crogers271
crogers271
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3487256#Comment_3487256
1) The game needs to stop double validating killer attacks. This is why the game has the forced short M1 attack bug that can steal hits from the killer. And if double validation can cause aim dressing to steal hits from the killer, than that should be fixed too.
2a) Sound occlusion is way too overtuned. Survivors noises shouldn't be super muffled or deleted just because line of sight is broken, especially with this new map strategy of filling maps with way too much clutter.
2b) Chase music is too loud
2c) Survivor noises are too quiet. Footsteps sometimes just go silent, depending on things like ground material, and that should be fixed too.
3) FoV should be fixed, enough that survivors don't "teleport" out of the killer's FoV.
4) Survivor movement needs additional animation frames, so the movements look smoothly animated from the killer's screen, instead of survivors wildly spinning their cameras, or wildly pressing movement buttons, to purposely cause their character to make erratic movements that are missing so many animation frames that it's unnecessarily difficult for the killer to follow. And if survivors are currently allowed to use a tech to exceed the intended turning speed then BHVR should fix that too.
5a) If killers are expected to leave a hooked survivor to find someone else to chase, than BHVR needs to majorly help the killer find someone else to chase. It's unfair to punish killers for not interacting with all the survivors, but then tell survivors it's totally fine to excessively hide from the killer instead of interacting with them.
6b) Survivors excessively hiding in general needs to be fixed. Patrolling maps and finding zero people because everyone is hiding feels bad, and survivors that pre-leave generators at the first sign of a heartbeat terror radius are a problem too. Part of the 3-gen problem involves excessively hiding survivors. In fact, many of the killer "problems" happen because it often feel like a waste of time to patrol the map to find hidden survivors.
7) Fix the excessive clutter and line of sight blockers from the maps, that were added as the "new map strategy". It makes it unnecessarily annoying to find and chase survivors, and it makes some killer powers feel like garbage. And maps should never be red, unless killers are allowed to have preset colors for things like scratchmarks/blood/auras, so that the map colors don't purposely hinder the killers.
8) Scratchmarks need to be more consistent, and actually show a path more consistently. There are too many instances where I survivor makes a sharp turn, and the killer sees zero scratchmarks showing if the survivor went left or right, and the killer has to basically guess a direction, and possibly spin around if they guessed incorrectly.
Summary: All the above things are purposely designed to work against killers, for the sake of survivor fun. This is starting to become a PvE game, where the killer is just fighting purposely bad game mechanics, instead of fighting the survivors.
For the record, I play on PC, this might be a difference on systems used.
1: I much more frequently have this go the other way where I as killer get hits I never thought I'd hit.
2: Again, I have a much different experience than you do. Once I'm anywhere in the vicinity of a survivor, tracking them via sound feels almost too easy.
3: FoV is the thing they're discussing changing. I've never had a problem with it, but understand there are a lot who do.
4: I wouldn't have a problem addressing the spin tech that some survivors can do, but that becomes a question of whether you think survivors should have any chance of defense once the killer gets close.
5: I can't comment on this because I have a totally different experience. There are lots of things I struggle with as killer, but finding survivors is pretty straightforward. Not only are there audio and visual ques, there are the aura reading perks and as the game progresses the number of places survivors are likely to be drastically shrinks.
6: Agree that this is kind of a stalemate situation if the survivors just decide to pull back completely.
7: We're back on the issue of how difficult it is to find survivors.
8: I don't know if that is the intent of scratch marks, so much as show the general location of a survivor.
Summary: Points 2, 5, 7, and 8 all kind of deal with the issue of finding survivors. While I've said this isn't an issue for me, it's also not a complaint I generally hear from killer mains. Given the propensity of aura reading perks, stealth plays are already risky as is without bringing distortion, and hiding survivors cannot progress the objectives so the benefits they gain seem like a trade off.
Point 1 I think everyone agrees is an issue, just whether it benefits survivors or killers more is disagreed upon.
3 they are changing, 4 and 6 I agree on (though 6 is already against the rules, it's just something that has to be reported).
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Are you saying that you guys purposely design killer kits to only be worth a damn up to a certain point, after which you basically have to drop them if you want to continue to stand a decent chance at victory?I'm not sure you'll get an official response, but I think you make an error on saying 'design', especially given the 7 year history of the game. I think the point is that its not inherently a problem that certain killers aren't as competitive at the highest levels.
It's also worth pointing out that BHVR, who believes that MMR generally works despite the opinion of many on this forum, have the goal that eventually all killers will feel like they've hit high MMR. Eventually, if MMR works, a killer should hit a period where they win and lose 50% of games and because MMR is hidden you have no idea whether you are high, mid, or low, but it will feel like you are at high.
@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3485533#Comment_3485533
I disagree. Keep in mind that the vast majority of all DBD players are casuals and they absolutely do feel even smaller changes. The game shouldn't be incredibly unbalanced at the top, sure. But more important than balancing is fun. A game cannot survive, if only the top 5% have fun playing it.
So BHVR do not only need to care that everything is somewhat balanced but also that the game remains fun for all levels of play. That is where most problems with lower tier killers lay. Many of them just aren't fun. I won't play Trapper, if it means the only way I can deal with good teams is by playing basement Trapper. I won't play Singularity, Knight or SM no matter how strong they are as long as I don't enjoy them. And I wouldn't play survivor, if gens took 2 minutes to complete just so that at the highest level weaker killers could compete.
