Ryuhi
Ryuhi
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3198797#Comment_3198797
But at that same time, rank reset only pushed everyone back a grade. People playing regularly were back to Rank 1 within a couple days--a week at most.
I'm hard-pressed to believe a majority of players were playing with pipping as their win condition when a) Ash, Bronze, and Silver Rank players could expect to pip any time they escaped or got 3-4 kills, because the prereq to pip was so low, and b) Red Rank players had nothing to gain from pipping.
I'm going to be completely honest, if it wasnt for people defining their own personal win conditions, most of them wouldnt have stayed with the game as long as they have. My point was that there was even arguments for what the win condition was, with people having their own details they prioritized. Whatever their reasons, even just having fun is a valid win condition, especially in a game that lacks inherent balance.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3198806#Comment_3198806
So i ask again, whats the problem with it?
I've already answered that.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3198774#Comment_3198774
No, gave you a list of equal OP perks for killers, just pick one of them.
Im all Ears could also be a counter.
Are you implying that because a perk has a perk that can impact its effect, that makes it bad? Or that other perks can give auras as well? I honestly have no idea what point you're trying to make. If you think I want to nerf Windows or something you're not even close, as I even promote its use to give players linear value with their growth as survivors. I'd much rather zanshin have more metadata it can be used with than have windows brought down to its level.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3198767#Comment_3198767
The game has always had a win condition--survivors surviving and killers killing.
Regardless of whether or not an individual player put greater emphasis on pipping & bloodpoints than the act of surviving & killing, the goal has always been one and the same.
Pipping arguably had more of an impact on your matchmaking when ranks were used for that, making it closer to a win condition in that regard. Its worth differenciating since you could depip while escaping, making the latter be only part of the former.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3198744#Comment_3198744
Then run with floods of rage, it gives you insane data.
BBQ also gives you "meta data"
MYC is incredible strong.
Jolt is also incredible strong.
You're talking about perk combos needing to be used to attempt parity. Thats outside the point completely, and limits builds even further due to requiring synergy. The original point was that Windows provides considerably more value than Zanshin, and is much more viable as a perk and to be worked within other builds without needing to be the center of them either. You could make arguments for open handed, bond, and any other number of perk combinations that it can synergize with as well.
The bottom line is that windows is a perk that is mostly limited by your ability to apply deductive reasoning, while zanshin provides much more focused value, and not as much to boot.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3198755#Comment_3198755
It was a move in the right direction to shakeup the meta, undeniably.
Meta shakeups mean little when they need to cover for the base-game mechanics being flawed.
Yep, thats why it wasn't really much of a shakeup at all. It treated symptoms but not causes, and a good number of those smaller changes actually made some aspects worse than better. Whether it was an improvement overall is going to vary from person to person, but it did fix a few issues while introducing new ones as well.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3198632#Comment_3198632
Yes.
I feel that if you aren't running certain perks and the Killer decides that they want to play in a certain way, there's pretty much nothing you can do.
I feel that the meta shake-up, for Survivor at least, only shifted the meta slightly. The meta is still preventing Killers from tunneling you out.
The meta shakeup only changed which perk icons you see in the corner, the core reasons for the old meta on both sides is still completely untouched, so people just adapted the changes in perks to suit the same end.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3198737#Comment_3198737
Then what is the problem?
Windows gives you much more and much more useful metadata as well. As myself and others have noted in the topic, it gives you plenty of extra info on which resources have been spent and which ones you can chain together without creating dead zones, which ones you can force the killer to break to reset bloodlust, which ones you can prolong for extended durations due to their configuration, etc. Since you are both the one leading the chase as well as having 3 other unknowns in the form of allies, that metadata alone creates a big disparity between their potential values. If nothing else, think about this: Why would you need to know a pallet is no longer at a jungle gym if you had to break it in the first place? You already witnessed its destruction, you don't need a perk to tell you its no longer there.
None of this is even getting into specifics, like using it to keep track of fake pallets from freddy, or other general uses like seeing pallets drop and knowing that someone is likely in chase at that location.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3198686#Comment_3198686
I disagree, Zanshin show you where he is heading, use it to intercept and block him.
That has nothing to do with zanshin if you have basic understanding of tiles, and is its "beginner" application. Due to how procedural generation works, it stops providing value after that information is learned.
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@NomiNomad said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3198594#Comment_3198594
WoO does nothing to enhance a Survivor's looping ability. More info doesn't suddenly make a Survivor have better movement or mindgame skill. A bad survivor with WoO is still a bad survivor, they just know where to hold W to a tiny bit faster.
A decent looper with this perk would still be a decent looper without it.
