Wiccamanplays
Wiccamanplays
About
- Username
- Wiccamanplays
- Joined
- Visits
- 1,418
- Last Active
Comments
-
@Dinadin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4039161#Comment_4039161
So you want to abandon in a situation that reveals your lack of skill and the only thing you want is to cut off your training time? Youre literally just screwing yourself in this scenario. You will just loose out on opportunities to get more experience. Another match wont bring you more benefit.
I feel like your understanding of how DBD works is very optimistic: unfortunately it does not match the majority of my experiences with the game. About 75% of my games as Killer can be broken down to a) I catch a Survivor because they brought no info perks or they make a mistake and they give up by disconnecting or refusing to engage with the trial, ruining the match for everyone else, or b) horrible map and loop RNG, me being stupid enough not to play the sweatiest, nastiest Killers and builds I can think of, being matched against Survivors with as many as 4 times my hours who have decided to bring the most busted builds possible (with or without SWF buddies in their Twitch stream), or some combination of all of the above, means I lose control of the match pretty much immediately and have no way of asserting control or even "improving" since I'm hopelessly outgunned from the get-go. The remainder are games which were challenging and I do win, but most of those are utterly miserable examples of me resorting to the kind of tactics Survivors hate a(nd I'm not fond of either) because the Survivors leave me no other options.
Your viewpoint makes a number of assumptions I can't recognise: namely that these matches are opportunities for development and not a waste of everyone's time, and that I'm not already as good as I can get at Killer without grinding DBD exclusively, which I wouldn't even want to do if my matches are going to be this much of a horrible, pointless slog. The game already accepts that some Trials become irredeemable for Survivors and offers them an easy way out, so if the Killer can't straight-up concede from the menu, just let them open the exit gates and walk out of there themselves.
-
The main problem with this idea is that Decisive Strike does not affect all Killers equally. You DS against a Nurse or a Blight? You gain maybe 5 seconds of time before they down you again. You DS against most M1 Killers? It's basically game over for that chase.
Add in that with the increased pace of the game recently and a Killer can get hit with a DS while having no intention of tunnelling. In the 70 whole seconds that a Survivor can be on hook (even more with Reassurance, which is stupid if you ask me), plus the 60 seconds that DS is active, think about how much can happen. The Killer could come across a fully healed Survivor on the other side of the map after having hooked a different Survivor, chased a third one off, lost as many as 2 generators and if they down the one they find and try to hook them they get punished for "tunnelling".
DS is already an extremely popular perk and has been since it released. If you want more protections from tunnelling for Survivors, you need more communication options available for solo queues and more incentives for Killers not to tunnel early (like perks disabling when a Survivor is sacrificed, more diverse slowdown options or stronger perks for spread hooks).
-
"Survivors can also only abandon in very specific situations. And well, Killers should not go next, a Killer DC is probably even worse than a Survivor DC, because when a Survivor DCs this sucks for all other Survivors (not for the Killer, since it is a free win with a Bot), but at least the game goes on. If a Killer DCs, the game would be over immediately."
The match is over and the Survivors win. They get to escape with all their BP, while the Killer gets nothing and a timeout penalty. I just don't see why a Killer who's clearly aware that they're past the point of no return has to keep going or face a penalty just for the amusement of the Survivors, like they're some kind of dancing monkey.
-
For context I want to be able to abandon when enough time has passed without successfully hooking a Survivor. Being able to concede when a match is clearly lost would save everyone time and grief and help with burnout. I'm just sick of having to play out a match that is basically irredeemable so the Survivors can teabag me at the exit gates.
-
It's partly because other stronger killers are either bugged, stale or both. For Ghoul, it helps to think about how popular Wesker was when he first released. A Killer from a well-known IP with a very oppressive, dynamic power which is also relatively easy to learn, The Mastermind was pretty much the only Killer you saw for about a year. Of course Wesker has been toned down since his release, but he's still very popular. The problem is that Ghoul's power is even stronger than Wesker's and even less fun to interact with (getting thrown about is definitely more enjoyable than being locked in place for a long animation). Easy fixes for Ghoul would be removing Deep Wound from his kit, changing how Kagume Mark is applied, and allowing Survivors more momentum during his grab; more radical ones might include removing the autoaim hit entirely and pivoting more towards Kagume Leap's value as a movement tool. I just hope it doesn't take too much longer to bring Kaneki more in line with other Killers.
Blight is a mystery to me: people have half-jokingly speculated that one of the devs must be a Blight main for how lucky he is balancing wise. He's been at the apex of DBD practically since release and has never received more than a superficial nerf, and has often received compensatory buffs in response. He's one of the easier top-tier Killers for beginners to learn (especially in comparison with, say, Artist or Singularity), while also having an insanely high skill ceiling that lets him dominate in competitive DBD. Some possible changes of varying nerf-hammer weight could be: 1) Blight loses all tokens when he hits a Survivor with his Rush, meaning his cooldown time between hits is longer; 2) his regen time on Rush tokens is adjusted for a similar effect to the above; 3) Blight can't see auras or scratch marks while Rushing and 4) Blight can no longer break pallets with his Rush (maybe relegated to an iridescent addon).