Many of them just aren't fun. I won't play Trapper, if it means the only way I can deal with good teams is by playing basement Trapper. I won't play Singularity, Knight or SM no matter how strong they are as long as I don't enjoy them.I agree with most of your post, but slight disagreement here.
It doesn't matter if most players find a killer fun to play. For a killer to be viable only a small portion of players who are killers have to play them. If 1 out of 50 times a killer is chosen it's Twins, but that player loves Twins, and the survivors enjoy playing Twins, then rarity is not a huge problem.
@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3487163#Comment_3487163
The dev’s emphasis was that it’s super important for survivors to have good player experience….. and killers just get promised a decent kill rate.
Being a top 1% killer in VHS didn’t fix any of the player experience issues that killer had, it just meant that it’s possible to have miserable player experience and still win a decent percentage of games.
This is very similar to what BHVR seems like they are doing. We get announcement after announcement for BHVR creating some solution to help the survivor player experience, but after all these years the only thing announced primarily for killer player experience is something involving FoV. And BHVR states multiple times that if the survivor buffs move the kill rate too much, that BHVR will fix it, which means that it’s ok if the killer player experience is awful as long as the kill rate is where it should be.
So survivors get an entire HUD, visual heartbeat, removed hook grabs, a future anti-face camp mechanic, survivor bots that were primarily added to help survivors, and a future anti-3 gen mechanic, and increased map clutter and increased line of sight blockers to help survivors hide/escape chases/avoid killer powers….. and killers get something involving FoV, and they partially benefit from survivor bots? And that’s it after all these years? Where are the other player experience buffs that are primarily focused on killers? Why is there such a huge imbalance regarding which role gets the player experience buffs?
and killers get something involving FoV, and they partially benefit from survivor bots? And that’s it after all these years? Where are the other player experience buffs that are primarily focused on killers? Why is there such a huge imbalance regarding which role gets the player experience buffs?Outside Field of View what exactly would you want that could apply to all killers?
That's the big difference. Survivors get changes because there are numerous elements of the game that are just awful from the survivor's perspective. Facecamping ruins the game because you just sit there, 3 genning that goes 45 minutes is a slog and not exciting at all, etc. These are elements of the game that could apply to any killer and any survivor scenario so enacting a change isn't that hard.
Most of the killer complaints are either specific killer related or balance based, over which there is a lot more argument.
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1: Like camping, 3 genning is fine when it's only a small part of the game. However, it can get abused, again like camping, where the killer just devotes from the very beginning of the game to defending the 3 gen (like a killer who face camps)
2: Yes, it's counterable, but its not fun.
3: It's much harder to counter in soloq. It's great to point out the obvious tactics, but even if the team in soloq is decent, there's no way to coordinate who should be on what end of the 3 gen.
4: If the killer refuses to leave a 3 gen when you are at 3 survivors it can easily stalemate the game.
5: It's much improved after recent patches, but it could still be better.
6: It ruins whatever theme the game has left. The killer playing defense while the survivors attack/retreat just doesn't really work.
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Among the already mentioned, getting rid of hook suicides and a communication wheel.
Better MMR matching would help, but part of the problem is that MMR can't account for if a player isn't taking it seriously. I'll be in a game where everyone will be a skilled looper, but I'm the only one on gens.
To really address the issue though the game would have to make a decision whether it wants continue on the trend of trying to balance both SWFs and soloq at the same time. Because as long as they keep that, soloq will be at huge disadvantage and SWFs will have a relatively easy time. But if they were willing to do that (and it wouldn't be easy and require some fundamental changes) and impose penalties on SWFs, you could then actually balance out soloq better, but its always going to face the problem that one survivor playing poorly (sleepy, archives, goofing around, etc) will tank the team.
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@Frogsplosion said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3480767#Comment_3480767
I don't disagree, but it's an even worse disaster to balance a game around it's worst players.
Except soloq is not inherently the worst players, its a totally different type of game. You can try to balance around 4 SWFs, but that's a fraction of the player base.
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@Davenport916 said:
Survivors get free movement for the killers doing their job? Seriously bhvr? Stop sacrificing gameplay for sales just so you can nerf perks after everyone buys your content. You think we don't see it but we do. Poorly designed perk. No interaction on survivors end and does way too much
Survivors get free movement for the killers doing their job?I don't really have an opinion on MFT, but this isn't really unique. Relentless, no way out, deadlock, etc.
It also makes a lot of sense. If perks rewarded players for completing their objectives, the game would become a stomp
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@appleas said:
BHVR would have to rework the self unhook mechanic and all the perks and offerings associated along with coming up with a system smart enough to tell if someone is suiciding on hook intentionally and turn said someone into a bot even though that person has technically already died?
That sounds like too much work and effort.
On a side note, DC penalty shouldn’t be removed. DC bots are a bandaid fix, not the solution to why people DC
BHVR would have to rework the self unhook mechanic and all the perks and offerings associated along with coming up with a system smart enough to tell if someone is suiciding on hook intentionally and turn said someone into a bot even though that person has technically already died?There's a lot of things in this game that would be hard to rework, the unhook mechanic is not one of them.
