ReikoMori
ReikoMori
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497613#Comment_3497613
Hitting good skill checks consistently is OP?
Hitting good skillchecks with 100% accuracy is abnormal. Not impossible, but not accurate to how real human beings play the game.
No matter how good you are at the game you will miss a skillcheck at some point for any number of reasons. No player has a 100% skillcheck hit rate. If a bot misses 1 out of 5 times that still 4 successful skillchecks which very good. If a bot hits a great skill 1 out of every 25 skillchecks that's more accurate to someone of average skill.
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@jayz666 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3495846#Comment_3495846
Deja vu isn’t gonna do anything to a skull merchant that 3 gens from the start of a game
All any of can do is the best we can until changes to either gen spawns and Merchant materialize. Deja Vu isn't a full counter and it isn't meant to be. It is however better than nothing at all and even moreso when combined with another gen progression perk.
You really can't ask for more than that reasonably.
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@Aissakur said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3496556#Comment_3496556
I don't think behavior does it on purpose
but then again you might be on to something there
interesting
They have directly stated as much when people asked why Nemesis didn't get his Rocket Launcher as a power.
They aren't against ranged killer powers obviously, but they have a clear cut off of what they feel fits into DBD.
So throwing knives, hatchets, bottles full of gas, and harpoon gun with a chain are fine. Yet, actual proper explosive weapons, standard guns that fire regular bullets, and the like just seem to be off the table.
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@Aissakur said:
I'd like to see a Killer that throws and plants bombs. That's all ^_^
Apparently explosives and guns don't fit into the type of generalized horror theme that DBD strives for in terms of killer design. That sort of thing is reserved only for survivors(Blast Mine and Flashbang). Deathslinger gets his gun because it is a harpoon gun.
I will never understand the weird rules they have for DBD.
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@sonata93 said:
So I just played a solo-queue match against Plague. I escaped alongside one other survivor but one of the others who were sacrificed was very rude in the EDC (unrepeatable language). Their general grievance was that myself and another teammate cleansed a couple of times.
I don’t understand why this is such a problem? I see many others say “never cleanse against Plague as it denies her her power”. Whilst I understand this premise, I also have a counter argument; with Plague you have one of two choices: cleanse and allow her use of Corrupt Purge but this means you can be healthy (two health states), or don’t cleanse but you’ll be injured for pretty much the entire game and she can one-shot down you. I’m not sure which is better or worse?
Also, sometimes you have to cleanse. For example, if you’re going for a hook rescue and she’s camping.
what’re everyone’s thoughts?
Playing against Plague can be very all or nothing in terms of counter play.
People will tell you to not cleanse because it does severely hamper her lethality and forces her to still go through normal chase cycles. You spend the entire game broken, but if you can handle extended chases then it isn't that big of a deal.
Now the other way to counter her is for everyone to cleanse any time they get infected. This is important to keep in mind that literally everyone needs to commit to cleansing. The logic being that you use up the pools to the point they reset to being clean automatically. This is preferred because rather than having multiple corrupt purge pools she just gets a single round of corrupt purge and after it is over she's reset to vile with the hope that by that point the game is over and most everyone is healed. This is harder to do since it sort of requires the Plague player to play sort of dumb to start with.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3495708#Comment_3495708
You chose to pay for the Chapter.
The chapter was able to be bought with Iri Shards, which I highly recommend doing, makes zero sense to pay real money for a Chapter when you don't need to. 9K isn't even that much either.
I also wouldn't use the, "We paid for the chapter, so it's false advertising for BHVR to change it to something we don't like". I've seen this numerous times in the past, it simply isn't true
I didn't say anything about them in regards to making changes. Unlike a lot of folks I've read the EULA enough to understand that I don't "own" anything. I want them to make changes to her anyway so she can be more engaging instead of living and dying based on whether or not survivors choose to engage with her drones.
I was replying to someone who said that her chapter was free which is just factually incorrect no matter if you got via cash or spent shards for 3 characters. I don't play enough to have enough shards to buy whole a killer these days cause I can't stop buying weapons for Legion. I'm a sucker for neon colored kerambit or improvised stabby boi. I also like to just buy dlc bundles because for me it usually makes sense financially. Now if you want to talk about a killer that was free, I feel like Huntress was free at some point.
For reference I will play at most like 5 games a session depending on how I'm feeling since I have no friends who want to play this game on a regular basis. I play more during anniversaries which usually burns me out pretty quick so right now I have around 3 to 3.5k shards
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@Shwifty_Meme_Lord said:
i suppose the reason they put the 1st name is because it's less confuseing as it's more words and also becuase it's more easier for it to translate from language to language but
well
less is more in this scenario i believe
Empathy and Sympathy are not the same thing.
Empathy is being able to put yourself in someone else's shoes. You can understand and feel the emotions of others in a similar way they are currently experiencing them.
Sympathy is being able to feel compassion or sorrow for another's situation without necessarily sharing or understanding their feelings.
If you want to shorthand it even further empathizing with someone is a more intimate connection to someone than just simply sympathizing with someone.
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@jayz666 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3495630#Comment_3495630
Behaviour don’t care they just act like this isn’t an issue
They've literally said that they are working on changes for her kit and for the separate issue of gens spawns. In the short term they have buffed Deja Vu to help survivors find and break up 3 gens.
Changes take time and they have an very packed schedule that they most likely can't just throw off considering there is another licensed chapter coming up.
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@TheArbiter said:
There really should be a ping limit, ie if a player is over 100ms ping they won't be matched with others
Due to the way they handle their server regions depending on where they are they literally don't have a server allocation unique to that region and are folded into whatever is the "nearest" regional server. Could also be VPN as well and they don't really seem to have anything setup to screen for VPN usage.
I know some folks posted a couple weeks ago that they went from having normal latency games in India to playing high latency games on servers in Germany almost overnight and that the servers closer to where they actually lived shut down.
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@Chaotic_Wretch said:
I don't know why a M rated game with extreme and gratuitous gore and violence needs a censor anyway. I understand some people are sensitive to curses but I'm willing to bet the vast majority would turn the censor off if given the chance. Make it an opt in Option so no one is surprised by it, but please let us choose if we want a censor or not. Every other multiplayer game I have played has this option, it's time for this one to have it as well.
P.S. An advantage to this would be that I know to report someone for using slurs because I'll see the slur instead of a line of hashtags and know to report them.
The filter is insanely strict, but that consequence of the subsection of the community that finds itself overly comfortable saying slurs of all kinds with reckless abandon to the point there was consideration to just remove endgame chat entirely.