While that last statement is certainly true, not as much the one before it. Windows enhances looping ability by giving more info to make decisions faster and more efficiently, and gives the added bonus of helping players spread out resource usage so they know which pallets to skip to avoid creating dead zones, which windows are close enough to each other that a pallet isn't even needed, which pallets (or doors!) can be used to force the killer to reset bloodlust with the break, etc. A lot of that data only really benefits the players who even know to use it, as worse or less experienced loopers aren't even going to be considering those things and are more likely to panic.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/347607/windows-of-opportunity-is-an-unfair-advantage
Its your choice that you wont waste a perk on Zanshin Tactics, the survivor you complain about did choose to "waste" a perk slot on a perk that does the same.
They loose that advantage if you "waste" a perk slot on it
They don't provide the same value, nor even for the same reasons though. One is absolutely less of a waste than the other, before even getting into how important those slots are in the first place. Zanshin doesn't provide any meaningful metadata like Windows does.
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@Rudjohns said:
Another perk for the killer mains complaining about everything list
Windows of Opportunity
Calm Spirit
Resurgence
Any Means Necessary
Deliverance
Left Behind
Fast Track
Detective's Hunch
Boil Over
Still far from the "survivors should not have any perks" but maybe one day?
If you've got a big enough net, you can catch the whole ocean
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The biggest burst window for survivors is at the very start of the match, which means that neither side really has much room to react to how a match is going if they either start extremely well or get shut down extremely quickly. Due to this, anyone who doesn't take things seriously at the very start is either sandbagging themselves or their team if their opponent is focusing on either aspect of early game impact. As people get incapacitated or killed the killer's power grows, but between when all 5 load in and that point, the survivors have massive control over the pace of the game (which they need to make progress with in order to prevent being starved later in the match.)
It was less of an issue without MMR because solo teams were much more chaotic, your chances of getting coordination (silently or through comms) were lower, while good survivors could still provide disproportionate agency reactively. Now since like minds get paired more often, you start to see more games be determined solely by which side better handles that early game situation, which is why the better you play the more sweaty every single match ends up being for either side.
The game just isn't balanced or designed well for MMR, especially with how it gets handled in terms of metrics. Its yet another thing ruled by averages, banking on "good players will win more often" regardless of their input, and resulting in "good players will get matched with other good players, who will press every advantage due to being used to expecting having to carry worse players or counter better ones."
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@Underdawg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3198534#Comment_3198534
The best killers that I have seen play don't let survivors direct where the chase goes. They cut them off and force them into dangerous situations and dead zones. It's a skill I'd love to have when I play killer 😥
You can zone survivors to try to corral them a certain direction, but you can't dictate chase direction like they can. If you can zone them into an unsafe position due to a pallet break, they were the ones who led things to that situation by staying at the pallet too long or not misdirecting before the pallet break. Its not quite the same thing since its still reactionary, but it is a much lesser degree of agency in chase direction.
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@GrimoireWeiss said:
Janky animations, power creeped by Blight and Oni, trash addons, a complete unnecessary mechanic that only hinders skillful plays and the only bugfix he's had recently only removed one of the fun things you could do with him (skybilly).
He's dead and buried. I'm 100% someone on the dev team hates Billy and we should be glad they still didn't delete him by accident.
His animations don't get brought up enough, they got gutted before he even got reworked. His perspective is basically designed to be as disorientating as possible now, and even throws off your depth perception to try to force misses. I haven't played him in a while, but I certainly havent seen any fixes for that either.
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I wish they would just fix maps and stop either making them worse, or fixing one problem while introducing two more. A large majority of people's complaints about seemingly unrelated elements usually go back to bad map design.
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3197123#Comment_3197123
The problems with that are:
- Requires multiple separate hitboxes = A lot of additional processing power required
- Creates balance disparities between bigger and smaller characters = Creates meta survivors = Punishes fans of bigger characters
I'm not saying any of that, just having them center justified off of the maximum x/y values of their representation, rather than centering on their shoes. An overwhelming number of animations involve leaning forward while none involve leaning back, which is why there is such an issue. Killers can get pallet stunned when nowhere near the pallet's hitbox from their perspective, so it feels like a weirdly ignored type of jank.
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@gatsby said:
It's just a thing with thrown projectile Killers. Trickster will hit Survivors around corners too its just less upsetting to people because he needs multiple hits to down and at least some of those are gonna look fair.
Trickster and Deathslinger actually have considerably smaller hitboxes on their projectiles, which even allows them to be thrown between gaps in places like boarded windows (which is pretty neat, honestly) Its also why you get less outrageous looking results when the hit only barely connects.
I still think that survivor collision should be centered with the characters visual representation, though they'd have to fix all of the wonkiness of how animations flow with direction so it'll probably never happen. Peanits' explanation does a really good job explaining it all, but to add to it the collision being misaligned is also why you can smear your face through a wall to loop as tightly as possible, for any who have seen or practice this efficiency phenomena.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3195695#Comment_3195695
You haven't stated anything in your replies, hence my need to clarify all of your responses.