First, you could get rid of it totally and there wouldn't be that much you'd need to redo.
But you don't even have to go that far. This is all you have to do (which others have suggested): A survivor may not attempt to unhook unless they brought slippery meat, deliverance, or a luck offering.
I'll take it one step farther: or three minutes of the game have elapsed or you've been on the hook for 50s.
The problem is obvious - players who try to kobe from the start of the game ruin the experience for everyone. You can still allow it, just not at the beginning of the game.
Alternatively, you could remove/decrease the penalty for dcing if you are on the hook so a bot can take over if we really want to allow people to get out of the game.
It's just crazy that the game punishes one type of leaving the game, and even makes it void in the MMR ranking if it happens early, and the other is totally supported.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3480261#Comment_3480261
I don't believe tunneling is OP. Survivors can win against a tunneling killer just fine if they're good. Maybe not Nurse and Blight, but that's a problem for those 2 not a general killer problem.
It's just really unfun, which is still a problem.
Gen rushing is the same in the sense that its the equivalent strategy on the other side, however the power levels are not the same.
I don't believe tunneling is OP. Survivors can win against a tunneling killer just fine if they're good.I agree on the concept, tunneling does have clear counterplay, though it creates its own problem. At low and mid MMR there are not a lot of players who are capable of the counterplay, while any killer regardless of skill can engage in camping/tunneling. So killers who do that vault up the MMR until they get matched against teams who can counter it, then they get crushed and complain about the game being broken.
So at no point of the experience are people really having fun.
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I try to avoid any addons that are overpowered. I like some of the Iri addons that have clear tradeoffs - example are the Pigs, give up two traps for an aura reading, but mostly just run browns and yellows. I wish all addons had some level of pro/con to them instead of feeling like a difficulty slider.
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Nah, he's solid. The infection effect isn't overwhelming, there is plenty of cleansing, but does serve as a useful slow down. The charge attack can save a lot of time, but is also counterable by the survivors.
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For pretty much any reporting instance you also need a recording. I don't think the number of people who report has any impact.
To my understanding, BHVR is cool with survivors playing for hatch. It needs to rise to the level of holding the game hostage. I don't think there is anyway 1 survivor can pull that off.
Outside cheats, the only things I've heard actually resulting in bans is body blocking a survivor into a corner or a survivor and killer actively working together (and both of those have exceptions, the killer can body block to guarantee a kill via the EGC timer and its perfectly legitimate to lead the killer to another survivor as long as you aren't working together).
Not saying I agree, I don't, but that's my experience with it.
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Huh? Failure how? Like they don't work? Not an interesting gameplay element? Or are you talking about the proposed killer long ago who destroyed permanent walls?
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@jayz666 said:
Hot take bloodlust is a built in crutch for killers who aren’t good at the game and is also a built in counter to made for this the perk is fine but if it gets a nerf I think we can all agree bloodlust needs a nerf aswell why should killers get free haste for being bad ? and no guys there aren’t actual infinites in the game so don’t let the killer mains tell you that there is so Closest to an infinite now is garden of joy window
Hot take bloodlust is a built in crutch for killersI mean, kinda, yeah, without it a killer who was outmatched would really have no chance against survivors who were clearly superior to them. It's somewhat unfortunate that there is nothing on the survivor side to keep the game interesting when they are getting crushed, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't exist for killer.
But it also adds other elements to the game. It gives a reason for the killer to stay in a strong loop knowing blood lust will eventually help them out. When they have bloodlust they now face a more critical decision on whether to break a pallet or not.
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Against a lot of killers, it doesn't make a difference. They're chasing me and the audio indicators will give a pretty good idea how close they are. If its something like a Slinger or Blight I have to keep eyes on them, but otherwise the risk of running into something outweighs knowing just how exactly close the killer is. Even killers like Wesker or Huntress give clear audio indications on what they are doing and if you need to be evasive.
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I've only seen him twice and once he dced.
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@brokedownpalace said:
What kind of a person thinks they can just demand answers from specific developers?
That part cracked me up. Not just a response from BHVR, specifically need the lead game designer. If it actually worked I knew how I would be starting every single one of my posts from here on out.
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As others said, normal. The game is not going to exist for an infinite amount of time, another ten years would be pretty impressive, you have access to certain things during that period.
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As others have said, killers are different.
One other issue though is that most of the 'survivor' sided maps (the big ones) are just really hard for new players as well on both sides. The first time I played Saloon it was like 'great, I know where everything is' within a really short period of time. So addressing the bigger maps also makes those maps easier for newer players.
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Part of the problem with getting you help is that you have two different things going on
1: You are complaining about the ban system duration - being a lot of people on this forum wish it was even harsher, you are starting on an unsympathetic note
2: You are trying to figure out what the technical problem is - people are missing this because they are more focused on 1
I'd play more custom games in single player to try and narrow down the issue.
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I had a game like this recently. Playing Deathslinger who I have very little practice with, was getting run around in circles. Get a down and another survivor gets way overconfident on how easily they ran me and tries to go and bait attacks, but I had agitation, so I get them down as well. Now I have two people on close together hooks which I stay near and turn into a snowball.
