keepingitril
keepingitril
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2953152#Comment_2953152
Going by how many people are disagreeing with you (every reply) and how many have agreed with you (none) clearly more people want the confirmation to remain than want it taken out (just you) I don't think I've ever seen another topic about this either, personally.
This would be a redundant QoL that would shave off one singular button press, saving less than half a second, that would result in people complaining about accidental quits instead.
I'm not concerned that some anonymous people on a chat forum disagree with me. That's fine. It's a video game - I'm not trying to solve famine or war.
I use a variety of different sorts of software things. In the overwhelming number of cases, when I press quit, it exits.
When someone provides evidence (none provided so far other than heresay and theory) that accidental quits are anything more than a miniscule or less percentage of actual quits and it is actually a genuine concern, then ok.
I'll take the design change (or at least a toggle) that simplifies the overall interaction experience and along with it the risk of accidentally clicking it. If I click the wrong tiny spot, it's on me.
I don't own the game - if it never gets implemented, that's fine and if it gets implemented, that's ok too.
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Just so I am not accused of singling out the quit button...
People have mentioned long load up times.
Can we please get rid of the cinematics and anything else that slows me down getting to the main menu. Put the media on a main menu page if you wish.
I click the game icon. Get me to the main menu in the shortest amount of time. THEN, I'll watch your cinematics at my leisure.
Or have a menu option where I can skip the cinematics.
Or just ditch the cinematics and give me game and character balances.
Or if you have to have some sort of extended load in, give me a single (longer) screen interaction, that takes me straight from opening game to main menu without 50 things in between. I'm ok with the game loading stuff not significantly changing at every update of new content. Perhaps there is a middle ground of single loading interaction with some limited big update stuff appearing as images.
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For a Trapper, that was actually an alright game. Maybe as good as can reasonably be expected. For a Trapper. Some trap placements, particularly early on were a little bit predictable. Maybe also a bit too chasy but that's so hard to not do sometimes. Against any half decent survivors who know what they are doing, most Trappers will not have a pleasant time.
Trapper needs a significant rework.
It takes a lot of skill to play Trapper well and even then, there is a decent amount of risk it might not work out - bad wasted risk, not good useful, fun game risk.
A recent thread of some ideas - https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/321859/buff-trapper-concepts-here-we-go
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@IlliterateGenocide said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2953152#Comment_2953152
also pressing escape quits. being on killer menu and pressing escape to go back to home screen and accidently pressing it twice happens
I didn't know the ESC key did anything. Never pressed it.
Just tested it.
Pressing ESC from the main menu opens up the quit prompt. Interesting.
That's a somewhat different interaction though from the explicit screen clicking on the main menu that I am referring to.
If I am playing killer and click ESC twice (I can see how that could easily happen), then sure, there is a reasonable chance I might not want to exit the game. If I am on the main menu and I am clicking the Quit button, there is a massively overwhelming chance I am indeed looking to quit and the game should respect my click and enact it when I do so.
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@Mat_Sella said:
booting up a game because you accidentally quit takes up infinitely more time than the one literal second that you are confirming that you want to close it.
are you saying that your one second is more important than all the individuals who may have accidentally and innocently closed the game when they meant to do otherwise?
How many people are genuinely accidentally and/or innocently closing the game without meaning to? How does one just randomly happen to click the quit button?
If you click one small area of the screen, you leave. I'm unsure why the game needs to confirm that that is my intent; I've been through the thought process of deciding to leave. I am clicking that button and therefore taking full responsibility for what it entails.
If you don't want to leave, you don't click it.
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@Tiagoquix said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2952384#Comment_2952384
There have been several times that I went to click to exit the game and accidentally clicked on "Custom Game". So yes, depending on the person's "hurry", they may end up clicking in the wrong button accidentally.
If you are so insistent on having such an option, then the developers can add an option that is turned off by default.
Furthermore, it's possible to close the game using the "Close Window" prompt in Windows, and you may also accidentally end up clicking on it.
The confirmation is helpful and, again, I reinforce the idea that I am against removing it.
" If you are so distraught by your action, you can just reload the game "on purpose". "
No. Acidentally quitting the game and having to restart it is annoying, especially on low-end PCs.
With all due respect, all I see in your post is comments about how you have or you believe you might click the wrong button. It's the individuals responsibility to click the correct option for their needs. If you clicked "Custom Game" accidentally, the game doesn't know or care - it thinks you want to play a custom game. And how are you accidentally clicking or near clicking Close Windows if you are not planning on exiting the game. All I am seeing is you should be taking more care and not "hurrying".