-
I don’t like it when something like that splits the queue and subsequently makes queue times worse. It’s okay for like a few days but it wears out its welcome pretty fast.
-
Think about it like this: you go to a haunted house attraction at a carnival. The characters are scary, the atmosphere is creepy and you’re genuinely spooked. But if you keep going back, you’re never going to be as immersed as you were the first time. Sure, the costumes and the furniture and the ambient music might change around, and you might go with different people, but the house itself and the rules of the ride are fundamentally the same, and you’ll start to recognise the actors under the makeup, or the sound of the machinery underneath the floorboards. And sometimes one of the monsters faints from heat exhaustion, or one of the people you went in with starts a fight or has a panic attack and everyone has to break character. After 4 years, you won’t be scared in the slightest, and it’d be understandable if you got bored or stopped going.
If you only see DBD as a horror game, and not a pvp game with horror flavour, it’s never going to have the same longevity for you that others have found in it.
-
Here’s my best shot:
Bring back some of the proposed anti-tunnelling measures from the previous patch, but reduce the hook count to 4 or 5 instead of 6, and instead of making generators untouchable after a Survivor death, make it that the stronger gen regression perks (Pain Res, Grim Embrace etc) disable once a Survivor is sacrificed like Ruin used to: baseline Killer movement speed while carrying a Survivor and the animation speed of hooking should be increased, and non-consecutive hooks on different Survivors could impose a temporary Thanatophobia-like effect on repair speeds or global regression on generators.
-
The fact that their survival and escape rates can’t account for DCs is quite worrying. That must really skew their data, and if all they’re using is that kind of data to make decisions then no wonder their attempted fixes have been so off the mark.
-
@Colt45m said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4025169#Comment_4025169
An exploit can refer to using any situation unfairly for one's own benefit. I think its you who needs to know the definition. By any situation unfairly means tunneling, slugging and camping. Have a nice day.
in the context of video games (and tech more broadly), an exploit is a tool or method to take advantage of an unintended flaw or error in a piece of software. For example, if a Killer had a bug that they had no terror radius when equipped with a certain weapon skin, or a Survivor became unhookable if they did a certain button input at a pallet vault, and people used those bugs to try and win trials, that would be exploiting, which is a reportable offence in DBD. Things that are intended to be in the game by the devs, however problematic or imbalanced, are not exploits: so a Killer tunnelling to better control a trial, or a Survivor using the quietest character with the most camouflaged outfits to make it harder for them to be spotted, is not an exploit. If you want to be angry or bitter at someone, direct it at the developers who have not found an effective solution in the game’s near 10-year lifespan (and still haven’t found one in this current PTB), and not the players who are usually just trying to play the game.
-
I like the concept but again, buffing gen kicks will overly benefit the strong killers with high mobility that can go around the map and kick them without losing pressure. Think Ghoul, Blight, Nurse, Krasue et al. Trapper or Ghostface won’t benefit from a bonus to a gen kick if the generator he needs to protect is on the other side of Ormond. If there’s to be an incentive for non-consecutive hooks it needs to be valuable to every type of Killer, especially the weaker ones who struggle more with applying pressure to Survivors.
-
I've had people do this deliberately either to distract/annoy me or to make me come and get them because they want to go next but don't want the DC penalty. If it's the former I tend to ignore it, though it is very irritating and I agree it would be nice if there was some limit on the number of notifications you can prompt. If it's the latter I slug them.
-
@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991973#Comment_3991973
In that case, I hope it prompts BHVR to have a deep look at those Killers,
Sorry, I thought I quoted it. This will never happen. They've kept low tier killers in the garbage can for years. At best, they'll give killers like Trapper and Hag half an addon as basekit and call it a day, like they always do.
Oh right. Yeah, I hope they'll be more radical and proactive at addressing Killer and Map balance, but I suspect they'll be at the back of the queue behind the next 30 Sable skins and the Pizza Hut collab featuring newest Killer The Annoyance.
-
@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991953#Comment_3991953
I'll take things that will never happen for 500, Alex.
???Which things will never happen??? My post is like 5 paragraphs, you have to be more specific if you're trying to drag me
-
@sinkra said:
"Gen rush" doesn't exist, it's just a term made up by killers when survivors do their objective faster than the killer, which is the goal of the game.
So when I play Hag or Ghostface on Badham or RPD and Survivors with 4 Commodious Toolboxes, each with BNPs plus perks like Deja Vu, manage to clear 2 gens in 60 seconds, before I'm even able to hook someone, I should just… what? Play a different Killer?
-
First of all, the steady increase in player numbers suggests that people have not been leaving the game "in droves"; while I'm sure there have been Survivor players who've left because of not enjoying the game's current state (in spite of the bufs Survivors have rightly received), it doesn't help discourse to exaggerate.