It's one of the things I'm looking forward to with the anti-camp mechanic. It creates an actual ruleset for how long you are allowed to camp and how near you can be when doing so.
It also surprises me as survivor in this situation when my fellow survivors just don't stay on gens. If you are at 2 or fewer, leaving the gens before getting chased just allows the snowball. Get the gens done, then mount the rescue.
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I usually get a lot more BP and pips as killer, even in a game where I lose.
I've noticed that whatever side has the BP bonus is likely also going to be harder. I feel like when survivor is +100 (the vast majority of the time for me) I very frequently get paired with teammates not interested in doing anything. When killer is +100, I tend to hit squads who are all really intense in how they play.
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It's a tricky question, because a concede option would ruin a lot of games. As has been pointed out, survivors give way too quickly ruining the experience for all involved.
On the other hand, yeah, there are lots of games were players should be able to concede as its pretty much over.
Here's my suggestion:
No hook escapes may be tried during the first three minutes (maybe five) of the game, excepting slippery meat/deliverance. After three minutes survivors may attempt hook escapes and the killer may open the doors presuming no survivor is hooked.
I think requiring a few minutes would invest most players into the game and you'd only have issues of giving up when it was truly dissevered (not as an absolute, but more generally).
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@PeacenGreasealt said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3473992#Comment_3473992
What about No mither?
You win the game I guess?
The survivor is now bringing two perks, one of which will be useless after this strategy, the other which will ensure they remain injured for the entire game.
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@adsads123123123123 said:
I used to think 2k was a draw but lately I've been seeing it as a loss. The reason for this is that the devs balance the game on a 60% kill rate and a 2k is only 50% of kills, so you're underperforming that match. The recent stats showed that the overall average kill rate was 60% https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/350586/stats-kill-rate-by-killer-and-mmr-september-2022#latest, but these stats are old. The last few patches have made killer far stronger. The Dead Hard nerf was the most important change. After this change, I'm getting 3-4k almost every match. To me, a 2k feels like a loss now.
A note on the 60% kill rate:
As is well known, any game with an early game disconnect is thrown out. However, there are also games were survivors suicide/go afk early, making the game 'not valid', but it's still tracked. I believe one of the stated reasons for the 60% kill rate goal is to account for those games - the goal is that the kill rate should be 50% presuming the game is balanced.
Of course, there are also games were the killer shows mercy decreasing the kill rate, but I think the theory is that there is more of the former (survivor suicide/afk) then the latter (killer afk/mercy).
I evaluate my performance based off what I went against - if the survivors were SWF and/or brought a bunch of purple/iri equipment/addons I have a different expectation than survivors who were empty handed and soloq.
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@WaveyTrey said:
Killer
1.) Hex: Bare the Burden: When a survivor becomes injured this hex activates. Whenever a healthy survivor heals an injured survivor to healthy without a Health Kit, Boon, or cooperative healing the healthy becomes injured. Injured survivors can see each other’s auras. If all survivors are injured they’re afflicted with 5% Hindered status while not in a chase. This perk deactivates when all survivors become healthy.
2.) Blind Rage: When you are blinded by a survivor gain a token, up to 2 tokens. Upon gaining 2 tokens Blind Rage activates. When this perk activates the person who blinded you becomes the new obsession. While chasing the obsession gain 5% Haste for each token. If the obsession is downed by any means you lose all tokens.
3.) Scourge Hook: Utter Silence: 4 random hooks become scourge hooks. After hooking a survivor gain the Undetectable status for 15 seconds. Whenever the hooked survivor is unhooked gain the Undetectable status for 15 seconds.
Survivor
1.) You Can’t Catch Me: For every 15 seconds in a chase with a killer gain a token up to 3. For each token gain 5% Haste. If you lose a health state during chase you lose all tokens. If you are one hook state before death and are in the injured state the secondary ability is activated. Upon getting 3 stacks in a chase lose all tokens. You are shielded the next time you would be put into the dying state. If the secondary ability is used the perk deactivates for the remainder of the trial.
2.) Let there be Light: This perk can only be used while healthy, and not one hook away from instant death. While repairing a generator press the ability button. Instantly repair the generator. Using Let there be Light summons The Entity, instantly killing the survivor who used the ability.
3.) Deadman Walking: If you were to die from being downed instantly recover from the dying state instead. When you become healthy your aura is revealed to the killer for 4 seconds. The next time you are downed after becoming healthy you can be killed by the killer.
Hex: Bear the Burden - Conceptually something that causes an injury trade is not a bad idea, but this is too powerful or too weak completely dependent on whether the other team brought self-care/medkits.
Blind Rage - Again, conceptually, something that gains the killer power after a number of blinds is not a bad idea, but don't think the execution works. I would like there to be something other than lightborn to potentially punish flashlights instead of just ignoring them.
Scourge Hook: Utter Silence - Not sure on the times, but generally a fine idea.
You Can’t Catch Me - No, you don't want perks that take a strong looper and make them even more powerful. This perk would be useless to someone new to the game, and make a good looper unstoppable. Looping the killer well is its on reward, it doesn't need more.
