terumisan
terumisan
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@ImperatorHaze said:
I've seen a lot of people complaining about each role and what they feel like needs to be buffed/nerfed for the game to be more enjoyable. A lot of players on both sides do not consider newer players when asking for things to be improved nor have they played the other side.
So please answer the following only if you have played the other side (I'm talking about more than once). Do provide holistic answers to account for new players, not just what you think would be good for your matches. Keep in mind new players are not at the same skill level as you.
Survivor Mains: What is one buff, and one nerf you would add to Killers?
Killer Mains: What is one buff, and one nerf you would add to Survivors?
Please provide an answer for both a buff and a nerf. We all know survivors want tunneling/slugging nerfed and killers want gen speeds and perks nerfed. Do not answer with 'Nothing' - you came to the forum to discuss the game, so discuss. If you can provide long-winded comments and discussions as to why your side deserves a buff, then you can provide a one sentence answer for the opposite side.
for survivors all gen progression perks get nerfed into the ground and the survivors cannot enhance gen speed beyond the base values
buff smoke grenades have unlimited charges with ptb level power
killer every unique hook gives mapwide 75% TOTAL regression to all gens
previous nerf
nerf nurse ghoul krasue blight get nerfed
current nerf gen regression perks cannot stack
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@MoZo said:
on live servers, the anti camp is 16 meters, on the ptb it was increased to 20 and a lot of people apparently claimed it was really unfair and somehow made camping more punishing for killers that would walk by when they literally decreased the base fill rate by 50% to compensate but ok. now, the devs have reverted the range back to 16 meters for live. my question is why couldn’t we try 18 meters?
i was playing some solo q last night and was really eying how far the 16 meter anti camp is and holy sh!t it is a very small amount of distance. can we please test 18 meters?its so easy to cheese the anti camp radius when its 16 meters. especially if the hook is in a good area for the killer to lock down multiple entries to said hook. at the very least in the ptb, killers were at a risk for trying to camp and proxy because the radius was big enough. now we are back to multiple killers being able to force trades or go down before the unhook even happens.
edit: before anyone comes in a says “it’s called anti-face camp, not anti camp so it’s doing its job” i will just say now, face camping has been dead. and these changes the devs were trying to do were to address proxy camping.
20m is huge distance it's 2m more than deathslinger can hit you
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it's broken against good survivors and bad survivors will still be bad
it is more handholding and is still a guarenteed escape at endgame bit even easier now
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@Lemongrab2001 said:
Really dont understand why the anti slugging update has be scrapped ive just got into my first game and lasted for 10 minutes, 5 minute loop of the blight, got hooked, got unhooked, immediatley came back ignore who unhooked me, downs me instantly, hooks me again, i get unhooked, manage to run to basement to try to heal, blight enters basement looks at my mate then looks at me downs me and kills me, BOOM game over. The anti slugging/tunneling update was needed, behaviour needs to stop listening to the killer mains crying over the fact that they cant forcus all their effort on one person and blaintantly ignore other, playing one more game and if its the same im 100% uninstalling
how many gens were done in that 5 minute chase?
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@Laurie268 said:
Survivors just want their hand held… it's not like killers are stopping them from playing the game by slugging/camping. We gotta do everything to keep their winrate at 80%, screw the 4 out of 5 players you need to able to even start a match
The only reason killers want slugging and camping to stay in the game is because it's an easy way to win for them. Something to fall back to once the match is starting to turn against them while survivors don't even have that anymore, we had old keys and hatch but killer mains thought that was too unbalanced but ending matches at 5 gens because of slugging is balanced??
I'm not exaggerating when I say soloQ is mental torture, between the high mobility killers like blight/hillbilly and nurse (that's still a thing after 9 years btw) and teammates that are just playing around instead of doing gens though who can blame them? People play games to relax and have fun and DBD is now the exact opposite of that all because of your choices. You HAVE to sweat and bring your best build if you want to escape and even then, your chances are quite slim. Once the killer has some pressure it's basically over for survivors, there are no comeback mechanics no nothing. Anti gen perks are oppressive as hell, if the killer is already snowballing they add even more to the injury and if the killer is doing bad they do nothing. If you want the game to last more than a couple years from now, you have to make unbiased changes that are best for both sides WITHOUT rolling back anything.
Both sides want their side to be at the top and it's up to you to decide what changes are fair and which make one side unbearable to play which I sadly think is an impossible task for you. You had 9 years to balance the game and we're still dealing with the same unbalanced crap, I really wish I never started playing DBD
so if slugging is such a problem why not swap out slippery or dead hard or ds or iron will with unbreakable or exponential or something to pick yourself up?