Second, kill rates have been inflated across the board by the changes to Endgame Mori and the Abandon feature, as well as the Go Next phenomenon in general: I've had many more games where Survivors have just peaced out of entirely winnable scenarios, and I don't really see the point in letting bots escape, especially when they're usually worse at the game (this does raise the question of how much merciful Hatch escapes were influencing kill/escape rates.
Third, kill rates as a blunt statistic are not very informative by themselves: I just checked my stats and my highest KRs are on Wraith and Trapper, because I played them as a beginner and got a load of 4ks against baby Survivors who didn't have any perks and didn't know how the game worked, before I reached the MMR cap and those Killers becoming effectively unplayable. Meanwhile the more 'accurate' average of around 60% for my mains does not come from usually getting 2 sacrifices per trial with the occasional 3rd, but from having a rough split between 3-4k matches and 4 man escapes complete with teabags at the Exit Gate. My experience may not be universal, but then neither is the experience of the pro DBD player who gets ridiculous win streaks on S-tier Killers (I suspect the problem there is with the Killers they play, not with Killers in general: I've not seen someone complete that challenge on Skull Merchant).
Finally, few of the changes proposed will actually affect the status quo. While I'm generally in favour of the anti-slugging changes– though the specifics may become problematic– the anti-tunnel changes will not bother the best Killers in the game and not help the worst. It doesn't matter that gens become unstoppable and Survivors get a buff to repair speed if a cracked Nurse or Blight can still kill everyone at 4 gens. An Onryo does no better with basekit Pop and BBQ if Survivors can still effectively ignore her power and clear 3 gens before she gets her first hook.
If these changes do go through as described, and the numbers are actually meaningful, it probably will cause a drop in kill rates, but only in the Killers who already struggled to secure kills without tunnelling (who also tend to be the ones more accessible to newer players, players on console and players with disabilities). In that case, I hope it prompts BHVR to have a deep look at those Killers, the flaws in their designs, and the changes that could be made to them and the game more widely to close the gap between top and bottom tiers, so there's actually an incentive to play anyone other than the top 5.
-
Honestly if devs want these changes to go through, they seriously need to take a look at Toolboxes, BNPs and skillcheck gimmick builds. The reality of a Trapper or Ghostface having to deal with 2-3 gens being popped in 60 seconds, which is usually before they can even get their first hook, completely obviates any buffs they might receive for their second hook.
-
There's camping and then there's camping. In endgame camping is really a necessary evil because the Killer has no other objective to defend and it's probably the only way of securing one (or one more) sacrifice. There's camping when you know a Survivor is going unhook aggressively so you might as well get a free hit or even a trade. There's also the scenario where you hook, patrol, find nothing and then return to the hook because you can't find Survivors (less common now but used to be a real issue in the age of Distortion). And then there's proxy camping, which isn't great but isn't actually very viable for most Killers: Billy, Bubba, Huntress, and Trickster are the only Killers who can reliably do it with impunity by completely denying the unhook without even trading, and that's something the devs should look at re activating their powers by hooked Survivors, especially since many even weaker Killers have anti-camping features built into their powers. Even then, a bodyblock or two-man unhook is still effective. Basement camping is pretty rough, especially on the above Killers who can chew through health states very quickly or setup Killers like Singularity, Hag and even Trapper. Making the basement entryways wider so they're harder to completely block is the only general solution I can think of that wouldn't probably make DBD's spaghetti code catch fire.
The best counter to camping is to rush gens. A Survivor is on the hook for 70 seconds per stage, not counting perks like Reassurance or Camaraderie which make it even longer. Add in the time to pick up, carry and hook and you've got about a generator's worth of time per stage. If the Killer is committed to camping then the other three Survivors can punish them pretty severely, even if the hooked Survivor doesn't get an anti-facecamp unhook. You can then rescue at the last second, trade if necessary and repeat, assuming this doesn't force the Killer to change their strategy, in which case problem solved anyway. It's not fun if you're the hooked one, but since when has DBD been a fun game?
As Killer I don't camp from the get-go as an intentional strat because it's boring and rarely effective, though sometimes Survivors create conditions where a Survivor is hooked in the only area worth defending, and why should I go over to the dead zone on the other side of the map for no reason just so they can unhook? I also find it infuriating when the last 2 Survivors take turns unhooking and prolonging a match that's already over, so I tend to proxy camp then.
As Survivor I don't see camping very often outside of the scenarios described above, and even then not terribly often. Killers are usually too scared of losing gens or accidentally giving anti-facecamp progress, so they tend not to stick around. I remember a match when I first started playing where a Doctor downed someone on The Game, hooked them in the tiny torture room on the lower level and just stood in front of them spamming shock until they died. I'm so glad that at least that can't happen anymore.
-
I'd say the average is around 2. Resources get depleted, easy gens have already been cleared and a lot of slowdown builds and less powerful Killers have built up momentum.