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@Phantom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3493455#Comment_3493455
This is a whole different subject though. It shouldn't be up to the players to protect themselves against getting DDOSed, it's BHVRs job to protect their players 😅
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3493536#Comment_3493536
Agreed.
There problem with not letting matches start if someone has 120ms is that for a lot of non VPN players that is their baseline ping due to how BHVR handles regions. Like the EU server region actually has players from different regions due to those regions just getting folded into EU servers.
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@BlueHorkew said:
I will go with no, but i would be impressed if i am wrong.
Killers take 1 year to create as we are told. Not only bhvr created this killer not thinking or seeing how people would play, even tho they know of perks and patches that are coming to the game.
Second, what would they gain with a massive rework, i don't know if they can ever remove the 3 gen of her identity without new stuff "like a freddy rework", but would they gain from that.
She is a free character and original, so i don't see what bhvr would gain by wasting many resources to update her to level that she would need.
Freddy was licensed and a pop cultural icon, updating him would make some sense.
They can surprise, but not putting much hope on it right now.
She's definitely not free, Tools of Torment is a chapter with one killer and 2 survivors. We paid good money for this chapter.
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@brokedownpalace said:
I see a lot of killers who run full meta perks but no add ons. Why?
Some folks want to learn the fundamentals of a killer and won't use addons till they feel comfortable with how the power functions at base. Some people find addons crutches or dishonorable. The reasons are as varied as the players.
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@C3Tooth said:
3 BNP
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/UJ6TICQBN982/image.png
Squad of Jakes
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/CUO4E33N2JWR/image.png
Squad of Claudettes
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/K4QEMS7ISB9Y/image.png
Squad of Megs
Dodge that lobby cause they came to play harder than I would ever come to play.
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@nars said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3495421#Comment_3495421
While a fair point it just doesnt make sense how playtesters didnt immediately see red flags. Do the playtesters play dbd on live? SMs existence makes me feel like they dont if neither the survivor or killer playtesters realizes her anti loop 3 gen design flaws.
Playtesting isn't really meant to catch deviant strategies, but to find bugs. Playtesters are functionally playing the game with a different set of objectives than the average player. That is the reason PTBs exists which is more useful at catching balance outliers created by average players do what average players do. It's the different between seeing how someone uses a set of tools compared to making sure the tools don't instantly explode or make something else fail.
They would have seen the possibility of this in internal testing, but it takes people playing the game on a large scale to see how far something can go. They did attempt to make small but meaningful changes to get people to not play like this. Yet, it wasn't enough whether your view is people wanting easy wins/griefing or that every other playstyle is less effective.
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@Pink_Ronin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3494869#Comment_3494869
That takes up a perk slot though. If the devs want 3-gen to be a prominent part of the game then they should make deja vu basekit, or show the location of the 3 gens at the beginning of the match, so players understand that's the objective.
I don't think that 3-gen meta is healthy for the game though, and so naturally I think rather than put a band-aid on the problem like they usually do, the easier solution would be killswitch SM and Knight (and Nurse although not relevant here). The game would be healthier.
They don't want it to be a prominent part of the game. They buffed Deja Vu as a short term way to address the issue while they work on a more permanent solution.
3 genning is only possible due to the weird way the gens spawn. The current way to prevent them is for survivor seek out gen clusters and break them up before the killer gets momentum going, but recent killer releases have been killers with powers that are basically overly strong in a 3 gen situation.
The feeling that you shouldn't have to use perks to deal with a problem is in someways understandable, but at the time that is literal the exact reason why perks exists in the first place. This is sort of why I was initially against giving survivors base kit versions of perks rather than just focusing fixing the root cause of issues directly. They treat the symptom, but don't solve the problem and encourage players to not use perks when you do use them as short term solutions.
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@dudumess said:
Is it possible for behaviour to do a killer who cant force tri-gen?? ALL the latest killer designs have been making the tri-gen stronger and the matches are taking three years to end, there is no chase value. Gross.
Every killer can hold a three gen to some degree due to a combination of perks, powers, and addons. Some are much better at than others, but there are ways to mitigate it in most cases.
The one thing the devs did do was buff Deja Vu to point out a potential 3 gen cluster and give you a buff to repair so you can break up that 3 gen earlier in the game.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3494494#Comment_3494494
yes that video is about art work. when you buy a license, your buying the rights to artwork for profit reasons. there is nothing in that in regards to dbd killer gameplay. this is like talking about whether you want to buy original Mona Lisa or copyrighted version of it. The original art of anything is always more expensive then any non-original art. you can make freddy fly in dbd but that would be silly interpretation of freddy. art /= dbd gameplay. art and dbd gameplay are two different things. this should be basic understanding.
in conclusion, freddy is bad because community and devs. not because of license holders.
I'm pretty confident that they have mandated limitations to what they can just decide to do in terms of not just art, but functional portrayal. The devs most likely has a fairly generous runway to be creative, but not a complete free pass.
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https://youtu.be/e7u6v3pc5Dc?t=210@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3494122#Comment_3494122
They don't need consent for minor changes, but any major change that would affect the presentation of killer the definitely do need consent.
i doubt that. I think when you buy art assets, you are open to creating your vision/version of the interpretation of the character. you do not need consent. dbd licenses its own gameplay. you can even rework demogorgon. there would be no point though because nobody can buy it. You need license to sell the artwork. that is what copyright is. selling someone else work as your own for profit. I suppose it is little bit more complicated then that so you have to read law but that is the basic idea.
going back to freddy topic, I think they just have not found an engaging gameplay loop for the killer player to play freddy and engaging loop to play as survivor. a summary of current freddy is that the character is boring. he is not interesting to play and he is not interesting to vs. A lot of licensed killer generally have unique gameplay. Freddy just missed the mark a bit. I think that is why people miss his old version because his old version was more unique. A killer that moves normal speed with unlimited wall-hacks? wow no killer has that. freddy was cooler to play against as survivor and more interesting to play then current version of just teleport to gens.
A section of this video goes into just some of the issues with the Freddy license. It should already be queued up to the right timestamp, but Freddy's part starts a 3:30.
I can't find the specific posts where the devs have talked about how they generally get to work with licensed content as the search function for the forums isn't great, but @GoodBoyKaru seems to understand the general mechanics at work in regards to contracts as I know they've answered similar questions in the past.