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@The_Count said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4030344#Comment_4030344
I prefer a basekit Pain Res for rotating hooks which would do more or less regression depending of the killer you're playing.
What you suggest seems quite the crap we currently have for 2v8 that survs are abusing AF RN.i'm fine with this and even suggested it in the feedback changes but just like in there it has to be 50% or an extremely high TOTAL (very important wording) regression for it to be worth it along with floods level aura reading
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@ratcoffee said:
I know the devs said it feels "hand holdy" or whatever, but between all the big content creators who have said they think that was the way to go (Scott Jund, Otzdarva, OhTofu, SpooknJukes, etc) I think it's fair to say that implementing such a system and tweaking the activation conditions (e.g. activates on a kill without 4-5 hooks instead of 6) would be a solid way of admitting they were out of touch while trying to address both the things that make Killers feel they need to tunnel and the things that make seeing your teammate tunneled as Survivor particularly helpless.
you can't have the anti tunnel punishment system at all since it makes survivors too strong and it's too abusable and you have to tweak it into uselessness like the anti hiding/dc changes and at that point you might as well scrap the idea
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@BongoBoys said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029828#Comment_4029828
The power creep would be insane the goal should be B or A Tier for killers as a fair and proper balance
i'm fine with the average killer being buffed to a tier then s tiers get nerfed in that order
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@MechWarrior3 said:
We are focused on health updates but still waiting for health updates?
We have a DC system in place but yet people are dcing like crazy?
We have a go next prevention but people dc out of it anyways?The abandon system feels….weird…like a get out of jail free card every single time?
I’m genuine confused. I mean it with sincerity and respect. What are we doing? Why does this all feel so messy? The other anti mechanics haven’t hit live yet and I think that might add to more of my confusion… 😅
i thought the dc penalty was adjusted to the point where it did nothing?
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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029828#Comment_4029828
That's a lot more work than it seems. How do you buff/rework a lot of the lower tier killers in a way that they don't become super frustrating to play against? People already don't really like clown so how do you change him in a way to be better? Because believe it or not in his current state he's not much different than before the started changing his bottle values.
tbh besides number buffs i can't figure out a way
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@GentlemanFridge said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029845#Comment_4029845
Giving him basekit Corrupt opens up a whole other can of worms, 'cause that's a rather strange mechanic to include as part of a killer power.
Trapper gets basekit Corrupt. That's a perk that he gets basekit. That will inevitably result in players asking for other perks to become basekit for other killers as well. Maybe include some aspects of the classes from 2v8? And who gets what? Should all killers get their buffs from 2v8? But that leaves Trapper behind again, because he wasn't that much stronger in 2v8, comparatively speaking.
All that to say, it really isn't that simple.
'Sides, that would still not put him anywhere near Blight's overall strength.
what i meant about basekit corrupt is all killers getting it not just trapper since in 6.1 they added it going away when a killer downs a survivor
tbf
>will inevitably result in players asking for other perks to become basekit for other killers as well. Maybe include some aspects of the classes from 2v8? And who gets what? Should
allkillers get their buffs from 2v8this applies to survivors constantly with the devs keep making perks basekit and fog vials (the original busted ptb ver) were just modified event items
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@GentlemanFridge said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029828#Comment_4029828
Cause then the powercreep gets even worse.
Moreover, how? How could Trapper come even remotely close to the same strength as Blight, without also completely revamping the power?
they could make the resetting traps basekit buff his setting speed have him have all traps at the start and give him more traps have corrupt basekit (should've been base at 6.1.0) so they get in his web easier
this is just ideas i had when i played trapper occasionally
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@GentlemanFridge said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029738#Comment_4029738
Firstly, that wasn't me making the suggestion. I'm not the OP.
Secondly, there are other killers than Blight, and they must be viable as well. If Blight is allowed to remain significantly more powerful than the other killers, the game's balance overall has to accomodate for that skewed strength, which causes older killers to be left behind. This is typically referred to as power creep. The older killers (Trapper being an extreme example on the opposite end) cannot compete in the current state of the game, partially because Blight and other S-tiers have raised the standard of what balance even means.
If we nerf Blight, thus bringing him closer to other killers, we can more accurately gauge what the actual balance is. From there, we can -theoretically- make more blanket changes that affect all killers, whilst hopefully not disproportionally buffing Blight too.
Remember that balance actually does not mean that you win all your matches. It means that you can have a reasonable chance at winning.
why not buff the lower tier to the strength of blight
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no? killers have a very strict timetable as it is and all that sounds like is swf buffs
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@JesusWept said:
So for example, why is Ghostface considered a weak killer compared to Blight who is considered a strong killer?
