Vhillain
Vhillain
About
- Username
- Vhillain
- Joined
- Visits
- 668
- Last Active
Comments
-
@pseudechis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3376183#Comment_3376183
You’ve countered your own points again.
try and keep some consistency. It’s hard to follow what you are saying anymore.
I am annoyed but I’m not annoyed ok sure.
This thing happened once and swung the game ignoring all the times it had no real effect. It’s 7% But I’m not overstating it’s importance. Uh ok.
I’m paranoid about stopping an action as it breaks the game but it’s not challenging to the gameplay. Ok it seems to challenge you.
I’m not emotional but easily and quickly get agitated making me a lil irrational and defensive. No that’s fine.
I’m not scared because it’s not a horror game but I’m paranoid about stopping an action because of this. The aversion and paranoia is a part of your fight or flight response which is born of fear so I’d wager you are more afraid of it than you admit to yourself.
I’ve got a lot of opinions and have collected the opinions of others but I agree with those opinions so they must be fact. Ooh the great fallacy of mistaking your opinion for fact.
All I offered was an alternative rationale for not being annoyed by this mechanic and you fought tooth and nail to deny that I may have a point.
I want this mechanic removed… why because it annoying.
I hope they don’t remove it because I think it’s fine and if it annoys people and tilts them into playing poorly to the point they lose entire games over it than more power to it. Does the RNG lose games or does your overreaction to it lose games. Because the impact of the RNG is minimal at best out side of some very specific examples that from a gameplay perspective seem just fine to me.
Okay fine, I'll be consistent. Leave if it doesn't bother you.
-
@pseudechis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3376083#Comment_3376083
If a single one of these RNG events are enough to win or lose you the game then its was either snow balling for or against you to begin with.
You and a lot of the posters giving examples that you have praised have placed far to much emphasis on the impact of these events.
Lets just analyze one of your scenarios eh "if the killer chooses to drop the survivor to chase the friend the survivor has a 7% chance to instantly struggle free and recover from the dying state." That is pretty impactful beyond even the small ratio chance of it occurring and really is a bit of a silly example. So yeah making extreme examples to make you point seem more relevant without any real logical or rational point to it other than "imagine this then!" is a really weak way to argue a point.
There isn't a trip mechanic but if the chances were small enough it probably wouldn't be that game breaking to stall a chase from time to time. Just as its not that game breaking to whiff a hit due to aim dressing from time to time these are not extreme examples whereas yours is basically a mechanic that just undoes all benefits gained and why is here's why RNG is bad because of crazy beyond ridiculous example. Couldn't you tell the lack of logic here in you own point.
Almost all game have an RNG element even PVP ones that add some form on increase or decrease to outcome success. About the only fixed variable game out there is chess and game like it. A lot of these are as simple as variable spawn point, map or item iteration.
Because overcharge and merciless storm don't work like that read their perk descriptions.
"You also still have yet to mention how any of your points are beneficial to a pvp gameplay experience."
Here is my post on PVP and general game fun and how RNG element is beneficial even if the game is PVP.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3375579#Comment_3375579
- You can get this challenging experience even if you aren't currently interacting with the killer making even the solo game interesting - first point applicable to PVP setting.
I think you hyperfocus on the concept that player has to be the sole input in a PVP setting. It usually isn't and when it is it often leads to very formulaic game design.
Still all this is for naught because at the very heart of this discussion is your rational for the removal of said mechanic which is... it annoys you... frankly that isn't enough of a reason to rework how the game works.
Furthermore what you've provided in all this highly verbose back and forth amounts to not much more than "hey it still annoys you" So I go back to my original point, which you were very quick to jump on,...
Perhaps a change of perspective is in order, here are some rational ways to change that perspective and not be annoyed by something that kinda works thematically and has minimal impact practically.
Now we've truly come full circle, your options are to be annoyed or not, reconsider what I've already said or remain annoyed it makes no difference to me, I'm not annoyed by it for the reasons outlined.
"If a single one of these RNG events are enough to win or lose you the game then its was either snow balling for or against you to begin with." Situation last night - 2 gens left, teammate on death hook and injured, comes up to me for healing, i let go, generator explodes, killer is now alerted to our position and immediately comes (he wasn't that far away), happily taking their free kill, ignoring me attempting to bodyblock, and the game becoming a 3v1 which snowballed into a loss because of a 7%. We were in a winnable position until this happened. These kind of situations are a lot more common than you may think, they are definitely impactful.
"You and a lot of the posters giving examples that you have praised have placed far to much emphasis on the impact of these events." Because the event and it's impact is important to proving the point. These aren't feelings, these aren't hypotheticals, these are facts, but when I provide facts and examples it's "too much emphasis".
"There isn't a trip mechanic but if the chances were small enough it probably wouldn't be that game breaking to stall a chase from time to time. Just as its not that game breaking to whiff a hit due to aim dressing from time to time these are not extreme examples whereas yours is basically a mechanic that just undoes all benefits gained and why is here's why RNG is bad because of crazy beyond ridiculous example. Couldn't you tell the lack of logic here in you own point." Just because something doesn't completely break the game does not mean it isn't worth addressing and changing. Sometimes people don't get their Adept achievements due to a bug, this bug does not functionally change the game at all, but was addressed, because it was an issue. Issues get changed because people talk about them and make them known. The steam achievements didn't matter to me because I completed every achievement in the game when they were working on a fix, but I am happy they did fix it nonetheless. You know why? Because I support changes to the game that will make people happy and enjoy it more, even if it has no impact on my own game or that I don't care about. Is this perspective wrong?
"Almost all game have an RNG element even PVP ones that add some form on increase or decrease to outcome success. About the only fixed variable game out there is chess and game like it. A lot of these are as simple as variable spawn point, map or item iteration" Yes, but these examples you pointed out can be positive or negative and it's a gamble that even DBD has regardless of which side you choose, it's also ACCEPTABLE RNG. In most cases the RNG you provide as an example does not purely negatively impact the players as it gets balanced out by the positives: "I got The Game on GhostFace and hate my life" is then "I got Midwich on Sadako and life is good". There is never a situation where these random automatic fail skillchecks are positive, they only happen in situations where it will hinder your gameplay as a survivor. You only let go of interactions to do something else that is more important at the moment.
"You can get this challenging experience even if you aren't currently interacting with the killer making even the solo game interesting" It's not challenging though, it's an automatic fail that harms the gameplay experience, there's nothing "challenging" about letting go of an interaction.
"Still all this is for naught because at the very heart of this discussion is your rational for the removal of said mechanic which is... it annoys you... frankly that isn't enough of a reason to rework how the game works." The annoyance is a factor that comes from the core problem of being punished by a random chance that is not in the influence of either side by attempting to make the most optimal play for your team, but sure, keep saying it's ALL emotional and that this invalidates any argument I could make. Whatever makes you feel like you have the high ground. I'm not asking them to rework the game at all, I'm asking for a single mechanic to not auto fail, this is not too much to ask for, and still you argue as if your opinion is the only one that matters, that we are all just silly little guys who don't want to be scared in scary game.