I've been pretty clear about my stance on the subject, so I have no idea how you would think otherwise. This is becoming a pointless tangent.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3195549#Comment_3195549
You don't think ragequitting and hook suicides are ruining anyone's game?
That doesn't make sense, because your words earlier were "ruin the game in protest."
I can't tell if you're confusing yourself on purpose. I have never said that i do not think ragequitting and hook suicides ruin other people's games, and have been stating the opposite this entire time.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3195397#Comment_3195397
So you're saying you think a post like this one will actually help improve our experience with this problem?
Its certainly not ruining anyone's game, so I don't think you're getting the point.
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@rinnai said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3194536#Comment_3194536
bro your comments are insanely long. Do you want to be a game developer? I don't get it...
To offer some constructive opinions..
If a DC occurs within 30 seconds to 1 minute of the game it should not be scored or games should be without a penalty for others. Or a percentage like 5 based on average game times. Or until a specific action occurs like first sacrifice / hook.
In a lot of multiplayer games they do this setup - take Dota 2 for example - DC within first few minutes and MMR is not counted. Players free to go.
Part of the reason half the problems exist in the game is due to oversights. I tend to be thorough to prevent them, and to help explain my perspective, or other perspectives not immediately clear. I do also dabble in the dev side of things elsewhere, but not on a major scale, just enough to understand how things can go on either side of the fence so to speak.
Your suggestion certainly isn't a bad one, and could be molded to the conditions within dbd to work as you said. The only issue I can see with it is that it can and will be exploited by bad actors, no matter how reasonably it is applied. Since that applies to almost every fix, its still a pretty good idea regardless.
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@pocajohnny said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3192567#Comment_3192567
Killers wouldn't do any better at mid or lower levels is the problem with that theory. The developers are wrong about that. All they have to do is a BASE KIT SHADOWBORN test for a week or something and watch the rates stay exactly the same. The truth is there is NO reason at all that the FOV can't be increased to at least Shadowborn levels other than laziness.
Having it change as basekit with no option to adjust it will cause motionsickness issues in other players than it does now. There is no magic number with FoV, just values that make good starting points for console vs pc due to their likely configurations.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3194652#Comment_3194652
There is a direct cause and effect between the recent changes made to DBD and the rise in ragequitting and hook-suicides.
The buck stops with BHVR.
All these posts dedicated to scrutinizing players for demonstrating their frustrations with the game are misguided.
Yeah, they're not because you can do that by just not playing the game instead of purposely ruining matches for others.
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@Carth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3194681#Comment_3194681
They have never stated that defending a 3 gen is a hostage situation. Go ahead and source it if you're so confident but if the killer player is just focusing on defending a 3 gen that is not a bannable offense. Either the survivors break it, they give up, or they make a mistake.
Its a bit of misrepresentation. They're referring to a comment that was that any form of preventing the game from progressing in a way that will not resolve naturally being holding the game hostage, regardless of whether it was killer or survivor causing it. 3Genning is only this if they have some kind of weird smeagol killer hovering over their preciousssss, so i don't think it applies quite as much as they would think. If they do actually get someone who refuses to take golden opportunities just to prevent the game from progressing, that is reportable as it is holding the game hostage, much like two survivors playing the world championship of hide and seek is once enough time has elapsed.
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3 gens are certainly annoying, especially if its a killer that can hold them well, but I feel like most of these types of complaints tend to be ruined by their hyperbole. The more survivors there are, the harder it is to both hold a 3 gen and pressure the survivors at the same time, as 3 gen scenarios are a war of attrition. Seige defenses are designed so that a low number of defenders can protect against a larger number of attackers while using strategy to not spread themselves too thin, which is exactly what a 3 gen defense is. If the killer is not committing because they will sacrifice their position to do so, it is just as likely that they are looking for an opportunity to gain momentum without having to do so.
I have never seen a killer flat out refuse to hook someone in a 3 gen situation unless doing so would give an opening for other survivors to break it up. I'm not going to pretend it never happened in the history of DBD, but even the simple act of downing an injured survivor, then carrying them to a hook can take a reasonable amount of time (barring killers who can shorten that step, like Wesker or PH) so slugging is sometimes just the better play, especially since it doesn't risk other factors like flashlight saves or saboing hooks.
it sucks, and it grinds the game to a halt, but if it takes over an hour like OP stated, then they are either god's gift to DBD and never present an opening ever, the opponent is playing minecraft on their phone or something, or they're exaggerating.