This might be a stupid question but it could lead to an interesting discussion which gives people a greater understanding to the killer power disparity.
blight has better mobility and also it's really easy to reveal ghostface and comms make it way harder for him
the #1 reason why there is a massive killer disparity is because of all the nerfs to gen slowdown, killers in general getting nerfed, survivors constantly getting buffed (through perks or basekit changes) and killer anti heal getting nerfed
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terrible idea what happens if the killer gets reworked or nerfed into oblivion? also twins (while having low mobility) is an a to s tier killer depending on who you ask. people just never see her since she's buggy
i'd rather killers just have blanket buffs
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@OldHunterLight said:
This is becoming the most boring tactic that survivors do now.
Hold shift and W, pre drop pallets rinse and repeat.
This is dbd on 2021, at least before with infinites they played that tile.
Not anymore.
Please devs do something about that.
kaneki counters shift w and survivors hate him for it
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@random1543 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4028760#Comment_4028760
That's just false and if you've played the game for more then a few minutes in soloq you would know that. it don't tell us if someone is afk, it don't tell us if a killer is proxy camping a hook, it don't tell us things like "don't come for save i have deliverance" making certain perks more useful in swf then solo q.
the hud was a good minimum change that was needed but they need something like a comm wheel with pre made messages.i mainly played solo and the main reason solo sucks is your teammates are garbage
when i play survivor i look at the hud while i do gens (since i have nothing better to do) while one person is getting chased the other 2 aren't doing a gen and doing something completely unrelated (like a totem or wandering looking for something) and then the killer snowballs
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@sulaiman said:
Whenever there are changes in balance, there are a lot of complaints, from both sides.
Recently the topic was on tunneling and camping, and i heard agruments from content creators, that dont really resonate with me. They say that tunneling and camping is boring to them as well, but in order to win it is needed, and if the killer plays differently, he might lose.
So the question that rose in me about balance was, what to balance for, and that, i have several questions to killer mains, so i might understand it better. (i mayself play both sides, sometimes more killer, sometimes more survivor, but due to known issues survivor is no longer fun)
- If a match had survivors and a killer of equal skill, what should the outcome of such a match be (on average)?
- Do you think this outcome could be reached now without tunneling and camping?
- Should the game be balanced toward such outcome, and whatever it should or shouldnt, why? To what goal should the game be balanced?
- If that outcome can be reached without tunneling and camping, but doing so increase the chance of winning on the killer side, should or should that not be taken into account for balance-purposes?
- Should the game be balanced around tunneling or camping, or should that be ignored?
- How should kill and escape rate look like if the game where balanced around skill?
Playing both sides i have some Idea what balance should look like, but maybe i am just wrong, since the devs also seem to disagree with me. So, what are your opinions on this?
Edit: bonus question: at what point in the match should the matches outcome be forseeable?
1 average is a coin toss on whoever has more skill (but this game is balanced in a way where the average survivor fails at do gens and catering to them so on average it's killer that's more skilled)
2 in the higher end where it's all good players and survivors that know how to focus on gens and usually their on comms it's impossible w/o canping and tunneling since that's the only way to reliably create pressure
3 my opinion is the game should always lean slightly in the favor of killer (since there are 4 survivors to 1 killer and the killer can only be in one place at one time barring exceptions)
4 if a killer can't camp or tunnel how is the killer supposed to generate pressure? since there are 5 gens and 4 survivors (3 that just do gens if they're competent) so they can complete they're objective faster if you gave survivors base unbreakable (always a terrible idea since survivors can just leave that person on the ground since they can pick themselves up) the killer gets put into lose/lose situations like flip flop/power struggle or a survivor just hovering while the slugged is under a pallet while the others are on gens so either the killer commits to the suvivor hovering (leading to a free escape) or trying to commit or at least hovering around the slug (so the hoverer has a better chance at the save but can't pressure anywhere else)
5 the game should just leave tunneling and camping alone it's been in the game for years and is has been a valid strategy for years
6 can you elaborate more? is this with the basekit survivor buffs being stripped? it's current state now? or a reset?
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you already have a hud that gives swf levels of information can we just say survivors are terrible and can't read a hud
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@Skeleton23 said:
Please give ur Killer feedback on why would you uninstall the game and fill free to give experiences and Opinions.