"Now we've truly come full circle, your options are to be annoyed or not, reconsider what I've already said or remain annoyed it makes no difference to me, I'm not annoyed by it for the reasons outlined." This is a very narrow minded choice, there are more than two options. We can also come here and ask the developers directly to reconsider the mechanic. I'm not annoyed by this mechanic most of the time that it comes up, because you are right that it isn't impactful all of the time, but that doesn't mean there aren't situations where this mechanic does have an influence, and this influence does need to be addressed. Will it negatively impact your gameplay experience if they removed the auto skillcheck fail? Or will it genuinely not matter? If you aren't annoyed by it, I would hope you choose the latter and leave us alone, so it can be changed for the people that it actually does matter to.
-
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3376018#Comment_3376018
The reality is if the mechanic makes sense functionally and thematically
This is the part that you don't get: This does not make any sense functionally or thematically.
Thematically, because DBD is not a horror game. And even if it were, this doesn't 'add tension'. When a gen blows up when I let go of it, I'm not feeling any kind of scary tension. I just get annoyed. Scary would be good, but this is just annoying. No one is getting scared over their gen blowing up on its own when they let it go.
And functionally, because this kind of game design is liked by probably less than 1% of the playerbase. Random chance to lose has always been a terrible element in any game that implements it, which is why no one does implement it. The only other instance I can think of was the tripping mechanic in Smash Bros Brawl, which people -loathed-, and it was removed in following instalments in the series.
Additionally, invasive RNG like that runs counter to the value of the game. Your example of a chance of fumbling a fast vault would directly reduce player agency. You can practice your looping and you can master a specific cell and know how to run it against every killer. But all that skill expression gets tossed out of the window when the game randomly dictates that you lose, through no fault of your own.
This component of the game is just plain awful and should be fixed.
"And functionally, because this kind of game design is liked by probably less than 1% of the playerbase. Random chance to lose has always been a terrible element in any game that implements it, which is why no one does implement it. The only other instance I can think of was the tripping mechanic in Smash Bros Brawl, which people -loathed-, and it was removed in following instalments in the series."
This is a great point, because even if something does make sense thematically, that does not mean that it is functionally healthy for the game. DBD is not an "E-sport" as was pointed out, but that doesn't mean the game is not competitive and does not have competitive play. Literally the ENTIRE game is Player Versus Player in Ranked matches, we don't even have the choice to play non-ranked. Tripping in Smash Bros makes sense due to arenas, sweat, character exhaustion etc but at the end of the day the random chance for failure, no matter how realistic it is, at it's core an awful mechanic that is negatively impacting an experience that neither side can control and would impact matches, hence it's removal from the series.
When we play a game that involves PvP we do not want to be playing with fire, I want to know that when I push the jump button, that my character will jump, I don't want to worry that there is a small chance that instead of jumping my character will instead stumble and be free hits for the enemy, I just want to jump. Just like when I want to cancel an interaction, I want to cancel the interaction, not suffer from a hidden penalty because of WHEN I chose to let go. There's even certain perks in this game that encourage letting go to either avoid negatives or gain benefits.
-
@pseudechis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3375734#Comment_3375734
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3375707#Comment_3375707
Ah the ol how would you feel if they implemented this extreme hyperbolic scenario argument.
The reality is if the mechanic makes sense functionally and thematically almost any RNG can add a lil flavour to the game. One good example would be if you had a chance to trip when performing fast vaults that prevented you from getting the speed boost. Running full speed and jumping through a window is risky business and a small chance of failure would keep it interesting.
For your killer swing example, aim dressing does this to some extent, when you are amongst a bunch of trash or bushes there is a change your swing will autotune you to smack a barrel or a tree. This is appropriate as swinging around a weapon amongst a heap of obstacles should grant a chance of failure not present when swinging at someone in the open.
I don't need to rely on extreme examples to make my point just logical ones.
In the specific case being discussed here the 7% chance for an auto failing skill check when stopping a task. Maybe your objection stems from the fact that a skill check spawns. Perhaps just having a 7% chance of gen exploding or heal failing when stopping early representing the chances you fumble when stopping abruptly.
That way people wouldn't interpret it as an auto failing skill check and feel helpless when it happens, rather its just a thematic risk to stopping an action early. Which mixes up gameplay and is mechanically and thematically appropriate.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3375707#Comment_3375707
None of this really answers the points made. Re-read it please and try again or not I don't mind either way, basically you are going in circles and I've answered all the counter points you made already so unless you can offer further rational for them then there's not much point really.
"Extreme hyperbolic scenario"? Sorry I thought it was "spice of life that keeps things interesting" and "RNG keeps things exciting" , but I guess it can't work both ways can it? Suddenly another situation that is a similar scenario on the other side is a ridiculous comparison.
"One good example would be if you had a chance to trip when performing fast vaults that prevented you from getting the speed boost." So we can't give examples to fit our point, but you can? What makes this not an "extreme hyperbolic scenario"? You realize in my example the reason it is similar is because the killer could choose to cancel their objective and be punished for cancelling by random chance. It's a direct comparison to the core issue, your example is "people should always have a chance to miss out regardless of what they do" how is this a good argument? It completely misses the mark. It impacts the pvp experience. When you lose to RNG it feels #########, when you win because of someone else's bad RNG it feels dirty, or unrewarding/unshowing of your actual skill as a player, at least it does for me. I don't like being handed wins, personally.
"For your killer swing example, aim dressing does this to some extent" And guess what? People want to opt out of aim dressing too, it's another thing in this game that bothers me amongst many other players substantially. Losing due to factors that are out of your control.
"That way people wouldn't interpret it as an auto failing skill check and feel helpless when it happens, rather its just a thematic risk to stopping an action early. Which mixes up gameplay and is mechanically and thematically appropriate." Well unfortunately it IS an auto failing skillcheck, and no change in perspective can sway from the raw facts. You've mentioned arguing from emotions before, but I see a lot more "meh I don't care I like RNG" coming from you while I put down plenty of examples, references, as well as questions still left unanswered, see: "You did not provide examples from other games that you claim have RNG involved that can swing a win or loss, I'd ask you to back up this claim" or "Why does Overcharge and Merciless Storm which are actual killer perks not punish you for letting go, but random chance does?" (Paraphrased)
You also still have yet to mention how any of your points are beneficial to a pvp gameplay experience. You keep bringing up horror as if that's anything and everything this game is about. Something being "interesting" for your gameplay doesn't mean it is balanced for a pvp experience, if keeping things interesting was always the intention the Finishing Mori and Basekit Unbreakable would have already been passed through, but maybe things being interesting isn't all that it's about is it? This game has plenty of fun to be had without needing these random skillchecks to add supposed "flavor".
-
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3375564#Comment_3375564
Why should you have perfect result when “not doing anything wrong” as you put it.
A 'perfect result' would be hitting the great skillcheck. We're talking about not getting punished for not failing something.
A little RNG keeps things exciting and adds risk to even good decisions. Taking that away makes the game more bland and predictable. Which is a bad thing.