There are the occasional stomps or rolls but it's very rare that fewer than 2 gens get completed when I'm playing either side, but I'm not a great Survivor and I don't tend to play the strongest Killers with the strongest builds very often.
-
I can understand being upset about Kaneki, he's a very strong Killer, very popular and very new so there's not been much time to learn how to outplay him. But he has already been nerfed a few times and may be getting more changes down the line, plus he's actually not that easy to learn to start with (especially on console where a very large number of people play) so I think he's actually going to be less of an issue in the majority of matches once things settle. What I think you've suggested (honestly what you've written is not very coherent) would make an already somewhat clunky Killer be completely unwieldy and punish the Killer for using their power, which should never be a thing.
Singularity is also very strong but has more built-in counterplay in the EMPs. If you regularly use them out of chase and when other Survivors are being chased he already loses a lot of his strength. If you think about what he gets to do it's not much different from a Nurse blink, but with a lot of extra steps. Additionally Singu has a very low pickrate because he's so beginner-unfriendly to the extent. The nerfs I think you're suggesting would gut Singularity, putting him back in the terrible state he was in at launch.
-
I don't really care about any particular licences but a Fromsoft collab would be fun. Black Knight skin for Knight, Nashandra skin for Nurse, Orphan of Kos skin for Blight, Maliketh skin for Oni etc. and a bunch of cosplay skins for Survivors (Ranni Mikaela?)
- As for original content:
- Big buff wolfman/werewolf Killer with a blood-curdling roar/howl
- Evil fey/fairy Killer who laughs maniacally
- Older woman Survivor
- Non-binary Survivor
-
DBD is pretty close to the best state it's ever been in as far as I can tell. Nostalgia is powerful, but it's also not an accurate way of interpreting the past. Admittedly I've not been playing the game as long as many others, but even within the few years I've been playing the quality of the average game is better now than it was when I started. The progress hasn't been linear (the MFT meta, several bugged Killer launches, the whole Skull Merchant debacle) but in terms of overall health the game is in a really good spot now. And once some of the PTB changes come through it'll be even better.
-
This is a salient issue for a lot of Killers. Any Killer with a 'prop'– from Plague fountains and Pig boxes to Xenomorph tunnel entrances and now Springtrap doors– is subject to the RNG of chest placement, which is where their objects go in the map: fixed chest locations in some maps can even force their placement to be worse, as can bringing chest offerings to the trial (expect a lot of these upon FNAF chapter launch since map offerings will also be nerfed and this interaction is relatively common knowledge).
The worst culprit for these is of course the Backwater Swamp maps, since their placement logic puts nearly everything on the edge of the map where they're really inaccessible and the forced chest in main buildings prevents a prop from spawning in a helpful location. They should really killswitch that realm until the rework is done.
-
You can basically boil down every Killer Power into a few components that are combined in various ways:
- Killer put thing down, thing mess with Survivors
- Killer go fast
- Killer teleport
- Killer go invisible/undetectable
- Killer throw thing
- Killer buff self
- Killer debuff Survivor
- Killer get info
-
Using Myers as an example of a good or interesting Killer design is seriously questionable. He's appallingly weak when he's not using his strongest addon, at which point he's still weak on most maps against competent Survivors but wrecks newbie teams who don't know how to deal with him yet. And his power is literally just looking at Survivors.
I'd much rather have a killer like Springtrap, who does have some wacky addons but whose fundamentals are powerful and interactive for both sides, than more dash slop or a F-tier byzantine mess like Onryo.
-
So on the one hand aura perks on Killer are useful for a lot of Killers but not for all of them: Killers that get info as part of their base Power or lack the ability to follow up on the info aura reading provides are better off using chase or slowdown perks, and less confident Killer players may need to use slowdown/regression to give them the time they need.
On Survivor, however, aura-reading and info perks are actually quite useful but they're crowded out by flashier, more popular perks. Kindred, Troubleshooter, Alert, Bond, Lucky Star et al are really useful for solo Survivors to fill in the communication that SWFs get for free. But 9 times out of 10 Survivors seem to go for chase perks, which are great when you get chased but less so when you're not being chased.
The problem with Distortion was that it both encouraged and enabled hiding and by extension encouraged and necessitated tunnelling and max slowdown for Killers (no point in using aura reading perks if they never work and if one person is affected and everyone else is hiding then a Killer is probably going to go for them repeatedly rather than waste time looking for other Survivors the hard way). Games where you can't find people are super frustrating as Killer and that's why I think stealth gameplay has been toned down recently.
-
Ormond Lake Mine is bad for everyone. It's not that big and has some unexpected dead zones, so Survivors often get caught out, and camouflage options are dreadful since it's all white with some pale blues that stand out massively. For Killer, the multiple disjointed floors, including the weird underground section, mean patrolling and chasing can be not so much difficult as really annoying, plus that ambient sound of tarps flapping in the wind that sound EXACTLY like Survivor footsteps is maddening because it's almost omnipresent, like having an oil drum fire in every tile. I don't think I've lost a Trial on that map yet as Killer but I hate it so much.