This is a Judge free Zone and will be reported if a fight on Opinions begin. Please be respectful
they've been buffing survivors constantly since 6.1.0 and survivors need to have crippling nerfs in order to go back to being balanced or at least more fair
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the answer is survivors
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it's escaping sincethe killer's objective is to kill
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@coldflame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4025478#Comment_4025478
zanshin does not even remotely do this
you're right i misread it doesn't show the number of pallets
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@LordLazeris said:
Every new update reduces killer variety. I'm facing nothing but the sweatiest nurses, ghouls and blights. I'm not surprised.
blame survivor buffs gen regression nerfs and pallet buffs for that
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no they just removed legion and screwed whoever likes playing them and the bad killers are still bad
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@coldflame said:
Pallet numbers have been going up a lot over the last couple of years, and now it's finally been punctuated with the big update. People have plenty of thoughts in either direction, which isn't what this thread is about.
What's almost undeniably true, though, is that dealing with what feels like an infinite number of pallets as a killer feels bad, especially as ones who don't really have an answer to them.
My pitch- give the killer a pallet UI. It shows them how many are left on the map. Every drop and break then feels like tangible progress towards improving their odds, and the number of pallets feels less infinite. even in a really, really bad game, getting juiced for a couple of minutes doesn't feel quite as frustrating and hopeless if you put a little dent in the pallet number.
this doesn't give the killer any meaningful information advantage, they already know every time a pallet is destroyed.
zanshin does that and it doesn't really help when you spawn into pallet town
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4025352#Comment_4025352
For killer it helps you see survivors very far and its definitely more better sor survivor because many loops are super hardcore for the killer to mind game especialy like those jungle gyms and many other loops on grrenvile (unknown or fryddys maps) because those planks have small spaces between and with good reshade you can see killers redstain like it would be flashlight in night time its so discusting advantage that shouldnt be allowed for both sides survivors get huge help in chase and killers get easier time to spot survivors across the map.
i still consider it cheating since there is a massive difference between using it and not using to the point where the game looks completely different with how much reshade affects the game
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@SOULWARRIOR71K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4022150#Comment_4022150
survivors currently lose 60% of the time. By cripple do you mean make it so it’s next to impossible for survivors to win or nah?
yep because the game is supposed to be harder for them since it's a team of 4 vs 1
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sounds like trash. at bare minimum there should be map wide pain res 50% regression and an aura reading on par with floods for each unique hook for it to be worth it
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@MrBuffalo said:
Obviously i'm not going to name the streamers who use them but every so often I'll go tune into a stream and the person who is streaming is using a reshader. First thing I always notice is how the blood, scratch marks always seem so unbelievably bright which makes it stand even more out of place against the darker floor or walls on maps. Even though they have been listed as "okay" to use by the devs how on earth is this not considered cheating? You are using a 3rd party to artificially make something easier to see.
I really would like to hear some thoughts on this.reshade gives both sides a huge advantage and should be considered cheating since survivors can notice the red stain far before someone who doesn't
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@CrossTheSholf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4023642#Comment_4023642
I kinda miss blendettea
as a survivor it was fun as kikiller it
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4023642#Comment_4023642
But back then you also had the moonlight offerings that made the maps almost pitch black. Especially the MacMillan realm
Yea but even w/o moonlight blendette on some maps was invisible there was a reason why everyone ran p3
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@mecca said:
Tunneling will go nowhere. I thought it was funny they were making the maps brighter so killers can very easily track survivors. The elusive effect is moot and a fake display of effort to address tunneling. They removed the penalties so tunneling will still be an option which clearly means killers will still tunnel.
i gueee you weren't around when blendette was a thingthing
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in order to make to make it balanced you have to cripple the survivor role
all 2nd chance perks and gen progression perk need to be nerfed into oblivion
get rid of the survivor hud
make kindred basekit make babysitter basekit
get rid of basekit bt
buff every killer that weaker than houndmaster up to her level
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@mecca said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4022136#Comment_4022136
I guess you haven't seen decent killers play. It doesn't matter if you are SWF or not, killers will always win.
decent killers can't do anything tho killers are dependent on survivor mistakes and even then not really if they focus on gens since a survivors objective and the killer's aren't equal since the survivors can complete their objective way before a killer can do theirs
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@mecca said:
When killers are the "Power Role" they control the match and are the single variable that determines how the match plays out. It only makes sense to make sure that power is not abused.