If they're somehow not, then you've reached the uncanny valley of the strangest form of holding the game hostage to date. Record and report, unless you know its actually just them using a valid strategy and your evidence will be discarded as hyperbolic. Either way posting it on here like its an everyday occurrence and not just misunderstanding whats happening during a valid strategy while trying to dress it up to look as convincing to your argument as possible isn't going to fix anything.
TL:DR if you're not being overdramatic, record and report. If you are being overdramatic, learn how to counter the strategy (it doesn't take gen perks, btw.)
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3194372#Comment_3194372
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3194380#Comment_3194380
Interesting…
We’re going to acknowledge that the issue correlates with changes made to the game, but not hold the developers accountable for implementing those changes.
No, because people not liking something is not a valid reason to ruin the game for others in protest, regardless of which side is affected. Killers didn't give out 4E's like candy to protest CoH, they just stopped playing killer entirely, or moved on to camping and tunneling. Its also why people have been misrepresenting steam charts to try to emphasize that ever since. The most recent wave has been another survivor entitlement episode, but its something that the userbase as a whole does.
Also, how does one "hold the developers accountable?" do we employ BHVR staff? or are you implying targetted boycotting and sabotaging their product as accountability?
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@Moonras2 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3194536#Comment_3194536
Well if I can admit that I dc I can also admit when I'm being a jackass lol.
But I had to say something because it's something I'm unsure about. Does dc'ing still nullify MMR. I'm not condoning it for that but I remember people saying they dcd before to lower MMR but it didn't actually work that way. That may be a problem with that if only hook suicides do.
While I will admit to doing it I don't do these things all that often as I might make it seem, but there are "those" days that usually end with me taking a month break or so. I don't just out right condone it for the sake of lowering rank or mmr, raging happens.
I just found it so stupid I'm sitting here playing killer and it dawned on me that I hate killing the survivors at the MMR I must be at for them to seem new. It makes me feel bad. But these are the same survivors I tend to quit on and can't say I usually feel bad for that. I also realized that I can't throw up the MMR system at all for my killer play I could easily climb out of it I just completely choose not too.
I'm actually not 100% on DCing specifically with MMR results, someone with more hands on like @Peanits might need to clarify that (sorry for the ping, btw.) Its changed a few times and I havent kept tabs on the specifics, but I can say for sure that matches where people suicide on hook at the start of the match are treated the same as ones where the killer just gets a really strong early start. Unless something I am unaware of changed in that regard.
And i absolutely understand what you mean, I take breaks from the game a lot, because i recognize how absolutely frustrating the degree of robbery can be in this game, and most importantly how much that can tilt me into playing worse and letting the trend grow. I feel like that type of mindfulness helps me be a lot less pessimistic and frustrated, and i only hope it can help others similarly. If nothing else, every player who does is one less player who quits early and spreads that frustration to others.
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@Moonras2 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3194456#Comment_3194456
No the problem here is that I took it offensive at first instead of just trying to look at your point from a different, but valid angle, and I tried to be snarky. I apologize for that.
While I may not like the way people play sometimes I will defend "many" of them because the tutorial system is basic and that's about it. So I'll never blame a new player especially for how they play. Or a veteran player for that matter as i often play completely out of the ordinary. After the first thousand hours what I consider normal play isn't always fun play.
The thing is, is that If I just keep forcing myself to stay in matches or giving no reasons as to why I leave them, then the devs have no reason to care or knowledge why. If the way they've implemented MMR causes me to be playing with newer players, or worse, doesn't give much of a option to get out of the bracket I may be in, then they need to know that I'm probably leaving matches and the reasons why I leave them. I have no problems saying that when I leave matches it's intentional. If I didn't I'd be lying about it.
Also, I have no dreams of this game ever being balanced. Usually when I say everyone should be forced to play a certain way it's because I'm tired of getting left on the hook every other game, so it's out of frustration. My biggest issue is it seems that's the direction they are pushing it in. Either play like an SWF or lose. Hopefully when they roll out some solo queue changes it will help.
When the emblem system and old ranking system, minus the victory cube, was in place I never really felt the need for any of this. I could play how I wanted but still be able to work towards moving up. I could get to purple/red ranks as killer usually even though I let most people go. Survivor was pretty much red rank every time but that was a different issue lol. But I could have my own type of fun and not be playing with all new players every match.
With the new system it's either play to win or stay in a lower bracket. The problem is that once you're in this bracket you don't have many options for getting out which is when I tend to shift the blame towards teammates even though they probably don't even know how to drop a pallet much less how to make a rescue when you're being camped.
On the flip side every day is different. Last night I think we had two-four man escapes 4/5 games I played and instead of seeing no prestige one perk players nearly everyone I played with seemed to be on equal ground.