-
I'm sorry, but the game was really disappointing both critically and commercially. I watched a playthrough and while some of the characterisation was engaging, the DBD references were stupidly heavy-handed, the gameplay was uninteresting, the plot was bland and, more importantly, the player has no agency over the story whatsoever, which really matters in that kind of game. Your choices make no impact on the narrative 90% of the time, certain characters live or die regardless of decisions you make and even if something does change, nothing else in the game reflects it (the cutscenes are literally the same, down to the camera looking at an empty space where a character would have been).
The downgrade to a skin is BHVR cutting their losses on a failed project.
-
A lot of Killers don't need buffs so much as QoL changes/bug fixes. For example Houndmaster is a very strong Killer when her power works, but it often breaks and leaves you in the lurch (it also consistently doesn't work on certain maps like Autohaven maps becuase of the little pieces of garbage on the ground, or Forgotten Ruins because of the teleport mechanic): Twins regularly experiences game-breaking bugs, and Ghostface and Bubba have been bugged in one way or another since they launched. Ranged Killers could really benefit from an in-game targeting reticle or crosshairs since PC players can add one in externally anyway.
Other Killers have annoying 'loopholes' in their power that are very frustrating to deal with: the one that springs to mind is Wraith getting blocked at pallets and Windows by repeated Survivor vaults. Wraith, alongside PH, Pinhead, Nemesis, Oni and possibly others, could also benefit from an addon pass or rework, since theirs are generally boring, underwhelming or outdated in design, forcing you to run ths same ones every Trial.
Finally, some Killers aren't weak so much as difficult, unintuitive or just plain weird to play (like Artist, Twins or Singularity). They don't need buffs per se, since they can absolutely wreck even high MMR lobbies with enough practice, but they aren't easy to pick up so you'll struggle as a beginner. Plus, many Killers have maps that are very unpleasant for them (and basically all Killers are disadvantaged on some popular map offering locations like Gas Heaven, Garden of Joy and Eyrie of Crows) and it's the maps that need to change and not the Killer.
With all that being said, I'd argue that the Killers who need a straight-up rework are Trapper (before Skull Merchant got gutted he was the worst Killer in the game), Myers (has never been good except for his stupid Tombstone builds which are unhealthy for the game), Skull Merchant (she's getting one anyway), Hag (she's hard to learn but not rewarding to learn now Survivors can remove her traps as basekit, and is very outdated in her design) and Nurse (she's so oppressive that the rest of the game has to be balanced around her, but her base design is so beginner-unfriendly it artificially suppresses her average Kill Rate). Xenomorph and Sadako need substantial buffs, while Clown, Dredge and Pig could benefit from some changes to their kit and addons to make them better in higher MMR lobbies and less difficult in lower ones. The rest of the cast is honestly in an okay spot barring the aforementioned bug fixes, addon passes and QoL changes. Not every Killer can be the strongest, and there are actually some Killers who aren't very strong to whom I wouldn't want to give unqualified buffs for fear of what it will do to newer/more casual/worse Survivor players.
-
I quit for a few months at the height of the MFT Meta because it was just horrible to play into. I don't play S Tier Killers, and they were really the only ones that could deal with it without getting a stress headache. There were cheaters everywhere, the latest Killers (Knight, SM and Singu) were all in really rough places and I'd just hit the wall with MMR, having fewer than 500 hours but going up against players with over 4k hours. The matches were so horrible, so unenjoyable and so frequently toxic that the game was actually hurting my emotional wellbeing.
-
It would be so nice if the colours of auras, scratch marks and other effects could be edited. It would be so much easier as a colourblind person to be able to adjust them away from a shade that I find really hard to distinguish.
-
On its own it probably doesn't make a huge difference, but combine it with the removal of hook grabs and the increase to hook timers and camping, especially face camping, is really not a good strategy anymore.
-
So does that mean Ghoul will get 57 reworks, only for Survivors to still DC against him because they don't want to learn how the new, much weaker version of the power works, and then he will get so thoroughly gutted that he might as well not have a power at all explicitly because the balance team doesn't know how to fix it, in anticipation of yet another rework that may come out before or after the next mass extinction event?
Ghoul's strong, but he's not unsalvageable like OG Skull Merchant. if you removed Deep Wound from his kit and made Kagume Mark have a shorter expiration timer (so he can't constantly triple jump and benefit from Mark-related addons), he'd already be less oppressive. You could then see how he does statistically and keep adjusting numbers from there.
-
Killer Abandon/Surrender should be a better option. I just had a horrendous game on Garden of Joy (surprise surprise) where a very experienced group of Survivors (had on average 4 times my hours) beat me soundly on Pinhead, a difficult Killer I rarely play. Not only did they drag the game out when they realised I'd given up (1 hook during the whole game, went and stood in a corner and opened the gate as soon as I could), I had to wait the whole duration of the EGC because one of them wanted do a few victory laps of the map I guess?