Let there be Light - So the idea of the survivor giving up something to gain something is not a bad idea, but its likely impossible to balance, and this definitely isn't it. Basically this would be run by 4 person SWFs to finish the last generator in a 3 gen to get a 3e. Though the meme squads who would have everyone kill themselves at the start of the game would be hilarious for first day this perk existed (and after the first day, extremely annoying).
Deadman Walking - No, way too powerful and confusing. Instead you probably want something that gives a benefit to a survivor after they are unhooked on their second hook state, but also applies some type of weakness. Giving the ability for a killer to kill the survivor is totally useless if the killer brought a Mori.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3473976#Comment_3473976
yes you need to be injured but you cannot leave after you injured someone in risk that your perk gets disable for spreading injure pressure....
It doesn't seem to be a big risk.
The scenario as killer is you are chasing someone who is injured and see an opportunity to go somewhere else:
1: If the survivor you have injured doesn't have Plot Twist, you are fine
2: If the opportunity is really juicy, it's a worthwhile trade
3: If the timer on corrupt intervention is mostly used up, doesn't matter
4: If the other survivors are already on other gens, doesn't matter
5: If you find the Plot Twist survivor before they get back up, a worthwhile trade
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Playstyles aren't meant to replace the hooks mechanic. The goal of other mechanics is to slow down the survivors goal, not set it back completely. That was the problem with the gen defense, it didn't just slow the survivor goal, it pushed it backwards.
Things like Pop and Pain Resonance can still do that quite well, but you actually do need to hook survivors to pull it off.
The nerfs of CoH and Dead Hard did something similar to survivors, they can still slow down the killer's objective, but being they are weaker they are really forcing survivors to do gens.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3473627#Comment_3473627
you know what is funny? Nicolas cage's new perk Plot twist counters corrupt intervention. It put you into dying state which automatically disables corrupt right at the start of the trial.
you know what is funny? Nicolas cage's new perk Plot twist counters corrupt interventionDon't you have to be injured to use Plot Twist?
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@ClownGuy5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3472703#Comment_3472703
Smh.....fun but gets hated for it. Got it.
I don't think you do get it.
Survivors don't find Skull Merchant fun. Whether you find her fun or not to play really doesn't matter for the game's viability. If people outright refuse to play against a killer, its not viable.
This is the difference between survivors and killers in game design. If 95% of survivors find a killer fun to play against, but only 15% want to play that killer, you still have a viable killer. Players don't have to choose a killer, survivors do have to go against the killer they are put in a lobby with.
On the survivor side, this is ultimately why Dead Hard got nerfed. Despite what survivors argued how it added more counterplay and action to the game, enough killers said it made the game less fun for them chasing a survivor trying to bait it out because it was in every match. It didn't matter whether survivors found it fun or not, it mattered whether there was enough killers who felt like it was ruining the game (in this case, BHVR thought there was).
Everyone has their personal dislikes that they vent and, for the most part, they get ignored because that's all they are, personal. But if there becomes a large number of people upset over the same feature, BHVR has to address it. The thing that will likely save skull merchant though is that she is rare enough of a play that its unlikely she's a priority anymore.
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@ClownGuy5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3472683#Comment_3472683
There is also a difference between exaggeration and real facts
"There is a SM we lost" No you just gave up at the sight of her.
"I have been in this game for hours" No you just arent doing anything to get out the game.
Same could be said for every other killer
"Infinite tombstone Myers is broken" It takes almost the end of the game to even pop it.
"Basement Trapper is broken" Mind your surroundings and don't get near basement.
"Mending simulator and Legion himself is broken" Split up.
Healthy or not, it all depends on the choices other people make and the predicament of the realm you play on
You're talking about balance, everyone else is talking about fun.
Infinite Tombstone Myers is perhaps related - its a boring game trying to avoid his gaze, no real chases, no hooks, just sit on gens. If you complete them before he gets the infinite, easy, but very boring, escape. But even then at least it isn't a game that is going to be particularly long.
@ClownGuy5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3472669#Comment_3472669
I don't want to change anyone's enjoyment of the game, but you're threatening to do exactly what those of us who hate Skull Merchant want you to do.
Can't blame me when its nothing but backlash for selecting a killer.
It's different if survivors overwhelmingly hate a killer's playstyle. You can't have a viable game if players outright refuse to play against certain killers (DCing, running to suicide, going AFK), which is what happens a lot with Skull Merchant.
People hate legion but dont cry for him to get a rework so it just doesnt make sense.
People hate legion but dont cry for him to get a rework so it just doesnt make sense.Legion does not have nearly the level of animosity that Skull Merchant does. There's more counterplay that doesn't rely on your teammates and, again, its not a game that is going to drag on.
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@ClownGuy5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3472609#Comment_3472609
It wasnt horrendous......
Singularity is boring to play because of how easy his power is negated by EMP and his power doesnt really give a high reward. IMO
The thing about the killers is that their playstyle doesn't have to appeal to everyone. If you only enjoy playing 5 or 10 of the killers on the roster, well that's plenty. You can easily hate 90% of the killers and still be a killer main (technically you only need to like 1, but that strikes me as incredibly boring).