I know you didn't mention it but just to state it. I've had this same mentality since MMR released. It has nothing to do with the newer patches and balance changes as I'm very happy with what the devs did and trying to shake things up. It just kind of left part of the player base, like myself, behind for the moment.
Its understandable frustration, but unfortunately the devs don't take the response the way you might think. It kinda ties in with the way people have been misusing the recently released kill statistics, as it is part of what makes them inconclusive: When someone disconnects through connection loss, or through using the leave game button, they get the penalty and the match is thrown out. This is to prevent those frustrations/connection issues/DDoSes/etc from affecting their statistic collection. They have admitted that they do not have any way of adjusting their findings on the "more subtle" methods of players skewing outcomes with things like suiciding on first hook, which on their end just appears like a normal match which almost always ends in a 3-4k due to how heavily it shifts the advantage. It makes all parties involve have worse matches, and still counts like a normal loss for other players who might otherwise have been able to escape, spiraling them even further down in MMR.
Climbing MMR with poor measurements is certainly an exercise in patience and optimism. You're going to lose your grip or your footing plenty along the way, and most of it likely won't be your fault, but all you can do is make sure your progress outweighs your setbacks. The higher you climb, the more you will be matched with survivors who overcome similarly, which is why climbing is actually desirable on survivor as opposed to killer. But again, whether it be through DCing or "sanctioned" quitting methods, those games are always guaranteed setbacks and drop all potential of either gaining ground or minimizing the ground lost. And most importantly they stretch to how that impacts the other 4 players as well.
Also thank you for the maturity at the start, that was very wholesome and i respect it :)
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@My_Aespa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3194479#Comment_3194479
Idc if it happens lol I deal with it, I just got unnecessary advice that I didn't ask for. I literally came to comment on something that didn't even involve you.
It was in response to your comment which you seem to have forgotten, "Well I don't think killers should complain about that either, what am I gonna do? Give myself up to you?"
to which I was trying to give you an alternative. If you don't want to improve and want to use that as an excuse, more power to you.
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@My_Aespa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3194462#Comment_3194462
I don't think you understand my gameplay, I'm not here to "buy time" for my teammates just so they can leave me on the hook or so the killer can camp me to death. I'm here for me. And I use WoO... and call it a beginner perk if you want, it lets you know if other teammates wasted pallets already. I don't need someone else to tell me how to better my gameplay since this is obviously what it turned into. Thanks though.
I just straight up said that windows gains more value in good hands than beginner ones, and even listed that as one of the reasons. I don't consider it a beginner perk at all, and its even pushing into the meta lately. You're being overly defensive when all you're getting is advice on how to prevent a situation you obviously dislike instead of just blaming other people that it happens. You're welcome to ignore it, but thats not going to help your outlook on your average game nor the people you play with.
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@My_Aespa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3194435#Comment_3194435
Why? I do fine just getting hatch. I don't need to get better at looping, I am a stealth player anyway. I do gens, if I encounter the killer I will run a little bit and then hide, escape the chase (sometimes), and if we all don't make it, I will try for hatch, tell me to gid gud all you want but I won't change my gameplay since I do a good amount of winning by myself.
Because, again, hatch is a draw and not a win. Its only a win if you're waiting for the killer to close the hatch so you can try to sneak out an exit gate, which is sometimes easier or harder based purely on RNG. Also if you get better at looping, you will be able to buy more time for your teammates at the very least, which in turn improves your survival chances as well. Hell, getting good at looping is legitimately the best anti-tunnel tech in the game, as it easily ruins the effectiveness of tunneling the more you're wasting their time, and makes you less likely to be targeted for it when you are confident and efficient at the start of a chase.
Most importantly? It doesn't slow your games to a crawl the second things go bad. If you get good at looping, you can even get your boldness points up well above the survival bonus. I purposely avoided just saying git gud because I would rather see you actually improve and have less frustrating games where you feel the need to use such strategies. I'd highly recommend windows of opportunity as while it gets discounted by many as a beginner perk and whatnot, its value grows the more you get better at looping, making it extremely useful in the hands of good loopers as well as worse ones. If nothing else, it helps you identify resources that have/havent been used and route your chases faster and more efficiently.
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@Moonras2 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3194246#Comment_3194246
I don't feel like anyone deserves anything nor do I hold a grudge against any of them. We're all people and I hope the best for everyone.
You say why would my reasoning matter to those other players? In most cases it probably doesn't. but what reason are they going to give me of why they are not doing gens, totems, chest, saving, or doing anything but crouching in a corner, that would matter to me and make me stay in a match. The outcomes of these matches are usually the same and me moving onto the next match doesn't change that.
Just because they weren't doing anything but hiding doesn't mean I hope they have a bad game either. Nor do I blame them. I understand some people like the horror/hiding aspect of the game and some people are new. But that doesn't mean I should be forced to stay either.