How would you feel if we applied this logic everywhere? Whenever the killer swings, there's a 4% chance they drop their weapon instead. Whenever you try to drop a pallet, there's a chance you accidentally down yourself. Whenever you pick a hex perk, there's a 5% chance it just fails to spawn.
Furthermore the rationale for taking it away here is I don’t like missing the skill check when I choose to 99 something rather than finish it, get rid of it so I don’t t have to worry about it.
That's not at all what's being argued here! Practically no one 99s gens or heals. People 99 the exit gate, but guess what? That thing doesn't get skill checks!
As for it not being a horror game last time I checked Texas chainsaw massacre, Halloween and nightmare on elm street weren’t romantic comedies.
That's part of the 'horror setting, not horror game'.
”It had a horror setting but it’s not a horror game” I’m pretty sure a game where the goal is to not get slaughtered by a homicidal maniac could be called a horror game. Just because it’s devolved into a Scooby doo loopy chase farce over the years doesn’t mean it isn’t still in the horror genre. The only thing that makes dbd less of a horror game is the loss consequences for survivors when playing thus reducing game tension.
If that is all it takes to be a horror game, literally every MOBA is a horror game. Camazotz, Urgot, Pudge and Azmodan would make SMITE, LoL, DotA and HotS into horror games. Are they? Are they really?
Yes, it is in the horror genre. But it is not a horror game. The gameplay does not revolve around horror. Ask anyone who's played this for more than two hours how scary the game is and they'll rate it around a 3 out of 10.
The more tense the survivor experience the more interesting the game. The RNG adds to that tension and is a good thing.
RNG might, but not this. This just adds frustration and imbalance to a competitive PvP game.
But you know what? You can have what you want.
Just make an opt-in toggle for random events to screw you over, so you can get your RNG horror, and everyone else can just play the game.
"How would you feel if we applied this logic everywhere? Whenever the killer swings, there's a 4% chance they drop their weapon instead. Whenever you try to drop a pallet, there's a chance you accidentally down yourself. Whenever you pick a hex perk, there's a 5% chance it just fails to spawn."
Thank you, I was thinking of arguing something along these lines myself, very well said. If survivors can get punished for attempting to make the right play in their objectives, I guess we should just add a random punishment to everything because it's "exciting" and "horrifying". Imagine if killers were carrying someone to a hook, and the hook got sabotaged, even though they carried for 4 seconds and the base wiggle timer is 16 seconds, if the killer chooses to drop the survivor to chase the friend the survivor has a 7% chance to instantly struggle free and recover from the dying state. Imagine the outrage of killer players? Their objective would be set back, their character would be stunned, and all they attempted to do was make the right play given circumstance - cancel their objective temporarily to change targets in the meantime.
It certainly sounds quite ridiculous when we put the same kind of circumstances to different objectives.
-
@pseudechis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3375653#Comment_3375653
So the tension and paranoia you described at having to worry about whether you'll get this skill check failure isn't exciting?
"this game has this constant state of paranoia that you don't WANT to let go because if you get one of those badly timed 7% chance skill checks you will automatically miss no matter what because the game said so, and then whatever plan you had is immediately backfired." From your OP.
One could make the argument in this setting that risk = excitement.
My point is that guaranteed success is less exciting than the RNG provided by the thrill of potential failure.
This RNG does go either way, you either get the skill check or you don't that's the RNG. When you don't get it you automatically succeed and when you do you fail but the latter is far less likely than the former (7%) making it relatively balanced.
If you re-read our exchanges we haven't really gone in circles I've addressed each point directly as you've brought it up. I accept where you are coming from but I don't think you've really thought it through.
To sum up
- A heightened state of tension is appropriate for the setting
- The RNG nature of the autofail skill check creates this tension
- It happens rarely enough to not be a common occurrence but is persistent enough of a threat to make it an ongoing concern/consideration helping maintain thematic game tension
- If it doesn't occur you auto succeed making auto success the more common outcome, this makes viable positive and negative outcomes for the RNG. The action in this case is choosing to stop an interaction
- Even if stopping an interaction is the right choice it ensures that all choices have some inherent risk making the game exciting and challenging
- You can get this challenging experience even if you aren't currently interacting with the killer making even the solo game interesting
All of these points seem positive to me and make for a better game.
"So the tension and paranoia you described at having to worry about whether you'll get this skill check failure isn't exciting?" I have already clarified what I meant by tension and paranoia. No, it is not exciting, it is irritating and out of the control of the players in many cases.
"One could make the argument in this setting that risk = excitement." One could make that argument, one could also disagree with that argument and say that it is frustrating for a pvp atmosphere. You did not provide examples from other games that you claim have RNG involved that can swing a win or loss, I'd ask you to back up this claim. As it is extremely doubtful that other balanced pvp games have RNG of this level that there isn't something you can actually do about it. Finding a bad gun in a chest in Escape From Tarkov is bad RNG sure but a skilled player can still use the gun for some headshots. No good DBD survivor player can use this skillcheck to gain an advantage of some sort, it's a net negative.
"My point is that guaranteed success is less exciting than the RNG provided by the thrill of potential failure." There's no guaranteed success. You still have to pass the skill check. Stop ignoring this point. We don't want an AUTOMATIC failure in letting go, we want to have the chance of success, you have this completely backwards and are telling me that I have the wrong perspective on it.
"If you re-read our exchanges we haven't really gone in circles I've addressed each point directly as you've brought it up. I accept where you are coming from but I don't think you've really thought it through." We are going in circles, you have brought up this "excitement" or "it's a horror game so it needs this" on a few different occasions now and I am tired of arguing how this feature does not make the game scarier or more fun, or even exciting, it just makes common interactions have a random punishment when you decide to cancel and it has a bigger impact than actual killer PERKS in this game in their entirety, but not once have you addressed this point.
You are not "auto succeeding" by letting go, you are just choosing to cancel, this has no benefit to the interaction at all, it is a net neutral. The fix we are asking for that I have made blatantly clear is that skillchecks function like overcharge so you still *have to pass it* for the generator to not explode. You argue as if we just want to let go to avoid skillchecks, this is not true. Nobody is asking for an auto pass, we are asking for the auto fail to be removed. Not wanting a potential failure is not the same as wanting an automatic win.
-
@pseudechis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3374478#Comment_3374478
I still disagree, even from a pvp perspective. Not every element in a pvp game has to be due to player interaction.
If you never had any negative impact on your game outside of interaction with the killer then basically if not interacting with the killer you are guaranteed success in what you’re doing. That doesn’t sound very balanced or interesting does it?
There is an element of failure even when not interacting with the killer. Skill checks are going to pop up at random. Doesn’t matter if your goal is to finish the objective or 99 it, when you release you may get that bad outcome and that’s ok.
That lil bit of RNG keeps things exciting. You are making the right choice but still have to risk a bad outcome when doing so. Just because you make what you feel is the right choice doesn’t mean you should be guaranteed success.
In this case it’s even more appropriate given the theme of the game. I have considered your perspective and I’ve found it lacking in validity. By your own admission you described it as annoying, which is an emotional reaction.