BHVR might be finally realizing people hate playing survivor and time to ask about it.
i'd argue it's the opposite since it entirely depends on
1 how competent the survivors are
2 what killer they're against (and even then it doesn't matter)
the reason why i say this is because this game is balanced around survivors being terrible (if the survivors focused on gens there is nothing a killer can do since even before the pallet change gen speed was still too fast) and this gets worse with a swf
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its been that way for a long timetimetimetime
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i feel like this is bait
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@Mandy said:
Off the Record was always on our list for changes, even without the tunneling solutions tested, we were aware on how the perk was able to be weaponised and felt that 80s Endurance was a pretty long length of time, it's part of why when adding it back, we've halved the duration so it is still strong in a situation where a player is being tunneled but it will be in a healthier position which won't allow it to be weaponised in the same way.
so is the pallet buff going to be reverted? since they have otr with 40 seconds plus a ton of pallets hurting all killers especially the non mobile killers
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@DeeBeeDeeAddict said:
Whether it's offering bonus bloodpoints for lesser-played killers, some type of priority queue if people choose to pick a certain killer… I don't know. But going against the same four-ish killers over and over again is monotonous and makes the game boring as hell.
Has anything ever been tried to incentivize more variety in who people choose to play?
buff the low tiers to dark lord level and you'll have variety
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000117#Comment_4000117
So for each fresh hooks every generator on map loses 50 % progress?
50% total progress not current but yea you also have to remove the 8 kick limit too
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@hermitkermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997124#Comment_3997124
Can I ask you to clarify that a bit? Are you referring to strictly high MMR survivor gameplay? If so, what do you feel is a fair escape rate for that top 5% of MMR? Do you feel that 48% is unreasonable?
my competent survivors it does include that 5% but any survivors that figure out that a killers objective and survivors objective aren't the same and rushing gens is the most optimal strategy (basically reading a hud gets you into this tier and a lot of survivors struggle with this)
with how the stats were from my memory it was
solo 38%
4 man 48%
i do want to see it be lowered to what extent idk since a 4 man swf getting that close to 50% is too strong
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@LotusDragonX said:
So normally I don’t think that DBD is survivor sided or killer sided, but I’ve noticed a running pattern that anytime killer mains complain about a survivor perk or mechanic it gets nerfed and when survivors and killers alike complain about something it gets delayed everytime… and I don’t mean the delay on the anti tunneling update cause I watched those lives and that would just be HORRID! But more so how anyone that’s not a Ghoul main complains about him being able to hit through stuff that is otherwise completely solid to all other killers that even have similar skills. I don’t expect any perk buffs because perks aren’t a problem nor his his skill itself- just the fact the skill is clearly buggy and they deny to fix it along with similar traits that are seen in other killers. Also the camping update is NOT what it should be. The camp meter doesn’t even extend past the huntresses BASE throwing range- meaning they can have the huntress base build with no add ons and when partnered with a perk like Insidious it makes it IMPOSSIBLE for a survivor to know that your teammate is being camped until you are actively being hit with her hatchet from NOWHERE. At that point it’s not a skill issue when the survivor has no way to counter the killers invisible aura or their incredible range.
I just want 1 overall mechanic change with anti camping counting when the killer has clear line of sight- not just when they are within your camp meter range, and for mutual requests to be taken into consideration even when a main whines about their favorite killer being buffed. And no, I’m not gonna deny that this has happened with survivors before because it has taken a while for some BROKEN survivor perks to be nerfed- but some of those perks have been nerfed now and there are some killer mechanics that even killers complained about around the same time that have STILL been delayed.
the game is killer sided from low to mid and when you go fron mid to high it's survivor sided
dbd is balanced on survivors being terrible and not figuring out they can easily win by rushing gens and reading a hud and because a killers objective is not equal to the survivors objective a nurse or blight can get a down every chase and still lose because rushing gens is faster
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@Elan said:
→ For each injured survivor, all survivor gets 4 % speed debuff per stack (basekit thana)
→ When the generator is manually kicked or damaged remotely, the regression rate is 0.5ch/s instead of 0.25ch/s (partially basekit call of brine)
→ When two or more survivors work on generators, you see the aura of gen in yellow (basekit discordance)
→ When you hook a survivor, the furthest survivor is revealed to you (basekit alien instinct)
→ When in 16m of completed gen, you have 7 % haste (batteries included basekit)
Opinions?
those would be nice but it isn't enough you need to give base kit map wide pain res with big numbers that only work on fresh hooks
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i didn't feel like reading the wall of text but tunneling and slugging are very necessary for the game at least in the high ranks where they rush gens and it's necessary to create pressure these changes are extremely harmful to the game since they will force the meta to be only top tiers and shouldn't ever be implemented but eventually will
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@Mistfit said:
Bring back old hatch. Not the hatch standoff but the hatch spawns early. Realistically no ones really going to be happy about the changes but I say tweak the current Slugging Update (in terms of numbers) and bring back old hatch
no because all that did was have 4 man key escapes