It's conflicting for me because I like having options of how we each play. I like playing for 2 hooks and could care less if I escape. So long as I have a fun normal game until the end.
However, if we were forced to stay in every match it would only seem fair if everyone was forced to play in a way that progresses the game or be punished in some way for not doing so. It could be simple but effective punishments such as causing all survivors to lose a hook state if someone isn't saved off a hook.
For me it's worse as killer because I have no idea why someone leaves the match and automatically feel bad for the others.
Just to add to this I'm probably making it sound like I'm always try harding and no one else does when that isn't the case. There are lots of times when I'm doing nothing but following a killer around or zooming around the map. So sometimes I might be the reason we aren't winning. In these instances I never blame someone for leaving when I play this way either.
As far as the stats go it doesn't matter. The number of times I've dcd or let go on a hook is a thousand times lower than the amount of times I've let all the survivors go or let a killer sacrifice me at the end.
It's why I think my biggest issue is MMR. Because I can't be nice and gain MMR at the same time.
At the start here, you're kinda deflecting. I never defended any of those other players, just said that you are in no position to disparage them when they at least still carry the potential of actually trying. Yours is a stance that has no moral or ethical superiority, and technically worse as it is admittedly intentional. That doesn't make it evil or anything, just human. And thats not a problem in itself, just the impact that it has on the other players, its spiteful even when what it is reacting to might have good intentions. Part of why I'd rather educate players on how to improve is to reduce the liklihood of these scenarios, but as you likely noticed, people who are unwilling to learn will continue to repeat the same mistakes and fall into the same cycles they find themselves stuck in.
The game is inherently unfair, and will always be so. It is balanced by letting worst case scenarios run rampant and many people win and lose matches that they should have been able to have the opposite outcome. If you are unwilling to play them out every time you find yourself at a disadvantage, you will never improve and the majority of your games will emphasize on how bad things can get rather than how well you play. All you can do is recognize your own agency and capitalize on it to improve your chances.
That all said, you are absolutely correct that MMR compounds these issues, be it through matchmaking or the mental aspect of how outcomes affect it (and thus, future matches.) And again, all you can do is refocus your mindset to not let that have a worse impact than it already does.
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@My_Aespa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3194406#Comment_3194406
I'm talking about if there are only 2 survivors left hiding around, hell yeah imma try to outlast the other person, I don't just let people win, doesn't mean I'm stubborn. Also, If the killer is baiting people by leaving someone on the ground, and slugging that way, I'm not gonna fall for it personally because I'm not a confident looper and it will just be an annoying cycle of people getting downed and healed again. It just depends on the person I guess. I don't get mad at killers for slugging because once again, I feel like that's their objective.
You already lost, you're fighting for who gets a chance at a draw, which is why i put the onus of the situation more on survivors than killers. They did their job and got 2 out, while the last 2 are just fighting over the scraps in the horrendous Survival category. If you get better at looping, you will find yourself in that situation less often just by virtue of its impact on your average success. It would be crass to just use the git gud meme but improving will honestly help you see this less often, and improve your win ratio at the same time.
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@My_Aespa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3193858#Comment_3193858
Well I don't think killers should complain about that either, what am I gonna do? Give myself up to you? No, do your job and come find me. Killers job is to kill, survivors job is to survive, idk what's so hard to understand about that.
When you scope it like that, sure. But you were playing the game before that point, and you have not been successful. While that is shared by you and your teammates, being the last one standing doesn't mean you played any better or worse than any of the others. Likewise, you can have 2 survivors left and still turn the match around to deny 1 or both kills. It becomes considerably less likely, but its still possible without having to resort to just wasting everyone's time by hiding.
slugging for the 4th is basically two people trying to out-stubborn each other, with the person on the ground usually being the victim of the exchange.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3192101#Comment_3192101
This wasn't an issue 3 months ago.
If only we knew what the problem was...
its been an issue on and off since Legion's PTB. It ebbs and flows with people's patience and entitlement.
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@SmarulKusia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3194285#Comment_3194285
Spot on! If you pay attention to the difference in challenges between killers and survivors, you will notice that most survivor challenges are self/team-sabotaging.
Fall from a great height whilst in chase, get hit whilst vaulting a window, hide in killer radius for 100+ seconds, stun the killer..
It's all self-sabotaging because most players won't play seriously
A lot of killer ones require self sandbagging as well, but at least you're the only one who suffers for it (unless its one that requires scummy play to become reasonable, but thats a different topic entirely) and the other players often benefit, due to the 1v4 nature making that somewhat impossible to achieve parity. Some of the survivor ones are definitely more harsh though, which always led me to believe they were an experimental attempt at trying to get the community to "balance itself" so to speak.