So I say again it’s a good mechanic that keeps things exciting maybe lowering your expectation of always being rewarded when you feel you are right might make the game less annoying for you. It shouldn’t be annoying it should be fun and a bit of RNG unpredictability is part of the fun.
It's not exciting to let go of a generator to avoid pain resonance/DMS and the gen double explode to lose 26% progress. But we can agree to disagree. I'll say one final time, it's a skill check. "skill" being the key word. It's not "rewarding" to still have to hit a skill check, but it's not punishing automatically, which is the entire point, there are no situations where this random skillcheck you cannot react to is positive to gameplay, RNG is supposed to go either way, not be purely negative. If we cannot agree on this then I am done talking to you as this is going in circles and utterly pointless, you find my points lacking in validity, I find yours. Lets drop it.
-
@LismJack said:
One time i was injured (can't heal )and do the gens with a Feng , we are doing the gens to 90% , then the killer is coming , I want to leave soon because I'm injured, so I let out the gen , it end up a skill check and boom .
Feng can't finish the gen by herself because of that stupid skill check , imagine if that gen is important like the last gen and that is the only chance you can repair it to 100% .
Although it is a rare situation , but when it happen , it is so damn Frustrating and I will just quit the game after the match .
Thank you for another example of this annoying mechanic - in the days following this post I have seen a minimum of 10 situations in my own games where this one mechanic has singlehandedly changed the outcome, or at least had a major impact on the game.. I'm tired of it.
-
@Phantom_ said:
This is a "mechanic" the Devs don't seem to care about at all. It has been in the game for as long as I can remember. Sometimes you won't even see the skill-check animation just a sound and obviously miss it.
Otzdarva has calculated the chances of this happening, as best as he could, and there is almost always a 7% chance of this happening whenever a survivor lets go of a gen; he has even made a video on it. This sometimes makes gens regress more than some of the killer perks lmao, but what do the devs care about fixing these sort of "mechanics"?! 🤷
Yeah I actually posted the Otzdarva video on this earlier in this thread! Someone else said this is a "wanted" feature and that's why the devs aren't changing it, but I can assure you it is absolutely an "unwanted" feature by many and should be reconsidered.
-
@Hi_Im_Chucky said:
I disagree. Killer main but I play survivor to 70/30. As a survivor, I’m a Gen Jockey for sure, I’d rather enjoy watching others play around with the Killer while I pop gens, specifically since earning BP is less important to me. So, I enjoy the level of tension the RNG skill checks give and the decision to gamble on a play decision is exciting. Sometimes you roll the dice and lose but that’s the spice of life and I laugh it off.
In fact having other Survivors mess up on a Gen is probably the highlight of my survivor experience, it’s hella funny and a tiny f-up that could snowball out of control. What’s not to love? We gotta deal with bad RNG out of our control all the time in this game. It’s what keeps it interesting, you guys are really trying to create perfect maps, perfect RNG for windows and pallets, perfect skill check fail safes. It’s not a E-Sport, it’s a Party game lol.
Guess I’m the odd-ball but you guys sound crazy to me. Anyway, hope you guys fail hard on getting this change, but totally respect your right to voice your opinion and no hard feelings about sharing a different opinion~
Thank you for your opinion. I'm glad you have found a way to enjoy this, but sadly not all of us can have fun and laugh when this mechanic hits at the worst times. This is the only thing I have ever asked the devs to change in this game seriously, I find many things annoying but when you say "you guys are really trying to create perfect maps, perfect RNG for windows and pallets, perfect skill check fail safes. It’s not a E-Sport, it’s a Party game lol." I want you to know you are not talking about me. I don't expect any of these, nor do I ask for them. Rarely do I ever even so much as mention them.
"We gotta deal with bad RNG out of our control all the time in this game." Yes, as I have said many times sometimes you just get screwed by things and not everything is in your control - but it was in control of one side or the other and how they played it. This mechanic can be completely out of the control of either side. I have said many times I am okay with losing, it is part of the game, but not when there's nothing you did wrong. Letting go of an interaction isn't, and should never be viewed by a game mechanic as, a mistake worthy of punishment. See again, overcharge and merciless storm, which are actual killer perks that provide benefits or no negative influence to letting go during a skillcheck. So why does random chance provide a negative?
Why pray for our failure in getting a change that is actually beneficial to the gameplay experience? If this change goes through nobody will be upset that it's gone, but those who suffer from the negatives will definitely be happy. Like I have said many times, this is "skill checks" we are talking about, your "skill" should not be rated by whether you were still interacting or not, fundamentally this mechanic does not even make sense, and we are not asking for some out of this world fix. We still want to have to do the skill check, we just want to actually have the chance to pass it in situations where we had to let go. Letting go and losing 10% progress instantly is not fun for everyone, even if it is for you.
-
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3374458#Comment_3374458
DBD is not a horror game. It uses horror for its setting, worldbuilding and aesthetics, but it's not a horror game.
"I want 0 chance of failure when I'm trying to do something."
That is not at all what's being argued. A better summary would be 'I want zero chance of failure when I'm not doing anything wrong'.
Thank you for pointing this out, never once did I say or imply anywhere on this thread I want 0 chance of failure when trying to do something. It's okay to lose sometimes. That comes with pvp games, but you shouldn't lose when doing the right thing by something you or the killer don't actually influence
-
@pseudechis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372704#Comment_3372704
Lets look at the elements that make this an uncomfortable outcome.
I happens at random - fear the unknown.
I has consequences you can't avoid - Fear the reprisal
There are no positives about it - Fear the consequences.
Nothing in this setting comes without risk making it a great survival horror experience.
"Cancelling an interaction for the benefit of your team should not have an invisible risk attached to it"... Seriously I mean just re-read this in the context of what you are asking for. I want to do stuff risk free in a horror survival setting.
Actions contain risk and that risk is healthy for the game given the theme.
If you want a risk free happy experience then a horror environment might not be the setting for it.
Its like going to see a scary movie with lots of gore and being upset that you felt uncomfortable when you were paranoid about being scared and seeing lots of gore.
Its a perfectly positive mechanic in the context of this game's setting and induces the very emotions that a horror setting is meant to induce.
Stop asking for the horror experienced to be watered down because you don't like the risk involved.
"I'm not scared when I'm trying to 99 a team mates heal" ok great you aren't scared... but you are trying to 99 a mechanic and want to be able to do that without any form of risk or repercussion,
"I want 0 chance of failure when I'm trying to do something." Doesn't sound like a good change to me. The game doesn't have to adapt to your inability to handle failure. And yes being annoyed at what happens (as you describe yourself) is a you problem not a game problem.
This is positive in a horror perspective yes, but negative in a player versus player experience. This game is not balanced around horror, it's balanced around PVP. These situations impact the PVP experience 100% negatively and should be addressed. Perhaps you should take another perspective before telling someone else to.
-
@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373576#Comment_3373576
Because you don't like it doesn't make it unhealthy. Messing up repairing a generator to which these characters would have no experience doing is completely normal. Especially if a monster is breathing down your neck.