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@SauceBoss795 said:
(Gonna try my best to describe what I mean)
So, I was playing pig last match, and I encountered a problem that I've had before, but I've yet to find a solution to. There were 3 survivors left in this match, and 2 survivors were working on a generator at the shack, and whenever I go to interrupt them as to not let the gen be completed, they always run away which gives me a choice to chase either one of them or stay to kick the gen and then leave. The main problem I've been having is that whenever I go to chase of the survivors, the other one just comes over and can finish the gen, and if I go back to interrupt him, the other survivor comes over and does the same. No matter how much times I kick the gen, the progress barely goes down, and if I stay to protect the gen, the other survivors just move on to a new one and easily get it done. The perks I run are corrupt intervention, discordance, superior anatomy, and barbecue. I've tried running perks like call of the brine, but they barely make a difference in this situation.
Is there some kind of strategy I can use or perk to run that lets me counter this situation, or is the popping of the gen inevitable? Pig has a ######### chase power, and I'm basically an M1 killer here.
Popping of the gen is supposed to inevitable once they get it to a certain point.
You can use gen regression to slow this down, but unless you devote yourself to camping the generator rather than chasing you can't prevent it from getting done once it is already 80-90% done.
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@GHOSTfaceP3 said:
Why doesn't this game have proxy chat?
Because players can't be trusted to make proper use of such a feature and because the game isn't balanced around players having direct communication.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3494312#Comment_3494312
You want easy prove it's not?
Every skull merchant post is raided by many players. Same as MFT.
Why do you think your post is not?
Because everyone see wall of text and runs away.
Your don't have any summary. You mix reasoning with actual changes all the time.
From what I get it, your changes are bad. It would make her worst killer in the game.
Even with my changes, which are way better than yours, it's worse Wraith.
I tried to give you a chance for normal discussion, even suggested alternative how to fix your issues.
If you believe your ideas are better than mine, go put them together the way you want in your own thread then.
I've been discussing this normally with you and I defended my position stating why I disagree with your alternatives.
I'm actually fine with my thread not being turbo raided by a populous of people who more than likely won't add anything of substance and just rehash their desire for Merchant to get deleted. This post is more or less speaking to the devs and anyone who wants to take time to read it.
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What I wrote is perfectly readable, you lack the desire to read proper paragraphs or you have something that prevents you from doing so. If it is the latter then I am sorry and if it is the former that's a you problem.
I'm not restating what I wrote when it is perfectly understandable. I didn't present any flat out nerfs to begin with and everything is either change, improvement, or addition. The only things being removed in my rework are Exposed lock-on and addons that affect generator skill checks.
If you're going to argue with me that is great, I'm down to defend my position. You will need to do the leg work of actually reading and comprehending what I have written though. The reasoning is provided and isn't an optional portion of my initial proposal as it forms the context for my changes.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3494138#Comment_3494138
I see wall of nerfs.
Only thing you are trying to buff is stealth, which we already now won't make killer nowhere near viable.
Best stealth killer is Ghostface, guess what he can instadown...
Except few specific indoor maps, stealth is not that good.
What reason except denying stealth, which I don't care about it is to disarm drone?
So far getting claw trap is way better for merchant. You have speed, you have information, you have antiloop (destroy pallet).
There would be absolutely no reason to disarm them.
You want to make it work? Sure, let's give it a try:
- remove lock on exposed effect
- increase slightly movement speed bonus
- survivors inside drone active area are hindered for 5%
- survivor who get "locked on" gets stronger version of claw trap (everything else + hindered) - drone gets disarmed as normal
- increase number of drones to 5 ( you will be losing them a lot)
- if survivors with claw trap is in active drone area, double all effects (hindered + movement speed)
- survivor with claw trap can't get locked on / disarm another drone, other survivors can
- stealth is instant and lingering for 10 seconds
-show battery on HUD
While I use the hindered addon when I play I don't feel giving hindered on an AoE power is very balanced when attached to basekit. Drones still apply all the addon affects save for ones that affect gen skill checks which in my rework would be removed which means there is more space to add in different things that change the way she can engage with her power. She's not a steep disadvantage in any regard as the number values are effectively still intact across the board. Doubling the movement buff is an insane request to make if you understand the current values she is already working with. She gets 3% haste just for one tracked survivor so if that survivor is tracked via clawtrap doubling that means Merchant gets 6% haste. 2 tracked survivors provides 5% currently, but if those two survivors had claws in your suggestion that becomes 10% haste. At the extreme edge case of 4 clawtrapped survivors you're saying to give Skull Merchant 14% haste. That while fun is psychotically unbalanced even Machine Learning only gives a 10% for 30 seconds after you kick two gens and let the survivors finish the first gen you kicked. Chases still need to make sense from a survivor perspective so giving them a 10% hindered while in an active drone that lingers a decent bit after leaving the drone is nutty when mixed with doubled movement buff.
I didn't talk about adding a battery indicator because that is non starter, the devs do not want us as killer players to know exact information about killer applied statuses. No point in suggesting it when I already know that they aren't going to consider it unless absolutely necessary. 4 drones is a nice round number and with my rework she'd have more ways to use drones and drones would still be a powerful passive tool, but survivors would also have the ability to impose a bit of counter pressure by making Merchant need to recover drones every now and then which gives them time to do their objective. Again these aren't flat nerfs they are changes to get players to hunt rather than constantly defend to get maximum power value. I'm shifting the power budget of exposed into the fallback ability which if you would read would aid her in tracking and even allow her to directly apply clawtraps.
I already suggested making stealth instant rather than the laggy activation it has currently. I even wrote about how they could add a feature where she can convert drone into giving her a period of on the move stealth so we didn't even need to worry about setting a short lingering time because she'd have a full on stealth mode which could have a longer timer at the cost of burning of drone charge which again she could recover via restocking at a locker or new killer specific restocking station.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
You know that most of those changes are pointless with removing lock on, right?
It doesn't make any sense, she simply is not going to work without it.
You have drone in area, if you stay there it gives her movement speed bonus and information.
If you have claw trap, it gives her information and movement speed bonus.
Without exposed status, there is not point in caring about her drones.
Getting claw trap would actually be a bad play, because you will destroy a pallet in chase because of it.
Who cares about her stealth on most maps? You see where drones are, so that's only direction she can come from.
The exposed needs to go and my proposed changes makes it so you have more ways to approach people rather than relying on waiting for 10 seconds to get an instadown and staying in a single area rather than moving about the map.
My redesign is based on the way I play her and while it preserves a little bit of area denial it de-emphasizes that playstyle greatly in favor of giving her smoother stealth transitions, better hunting capability, and an actual non drone reliant secondary ability that gives the killer more control over their power that would be useful in chase. The reason for survivors to care about her drones shouldn't be because she has functionally useless instadown unless denying an area. This is also a rough outline I wrote before going to bed last night and we already have so many killers with instadowns we need to start making different avenues to increased lethality outside of just giving exposed.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3493613#Comment_3493613
Another rework would be needed, but changing powers on licensed characters requires the devs to run the changes by the rights holders for consent most likely.
i do not think they need any consent to change a character. a license is what you pay for in terms of art assets. art asset are badham preschool look, the freddy model. the hat, the freddy face, the stripped jersey.