It's different if survivors overwhelmingly hate a killer's playstyle. You can't have a viable game if players outright refuse to play against certain killers (DCing, running to suicide, going AFK), which is what happens a lot with Skull Merchant.
Singularity is new and unique. It definitely doesn't appeal to a lot of killer players, but seems to be really enjoyed by some if for nothing else than a change of pace. Balance is still an issue, but its also a killer that survivors seem to enjoy going against.
@ClownGuy5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3472641#Comment_3472641
So make her bottom tier like Freddy.....great Ill start finding a new killer main then
I don't want to change anyone's enjoyment of the game, but you're threatening to do exactly what those of us who hate Skull Merchant want you to do.
I wouldn't worry if I was you though. I think BHVR has thrown in the towel on the idea of major changes to her.
@whickedchainsaw said:
forged in fog, tools of torment and end transmission all garbage chapters. Im done with this company lmao anyone else playing a different game rn?
So far everyone in the thread is still talking about DbD, so if I was BHVR I wouldn't be too worried.
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It's covered in the bug report section.
You need to do it three times in a single game (and according to some people, have both nodes that lead to it completed as well). I just dealt with it as well, but once I did both of the above it completed.
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I really hate the gameplay that happens at the very end with the gates 99ed, so that tends to bias me on the question, but my experience is its better to just open them unless the killer seems to be waiting to hook someone for blood warden.
Agree with the idea that EGC should start after the last gen is activated.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
Everyone going "don't make it the focus" "No we don't need it" etc etc, where were y'all when the Legion tome released and gave us TMI ab Frank and Julie? Or Nurse and Andrew? Or Felix and his girlfriend? Or-
There's a big difference between doing something sometimes versus doing it all the time, which is what the poster asked about.
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Doing it for every character leads to bad writing.
There are two ways you could approach it
First, you could give every character a 'stat block' - list age, height, sexual orientation, blood type, etc. That would be the easiest way to handle it, but would also be cumbersome.
Second approach, you could have it come up within the lore. This leads to hamfisted writing where characters will go out of their way to refer to their partner by gender to make it clear. This is additionally difficult within a horror genre because many of the elements that get focused on don't have to do with romance.
When it works for a character, it makes sense to bring it up, but otherwise seems strange. Take Claudette, her whole character background is around science. It would seem strange to force in that in addition to being all about botany and online chat rooms, there's also a guy she found cute (it would likewise be weird to work in other details that many might consider important if this was a real person: religious affiliation for example).
Bisexual characters can be especially tricky to work in - just because a character is in a monogamous heterosexual/homosexual relationship doesn't mean they are straight/gay, so within the writing you now have to indicate the gender of the relationship they are in as well as indicate some past relationship or attraction.
Finally, it risks stereotyping by doing it for every character.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3467893#Comment_3467893
Want to know what their statistics say?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/JEP8V1WGZL1O/image.png
For context, they balance around a 60% kill rate.
Their statistics put Nurse, Spirit, and Blight strictly in low A or high B tier. They put them in same category as:
- SADAKO
- Pinhead
- Oni
And even better, they show that Dredge, Plague, and WESKER are actually BETTER than they are.
They also show that:
- Myers is totally balanced
- Legion is totally balanced
- Hillbilly is totally balanced
- Huntress is terrible
Their statistics are not reliable because they only go by kill rates, they don't go by what actually matters, which is how the match goes. There could be a situation where a killer gets 0 hooks the entire game, but has NOED, and is able to down 2 survivors and kill them because of NOED, then the other 2 escape. However, they got 2 kills, so i guess it is a totally balanced and fair match right? All of the perks and killer and map and MMR and all the other factors weighed in are totally balanced according to that match.
Additionally, you can have a match where someone plays skull merchant and uses no perks and just memes around, but everyone kills themself on hook because they don't like skull merchant, so she gets 4 kills and no gens get done. So i guess skull merchant is super OP now? And no perks are actually better than perks?
There could be a situation where a killer gets 0 hooks the entire game, but has NOED, and is able to down 2 survivors and kill them because of NOED, then the other 2 escape. However, they got 2 kills, so i guess it is a totally balanced and fair match right? All of the perks and killer and map and MMR and all the other factors weighed in are totally balanced according to that match.Additionally, you can have a match where someone plays skull merchant and uses no perks and just memes around, but everyone kills themself on hook because they don't like skull merchant, so she gets 4 kills and no gens get done. So i guess skull merchant is super OP now? And no perks are actually better than perks?Yeah, those will occur, so what? We're looking at pools of what, millions of games across the world? Sure, there will be a game where the survivors kill themselves, or the killer just lets everyone goes, but they balance each other out.
Large sample sizes balance out small variances.
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Unfair isn't really the best word choice to look at. It's more an issue that the game inevitably tries to balance around both swf and soloq.
If there was a way to create SWF brackets and soloq brackets with different balancing, I'd be all for it. I enjoyed playing survivor pre the HUD where what was going on around the map was a mystery.
Unfortunately, there's really no way to implement such a system.
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Back before the overhaul to 3 genning I hated Knight, now I enjoy playing against him quite a bit. Dealing with minions on the map is a nice change of pace from every other killer. Does it occasionally put you in a spot where you are just outrunning something, sure, but there's lots of times as survivor (healing, hanging on hook, doing a gen), where you are fulfilling an objective.