Maybe the quit button needs to be moved? Maybe there is a menu option (confirm to exit) which should be off by default - simplifying the user experience should be the goal, if you want to add a step of insurance, that's up to you. I'm playing a video game, not doing brain surgery. This all seems like wasted development time unless it's super quick.
If you want to stop playing, you click quit and you leave.
If you accidentally click the quit button, you'll learn to be more careful next time.
If you click anywhere else, you don't.
On the small chance you decide to change your mind and you suddenly want to play more or you genuinely click the wrong area of the screen (your responsibility, not the game's), you just reload and it takes a bit longer on older computers - no big deal.
This is a minor QoL improvement, simplifying the user experience, where the interaction experience improves and vastly outweighs the potential losses - not even real loss, but potential loss, on a video game.
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@Tiagoquix said:
I disagree. The confirmation exists precisely to avoid accidental quits.
Under what scenarios is one "accidentally quitting a game"?
What percentage of the player base decides to leave and then decides it's an accident?
There is a massive screen of stuff on it with one small square allowing you to leave - you click the small square you leave and you click anywhere else, you stay.
Why do you need to be asked to confirm it. We're all old enough to know how to click or not click a main menu screen. It shows maturity of a game that you can leave and that's it.
If you are so distraught by your action, you can just reload the game "on purpose".
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While we are on the topic, make the Quit button just quit.
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Consistency and risk.
Consistency from the generator effects.
Risk from the trap effects.
New Trapper Abilities
Generators [Concept - adapt variables as needed]
Traps are made from the same material as the generators and therefore have a relationship, which affects the traps in the game. As the gens are completed, the trap environment becomes more dangerous. These are meant as cautionary slow downs and finishing generators adds to the risk that you might set off a trap as you are going around the map.
After the first generator is completed, there is a period of "Exhausted Status".
After the second generator is completed, also add a period of "Blindness Status".
After the third generator is completed, also add a period of "Hindered Status".
After the fourth generator is completed, also add a period of "Oblivious Status".
After the fifth generator is completed, also add a period of "Incapacitated Status".
Traps [Concept - adapt variables as needed]
You should be more damaged the greater number of times you step in traps, while also acknowledging a trap is more damaging than a hit. Perhaps tracked similarly to the circular UI states that a number of characters have - Trapper's is a trap slowly closing.
After you step in your first trap, you are injured and Mangled.
After you step in your second trap, you are injured, Mangled and Haemorrhage.
After you step in your third trap, you are injured, Mangled, Haemorrhage and Deep Wound.
After you step in your fourth trap, you are injured, Mangled, Haemorrhage, Deep Wound and Exposed.
After you step in your fifth trap, you are insta-down.
After you step in your sixth trap, your UI trap status is full and you are dead.
I don't know the exact balance here - the devs should go off how many people actually get trapped per game and then balance. You might need to go slightly more damage earlier. Also if 99% of players never reach 5-6 traps, then it's not the right balance for the ability - should be a regular but reasonably small % of survivors dying by being trapped multiple times.
I had the Doctor's Madness in here too at medium - higher levels (kicking in around the 3rd-4th trap), but just wasn't sure. It's an interesting possibility though - delusion from blood loss. Well worth considering.
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@Leonardo1ita said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2944978#Comment_2944978
I don't like RNG add-ons and powers, I think we should avoid them like plague, a consistent effect is much healthier for the game.
In the vast majority of cases, I would agree.
I want to see Trapper as a more consistent, solid, reliable killer that is able to be used without anything added.
Having said that...
The RNG of Trapper is that theoretically, you can get a game where no one steps in a trap.
I think Trapper should be a killer, designed to put across a high level of risk. Not that you for certain are going to get hurt but there is (a lot of) risk that you might get hurt. If you step in a trap, something happens. If you step in a trap and you are injured, something happens. If you step in a trap at 1 gen gone, something happens, if you step in a trap at 4 gens done, something happens. If you don't step in a trap, maybe something happens, etc. I think these things can be somewhat variable (within a framework).
I think there is a place for a solid basekit with a legitimate series of abilities and consistent addons with maybe some having varying effects. Random, within parameters - some level of consistency. So say I step on a trap for the 3rd time and 4 gens are done. I know within a reasonably narrow range what sort of effects and damage I am likely to take. Maybe I just don't know some minor variant of which damge, so I might have to adapt my gameplay a little.