Freddy kinda weak because they have not found a good fibe for his character. in his old iteration, he was more about being dream demon that puts people to sleep and then he plays the role of a nightmare that just appears out of nowhere. they were going for like stealth m1 killer type that can read your mind with wall-hacks. to get out of the dream, you had to fail skill-checks which provided 4vs1 game delay and his dream world had huge action speed decreases. in reboot version, they removed his game delay, stealth and wall-hacks and replace it with dream snares and fake pallets. the game-delay was put into his add-on but many players dislike his game delay and his dream snares so they just nuked his kit into oblivion. Now he has no identity. Clown pink bottle is more versatile version of his snares and many other killer exceed his chasing capacities. his generator teleport is worse then other killer with mobility options. he becomes weaker as trial progresses since there are less generators to teleport as they are completed by the survivor. His dream world has no passive effect and functionally does nothing other than hinder his ability to use snares/pallets. All his add-on functionally are very bad. According to Reddit Q&A, he is on the list for changes.
he needs another rework.
They don't need consent for minor changes, but any major change that would affect the presentation of killer the definitely do need consent. It's the reason why he doesn't have any cosmetics and reworking his power would classify as a major change. The devs can't just do whatever they want with licensed characters in terms of powers as should they do something that could be considered as negatively representing the license or damaging to the brand not only do you risk getting the licensed pulled entirely you could end up getting sued. Even if you don't get sued you're definitely going to have a lot of doors closed to you since movie studios and horror film makers are fairly close knit groups.
They can give him buffs, nerfs, and addon passes which are things he definitely needs in the short term. Like a total rework though seems unlikely unfortunately.
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@Mallagar said:
reddy is potentially a cool character, a "Sleep Demon". But there are a number of reasons why Nightmare is bad and the game :
-The first reason:
Freddy's specialty is his " Sleep World ". But you can get out of it in 4 different ways and it's impossibly bad. Secondly, this dimension of sleep changes almost nothing for Freddy in the chase with survivors. The only thing that is good is that while the survivors are awake, he does not see Freddy, but his lullaby ruin him more than it helps ( when nightmare in Dream World ) .
The second reason:
Its unique feature is completely useless. It does not help to win the chase. It does nothing in its original form, literally nothing. If you are already in pursuit of a survivor, then using it to catch up with him is simply not possible because you slow down to his speed. Secondly, this slowdown from falling into a trap does not help to catch up with the survivor. That is, the ability should either be redesigned or the numbers should be changed. Or my option is to make 7-8 coins to use, and you can switch between sleeping pallets and traps, each use of one of these uses a coin of its ability. And also ( this is purely my opinion he needs to redo the ad-dons and make a unique fast Mori like Pyramidhead )
-The third reason
Freddy Krueger, literally the most talkative character and he must to talk and say lines from the movie. In general, his sound design is well done. But the fact that he doesn't speak breaks the whole feeling of playing an iconic character
There are a lot of reasons why he's so bad, but most can be boiled down to the license holder seems uninterested in signing off anymore major updates to him.
His lack of voicelines is partly due to coming to game back when no one had voice lines and partly due to the specific Fredboi we got being the one from the cruddy remake rather than original 80's films.
Freddy's had a bad time in terms of power design since day one. His original power was more inline with what you would expect from Fredboi, but it existed in this weird place where it was extremely weak, but extremely strong in one particular way. His original power was to pull survivors into the Dream World and survivors in the dream world were subjected to all these passive effects that just made doing anything take a long time. Combined with the perks of the time Fredboi could draw games out for very very long periods. On the other side of the coin though he was designed to be faithful to his status as dream demon and could not interact with any survivor who wasn't asleep. He effectively didn't exist for survivors who were awake to the point he couldn't attack them and they could literal walk through him. So effectively his power was hit you with a laser pointer to make you go to sleep so he could then play a normal game of dbd or a Forever Fredboi game of dbd.
His current power is a rework of his old one in that he can now just play normally, but when survivors go to sleep they have to deal with either his dream snares or his dream pallets should you use the addon that gives you the pallets. He's objectively better than he was before if you're just talking about stats and players' ability to understand how to play with and against him, but he's still not anywhere near being good and is quite bland. Another rework would be needed, but changing powers on licensed characters requires the devs to run the changes by the rights holders for consent most likely.
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@BlueRose said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3492400#Comment_3492400
I haven't seen one person defending SM 3 gen playstyle. In fact, alot want that part of her to be nerfed and chased be buffed. All ppl are saying, including myself, is you cant Killswitch a killer who doesnt have a bug or is broken. By your logic, they should also kill-switch Babba for facecamping and should had kill-switched Sakoto for her slugging condemn playstyle before today. Like it or not but SM is working as intended even tho she has a very unhealthy playstyle but she isn't broken.
I also will add, you and some others asking for the killer, who ppl have paid to play, to be removed from the game for a LONG time till they fix her. Reworks for this dev team can take up to a year or more. Look at how long Twins rework has been taking, and even sakoto's rework has taken a while. Reworking a killer takes time and resources, things this dev team does not have free of. They can't just drop everything they are currently working just bc some survivors are whining about one single killer in a roster of 32. I bet her play rate isn't even high enough to say that she is in more than 50% of ppl matches. I personally have seen a total 5 SMs since she was released and those 5 SM matches only lasted between 15 to 20mins.
One last thing, the devs are currently working on a new system to combat 3 genning on all killers. You just need to show some patience and stop asking for ridiculous requests like killswitching a killer when they are not bugged or broken.
I been telling them the exact same things in other threads and they refuse to be reasonable.
It's not even worth rehashing it with them at this point because they have long since made up their minds about Skull Merchant and people who play her. They want a pound of flesh rather than remotely consider having constructive conversations.
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I play Skull Merchant as a high info stealth/chase killer because I will never play a 30 min DBD game.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3492387#Comment_3492387
None of the previous killers (except knight which resulted in rather prompt change to perks) were able to hold the game until server shut down. Meaning none of the previous killers were EVER a problem. So no. It wasn't here for a years - skull merchant is not in a game for years. The shutdown mechanics (and it's shortened time to 1 hour instead) was meant as a bandaid fix for cheaters holding players (especially streamers) hostage. It was never meant to be "legit tactics". Her design is so flawed, that people abuse this design bug into server shutdown. A very much unintended win condition (that is not reversed against killer just because survivors can hide for an hour to create same issue).