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I was set to be sympathic based off the first few sentences until I saw that it was plague. If the survivors come with a heal build, plague literally makes it worthless. If the survivors come prepared to be injured the whole match, plague is in trouble.
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I missed the first week of release while out of town, and have yet to play against him. I've seen a Twins and a Freddy, but no Singularity. It's purely anecdotal, I haven't seen a Pinhead in that timeframe either and don't consider him in anyway rare.
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It really depends on what you mean by easy.
Killer is much easier to pick up. You have the info you need, gen locations, hook locations, etc. Run, chase, hit, etc. As a new survivor its easy to feel completely lost on maps. There are also things like skill checks which will eventually becomes irrelevant to a survivor, but starting off can make the game more challenging/engaging.
In terms of easy for what you are doing during the match, then its survivor. There will be a fair amount of time where you'll know the killer is chasing another survivor and you can chill out.
In terms of difficulty, well it depends on the old soloq. You can be blessed with a teammate that carries, or, more likely, survivors who either don't know what they are doing or just really don't care.
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I think a big factor is also how much you care. As killer I rarely feel like I 'lost'. Bully squads and multiple crouching seems to send some players into a rage, but it really doesn't bother me. If its a 4e but I get a lot of hooks, it still feels good. As survivor, anything short of getting the gens done and escape feels like a loss.
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Of all the e-sports out there, DbD is the only one I've ever watched more than one match of. Quality really depends on who the announcers are. It's very different than my soloq matches, but so were my amateur soccer games compared to professional play.
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Play how you want.
Personally, I try not to eliminate anyone too early in the game unless they put themselves right in front of me. I find 1v3 exceptionally boring if there are more than 2 generators to go.
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Generally, I really like the game. Sometimes feel like it is the best games I've played in 35 years of gaming. I think that is why the forums focus on the negatives, because there are some elements that ruin an otherwise amazing experience (I say this coming off a game where a Skull Merchant let me bleed out right until the last second, then picked me up and carried me to a hook even though I was the last survivor).
But focusing on the positive:
1: The variety. One of the reasons I prefer survivor over killer is that every game feels really different. I like that between map and killer variety each game feels unique. While I also want the game to be balanced, I prefer variety over balance if there has to be a trade off.
2: The beginning and middle game. As survivor and killer, I really like how the game plays out. When the killer and survivors are roughly even in skill, it really feels like a tense race. Generators are getting done, but survivors are running out of resources and lives. The end game can frequently be disappointing on either side, but its a great run up to that point.
3: Uncertainty. I play soloq, and I do enjoy that there is a lot going on the map that I don't know about.
4: As survivor, escaping feels meaningful. In other multiplayer games, or as killer, it's nice to feel like you had a good game, but its not a major factor. As survivor, the game feels like an experience. In a close match helping the other survivors escape actually feels like we overcame a challenge. Getting downed after the doors are powered actually feels like a horror movie were someone gets caught at the last second (which feels devastating, but makes those escapes feel much more worthwhile). If another survivor played really well and dies at the end I legit feel bad that I/we weren't able to save them, which is not a feeling I've ever had in any other game.
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Most of the 'problems' that people say this idea would cause are easily addressed:
1: There are times trying to escape is the best idea. Agreed, thus escape attempts are only not possible until X occurs (that could be one survivor dead, a certain amount of time has passed, or something as simple as the first survivor can't try and escape).
2: It would eliminate the luck mechanic/builds. Again, easy fix. If a single person increases luck, escapes are viable from the beginning of the game.
3: Won't allow survivors to communicate with their hands. No problem, still allow survivors to control their hands, but they can't actually complete the action.
I really don't disagree with the idea of players not having to play a game they don't want to, but if so why even have things like DC penalties? It's so strange that BHVR has an 'approved' way of disconnecting and a punished way of disconnecting.
With the upcoming idea of bots taking over for DCs, BHVR should just go one step further if they are intent on allowing people to skip out of the game - just give an option to exit under certain conditions and let a bot take over.
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I'd always recommend two killers over one, but I really only find killer fun when I'm switching between roles a lot.
I guess there are three ways to look at it.
1: Is the new killer so much more fun than the other options you have?
2: Are you looking for a killer that will be 'powerful' (if so, get blight and spirit if you don't have them).
3: Are you looking for unlocks? I'd say two killers are a better option.
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As others have said, I try to play to what the survivor give me.
Fairness however isn't the big part of it, but most of the easy tactics are boring. Camping a survivor? Boring. Tunneling out a survivor and still having 9 hooks and 4 gens to go? I'd rather be the one to DC. 3 genning (when it was more viable), I don't want to spend 30 minutes in the game on either side.
This only changes if the survivors are good. If the survivors know how to counter tunneling and camping, then it actually becomes interesting again.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3462679#Comment_3462679
Firstly, I literally mention lethal and corrupt in my post. So I’m not sure why you’re saying I don’t. I said there are plenty of perks which killers get value from without doing anything and that is a fair counterpoint to my notion. However, they are NOT the strongest killer perks. The strongest killer perks require you to do something. Whereas the most popular survivor perks pretty much all share in common the fact they are simply plug in and play.