It would have been faster to DC as soon as I knew I'd lost and just wait out the penalty, and I don't think that's a good way for things to be.
-
Myers needs a top-to-bottom redesign of his Power and add-ons. Evil Within is so antiquated and does not work with the way the game currently is. He's either totally useless or incredibly frustrating to play against depending on what addons and what map you've got, and neither is fun or healthy for the game.
-
Making Blight or Ghoul slower wouldn't make them less oppressive at the higher ends of play, it would just make them even worse at the lower ends where Killer players can't use their power properly. Moreover, half the problem with Nurse is that she is so reliant on her power because of her poor movement speed that they have to ensure her power is busted.
-
For me the appeal of Chaos Shuffle (aside from the rapidly diminishing returns of the novelty factor) lies in the fact that it's much less likely I'm going to run into the standard meta perks and instead maybe play around some more unusual ones for both sides. It's so refreshing to play a round of Killer where not every Survivor is running Finesse, Lithe, Windows and Resilience, and on Survivor it's a bit of a relief not to have to worry so much about Pain Res and Pop. Granted, this doesn't affect everyone equally: it's a lot easier to ignore bad perks as an oppressive Killer, while a low-tier Killer with bad perks can feel completely useless.
-
Maybe a little toxic, but it's not nearly as toxic as what the Survivor is doing in the first place: I do the same thing a lot of the time. If they really want or actually need to leave the trial they should DC, take the penalty for it and at least there's a bot that will do something, as opposed to the throwing or dead Survivor who will do nothing to help their team. The reason they may not do so is because they've already DCed a few times today and don't want the extended ban that would entail.
-
He has actually been nerfed a fair bit over the years, most recently in the add-on pass he received (though it took them a few goes to get it right) and in the changes to his collision so some of his techs were removed. He's still really strong though (I think a lot of it is in the speed at which he recovers his power and its innate ability to quickly destroy pallets).
However, his oppressiveness at high MMR is probably not going to force changes to his kit, since his higher-than-average skill floor means he's really difficult for newer Killers (especially on console), so his bad kill rate at low-MMR statistically 'balances out' his high-MMR dominance. The same is true for Nurse and Billy, while I'd imagine the reverse is true for Freddy and Vecna: they're pretty weak at higher levels of play, because their powers are a known quantity, while at lower levels the secondary objectives they require for counterplay are enough to confuse weaker Survivors and ensure their high kill rates.
-
@lettuchia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917923#Comment_3917923
How does it follow that hit and run shouldn't be discouraged just because it's already weak? It should be weak, just as tunneling should be, because it's an uninteractive and unskillful strat, one that also disproportionately screws over solo players who can't consisntently find each other to get healed or have comms on the killer's location.
Most of what you're describing, map knowledge and macro skill, is just general killer knowledge that's not unique to the dredge and only made easier for him thanks to having a mobility power. The only things he has that could be argued as skill expression are remnant placement, which is really the bare minimum and has a very low skill floor, managing locks, which again is the bare minimum and don't fully prevent dredge from getting free hits, and nightfall which is mostly charged by keeping survivors injured without having to put effort into getting downs.
I don't think he's overpowered, but he's very easy to play and encouraged to play with even less effort thanks to the main source of charging nightfall. On top of this the vfx from nightfall serves to restrict survivor's info, forcing them into a potential guessing game without having to put in any effort yourself.
Hit-and-run and tunnelling are arguably diametrically opposed strategies but you don't want either in the game. What do you want Killers to do if it's not acceptable to apply pressure evenly across the Survivor team or to apply it heavily to one Survivor, while being realistic that going for 8 hooks across 4 Survivors is not a feasible strategy in most trials? Moreover, it's far easier to counter hit-and-run than it is to fix tunnelling: bring a decent medkit, or some perk that lets you self-heal, or an aura perk that lets you find other Survivors more easily. There are plenty of good options for all of these but I never see Survivors bring these (whicever side I'm playing) because 90% of them all bring flashy chase perks instead of ones that might help their team survive.
Locker locks are, at least in principle, easy to deal with, but also easy for Survivors to apply. It's literally pressing a button in front of a locker. For Dredge it also breaks Bloodlust and removes momentum if they break locks from the outside, slowing you down if you're trying to chase a Survivor.
When Dredge charges his teleport, you can't see any of the map geometry you pass through, so you need to know where you're going to end up in relation to Survivor and tile positions, which is a skillset that's not unique to Dredge per se, but is peculiar to some (Freddy, Unknown and Dracula have similar mechanics). No Killer is totally unique in how they operate and what skills they require, otherwise learning more than one Killer would be insanely difficult.
I agree that Nightfall can be oppressive for new Survivors, and I wish they'd make some visual adjustments so it's not so bad on some monitors. But it's virtually a non-issue for experienced Survivors (or anyone who uses shaders).