That's the sort of thing I mean by random - planned, known, variable. I think there's nothing wrong with an addon enhancing a small RNG element of the traps/game, but again, within a framework.
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If you want to make a slightly fun, slightly useful, lower tier, still trappy addon, go something like:
"Fortune Trapper" - When the survivor steps in a trap, applies a random effect, eg. deep wound, normal injury, blindness, other slightly irrelevant status effect, no injury, etc. So a bit of fun, a bit of randomness, a bit of risk. Please nothing that gives BP - it's just not a great game mechanic in perks.
Actually... you could have a whole series of them - one at each level; each level becoming slightly more dangerous than the last. It can automatically fill from around 3-5 addon slots. There's also a basekit / ability concept in there somewhere.
Exactly what you want from Trapper; risk, maybe lots of risk but will it pay off...
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2944764#Comment_2944764
There's nothing wrong with brown meme add-ons that award extra BP.
If you don't want to use it then don't.
If Trapper was a decent well rounded, consistent killer, then sure, have something shallow at the end, if you must.
How it currently is, Padded Jaws is just hollow filler masking as bottom tier content. Playing with it to make it a little more this or a little more that is wasted development timem that should be focused on almost anything more useful.
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There's only one change that should happen to this addon.
It should be removed from the game.
Adding the word meme as a way of describing it, still doesn't make it ok.
As part of a complete overhaul for the character, as I discuss elsewhere, a "fun" lower tier perk would be ok.
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Just watched Otz's video about trapper addons - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEcyf7__djA&t=155s
Don't agree with absolutely everything, but pretty decent points overall. There are two takeaways for me.
Dead Hard and traps. Dead Hard has to be able to not ignore traps.
But really the main thing is the lack of consistency. So and so is a good on a trap IF..... so and so works well IF..... so and so can work when.... almost everything.
The main inconsistency should be if a survivor steps on the trap or doesn't.
If they do, then something bad happens (more than now, perhaps escalating). If they don't, something might happen, but maybe not much. Lots of ideas above.
I was playing before and had an injured David using No Mither step on a trap, but not near me. They got out, I was too far away and doing another task and nothing happened. I had another game before, spent ages just going around picking up traps and laying them by which time 2 gens were done and I hadn't seen anyone. Another game where I had to go to the other side of the map to get 2 traps because the gens were done there and no one would be going back. Just... pointless waste.
Trapper can be a good killer but is way too inconsistent. You have to know how to do all the step up AND then hopefully someone steps in it.
Rework the entire base killer experience to make the trap interaction much more consistent and then have addons that buff it a little or add interesting side effects. Basekit trapper with abilities alone should be decent enough. Fricking magic traps, sheesh. Trapper should be about the real risk that something pretty bad might happen.
How difficult can this be.
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There are essentially two elements to playing Trapper.
The first is the actual picking up, setting up, resetting, adjusting, moving, calculating, etc. the actual traps. As a gameplay feature, that's theoretically interesting but it's a significant time suck, meaning in most cases, the trapper usually only kicks in late to mid game and that's if everything works out. This is where a decent buff is needed. If Trapper is a killer that needs some time to do tasks (be that bear traps or environment traps or both) and then time to keep doing tasks, this should be made easier, as basekit. I think if the environment itself was the trap, that's a somewhat different take to the more cumbersome bear traps.
Then there's the actual killing and hurting and damage. By the virtue of you might step into a trap or you might not, the risk / reward ratio needs to be kicked up a notch. Not so it's overpowered, but if you step in something (trap / environment) it's stronger than what is essentially now just getting a hit.
Trapper should feel like a killer where you know there is a ton of risk in the game. Not necessarily damage, but the risk of damage, as opposed to say Nurse or now Legion where you pretty much know it's going to be hit after hit after hit and your team is going down pretty quickly.
Trapper can be satisfying to play but the overall risk/reward ratio needs to be kicked way up. If you come into a game with Trapper, you should be like "uh oh, gotta be super careful with every interaction" and that if you do something wrong it could hurt you and sometimes if you don't, you might get hurt too.
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Maybe there's even a second whole character in here. Environment Trapper. Female. Older. Relative of current Trapper. Devs - keep me in the loop. Buff current character though.
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The concept of trapping maps features themselves is a very interesting one. Would add a very new gameplay dimension.
Risky too. eg. Each game, one random pallet, hook, gen, totem, window is "trapped".