This is not about "not liking". It's about (design) bug abuse that is actively being abused. That warrants killswitch - a feature that was specifically designed to turn off parts of the game that are broken so they are not being abused.
Also - killer is NOT functioning as intended. 1 hour long win-condition is absolutely not intended gameplay. It's (design) BUG ABUSE. It's the same thing as people trying to defend sky Billy (except, that bug was fun and hilarious). It's clearly a bug that wasn't intended. It doesn't matter that it was using his power to the fullest. It was still a bug. And it still got patched (there was no killswitch at that time).
You're literally sitting there trying to classify her design as a bug when it most definitely isn't a bug. It's bad design, but it isn't a bug for better or worse it was intentional and intended. Like her kit didn't just materialize and have a bad reaction at random that folks are exploiting. Skull Merchant's kit went through both internal and public testing, there very little chance that the possibility of this being the way she was going to be played was unknown at the internal stage. At the public testing stage WE KNOW for a fact that everyone and their mother demonstrated how effectively she could hold a 3 gen and how terrible she is comparatively at anything else.
It is not bug, it is intended design are worst and at best it is just gross underestimation of either players' desire to push the limit of what was shown to be possible or the limitations of the design itself. This is nothing like Sky Billy or Space Billy which were actually bugs that just happened to be fun and harmless. Billy turning into Elton John's Rocket Man was never intended design in any way where as Merchant just playing around holding a 3 gen with her highly territorial area denial power is exactly intentional. The unintended part is the lengths to which people have gone to hold a 3 gen for the maximum allowable amount of game time.
Other killers can most certainly come to achieving the same feat with the right perks and depending on the killer right addons. It takes much more work and is less consistent overall as you'd need to account for the use of specific maps, but it is possible. If you look back at DBD's past Doc actually held games hostage for far longer than Skull Merchant ever could purely due to the games didn't timeout during the peak of hostage Doc. Forever Fredboi was notorious about drawing games out to insanely long degrees and didn't get hard disabled for doing the vast majority of time he had his original power set. Legion in the past actually drew games out to huge degree due to how mending and deep wounds used to work on top of having bugged addons that made mending essentially impossible. They can't just make you have an infinite mending issue anymore, but they can just keep wounding and kicking with their most recent addon pass giving them buffs to damage actions while in frenzy.
3 genning as a strat has been in the game for years because it has been in the game since day one. Most killers just weren't built to take advantage of it and perk support to make hard 3 genning didn't come till later. The biggest issue with 3 genning isn't the killer it's the way gen spawns are handled! It's a years old issue that killers outside of Skull Merchant have been able to weaponize to varying degrees based on their personal kits and perk support available at the time. Killswitching Skull Merchant does not change that fact.
You either don't know enough about the history of this game or you're so extremely biased that you beyond incapable of being reasonable..
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3492095#Comment_3492095
If people dc on average in X amount and against specific killer X times 4 amount, you can be sure there's something specific to the killer that makes people DC that much more specifically on that killer.
Same goes for last game and same goes for dying on first hook.
You can expect that people will actually complain about the reason why this abnormality happens (say if she had game-breaking bug that kicks players from game, you would see many posts about it). And this is in fact already true - see the sheer number of threads about deleting/changing the killer with so many replies (like this one).
There's just no other viable explenation why would people DC more against her (random chance would be so astronomically improbable, that you can win lottery much easier), then what you can see in all these threads - that she prolongs the game by insane amount. Just show me 1 other plausible explenation that would explain it considering all the feedback that is given. But you can't. Because there needs to be reason why it's always SM that has so many DC's instead of say Billy - or Knight for that matter. There's no other feedback then people saying she is insufferable.
Killswitch under these conditions makes perfect sense - the killer is doing more harm (to whole survivor population), then good (to a few killer mains that enjoy her). This is perfectly reasonable response to the issue at hand - limit the damage to the game
You're making a heavy amount of assumptions, but it all comes down to the last thing I said: Just because people do not like something doesn't mean that it warrants a killswitch. A killer being able to extend the length of a game by an excessive amount is not unique to Skull Merchant, it is a years old issue this game has had. Killswitching Skull Merchant for an undefined length of time until they get around to reworking her is not a viable solution. It makes absolutely zero sense when the killer is more or less functioning as intended. She's not breaking the game or exploiting a bug, she's just being played in the way that gives her the most use of her power as it exists currently.
She's not getting killswitched no matter how much folks desire that just for being a killer that can use the 3 gen strat to lengthen games. Every killer can do it to a varying degrees and to killswitch a killer simply because they can do it more consistently is nonsense.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3491687#Comment_3491687
1, if all killers have 10% DC rate and 1 have say 40% DC rate, it either means she breaks the game, or ppl don't want to face her
2, if all killers have 10% people dying on first hook and then you have killer that has 50% people dying on first hook, you know you have a problem with that killer (either suicides, or too good kit for camping)
3, if you track what people (connections) play and when they log off from game, you can easily collect information which killer was the one that they faced as last. If killer is played in say 5% of all matches, but is still 20% of all last games for said connection/player, you know you have problem with that killer.
There is very good and strong and vocal majority of people that clearly say, that the killer is problem. Compound it with stats and you have good data with good interpretation = good information. Problem with behavior's decisions based solely on stats is with missing context followed by wrong interpretation of data. There's 0 chance in that if you look at overwhelming feedback given to her.
Killswitch is PERFECTLY reasonable in this case. The only people defending her are exclusively those playing her (and even good part of those will admit she needs changes) - which is similar to say survivors asking for OG MoM - without any regards to the other side and to the pain it brings.
I'd rather have her killswitched for a long time (like bloodlodge) until they really fix her, then have broken thing spoiling games for all the players facing her.
And yes. I HATE HER WITH PASSION. I don't care if I win the match, because it's going to be boring anyway. At her current state, 24 hrs ban might be preferable - because you can do something more entertaining at the same time - like cleaning the house or literally anything else
Not all killers have a 10% DC rate and I highly doubt Skull Merchant for as much as people hate playing against her even has a 40% DC rate. Though that isn't really the point, the point is that context matters which you pointed out and while you can and sometimes will have to infer context you shouldn't make a nuclear option decision based solely on inferred context. There is no way to tell the difference between DCs in terms of context and you could infer many other reasons that as plausible. It's just a bad metric to use especially in this game where DCs are just as likely to due to people having performance issues or throwing their toys outta the pram over getting downed first.