-
@lettuchia said:
Remove him. He's fundamentally flawed by taking bare minimum skill to play and encouraged to hit and run
So many downvotes but only one response that isn't constructive, people really meatride this killer even with what is blatantly zero reasoning huh
Hit and run is a playstyle that in most circumstances is less effective than just focussing and tunnelling one Survivor out so I wouldn't discourage it, especially since it's not particularly strong right now anyway.
Dredge, while not requiring the same mechanical skill of, say, a Huntress, DOES require extensive map knowledge and understanding of the macro/win conditions of the Survivors you're facing, so you can reliably teleport to where they intend to go and cut them off. You also have to understand positioning and timing really well to get the benefit of the Remnant ability to anti-loop. Dredge isn't an overpowered Killer by any stretch of the imagination, though he can be a bit of a noobstomper during Nightfall because new Survivors struggle with Blindness and Undetectable Killers. You're the only person I've ever seen complain about the Dredge in such strong terms. Would you like to elaborate on why you dislike them so much? -
@terumisan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/443776/how-would-you-change-the-dredge
the only buff he needs is to add more lockers to maps
This 100%. If maps were more consistent in locker numbers and placement Dredge would be much better.
Dredge is also hurt by metas which enable rapid healing since Nightfall charges faster when Survivors are injured. The popularity of Resurgence, We’ll Make it et al is an indirect nerf to him, as is the prevalence of Syringes and really strong medkits.
-
Singu is really strong with a few caveats:
Indoor maps are a headache because your Biopods can't cover the same radius as normal and what surfaces count as applicable for them can be very arbitrary. RPD is a notorious candidate for this given all the weird textures on the walls. Big open maps/hybrid maps with a strong indoor section like Eyrie of Crows, Gas Heaven and Garden of Joy can also be difficult to appropriately cover with Biopods but these maps are bad for all Killers so that's not so special.
Co-ordinated Survivors can also cause a lot of problems for him in the same way they can for other set-up Killers, albeit to a lesser degree due to his faster set-up time. Intermittently using EMPs to disable his cameras outside of chase, as well as using them on a Survivor that he's chasing, disrupts his gameplay loop quite badly.
I love Singu and he's in a fairly good place after his changes, though some QoL on Biopod placement would be nice.
-
Let's break this down a little.
Ghoul was really, really strong when he first came out, and there were certain pain points with him that needed to be addressed. To what extent his hotfix changes actually deal with that I'm not sure but we'll have to wait and see. It's hardly the first time a Killer has been changed rapidly after release: there's only so much beta testing you can do, especially with different latencies, edge cases, and let's not forget DBD's weird spaghetti code. But it's not like Ghoul is now worse than Trapper with these changes.
Pentimento is a really nasty perk. Running it alongside strong hexes puts Survivors in a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't position: either put up with with Blood Favour, Ruin and Devour on an incredibly aggressive Singularity/Dracula/Houndmaster/etc, or spend a lot of time locating and cleansing totems (maybe even with Thrill extending that time) and THEN get hit with fat penalties to repair and heal speeds, or go cleanse the totems AGAIN while I get to chase you down knowing exactly where you've been thanks to Pentimento's location reveal. The changes to Pentimento are fair to me, though it may lead to worse winrates with Hex builds: then BHVR could sort out the really annoying RNG element of totem locations (and of having a Hex next to Survivor spawn being immediately cleansed at the start of the game, which could be easily resolved by having all Hexes only light up when their trigger condition is met).
Duty of Care might be a powerful perk, it's a little early to tell. But it has limited conditions to apply, can't be combined with other annoying haste perks thanks to the other PTB changes and furthermore relies on the game registering a Protection Hit, which is incredibly arbitrary and honestly quite janky. It could be one of these perks like Background Player where it's an issue for higher level players but not for lower ones, which would mean it could take a while to get adjusted, or it could be yet another perk for SWFs but not solo queue. Not all Killers are equally concerned with Protection Hits either: Trickster, Huntress, Onryo, Bubba and others basically don't care about them at all while Wraith, Ghostface or Slinger can really struggle to deal with them.
You don't have to agree with every decision the devs have made (and I don't), but just being insulting just makes you sound like a tantruming child and is not likely to endear anyone to your point of view.
-
Boon: Circle of Healing was first nerfed like 3 years ago and then a year ago, why are we having this discussion again?
Just as a recap, the strongest iteration of CoH allowed for like 3 second heals in its radius, and even the first nerfed version obviated nearly every healing perk for every Survivor in the lobby and made matches incredibly frustrating for Killer if you weren't playing Blight or Nurse at a decent level because injured Survivors could just run to the boon area and heal incredibly quickly while still being able to bring BNPs or other turbocharged Toolboxes to burn through gens. Finding the boon was a massive chore for Killer and didn't even resolve the problem for long because setting it back up wasn't an issue.