The reason Overcharge stays on screen is because survivors would commonly tap a regressing gen before doing something else. Not having the chance to hit a insta skillcheck would have been seen as unfair.
I have given several reasons that are valid and anything but "I don't like it". The one here giving lackluster arguments at best here is you.
"Messing up repairing a generator to which these characters would have no experience doing is completely normal. Especially if a monster is breathing down your neck." is not an acceptable defense for skilled survivors in a *player versus player* atmosphere to be punished for something they cannot do anything about in numerous situations. You cannot say that survivors messing up a generator randomly out of their control is fair and realistic but being given the chance to pass a *difficult to repair skill check* is not and would be seen as unfair if it worked that way. This doesn't even make sense by your own analogy. The survivors know they are getting an insta skillcheck, but they tap the gen anyways, why are they NOT punished for this?
I'm not saying Overcharge should punish people for tapping gens, but I am saying that your argument falls flat in trying to defend the random skillchecks you cannot react to with "realism" and the overcharge skillchecks with "fairness". Guess what? A lot of us are seeing these random regressions as unfair.
-
@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373568#Comment_3373568
It would be unhealthy if a Dev programmed it in. But it's random chance.
It's unhealthy because it's random chance though. That's the entire problem with it. You shouldn't have a random chance ever to have a situation suddenly out of your control. Especially a "skill check" not a "are you still on the interaction right now?" check. There's a difference between a survivor losing a 50/50 at a loop, and a survivor sticking to a generator until their teammate dies because their generator is 90% and they don't want it to explode when they leave to rescue. The devs have shown this can be fixed with us having overcharge skillchecks already in the game, and merciless storm allowing you to let go without it blowing up the generator. Why do killers have perks that wont guaranteeably blow up the generator, because survivors let go, but survivors have a random chance of blowing it up by letting go at any point in the game?
Edit: Especially a "skill check" not a "are you still on the interaction right now?" check.
-
@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373170#Comment_3373170
"Does it matter if it blows up" is what I was implying.
Still yes, if it blows up it's a free 10% regression immediately before they have even kicked it. Does this matter on a gen with 15% progress? not so much. Does it matter on a gen with 85% progress? absolutely. Once again we're back to situations where the survivor wanted to make the right play and got punished by a game mechanic that wasn't in the control of the survivor or the killer. Hence why it is unhealthy game design.
Edit: "the survivor" instead of "you"
-
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373300#Comment_3373300
And I agreed with the OP and all for bringing it the attention of the devs.
But the fact of the matter is until the devs do make a change (and yes, I'm all for making posts about it) we are stuck with what we have. Personally, it's not a huge issue for me. Am I not allowed to share my experience because it doesn't 100% match the OPs? This doesn't mean I don't agree it should be changed. Once again I'll ask, why do you have such an issue with discussing ways other people deal with it in its current state? And, no just mentioning our strategies around it will not make the devs think there is no issue. If that was the case Eruption would have never been changed because evetime a post was made about that people also posted about their ways of dealing with it.
I don't have an issue with people providing solutions to the issue in a majority of cases, but as Bartlaus pointed out I am aware and do practice this solution already, whenever it is possible - my entire post is about the situations where you can't practice this solution because of how situations line up in the game. Sometimes you just have to let go, being told "just don't let go" is absolutely dismissive to the issue I am trying to point out, and if you do practice this in EVERY situation of the game, it would most certainly do more harm than good.
Again, I am not trying to argue with you here, but you and many others are constantly shifting your focus away from the issue that I have spent this entire thread trying to highlight. The solution you guys are providing is not a solution to the problem I am talking about.
I 100% agree that this solution works in most cases of any interaction involving skillchecks, but my problem is that it is only "most" cases when it should be "all" or, if my suggestion is followed through, "never", because that would solve it as a whole. And that is why I have suggested a change. I appreciate your feedback, I just wish it was more widely understood what I am actually pointing out.
Edit: or, if my suggestion is followed through, "never", because that would solve it as a whole.
-
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372713#Comment_3372713
10% is a sizeable chunk, and it can happen in sequence. If two survivors let go of a gen and both of them get this triggering, that's 1/5th of a whole gen gone for no reason.
One friend of mine had it happen three times in a short span because they were trying to let go of the gen to heal me, got sucked back onto the gen (One interact button, yay!), then it broke again when they let go, then later, when the killer showed up, it broke again when she let go.
That's 30% gen regression through no fault of hers.
Whole-ass killer perks are not as impactful as this dumb mechanic.
This, and in my other posts I forgot to mention Pain Resonance/DMS as another source of this issue, the issue often does come up where you go to let go of the gen because someone is being hooked and it double explodes because of the RNG skillcheck + pain res explosion. Pain res plus this mechanic is over a quarter of a generator gone, even though you attempted to make the right play (letting go before they get hooked) And then that quarter progress lost becomes even more if the killer is also running DMS, which they usually do if they are running Pain Res. We can't just "wait for a skillcheck" if we are trying to counter another mechanic.
-
@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372356#Comment_3372356
Does it matter at that point? Killer already knows where you are. Killer is just going to kick it anyways.
"Don't let go until you've completed a skill check" yeah it does, they will get grabbed, your words, not mine.
-
@Doomzilla said:
I cannot believe this thread exists 1.
I cannot believe this thread was met with anything but a laugh from the general DBD audience 2.
I cannot believe there are people who agree that RNG shouldn’t have an impact on survivor gameplay… I’m not even going there, not gonna make it one of those threads, we all know that is a ridiculous ask, right?
Thanks for your contribution. No, what we ask for is most certainly not ridiculous, but you are welcome to have your opinion, just like we can have ours. I play both sides constantly and can guarantee the RNG that killers face is not the same as this single feature that survivors suffer from, regardless of how out of your control it feels. See killer mains with massive win streaks for example who wont lose just because of "bad RNG". Even a competitive player can get smacked with a skillcheck at the exact time they let go. How is this healthy? Killers still have control over how they play, what killer they play, how they use their powers etc and they can bring offerings if they don't like/want to play certain maps. I'm not one to complain about most features of the game because I honestly quite enjoy it on both sides even when it can be frustrating sometimes, but there's a difference between RNG you can control and RNG you cannot. We are asking for the RNG that you cannot control to be replaced with a replacement feature that is not only already in the game, but works consistently (overcharge skillchecks). If you do not agree, you are welcome to go elsewhere instead of saying this thread is "laughable".
-
@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372704#Comment_3372704
Stop defending this mechanic as if it's something positive, it is not.
I think it is. Unpredictability is an important aspect of this game and things would be way more boring without it, I'd prefer dynamic chaos over static consistency. The devs are right to keep it in the game for this reason. Besides, missing a skillcheck isn't really that big of a deal most of the time.
The skill checks are unpredictable already. I'm not asking for them to be removed, I'm asking for you to still have the chance to pass them even if you let go of the interaction. Being forced into a 10% regression randomly is not fun, interactive, or healthy game design.