We can safely say that Skull Merchant doesn't have anywhere near 50% first hook deaths as if that was true, that would be something they would probably inform folks of since that is insane rate. Now that said, again context matters. Did they die on first hook because on purpose or did they die due to not being saved? If they died on purpose was it purely because it was a Skull Merchant? This stat can't even have like a worthwhile inference made into its context because even if there is higher than normal rate you have literally no way to know what the situation is other than it was a game that featured Skull Merchant.
You want them to do a data study of people's playing habits, specifically last time they played and against what killer then from that astronomical data set you want them to parse the games that featured Skull Merchant and then further parse if players that didn't log back in again. Alright, cool let's run with that. What's the context? What can you infer from this metric? How do you expect the devs to know why someone hasn't logged back in with just this set of data? How do you actually attribute the reasoning to it having to have been Skull Merchant that made them stop playing specifically? It just as easily could be that they are fed up with the game as a whole and Merchant was the last killer they faced. Could be they had life stuff that got in the way of playing. Could just be taking a break or they switched to a new platform and are actually still playing the game just under a different username. It could literally be anything, but yet let's killswitch Merchant. That'll bring the folks right back to game.
Bloodlodge and Haddonfield for that matter were killswitched because on top of being bugged they were also slated to receive changes anyway. So it just made sense to leave killswitched since the changes and bugfixes were gonna go hand in hand anyway. Skull Merchant may be extremely annoying when using the 3 gen strat, but she isn't bugged in a way that necessitates being killswitched. Just because people don't like a playstyle choice doesn't mean it should be killswitched.
Be reasonable.
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@Sharby said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3491946#Comment_3491946
It doesn't matter what redeeming aspects she has (if any) because her negatives far, far outweighs the positives. There is nothing significant to be gleaned from saying "yeah but some people play her a stealthy chase killer."
Again, bringing up certain irrational people who dump on the people who play the killer doesn't take away from the fact that the hatred of her is still justified. Those people would do the same thing to anyone playing any killer, and there already plenty of tools to deal with toxic individuals.
Respectfully, SM doesn't even come close to the top 15 killers with the most depth, and you definitely do not have to play her in any capacity to understand how she works. Her design is that egregious to where saying "SM bad" is valid criticism and I don't agree with how you or others are trying to make it seem like only people who play her have an educated opinion on her.
Its no different than saying Bubba has other playstyles besides basement camping, its clear that facecamping is his most popular playstyle and it was problematic enough to where they are adding in an anti-facecamp feature to attempt alleviate it somewhat.
You could argue that SM should be treated the same, but her gameplay is bad enough to where she will always force a 3-gen unless all the gens are spread out in a max distance circle which isn't feasible.
Hating her lore/looks is still just as justified as hating her gameplay because it can be equally as low quality. And in my opinion, a bland character with bland lore and forced sex appeal is just not something I want to see again. Trickster was done far better than her as a normal-looking person with a monstrous underside.
I'm not saying Skull Merchant has a ton a depth, but repeating and restating an obvious problem that everyone knows and understands is equally pointless. Thinking of ways actual decent solutions to the problem while can potentially be done without having ever played the character is possible, it is rare unless you've got a high level of general game knowledge. Most players don't have that level of general game knowledge and would be able to make better criticisms if they actually spent time playing the killer. The experience you get from only sometimes playing against them is different than the experience you get from playing them. Both experiences are useful to constructive critique, but to make the best arguments you really want to have the play experience of using the killer.
Just saying "Skull Merchant bad" isn't valid criticism, that's a reductive value judgment being used to cut short any real substantive conversation of how to solve the issue. Stating she's bad doesn't progress anything and adds no valuable context, we know she's bad! The point shouldn't be that she's bad, but how to make her better which is infinitely more constructive and helpful. That's why nothing about the Eternal game matters because the conversation coming from that isn't anything more than restating what everyone already knew. Hard 3 gen is difficult to deal with if you don't approach it the right way early on and even more difficult if you sit there and ties your hands with dumb comp play rules.
Also, stop trying to undercut my statements about people's response towards players as only being from "certain irrational people". It's not just the stray handfuls of truly irrational folks with no reach who speak negatively of Skull Merchant players, it is also content creators endorsed by the very developers of this game and considered highly respected in the wider community. That stuff does active harm because when you disregard and paint people in a negative light while having that level reach others follow their lead. That's not cool and doesn't remotely solve the problems at hand it just makes people think it is okay to be trashy towards someone for playing a killer they like.
I don't like playing against Hag and never have, but I wouldn't talk smack about Hag players because my problem isn't with Hag players it is just with Hag. I wouldn't say Hag players deserve to play against bots or every Hag player is trash because that's a pretty messed up generalization to make. I'm a nobody and have enough sense to understand how bad that could to push that line of thinking out into the world. Now, imagine if I were a fog whisperer who said something like or just a DBD content creator with reach saying stuff like that? There is going to be a non-zero number of people who hear those statements and then use them to mentally justify their bad behavior towards Hag players and if enough people are already in the mood to write off Hag and Hag players they are going to feel comfortable making things miserable for Hag players no matter what they play like.
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3491832#Comment_3491832
The hate for her is 100% justified, and we're way past the days where people hated on her for overhyping a potential Predator chapter. People hate her now because games against her are excessively dull.
Like I said in another reply, having constructive criticism about the problems modern killer power design is one thing. The amount of hate sent towards Skull Merchant is another as it isn't even constructive criticism so much as folks talking license to dump on the people who are playing the killer and refusing to even acknowledge the redeeming aspects of the killer as well as the fact that not every Skull Merchant player is going around trying to time out games.
That sort of thing is hard to do though when the most active and loudest voices aren't Skull Merchant players, but people who don't like and don't play Skull Merchant. Thus while they can clearly see the problematic issue which no one who is being reasonable is saying shouldn't be addressed, but they don't have the investment and knowledge base to be constructive.
To say we're way past the days where people hated her for not being Predator simply isn't true. People are focusing their fire on the 3 gen issue because that is more actionable, but it ain't like the people who hated her aesthetically are different from the people who hate her functionally. If that hate were actually constrained to the character rather than often being a springboard combined with the 3 gen issue to paint those of us who play her in a bad light it would easier to believe that this was justified.
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@Dustin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3491832#Comment_3491832
I am aware of it (Legion / Twins) - Just the backlash was harder with Decisive Strike when people were more entitled and not used to things actually being changed. With Freddy it was the first time a power had been completely reworked. So those were the only notable mentions to be honest. Could argue about every buggy and poorly thought out release but it would be a longer list and again by the time Legion / Twins became a thing and had their time in the spotlight everyone was more understanding of how changes would happen from that point on.