Ghoul was a little problematic in how strong some of his kit was, but he's been nerfed in the latest hotfix and more changes might be coming anyway. They are two totally different scenarios that have literally nothing to do with each other. You might as well ask why we got the first footage of a live colossal squid but the price of milk didn't go down.
-
Yep. First game after a break, was playing pre-QOL buffs Doctor on a particularly horrible iteration of a pre-nerf Coldwind (map offering obviously). Didn't bring Corrupt Intervention and there were 4 Distortions so a couple of gens popped before I could even find anyone. Survivors could just pre-run to a million safe structures in a row and I got a hit in before the final gen popped and they got Adrenaline and ran away. I just opened the gate and stood in a corner until they left.
-
@100PercentBPMain said:
They probably wanted raw, pure data regarding alternate methods to base generators.
My guess is that bhvr is thinking of something to combat 3 gens or something by offering an alternate route. It'd be harder to get that data if survivors lose the will to be test subjects because Freddy with Pain Res/DMS keeps teleporting to the blood gens. No thank you
They've already implemented some very effective anti-three-gen changes though, and I very rarely see them be the deciding factor in games anymore. Raw, pure data is also not what you'll get if Plague, Freddy et al can't actually interact with half the gens on the map.
-
Tunnelling has always been an issue no matter what changes are made because nobody's managed to solve the fundamental problem with asymmetrical games: the most effective strategy is nearly always to reduce the number of players. Several strong disincentives for tunnelling have been implemented (basekit BT, a suite of strong anti-tunnelling perks including most recently Shoulder the Burden, various anticamp features since camping enables tunnelling, longer time on hook, changing or nerfing perks that benefit from tunnelling such as Pain Resonance and Pop) but none of them have moved the needle much because the best slowdown for Killers is still sacrificing a Survivor as early as possible.
Moreover I've noticed a lot of Survivors make it easier for Killers to tunnel, whether it's by not bringing anti-tunnel perks (or bringing them and using them poorly), unhooking at bad times, bad positioning or failing to respect the Killer's capacity to down you again. I don't go out of my way to tunnel when I play Killer (gross map offerings and annoying gimmick builds aside), but deciding deliberately NOT to tunnel when you could and it would benefit you is basically a courtesy to the Survivors that comes at your own expense. You can play without tunnelling, you can even win without tunnelling often enough (MMR essentially forces you to get some kills sometimes) but it's harder and more stressful if you actually want to win and you're not playing a top-tier Killer.
I don't know how you fix it. One possibility is removing Survivor collision upon unhook for x seconds or until they perform a conspicuous action, so they can't be hit or affected by powers, bodyblocked or bodyblock themselves. Another might be a weaker basekit DS to at least slow down the pace at which a Survivor can be tunnelled, though this assumes it will still happen and creates even more feature creep that newer Survivors may not understand. More modest but potentially productive solutions could be looking at strong Killer perks and making more of them deactivate when a Survivor is sacrificed like the previous iteration of Hex: Ruin, effectively trading off the Killer's advantage of eliminating a Survivor early for strong lethality or slowdown perks. It would also be worth finding ways to empower solo queue Survivors in ways co-ordinated SWFs can't exploit, since co-ordination (and knowing your teammates aren't going to give up) is one of the best ways to manage tunnelling. At the same time as any of these, weaker Killers could receive buffs to enable non-tunnelling as a more viable strategy, and possibly stronger Killers who can easily chew through anti-tunnel protections could be reined in.
-
A whole bunch of Killer perks and powers (from Dragon's Grip to Hex: Ruin to Freddy Teleport to Pig Reverse Bear Traps) simply don't work on Blood Generators, and the additional objectives you have to monitor, especially in late game, put way more map pressure on the Killer than normal. There's also no new mechanics for Killers to benefit from, so it's arguably all downside and no upside for Killers.
That being said, the release of Ghoul has put a very oppressive new Killer into the mix that nobody's really learnt to outplay yet, and Survivors seem to be giving up at the drop of a hat even to other Killers (last night on my first match in a week I had a go next AND a DC at 2 gens left with 4 hooks across 3 Survivors when playing Clown of all things) so I think everyone's mental is just in shambles right now.
-
I've not played Ghoul yet but I was under the impression that the ability's aim assist was to make him playable for console players. There are already a lot of Killers that are extremely difficult to make work on console (Huntress, Trickster, Slinger, Pinhead, Oni et al) and without some latitude I think it would be impossible to land his Kagune Lunge using a controller.
This of course does not mean some of the really egregious hits I've seen should be a given, and it's completely unrelated to the other, highly oppressive aspects of his power like inflicting Deep Wound and the very generous Berserk timers that give you incredible mobility for very little. Whatever they do to Ghoul (and I think they're going to have to do something about him given the strength of feeling in the community and his undeniably pubstompy nature) I hope it's to some of these problematic points and not just taking a sledgehammer to his power à la Skull Merchant.