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@CyberRoninX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3192138#Comment_3192138
LOL a killer saying don't queue up because of a facing part of the game is the funniest thing I've read in a long time.
To be fair, thats not a killer or survivor specific stance. People have stopped using specific killers/loadouts/strategies and even quit the role entirely due to CoH. The only way to prevent being exposed to something you dislike is not to play.
Its a really crappy realization, but its been the case with DBD about different things for different people since its release, really. Remember, this is a game in [current year argument] where there are still accessibility options tied to perks, even on the survivor side. The answer has always been to ask the devs for improvements, offer your own to try to help, then adapt to whether they bother to fix the issues or continue to ignore them. Maybe we'll get another cute meme with bunnies this Q&A.
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@SmarulKusia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3192095#Comment_3192095
The fact that their data since the patch shows people are running self-care, shows that putting on a challenge that REQUIRES a single perk for you to escape with, will inflate that perk's usage lmfao
I still think most challenges are self-sandbagging in general, especially the "within one trial" ones. People are more likely to throw to accomplish them and then just give up because they got it, and the ones that add requiring an escape somehow make that even worse. I like the idea of challenges, but a lot of them are hurting your teammates as much (if not more) than you personally.
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@Wezil said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3194267#Comment_3194267
So both sides benefiting from having an equal 50/50 kill rate is something you would be for.
No, because thats not how 1v4 works. The 1 has to provide much more agency since they have no allies to carry or hinder them, so they should be above the 50% mark. You should also always have more 4ks than 4Es, while the escape coefficient should generally be most centralized between 1 and 3. If you had them in absolutes, a 61/39 split would be far more effective than a 50/50 one, even if still not perfect.
The dev's goal of having between 2 and 3 kills, with the average being closer to 2, is sound. Don't forget that every match's outcomes will have to fall within brackets of 25% for their LCD, since there will always be 4 survivors (which might also be why they thankfully got rid of matches being able to load in with less and just adjusting gen count.) Their overall balancing philosophy and ignorance to the amount of unwinnable games and balancing by chaotic averages, however, is not. There is far too much "x broken thing can exist because the other side gets y broken thing" in the game, which is again much more of a universal issue than a killer/survivor sided one, and leads to an insane amount of whataboutism.
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@Wezil said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3194251#Comment_3194251
You're not having fun as killer when someone DCs or Suicides. The survivors aren't having fun. Why not fix the problem instead of playing a broken game? Why are you even arguing with me, you want the game to be fun and having the kill rate being so unbalanced is most likely the reason people are suiciding and DCing, which is directly affecting your fun.
Where did I say I was the killer in the example? Its possible to understand other viewpoints without them being your own. Thats how you solve multi-sided issues instead of however you hope to accomplish them. I'm arguing with you because I am empathetic to how issues affect everyone, I don't just claim to when it benefits me specifically. I realize I'm arguing with a bucket full of crabs half the time, but I'd at least like people to be more open minded to issues that don't affect them just as much as ones that do. Especially when both sides actually benefit from resolution.
Edit: also, for the record, the 61% is actually not a high number, nor is it far from their target they have maintained for a long time. It gets summarized as a 2K/2E often, but they've started multiple times that doing so limits it to 25% LCDs while they want somewhere between 50-75%. If the numbers were perfectly accurate, they'd be exactly in the area the devs intend. Closer to 50% but high enough to put it between there and the next available LCD.
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@Wezil said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3194240#Comment_3194240
It's a symptom of a problem, not the problem. The problem is survivors aren't having fun with the game anymore and it's showing that they are fed up with it.
Its a symptom of "well killers don't have a way of doing it as well, so it only matters that survivors can"
There is no press x to cyanide pill as killer if a match is hopeless. You either DC and eat the penalty for ruining the games of everyone else, afk in a corner and hope they don't drag things out as long as possible, or put up with whatever gets thrown your way for the rest of the match. Your perspective is inconsistent at best, disingenuous otherwise.
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@Moonras2 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3194102#Comment_3194102
What you said is true if I was just doing it for no reason. The way I look at it is if I give the killer a good chase, get hooked, and no one is doing anything then me suiciding on hook doesn't change the game at all. It was a 1v1 before I let go on hook and who knows what it is afterwards because I'm not going to stay around and watch the killer search forty lockers trying to find where the other 3 are.
In other words if only 1 or 2 people are actively trying to do anything then the game was never a 1v4 to start with. it was a 1v1 with hopes that a hiding teammate doesn't accidentally sandbag you some where.
Why would your reasoning matter to those other players? It doesn't suddenly replace you with a bot that plays better than you do, nor does it delete gens that need to be done or offset the handicap you invoke in any way. You can use whatever mental gymnastics you want to add justification to the fact that you left the match, but that does nothing to lessen its impact on the other players. If your argument is "well they deserve it," Then I have to rebut that you deserve to get bad teammates if you're willingly subjecting them to such a blatant disadvantage. You could just as easily become a better player and minimize the impact their bad play has, but you choose the path of least resistance instead.