The hate is absolutely warranted - Killer is only good at prolonging games and is boring to play against. She ruins the fun for people whether people want to pretend they like her or the idea of her. Who cares about her visuals or what she could have been. The issue is what she is now.
If you're defending her because you like the power I respect that. But who cares about whether we think her visuals are good or she wasn't a license. Seems like wasted energy defending SM's power just because someone else thinks that. I dislike her because she ruins my freetime because almost every game she either stalls the game to at least 30 minutes and we eventually escape in the most boring drawn out game ever or people just instant DC / Suicide on hook and then I get to go back to lobby like everyone else. I value my time so I absolutely am for a rework of her power or her just getting killswitched but no one here actually believes that will happen.
For the record - I don't care about SM's appearance. Her lore is kind of mid though.
Also - The threads you're referring to on her not belonging in DBD are usually just fresh accounts. Most of the people who are consistent on the forums tend to have pretty sound logic for why they dislike the killer. I could name 5 people right off that very commonly make threads about SM and all of them are just tired of 3 gen strats.
I could name 5 people who a consistent long term posters who have literally been complaining about Skull Merchant's existence since before she was fully released when she comes up. It's not just fresh unconfirmed accounts doing it and it certainly doesn't explain why the Tools of Torment chapter has been sitting a mostly negative on Steam since day one with a lot of the reviews being not about her gameplay, but her aesthetics, lore, and lack of being either some emotionless cyborg or the Predator.
I truly like Skull Merchant and I know others who also like Skull Merchant as well. Folks are calling me delusional, but the most delusional stance that exists around her is people saying "No one really likes Skull Merchant", "Skull Merchant players just want to timeout games and have no skill", "Skull Merchant players deserve to only play with bots". Anyone who isn't towing those delusional grand generalizations get dogpiled out of discussions by people who don't play the killer, like anything about the killer, and don't want the killer to be made better and healthier for the game. They simply want them gone and Fredboi'd or just gone.
There are problems that need to be addressed, but the level of hate she as a character and level of disregard towards those of us who actually play her get is very much unwarranted. Very few people remotely even try to contribute constructive thoughts about how to actually make her an interesting and engaging killer to play with and against. 99% of the commentary on Skull Merchant is just people harping on the 3 gen issue like people don't know there is a problem. When you delve into those threads very little of it is addressing 3 gens as a separate issue unto itself even though people have literally been finding ways to do this with other killers for years. It's somehow purely boiled down to a singular issue with Skull Merchant players as the ultimate villains rather than maybe being critical of the systemic problems this game has had for going on 8 years while also being critical of issues that keep plaguing modern killer power design.
Being constructively critical is one thing, but a lot of this has only ever been just a echochamber for people who don't even want to acknowledge there are a lot of us playing this killer, not 3 genning and ruining games, and that the killer has some redeeming qualities that aren't going to be apparent to most people since she already isn't being played that much compared to any other killer. Even content creators seem to be more interested in driving negative sentiment towards Skull Merchant players rather than trying to use their reach to maybe be more constructive in their criticisms rather than harping on the 3 gen thing like it is an issue unique to her and not a systemic problem.
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@Dustin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3491066#Comment_3491066
Calling for her to be killswitched till she gets reworked may make sense from a balance perspective but not from a business perspective. BHVR would either have to compensate players who spent money on her or put her remake as a priority. Given how their schedule is, prioritizing her remake would push other profitable projects down the line like cosmetics or new chapters which once again makes no sense from a business perspective.
This reminds me of the argument people had when Decisive Strike got reworked and people were demanding refunds because the perk got changed. Same thing happened with Freddy's complete rework. I'm pretty sure there was a statement about it that refunds wouldn't be granted. Granted I get it if the killer is killswitched for months but to be honest there's been plenty of stuff killswitched for a long duration of time. The only thing that was disabled for a lengthy period to my knowledge was Jonathan Byers from Stranger Things and that was before killswitch - can't recall if people got compensated somehow but I thought they did.
To be quite honest - I actually agree with people suggesting the killer needs to be killswitched. Genuinely one of the worst designed things I've ever seen added to this game and I've played since 2016. I'm still thinking of hatch standoffs, pallet and window vacuums and really poorly designed perks when I compare SM to old DBD. I also don't believe people are overreacting. Skull Merchant is the only killer I've consistently seen people either DC or walk up to the killer and point to a hook so they can go next. The majority of people who value their time would rather suicide on hook against SM.
They did the same to Legion for a long time even after they removed the ability to moonwalk down someone with deep wounds, fixed the issues with stacking Filthy and Nasty blade, turbo nerfed and then reworked Frank's Mixtape and Stab Wound Study.
People DC'd on the Twins a ton as well, there was literally the multiple years of hostage Doc and the Forever Freddy days of his original power which caused a ton of DCs. It seems we've been playing this game the same length of time so you would have had to have seen this or at least been aware of this.
The response to Skull Merchant is extremely skewed because the level of baseline hate for her is so much higher than any other killer. Hate she doesn't really deserve considering where it usually stems from has nothing to do with what she's capable of in game and everything to do with people getting hyped up on leaks for Predator or generally being super snobbish about what does and doesn't belong in horror. So a ridiculous level of hatred paired with a generally very weak power that has one grossly over performant strat at the expense of truly being good at anything else means players are going to respond negatively in a seemingly outsized manner.
Most of the folks on this forum that call for her to be killswitched or deleted are also the same ones who were cranking out threads talking about how Skull Merchant doesn't even belong in DBD to begin with.
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@Ayodam said:
Isn’t that an issue of latency/lag? If so it’s because it prioritizes the killer’s connection/perspective. So if on the killer’s screen it looks like you were hit, even if on yours it looks like you cleared the window & were outside of hit range, you will get hit. I heard that this works for survivors when it comes to like hook and Gen grabs but I don’t really think that’s true.
@kaneyboy said:
So Iv played this game for a few years now, and I’m getting tired of being hit after a successful fast vault… like why is this still happening?
It is a latency issue.
So the killer and survivors are not in perfect sync with each other. All of our individual clients send data back and receive data from the dedicated servers. The server needs to interpret these multiple "realities" of data and try to give back the most reasonably compromise of the actions taking place. So say you're fast vaulting over a pallet or through a window and the killer swings at you, the server needs to quickly see which of these actions has priority. From what I understand in most situations it goes with the outcome that hits the server first unless they both get there around the same instant in which you it tries to give a compromise result.
So the compromise usually ends up being hit during/after successful fast vaults and pallet stuns. It also goes in the other direction when killers will hit a survivor, get a blood effect and scream, but the survivor doesn't go down or a seemingly perfectly lined up grab ends up just being a hit or a total whiff. That's the server trying it's level best to make a "fair" result due to the differences in latency.