Trapper can see which, survivor can't. Defintely worth considering.
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Here's a crazy idea. Trapper 2.0. SImilar to some of the ideas just a couple of posts above. The game itself is the trap. Meta killer. Everything that normally might assist the survivors to get out is now risky and might hurt them. Very interesting. Maybe even without the bear traps or they become incorporated somehow - haven't worked it through properly.
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If anything, I'd like to see tantrum throwers be given a slightly longer timeout.
There are close to no circumstances you should abandon your team, even if a bunch of things aren't going well.
People cheating is a seperate issue.
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@Seraphor said:
Additionally to the comment above, if it can still open the hatch, why not just keep it as a key?
It shouldn't be kept as a key, as the key is a whole gameplay mechanism that has largely lost most relevance and should be reworked completely and the best idea is probably to combine it with a very similar mechanism (maps).
A key is just a bit of metal that opens a thing.
The Compass has a hook or latch attached to the bottom of it that interacts the same way (maybe breaking the item as it's final act) or the Compass slots onto the hatch and the magnetics override the locking mechanism and make it pop open, again destroying the item but opening the hatch.
I see on another thread that the key might also be of use in terms of speed boosts to traps, chests, so on. That could be an ok idea for a medium-high level addon - you attach the latch on the compass (the same one that opens the hatch) to the item and it helps it move a little quicker.
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@LapisInfernalis said:
Scratched Compass (rare):
- tracks gens and chests in 8m radius
- shows Survivors in a 24m radius
-20s of use
Old Compass (very rare):
- tracks gens, chests and Killer's belongings in 8m radius
- shows Survivors in 24m radius
- 25s of use
Irideceant Compass (ultra rare):
- tracks all objects in an 8m radius
- shows Survivors and the Killer in a 24m radius
- 30s of use
Add-ons :
Common:
- add 5s of use
- +4m range
Uncommon:
- add 10s of use
- +8m range
- better efficiancy
- set marker
Rare:
- +12m range
- don't lose item when dying
- see obsession all the time/ obsession sees you
Very rare:
- don't lose item when opening the hatch
- objects are shown to all survivors
Ultra rare:
- can open the hatch
Looks ok. Maybe a tad less on the time. Just one main thing - the hatch.
Opening the hatch now is a far different concept to how it was. The Compass should be able to open the hatch far lower down. At minimum, decently more available than now.
Adding it lower will actually add another gameplay element of risk - as the last survivor, do I risk the closed hatch or stick with the gate? Now a closed hatch is barely realistic. Making a latch on a compass far more available makes it actually somewhat of an option - still risky, but you actually could have a somewhat ok chance of getting out.
Also, Set Marker, Don't Lose Item When Dying and Don't Lose Item When Opening Hatch should go. The first is just silly and the latter two don't apply to anything else, so shouldn't here either - if I die, I lose my item, the end. Maybe some new addons to replace.
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Problem solved with my idea to merge keys and maps into a new "Compass" item.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/321559/from-keys-and-maps-to-compass
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There are some really interesting ideas in here. Thanks to everyone for sharing.
Just wanted to touch on one area for now, which I had totally missed - Abilities. Perhaps this is the sweet spot between basekit and addons. I guess it's sort of basekit.
It obviously has to be focused on the traps themselves and has to be something that be can applied reasonably consistently. For example:
- Trap Recall - Similar to what the above poster suggests. Maybe the trap goes back into the locker "pool". Scream?
- Traps Closing - When traps are stepped into or disarmed, there is a positive for the killer. Haste? Survivors in aura radius? Gen slowdown? This is about the killer losing the ability to use their power, not the fact that they might have caused damage to the survivor.
- Keep Getting Trapped - Maybe like Sadako's videotapes, the more you get trapped, the worse it is for you. Increased bad status effects? There is a case that you should be worse off if you step in a trap 4 times, than if you step in a trap once.
- More Gens, Worse Traps - Severity of injury depends on how many gens are done. Default is just injured. After 2nd Gen done, negative status effect. After 4th Gen done, 2 negative status effects. When first gate open, instant down. Whatever the balance is.
Do a bunch of these and then test and balance to make sure it's not too OP.
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Just a seperate note about aura and Trapper. I just don't know how convinced I am about the mechanic. If I see an aura of a survivor on the other side of the map for a few seconds, how useful is that really. By the time I get over there, so many things could have happened and I've probably interupted my flow of assessing an area to lay traps or going to pick someone up who has been trapped. And what does it even mean? Oh, there's a survivor on the other side of the map. Ok. Great. Pretty sure that's almost the entire game anyway.