"most of the time" it is not yes, you are right about that, but the problem is that this can literally turn the tides of a game, I'm not sure how many times I have to keep saying that I am not talking about the 93% you can do something about, I'm talking about the 7% that you can't. When my gen explodes or my heal automatically regresses I am not saying "Yay this is fun dynamic chaos that makes me enjoy a horror game!" and neither are any other survivors I play with on comms. We are saying "omg i left my 80% gen after not having a single skillcheck pop up for 60 seconds before going to rescue the teammate that had 20 seconds left before second stage and it immediately exploded and now the killer kicked it with call of brine overcharge, im back at the 80d gen which is now 50 but he's patrolling the area ". This is not fun. You wait for the skillcheck and your teammate potentially loses another hook stage, you leave and it explodes. Yes I know it doesn't ALWAYS happen, but the problem is that it happens at all, this is my focus. I do not care about the times where it has no impact, I care about the times that it does, and then the impact is major.
You should be able to leave and still pass the skillcheck.
-
@pseudechis said:
"you just simply want to let go early for other reasons (rescue teammate, killer is nearby, etc) and this game has this constant state of paranoia that you don't WANT to let go because if you get one of those badly timed 7% chance skill checks you will automatically miss no matter what because the game said so, and then whatever plan you had is immediately backfired."
Its meant to be scary and risky to do things in DBD. That's why they call it survival horror.
Its horrifying.
Shouldn't you be glad that the game can instill that kind of paranoid fear about even stopping a task. It mean DBD is doing its job instilling a great sense of fear and consequence like a great horror experience should.
I'd say you are looking at this the wrong way and should appreciate that this game can still make you feel scared and/or paranoid.
"Horrifying" is not the word I would use to describe it at all, there's nothing scary about it. The "paranoia" is not an actual fear, it's not wanting to get screwed over by something out of your control.
By asking for this to be changed due to it being *unhealthy game design* is not because we don't want to be scared, it's because we don't want to get cucked by a mechanic in situations where this is absolutely nothing we can do about it. I don't want to assume you are a killer main just based on your profile picture and how you are talking about this frustrating mechanic being intended to be "scary", but you talk as if you have never experienced this. Cancelling an interaction to benefit your team should not have an invisible risk attached to it. I'm not "scared" when i try to 99 my teammate's heal and the game makes me miss a skillcheck the exact frame that I let go, I'm just plain annoyed and frustrated that we now have to waste further time for trying to make the optimal play.
Stop defending this mechanic as if it's something positive, it is not.
-
@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372558#Comment_3372558
No, I'm saying that getting off the gen for 1s to take an M1 instead of a grab so you can finish the gen shouldn't be a thing. You're on the gen and the Killer is literally behind you. The entire point of the grab is that you shouldn't be doing actions when the Killer is right next to you.
This isn't like hook grabs where there's a good argument for why they shouldn't be a thing, it's just nakedly playing greedily.
It shouldn't be a triviality to trade an injury for an entire generator completing.
Okay, but committing to conspicuous actions is a healthy feature of the game, whether you like it or not. You as the killer can kick the generator when they let go, or wait for them to tap again before a grab. You CAN counter this as a killer, even if you don't succeed every time.
-
@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3371938#Comment_3371938
There should be more grabs like this.
Letting go for one split second whilst doing the gen in the Killer's face in order to avoid the grab that penalises sitting on the gen in the Killer's face is just an obnoxiously trivial dodge.
So, are you insinuating that this mechanic is a positive experience because of how it benefits the killer?
The survivors are using something they have control over, and are eating an injury to finish their objective. Unless it's the last generator and they smack you with an Adrenaline you will get your down quickly after and have free pressure. the surprise skillchecks are something neither side has control over, that is the problem with it. The killer did not earn that skillcheck, it was handed to them on a silver platter by game design, it's in no way an outplay or something to be proud of. If I'm a killer and I see this happen in front of me I will feel absolutely dirty just witnessing it, because I know how that shifts the mental in a game. 99ing is also a very viable strategy that is used commonly in every single game in some form or another, including 99ing a heal for resilience value. Why is this person punished for letting go at the most strategical timing?
-
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372101#Comment_3372101
I get the feeling this is turning into a argument for the sake of it. I'll just leave it at what I wrote above. I don't disagree with you. All I was doing was point out what seems to work for me 99% of the time as the game is now. This was never an attempt to dismiss what you posted. That's all I can offer until it's changed.
No, I agree with you, and arguing is not my intention, I only seek to point out that I am well aware of this solution in most cases but that it does not solve the actual issue I am trying to point out, which are situations out of your control that are wildly influenced by this feature of the game, unfortunately the 1% side is unhealthy and should not be a part of the game, even if there is a "counter" for a majority of cases of the 7% curse. I appreciate your comments and do not seek any malice in my replies.
I hope we can all agree and that the devs can reconsider that this change is absolutely necessary, nobody likes a gameplay mechanic that is nothing but frustrating, there is never a point where this random explosion is a positive influence in gameplay experience for the survivor, even though it benefits the killer whenever it happens. Sometimes there's "nothing we can do" in situations, but that should never apply to skillchecks, this is the exact opposite of a "skill issue", it's a forced mechanic, but it can be forced on us in a healthier way that gives us the chance to react. I don't want to have to cope with a mechanic that is nothing but negative in every circumstance that I see it happen.
-
@martinj97 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372033#Comment_3372033
Good idea. I'll be sure to notify the killer bearing down on me that I'm briefly indisposed and unavailable for a chase.
My point exactly
-
@Spectralfx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/368124/camper-camper-camper
Killers have to camp right now due to how efficient survivors are. with 4 of them on the field gens fly way too quickly. I would recommend playing killer for a little while to experience it, I mean this in the most respectful way possible.
the chase rewarding perks were nerfed hard lately so it's no longer a viable path to victory for most killers that are not the nurse or the blight.
with the way the game is currently balance, it is expected from killer to get an early take out on a survivor and try to defend the last 3 gens as best as possible, unfortunate to be sure, but it is the state we currently are in.
I would love to see some of the nerfs reverted so we can all resume having fun in chases too.
Survivors: killer is too op in chase! cannot do gens, only on hook all game!
BHVR nerfs killer chase potential
Survivors: killer only camps hook and 3 gen now after winning one chase, only on hook or hiding all game!
If people didn't whine all the time we might actually have a healthy game.
-
@C3Tooth said:
1 survivor dead. Jake was in chase with his last hook. I and YunJin were on last Gen.
Gen was 95%, I leave Gen to go for Gate, Jake downed and being carried to hook.
Gen skillcheck right the moment I leave, Gen progression 85%. We could not complete the last Gen, I also die after, YunJin got the hatch.
1 extra kill because of a single skill check
Killer could easily get 3-4K if tunneling. So I dont complain about dying, but the skill check.
A prime example of trying to make the right play only to get destroyed by an unlucky skillcheck timing, and still these people say "just wait bro" as if that solves this glaring issue which can definitely turn the tides of games like it did for you. Could you have stayed on the gen? Sure, but the right play was to leave and prep the door, until the game decided it actually wasn't with a 7% chance. BHVR let's remove this 7% chance please.