Setting Made for This aside is disingenuous. And I think you know this. The effects of that perk are already very well documented because its effects are so basic we already know the impact it’s having. To suggest otherwise or that we need more time is wrong.
I really don’t understand how anyone can look at the data on Windows and still come up with the idea that it’s just totally average. Let’s look at where the data comes from for a start. Players self reporting. Because all those casual players who load up on a Friday or Saturday night upload their builds to night light right? It’s weird to me that a perk can be used so much and yet it apparently be so average. Do you see brutal strength in 30% of your survivor matches? Somehow I doubt it. No matter how good a player is they’re not psychic are they? The information this perk provides helps everyone out in chases. New players learn the maps and anyone can run to the nearest highlighted pallet and drop it. And for veterans it lets them know which pallets are still up and where the tiles can be chained. Major value for everyone of all levels with no requirements.
I really think people get hung up on this “managing exhaustion” thing as if it’s some great demonstration of skill. I said in another post, I agree that balanced landing takes some initiative and clever planning to activate. The idea that sprint burst and lithe require a lot of thought though is laughable. Can these perks be used badly or more effectively depending on the survivor? Of course. But the idea that managing exhaustion takes some masterful ability is wrong.
Deja Vu literally had an activation requirement before its rework. Now it’s free info and gen speed. We can debate the overall impact of the perk, but along with Prove Thyself all of this does notably add up in games when it comes to Gen repair time.
I agree staying injured with Resilience can be risky. But Resilience enables you to both 99 the heal (if haemorrhage isn’t a thing) and pair it with Made for This. I think you’re overestimating the trade off between being injured and what Resilience provides. Good survivors really do not care that much about being injured and there’s good reason for that. Pair it with Adrenaline and towards the last Gen being done it’s very easy to not even worry about healing when you know an automatic heal is coming your way.
I’d be curious to know what survivor perks you consider to be powerful? You said adrenaline, but what else?
I really think people get hung up on this “managing exhaustion” thing as if it’s some great demonstration of skill. I said in another post, I agree that balanced landing takes some initiative and clever planning to activate. The idea that sprint burst and lithe require a lot of thought though is laughable. Can these perks be used badly or more effectively depending on the survivor? Of course. But the idea that managing exhaustion takes some masterful ability is wrong.You use words like 'masterful' that no one else is using. But I'll be the sucker who tries to argue it anyway.
Using Sprint Burst requires changing up your game play and deciding when to activate it is a strategic decision. Is a hard decision? Depends how you look at it. Basic level, easy, wait for killer, sprint, gain time.
On a deeper level, there's a lot going on. Do you run around with a 99ed sprint so you can switch to a walk and perfectly time a sprint so killer misses a swing? That's a lot of time that you could be on a gen. And if you come with this strategy, what do you do if you hit one of the killers for which it really isn't a big issue? And if you are playing a killer who is susceptible to the sprint burst strategy, are you smart enough to ignore the player trying to bait you into chases?
So yeah, it's not hard to use. With very few exceptions, nothing in the game is hard to use. But DbD is a game where using an ability to buy you five seconds of time or seven seconds of time is a big jump. Personally, I'd prefer elements like that were skillful uses gains you small advantages, compared to things like DH, where a single successful or failed use can determine the outcome of the game.
I agree staying injured with Resilience can be risky. But Resilience enables you to both 99 the heal (if haemorrhage isn’t a thing) and pair it with Made for This. I think you’re overestimating the trade off between being injured and what Resilience provides. Good survivors really do not care that much about being injured and there’s good reason for that.This seems to go against what else you are arguing by saying good survivors. Yes, good survivors are benefitted a lot by that extra 9% vault speed, but it doesn't mean a lot to new players. That seems to be what you are arguing for, perks that are more rewarding when you become better at the game.
I think the best examples of what I consider healthy perks are what the devs did with pain res and dead hard.If you are talking about the recent change to DH, that was a balance change. If you are talking about the prior change of DH, you are looking at one of the most complained about issues from killers who argued it made certain killers unplayable at higher levels.
I genuinely don’t see how you can compare a perk like pop that requires to you to injure, down, hook and then kick a generator to get value from it with some of the survivor perks I mentioned. I understand the argument you’re trying to make that these perks give you value “automatically” because you get value from them by playing the game, but it’s still very different from survivors getting value from doing nothing but equip the perk to begin with.As others have said, you are highlighting the things the killer needs to be doing anyway in the game. The only thing survivors 'need' to do is gens. Unless you want gen rush and dozens of perks with the same conditions as flashbang, it wouldn't be a good shift.
I'm really confused by what you think the game should you look like. You don't seem to put any emphasis on strategic decisions, what to bring/how to play, when they are a core component of what the game is.
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Cyberpunk 2077
Killer: Keanu Reeves
Survivor: Keanu Reeves
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It depends on how you define things. I think survivors (of which I am a main) rush to call tunneling/camping way too quickly.
That said, dedicated tunneling from the start is not the norm, but also not unusual, facecamping is rarer though seems likely when hitting a Bubba, and slugging depends whether you count slugging with two remaining, or just leaving survivors to bleed out - the former is not unusual, while the latter I can only recall a handful of times.