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@Wezil said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/347067/please-stop-ragequitting-for-the-love-of-god
It's not going to stop and it's not rage-quiting. People are DCing and suiciding on hook because they believe the game is hopeless. That 61% kill rate that killers are getting is negatively reinforcing survivor players to hate the game. It's classical Pavlovian psychological conditioning.
It's the exact opposite of what games like Diablo do, where they use positive reinforcement, getting new items, to condition people to like the game.
Video games has used psychology for years, but I think this is the first time I've seen it used to make people hate the game, lol.
Sadquitting is still ragequitting.
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@Wezil said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3194210#Comment_3194210
People are suiciding and DCing because they find the game unfun or hopeless, which is caused by such a high kill rate of 61%. This is what I'm seeing when I'm with a group of players and one of them suicides or DCs, they're not mad, they just believe the game is unfun or hopeless. I had a friend suicide at 5 hooks, 0 gens done. They weren't mad, they were just hopeless.
Your assessment is extremely one sided so i can see why you'd imagine anyone that disagrees must be the opposite. If people are seeing games as hopeless that early in, they should probably not be playing the game to begin with, instead of ruining more games for others and, in turn, making them share their hopelessness.
The fact that you brought up a magic number in your post shows that you would rather use it for an agenda than explore its context, cause, or solution. You don't even care if that number is too high or low, just that you can use it to try to make an impact. The entire point of this topic is about how that data is missing context that is directly related to its result, which is something that the devs have to explain every time they provide them.
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@Wezil said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/347062/why-the-dbd-stats-are-useless-garbage
They're useless garbage because that's what killer-mains are telling us since they benefit from them.
tbh my main reason for hating them is because of how many people keep using them as justification for their "boycotting" excuse for why they ragequit games and leave me trying to carry a 1v3 in half my games. They're incomplete data due to the amount of factors they ignore, but they become dangerous incomplete data when they fuel people's self-justifications for ruining the game for others and themselves. I'm sure quite a large number of people who agree with me do so for similar reasons.
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@jajay119 said:
The main building has one gen and then becomes useless to survivors to be anywhere near it. All the gens are out in the open in that map and there is always a heavy cluster towards the shack. I honestly end up with a three gen on this map so many times. The house is a waste of space really, I don't think it's that big an issue from my own experience. Killers still seem to do well it.
As we learned with the saloon, having one gen way out of the way in a very strong main building just makes it a place to lead chases to make them extremely safe while also removing all of the killer's ability to pressure the rest of the map if they commit. Its basically a dead zone for killers, and survivors who know that use it for immunity every opportunity they get. That is extremely bad design when one side has to counter up to 4 players around the map simultaneously, and makes it suicide for killers with no mobility.
They're afraid to put more gens into buildings like that because, understandably, it would create the liklihood of very strong 3 gen scenarios for the killer. Unfortunately they lacked the nuance to do it in a way that didn't make it an extremely safe timewaster for survivors in the process.
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@jajay119 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3193889#Comment_3193889
The thing is, if everyone had baseline kindred and if everyone knew you could all see each other I think it would have more of an impact, because there is more direct culpability. I run kindred often and there is a visible difference in behaviour when I'm hooked, so they can all see me and each other, to when someone else is hooked and they can't see each other, only I can.
You want to provide surrogate agency to other players instead of requiring them to have their own. This often has the predictable result of them not utilizing it anyway since if they understood the importance, they would be willing to make the same contribution and run the perk as well.
For every survivor who adjusted their gameplay because you were running kindred.... how many didn't? I use it all the time, so I absolutely know the answer to that one.
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@Grandpa_Crack_Pipe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3194012#Comment_3194012
If I'm gonna throw out a bit of a hot take-- almost no one here will change their mind to begin with. About miniscule things, maybe, but larger things are set in stone. Doesn't matter how much "evidence", good or otherwise, is presented.
It's probably a little too cynical to say, but people are on forums for validation, not discourse.
Its not necessarily wrong, and i wouldn't even consider it a hot take, but I have seen people both having civil and constructive discussions, as well as perspectives change about even core mechanics themselves. Even though there seems to be less and less direct feedback, i like to think that there are people on the dev team who also understand and appreciate when valid points are discussed rationally as well. The vast majority is as bad as you say though, to be sure.
To this day I still think that many people are simply lacking perspective in regards to a lot of issues, especially the ones that don't affect them directly. Its always a shame when you see two people who are generally level headed get caught up on two details that aren't even mutually exclusive of one another.