-
I like the ideas, but for the first I would suggest it start the wiggle interaction while you are being picked up instead of while on the ground, instead of being like an unbreakable+flip flop combo that will make you instantly wiggle when the killer picks you up.
The second is like an exhaustion version of breakdown, but from the unhooker instead of unhooked, this is interesting and I think it's quite a cool concept.
For the third I've always loved the idea of a survivor that can pick another survivor up, but I do think it should be farther than 15m, maybe more like 25-30, unless the intention of this perk is just to carry someone around the nearest rock so you can pick them up out of view, lol. I also think for it's very niche usage the limit of once per trial isn't a good call.
Great concepts though! I'm curious what others have to say, and what they agree/disagree with.
-
Mom said it's MY turn to use the Sprint Burst :(
-
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372068#Comment_3372068
It can be frustrating and until BHVR change it (if they ever do). I honestly find (as many have mentioned) just waiting for a skill check works. The only time you really need to let go is if the killer is coming and more often than not at that point they see you or know you are in the area so a failed skill check isn't giving them really any extra information they don't already have. I know you don't like this suggestion but I'm just saying it works for me. It may not for you.
I never said it doesn't work, I'm saying I do this but it doesn't work in every situation, and there is a handful of situations where this mechanic on it's own can literally throw a game. I even listed examples in my original post. I don't know why you guys think I am disagreeing with you? Yes, you can wait for a skill check and you wont have this problem, but you can't wait for a skill check in every single situation, and in those situations where you cannot wait and the surprise skillcheck makes the generator instant kaboom, this mechanic can sway the outcome of a game. Even as killer there are situations where you get free grabs off 99'd gens due to the survivor trying to complete it, but getting a skill check right before they want to let go. Either the generator explodes because they let go and it loses 10% progress on a 99'd gen, or they get grabbed off of it and unless someone else was there too the gen is not finished. Ever see a 99'd gen get kicked by CoB/Overcharge, and how badly that survivor gets tilted because they want to finish it but can't?
I'm saying the mechanic punishes people for trying to make the right/optimal call in certain circumstances, with something they cannot control, and this should not be the case. It's a purely luck based mechanic that nobody has asked for.
Again, I literally do wait for skill checks in most cases, but the problem is that you cannot always wait, and the game should not punish you for those times that you cannot.
-
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372061#Comment_3372061
“in an ideal world you could let go and go for rescue immediately,”
Well you did.
"Immediately" in this example is not an implication of "as soon as they are hooked" it is implied as a "as soon as you want to". Apologies for the misunderstanding.
-
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3371971#Comment_3371971
You never have to immediately go and unhook someone that’s just been hooked. That often is a bad idea.
I did not say immediately anywhere in my example, but yes, you are absolutely right. However though, this is still not addressing the issue that regardless of when you leave the generator it can explode causing the killer to come towards you (most likely) cutting you off from the rescue or forcing a trade scenario. They know where you are coming from, and they can assume where you are going.
-
@Alen_Starkly said:
I have made 2 POSTS about this very issue and no-one seemed to care. Which is very sad. Why don't the survivor or devs care about fixing this? The unfair skill checks are very frustrating and ruin everything for survivors. One thing is missing a skill check because of your own lack of focus or carelessness, but when it's a skill check that cannot be hit due to unfortunate timing, then the survivor(s) suffer due to something out of their control.
DEVS please, stop ignoring this awful frustrating "mechanic". Do something about it.
Well, I promise that I care :) It is unfortunate that it has gone on for this long, it is an unhealthy game mechanic and needs to go.
-
@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3371971#Comment_3371971
I'm saying, don't let go until you've completed a skillcheck. Skillchecks don't appear immediately after another.
I'm well aware of this, and i have pointed out the flaw with that mentality, sometimes you do not have a choice but to let go and it forces a bad situation anyway due to the mechanic. See again : sometimes skillchecks don't appear for several seconds, this can sometimes take up to 30 seconds or more without a single skillcheck. Your teammate could die on hook in this time of waiting for a skillcheck, or a friend comes by "i need a hit!" "sorry man, didnt get a skill check yet" are you seeing the problems with this? This "don't let go" does not work in every situation and it's why there needs to be a change. It only works if you and your team are completely safe and for whatever reason you want to let go of the generator, in which case, why would you do that? If you're not on a gen you are likely not contributing to the win.
-
@Canas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3371918#Comment_3371918
The problem might be that I'm playing a D tier killer.
The solution is to buff the struggling killers, not gut every single chance survivors have against a stronger killer.
-
For those who are confused about what I am talking about, please see this video from 5 months ago created by Otzdarva that highlights the issue with raw data and even shows examples. It's only two minutes long! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjlRqgahTcI
-
@Mr_K said:
Don't let go until you complete a skill check.
Did you miss the part where I said sometimes the sound triggers the exact same time that you let go? You cannot possibly react to this, and it's why people stick to gens UNTIL they get a skill check, which in some cases can cause awful situations, because the game does not give you much choice. Example: someone is hooked and your other teammates are across the map, in an ideal world you could let go and go for rescue immediately, in this game If you let go, the gen might randomly explode at the same time, and the killer switches aggro to you because they know exactly where you are this is out of your control and is more harm than good for the game. If you "don't let go until you complete a skill check" and one never appears, that teammate is as good as dead. The killer has free pressure because of a mechanic that should not exist.
-
@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3371881#Comment_3371881
Or even ask your friends to run corrective action.
Real talk tho, it is mad annoying when you go to legitimately let go of a gen or killer appears and THAT'S when the skill check pops up.
Yeah! Even as a killer i will sometimes get free grabs because of these skill checks on gens that were a fingernail away from completion and they cant let go to eat the M1.
-
I'm fine with your first suggestion, but the second is a lot to ask for. Adrenaline already has a lot of tradeoff for the benefit it provides. Survivors have to make it to endgame with three perks, and when Adrenaline is activated they can't use their other exhaustion perks for 45+ seconds. People get killed often at endgame due to not being able to Dead Hard or Sprint Burst due to the exhaustion from Adrenaline, and this isn't even digging into how the perk is useless if you were the one on the last generator, or how you personally cannot actually force it to trigger, that's up to someone else. I had to face a 4 Adrenaline swf just yesterday and happened to secure a 2k (yes, in endgame). It's an annoying perk but it is balanced. If Adrenaline annoys you this much there are always optional perks for you to run as well - NOED/Rancor/No Way Out to name a few that work wonders at securing endgame kills especially against Adrenaline users that then have far less options when these are in play. Don't want to run a perk that wont see value until the endgame? Don't complain about those who do.
