is greater than Average Nurse
Pro Nurse is greater than an Above Average Survivors
Pro Nurse is greater than Pro Survivors (Shown Statistically)
The balancing act that needs to happen is to limit the ceiling on nurse so it can even out across all skill levels.
Remember this is a game about quite metaphorically... Shooting/Killing Fish in a Barrel. You are hunting humans that have no ability to physically stop you short of hiding, running, or dropping pallet a freaking pallet. If the intention or goal of BHVR for this game was to ALWAYS BE BIASED towards killers, then BHVR should make that very clear.
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@PigMainBigBrain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3267107#Comment_3267107
Bruh...you picked up a never touched nurse....of course you're gonna steamroll your first matchups you have no MMR. I can do the same thing with a never touched hag or trapper. Play until the survivors have a brain, and then come back to tell us about your prodigal no scopes.
I mean that's not fair to survivors either way, that implies low MMR killer vs. low MMR survivors is expected to get steam rolled - that's just not a good experience for new survivors and adds evidence to why a nerf is necessary
But yes, happy to continue to steam roll with nurse up the ranks; also there's a reason why she still kills at 62% rate at the top 5% elo
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3267107#Comment_3267107
To be fair, I've done that with Clown. By itself, that doesn't prove anything. One of the points I was making, and I'm not saying that you're doing this, is that saying Nurse needs a nerf is an opinion and not a fact. There is an excellent discussion, however, started by @Iron_Cutlass in Feedback that is, at least as of yesterday, discussing what people think of proposed changes to Nurse. Post ideas here about it if you like of course but I'm just mentioning the other thread as it's focused on recommendations like yours.
Of course you can play devil's advocate and argue any point with personal case studies. However the very fact that this thread exists and those like it exists more often than nearly every killer (for example you will seldom or if at all a "nerf thread" about TWINS); reinforces that a nerf should more likely than not occur. However, yes for this to be healthy conversation there needs to be fair recommendations on what changes should be made. I actually have a few more that came to mind that I personally think would level her out. Here's a potential list of options (not all should be applied, may be cherry pick 1 or 2).
- Further reduce her base movement speed
- Her lunge attack post 1st and/or 2nd blink should have a range reduction similar to Tier 1 Michael Meyers
- Reduce her max blink range
- Greater delay between being able to chain a second blink
- Remove second chain blink option completely or require a burnable item to enable it
- Increase the cooldown or reduce the recharge speed for blink (its wicked fast; I can 2x blink against after wounding a survivor within a couple seconds).
- Audio deafness during blink charge up or post blink for X seconds
- Extend nurse sickness post blink or post-wounding a survivor by an additional 1.5 - 2 seconds. A Survivor getting hit by nurse should be able to effectively buy as much time equivalent to being chased by a 4.6 m/s killer without blink. The allotted time that a regular killer that needs to catch back up to the survivor should be calculated in the Blink time and distance the nurse should be allowed to follow-up in the chase.
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75% Survivor / 25% Killer
Reasons for Survivor:
- It feels like I'm playing in a horror movie and I try to avoid mistakes a dumb actor or extra would that costs them their lives in the movie.
- Feels like it has comradery when playing with others
- It's a challenge that forces you to improve your ability to remain calm and collected which improves your skills, and your ability to manage your emotion - which yields better decision making.
Reasons for Killer:
- To understand from their perspective the challenges they have when facing off against survivors. Allows me to understand each killers weakness by playing in their shoes - which I can use against them when I play survivor.
- Sometimes to replicate a horror movie or to get a SCARE out of someone e.g. Michael Meyers or Ghost Face (I enjoy scaring people)
- To meet complete a challenge for bloodpoints when I get bored with survivor
- To mentally argue a point with myself and what I read on forums on why something is imbalanced.
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I just played against a nurse who was toxic, typical "eeeezzz" comments. So I logically ask, how about you play survivor and I play nurse? You can even recruit a team of survivors against my nurse (who I haven't touched in months AND im running yellow perks. He refuses. So I figure let's see how well I do in a solo queue..
- Nurses Calling (Yellow)
- Thanatophobia (Yellow)
- Fearmonger (Yellow)
- I'm all Ears (Yellow)
Map = Crotus Prenn Asylum
Items: In fairness I ran green heavy painting and green ataxic respiration.
Steam rolled 4K, 3 dead w/ 4 gens still up; so I cool it off and let survivor get hatch.
TLDR; Even a scrub pub (PC player) who mains survivor can pick-up nurse and steam roll. Yes. She needs a nerf.
Recommendations: I find that without audio cues, it is definitely difficult to follow-up blink - I recommend that she goes "audio deaf" during the fatigue or permanent reduction to sounds e.g. she shouldn't be allowed to hear footsteps or give survivors a perks that mute movement sound for X seconds...
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I tried this while not in mending state - in a normal wounded state; I see the "endurance" effect award process in my top right screen, but i was still downed
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This patch ruined the game for survivors, I'm leaving until they fix this. Brought a competent 4 man team that use to win all the time... to The Game with 3x Tool Boxes and Brand New Parts and still got steam rolled by a Spirit. The why...
- Iron Will is effectively useless, any killer with a headset can trace sounds (footsteps, breathing, loud moaning now) EASILY, spirits just teleport and trace without a beat now.
- The additional 10 seconds per gen, which effectively passively impacts variety of other perks to 13+ seconds due such as Thanatophobia
- Jolt is absolutely crushing regression now ontop of it
- No dead hard to make plays anymore
If you're argument is that there's a "passive 5 second BT", that barely offsets face camping or tunneling. Which happened before anyways, what is 5 seconds when you have another 1-2+ minutes of gen time to do.
Statistically, before the patch I was escaping with at least 1+ survivor at a pretty standard pace maybe out of 10 games, 5-5 escape to death ratio. Post patch, with a discord team, 3-14, and one of those wins was maybe a killer just messing around.
Not only that, the number of "mercy" escapes from killers I have seen skyrocketed post-patch - the fact that killers are "mercy escaping" survivors is a testament to the imbalance.
It's really simple to balance this game, take the data you have on number of survivor escapes and deaths per game and balance it so there's a 2-2 escape to death ratio. Take this data by killer and adjust perks accordingly to balance.
Also, I play as killer on the side, and I went 5-0 (Oni w/ AOT skin, Meyers, Trickster), 4 kill, 4 kill, 4 kill, 3 kill, 4 kill. It's a breeze in the park... especially as a PC gamer.
If you also noticed the queue time for killers have gone up, its also evidence that people don't want to play survivor... which speaks to the lack of balance and fun.
I'm retiring from DBD until they fix this.
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1000% percent agree - 75% does nothing, i run killer and survivor and i hear everything...