If used, aura should be something connected to traps and applied consistently in a useful way.
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Yeah. It wasn't a concrete plan as such, more just trying to make the connection that it's simply just not worth the ongoing heartache of discussions about totem perks as there is a certain element of them being flawed by existing in the first place.
They aren't bad or wrong or the worst and the concept makes some theoretical sense but long term, it's just going to be easier to seperate the two.
Would welcome any other suggestions as to gameplay variables you can do with 5 set starting items per game. Maybe they are... time limited places of certain small random boosts... maybe they are something that the obsession can interact with... maybe they have randomised game wide effects that increase as the game goes on... maybe it's an RNG of being inflicted with a random status effect (good or bad)... maybe they are all lit and cleansing them adds permanent effects to that player / game... maybe etc etc.
The idea is that they are broad gameplay features (as in, "The Entity's Totems") and not perks.
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Trapper Add-ons
Good current elements for resuse:
- Decrease in setting time.
- Increase in escape attempt time.
- Increase in rescue time.
- SIlent trap setting.
Rework or change or gone:
- Status effect traps - Start afresh. Some worked into basekit. Some added as additions for higher level addons.
- Makeshift Wrap - Eh. Trapper mostly shouldn't be stepping on traps. Would be ok as basekit but not distraught if not. Maybe a middle ground is basekit just having delayed movement speed for a few seconds if you step on it. Not sure many other killers get penalties for interacting with their own attacks.
- Colouring - Should be transparent, rather than darkened.
- Disarm trap speed - Pretty pointless for the most part. If I am outside of the TR of the killer, it makes minimal difference if it takes me 4 seconds, 9 seconds, whatever to disarm. Increase time taken as a lower-mid level addon or use as addition to something else.
- Oily Coil - I find this too niche, sort of fidgety, not always active and sort of distracts from the focus of the overall flow, so generally don't use it. Having a single so-so addon for aura for the whole character seems a little pointless. Rethink the whole aura thing for traps to be useful or nothing.
- Tension Spring / Iri Stone - Perhaps look at for adjustment. There are some situations where everything being open is either wasted or makes it hard to track trap usage.
- Trapper Sack - I don't know many scenarios where you wouldn't want the option of moving your traps. Maybe relook at, at the end with Trapper Bag.
- Padded Jaws - Gone.
In general, add-ons should offer an enhancement of the base kit. At higher levels, I'd like to see more dangerous traps, where if you get caught, you get additional negative status effects.
Working fowards, basekit is one or two negative effects. Worse if you keep getting into traps. Addons add increasingly bad effects for survivors.
Working backwards, one example would be a purple addon allows half the traps to be Scourge Traps (like Scourge Hooks), where 4 random traps in the game offer a further nasty set of status consequences for the survivor if they interact with them. And then work down, so similar but less for green. Could even go really scary for iri and have something very nasty.
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I play a lot of Trapper.
- Traps should appear in lockers, not on the ground needing to be picked up.
- Getting caught in a trap needs to be more impactful over the course of the game. I can't say which, but add negative status effects as basekit for getting caught in a trap. Perhaps they increase if you or your team get caught more., eg. Deep Wound, Exhausted, Exposed, Haemorrhage, Hindered, Incapacitated, Mangled, Oblivious.
- Similarly, consider positiive status boosts for the killer, as more traps are set off or even disarmed. eg. Bloodlust, Haste. Disarming a trap could have a slight risk and offer a small balance boost to the kiiller as you are literally taking away their power.
- DH should probably not work over traps. This is way too abusable, particularly as the ones doing it are getting trapped less before this, simply because of who the killer is and they know to do it. Doesn't make it ok.
- Get rid of Padded Jaws. I play a chunk of nice killer and even I can't bring myself to run it close to ever.
- Consider allowing a third trap to be held by default.
Most of these changes would move Trapper up a notch in seriousness but with the still downside that you can really go a whole match without stepping in a trap - which basically negates everything.
Trapper is a lot of work to play well and even then, it might not work out if no one steps on them. Would be interested in seeing some match wide effects take place (as suggested above), so that even if you don't get trapped, there remains some sort of disadvantage generated, even if modest.
Also, a mori that uses a large trap to finish the person whole but I'd rather gameplay improvements over new animations.