-
Too bad you lose out on even more progress for simply letting go at the wrong time, and waste a perk slot for a broken mechanic, nice meme tho! Definitely gave me a giggle
-
Yeah, it's definitely annoying when it makes me hit the edge of a crate when i know a full lunge would have connected with the survivor and that is what i planned for, or yesterday when all someone has to do is run slightly towards you and away (fov tech) and even though i dont let go of the button the game seems to force me to swing early anyway and miss, as if i had let go of the button halfway into a lunge. Having the control taken away in certain situations feels very silly in a role that is already incredibly stressful and difficult to manage, one missed swing may not seem like much but it can easily lead to a chase lasting a whole extra 30+ seconds due to the survivors using these exploits to make it to a strong tile that they otherwise wouldn't have.
-
@Canas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3370541#Comment_3370541
I strongly disagree with that assessment, otherwise I'd finally be able to get more than a single kill on Skull Merchant. I've been having a terrible time on her since she came out and the MMR doesn't seem to adapt no matter how many losses I score.
Ah, the world of M1 killers, where your personal skill as a killer doesn't matter if the survivors are a bit better :/
I've had some good games on Skullie but it is rough, I've had an easier time on freddy (but still a nightmare, pun intended) simply because he actually has some form of mobility, and his dream snares for the hinder at stronger loops. Skullie just has info and if survivors know how to loop M1 killers, which a lot of them do, you are very at the mercy of map RNG and the survivors making some big mistakes.
-
Also to add, a normals game mode would be wonderful for doing challenges like daily rituals and archives without sandbagging your team as a survivor, or throwing the game as a killer. A lot of the survivor tome challenges require you to either punish a team of solos, or coordinate a swf to work with you on it. A normals game mode would help to give BHVR more realistic MMR stats when those doing challenges/achievements/rituals can do so without losing ranked games to get them done.
-
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3370870#Comment_3370870
But we have to be realistic. They don't even have a good reports system in place as it is. I can't see them implementing one for this.
"Who's doing full 4 person slug at 5 gens in a game mode where a 4k won't benefit you?"
That's the thing, some people just like being like that and it's not about any rewards.
Hence my first sentence "In an ideal world", this is what I would like to see them do, but I am willing to accept it likely wouldn't happen. And yes, there will be bad eggs in anything and everything, just like there is in every other game that has a split between normal game modes and ranked systems, the point is to lessen the blow, and give something to our baby players who experience far too much negativity early in the game because any killer who wants to win generally resorts to frowned-upon and unfun strategies to do so, without care or thought as to whether the player is new or not. I'm aware the problem would not be eliminated, but it would not be as extreme, as the normals mode is intended for players who are either less experienced and looking to learn, or those who just want to chill here and there without (mostly, not always!) the fear of losing a pip or their beloved party streamers to a 5 gen facecamp.
I understand your points and concern with it, but at face value can you really say this is a bad idea when so many players are sick of the META and game balance? It would also be nice to practice killers you have less experience with in a mode that isn't specifically ranked or bots.
-
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3370691#Comment_3370691
Thing is what would you define as chill vs competitive? Once this is set is it policed in some way or can anyone just play on "casual mode" even though they have no intention of changing their playstyle. One thing I think they could do is anyone under 200 hours (just throwing a number out there) is not matched with anyone over that.
I would think in an ideal world what would be defined as "toxic" strategies (face camp at 5 gens, tunneling off hook, full intentional bleedout, survivors intentionally sandbagging each other etc) would have meaningful reports for doing this in a casual game mode. But I mostly just want the option for newer players, and players who are simply there to goof off or get BP have the option to do so with less chance of it being obstructed. Some people play this game with the intention of making other's days miserable, I would like to think the players like this would be more easily recognizable and reportable in a mode where people aren't playing for a ranking/end of season bloodpoint incentive. Who's doing full 4 person slug at 5 gens in a game mode where a 4k won't benefit you?
It's not to say the issue will be completely fixed, every community has its bad eggs, but it feels like a positive start if the game has enough player base to support it (which I can admit it may not)
-
I believe we just need a casual game mode instead of everyone being forced into ranked every game. There's a lot of people who just want to have fun and chill, and a lot of people who just want to win - these two groups should not be coupled together without an option. Baby players barely even get an opportunity to learn the game before they are thrown into a system where they are harshly punished (tunneled) for simply not knowing how to play yet, and this ruins the experience for a lot of early players who just want to learn. I and others should not have to explain that this is just a part of the game, they should have the option to do normal or competitive game play. Maybe I am very off-topic but I believe this to be the biggest flaw with MMR personally.
-
The state of the game is atrocious for M1 reliant killers who struggle to even get a 1k if they play "fairly". I play roughly 70% survivor and 30% killer but have quite good MMR on a majority of my killers. I have accepted tunneling as a valid strategy because for a big chunk of the killers they have no choice in this meta. Losing isn't fun, especially when it's by a landslide. Efficient and skilled survivors can run m1 killers for half the game in a single chase, and that has little to do with the actual skill of the killer, it's map design/chained loops coupled with certain perks and items, sometimes even latency. I personally really enjoy playing skull merchant conceptually, but have grown quickly to accept she is an m1 killer that is extremely reliant on add-ons, and even with the add-ons there's no way to mindgame or outplay certain tiles quickly.
We need our weaker killers to be tuned up, so not only are they enjoyable to play in general and feel threatening, but they aren't a survivor's plaything in high mmr. Chases should be tough for both sides, and they should also be worth it for the killer. We shouldn't only have the S/A tier killers viable in higher MMR.
-
Nerf overcharge. It makes all 3 gens ridiculous ESPECIALLY against knight. The killer itself is okay, but the perks sure aren't
-
I main survivor and stopped running the perk, because even though it feels nice to land a sick DH, it's very much a crutch perk that serves to extend a chase that should have been over. No other exhaustion perks give you the freedom to make mistakes and walk free. It isn't fun playing killer and having to worry about everyone having it, it's the same reason BT got changed - just by existing killers had to play like everyone had it.
I think dead hard would be a lot more reasonable if it gave The Doctor's "pacified" status effect after use. You push DH and for one second after the endurance fades you cannot vault a window or drop a pallet. This is because as it stands DH buys way too much time when used to put a pallet or God window between survivor and killer. Another change they could make is removing the speed boost. Dead hard should be high risk high reward, but there isn't much risk involved in getting the insane rewards it provides. With the gutting of Eruption killers will be struggling more often than not against good survivors. And I fail to see how it's healthy for the game when a fairly good killer can be made into playthings for survivors
-
@ratcoffee said:
i get that you don't want to have to deal with dead hard, but turning it into "off the record but harder to use" is not the way to go. people are already complaining the upcoming survivor perks are going to be too similar to existing perks, we need to diversify the perk roster. (this is coming from someone who basically never runs dead hard as survivor and only rarely has trouble dealing with it unless i'm tilted and playing badly as killer)
make it so you can't do certain actions such as dropping a pallet within the 1 second after using DH. maybe also slightly reduce the speed boost from DH so there's still a solid chance you can down someone if they're in a deadzone
I personally LOVE this idea. A lot of killers hate the lose-lose situation at pallets. If dead hard granted 1 second of pacified (doctor shock) after usage it would be fair. The survivors get punished for their misplays and can no longer just "dead hard for distance" at pallets and windows. I was always wondering how they could rework it to make sense, and this would be perfect in my opinion.