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@Gandor said:
Devs should seriously think about kill switching her.
Don't take my word for it. Check the number of DC's or suicides against her. Check how many ppl stopped playing dbd altogether after facing her.
It's very easy - you will have many more players and games if you just killswitch that abomination for a killer
The game can't distinguish between a suicide and fair hook so that is a useless thing to look at.
DC's are such a rampant issue no matter what killer is played and again the game can't determine reason for a DC only that it happened which makes it useless to look at as well. There is a reason why people constantly complain the devs making decisions based on stat lines and you're asking them to do that very thing.
How does one determine the exact reason why someone stopped playing DBD? Unless people self report there is no way to know that answer so how would you remotely use that as a factor.
Please be a bit more reasonable. With your logic the devs might as well Killswitch everyone but Trapper and Hillbilly.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I would also prefer they kill switch her. She isn't fun to play, nor fun to play against in her current broken state. She's purely being used to hold the game hostage, and the devs know it.
She's not being purely used to hold the game hostage and there are fun aspects to playing her.
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3491502#Comment_3491502
So I should suffer three gen Skull Merchant games because you and a very small number of people that main her don't do that? I don't know if you've heard about the Trolley Problem but it definitely works in this scenario. If they are so busy, why not just nerf the range of drones temporarily or just do something minor to compensate?
The trolley problem is both inadequate and flawed even in the proper philosophical context it was created for.
The Greater Good theory is often far too binary to truly be applicable to basically most situations in life that don't boil don't to "Do X or Die". Situations in life are often more akin the outcome of Kobayashi Meru test in Star Trek where the only real answer was to not engage with the binary choice to begin with.
Also they do something minor to compensate, they buff the heck outta Deja Vu specifically to aid in pointing out a potential 3 gen cluster and giving you a decent bonus to repair speed so you can do those gens faster. They also made slight changes to Merchant herself to try and encourage more players to do other playstyles outside of hard 3 gen, but minor number changes can only do so much when the power itself is so centralized to whether or not she can make full and free use of her drones. Ultimately, every other way of playing her is suboptimal compared to just playing her in a highly territorial way because from the killer's side, she NEEDS survivors to interact with the drones to have a power at all. From the Survivors' side if the killer doesn't place the drones in areas where they need to be interacted with it is exceptionally easy to just path around them and Skull Merchant doesn't exist as a result.
Her power has good bits to that make her fairly decent in a chase and it has potential make her an excellent stealth killer, but those factors are contingent on her drones rather than her and need addon from addons that are a bit pricey.
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3491471#Comment_3491471
Address the fact that whilst they keep delaying updates to her, more people suffer for it in public games where they are forced to DC or feed her free kills. It's disgustingly miserable facing her.
They can't just drop everything they are currently doing and spit something out which in likelihood just make the situation worse.
Game development isn't something where you just get to address whatever you want when you want. They have schedules and deadlines for updates that have planned and worked on for month or even possibly years in advance. Fixing Skull Merchant's kit or reworking it entirely on top resolving the systemic issue of 3 gens because that unto itself is a issue regardless of Skull Merchant, is months of work at least. Work that has scheduled, allocated staff and then all of the work that is required to make substantive changes. It takes them around a year to make a single killer from concept to finished product and rework outside of a minor ability shifts and numbers changes requires about the same amount of time.
This killer hasn't even been in the game for 6 months and while I get that folks aren't having a great time and have hated her since day one because she wasn't Predator thus meaning she has no good will coming from a majority of community, some of us actually play her and like things about her and go out of our way to not play her doing 3 gens. There is a community of players who have spent money to play this killer that also need to be accounted for which another that is super important to game dev. What ain't important is addressing something they already addressed.
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3491180#Comment_3491180
I'm talking about acknowledging that a Skull Merchant held the best team hostage for fifty minutes. Just replying to the threads and saying an update for her will come asap or saying they are aware she's that broken. They addressed Skull Merchant but not the recent event associated with her.
There is a lot of caveats to that game. The major one being it was played under comp rules which severely limits the ways they could have approached setting up to counter Skull Merchant. They also just flat out didn't even attempt to break the 3 gen early when the Skull Merchant wasn't actively trying to defend it.
There isn't anything to say about a comp team playing a game under comp rules who went into a pre-arranged game where the understanding was that the Skull Merchant wasn't even going to attempt to win the game. The goal was to time the game out for Skull Merchant in a scenario that isn't indicative of how normal players play the game and how experienced players who don't play comp understand to deal with Skull Merchant.
What do you want the devs to address? They already know that her kit has issues and that game has had a 3 gen issue for years which is exacerbated by the design of Skull Merchant power. They already addressed that they are working on the issue, but it takes time and there more things to consider than whether or not Eternal almost lost a game where they played suboptimally for the situation they were in and had their hand tied by playing with a self imposed ruleset. Hens didn't prove anything that everybody didn't already know and agree with. That match was pointless and the fact that people are losing their minds over it also pointless.
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@mikewelk said:
It's crazy they haven't even acknowledged the situation after mutiple disccusions with a crazy amount of replies, and up votes scattered around, were published.
The literally addressed it back during the AMA. They are working on an update for her, but they didn't give a timetable because it is very early in that process considering she's not even been out 6 months.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3491002#Comment_3491002
Blight has an add-on that proccs tremendous skill checks during his rushes.
He doesn’t really need tracking if he is locking down a 3-gen, and his gen stall comes from Survivors needing to respect his speed.
By the end of the SM v. Eternal game, Eternal was hopping on gens as soon as SM left. On the same set-up, they would not have been able to do that against Blight because he’d immediately turn back and run them down.
I’m not particularly interested in making a case for Blight, though. I am fairly confident that Blight could dominate the “win by making the match take 60min” sphere—at least in pubs.
The issue at hand is whether or not this play style will catch on, and if it has enough legs to be played with at least half the Killer roster. If so, reworking SM would be wasted time as it’d be treating the symptom, not the virus.
This is a playstyle that isn't even new. Hard 3 genning has been a thing for a very long time with the previous culprits being Doctor and Freddy.
Every killer can do the same thing, but to varying degrees and needing different kinds of build considerations. If not for the fact that Skull Merchant's power functions the way it does and the fact that from jump folks have hated her I doubt the uproar would have been as strong as it is now.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3490712#Comment_3490712
Though the point is to have condemned be less of her only truly viable optimal playstyle
you mean be an m1 killer with lackluster chase that has to hook people 3 time? that is surely going to be super viable vs survivors that can loop.
I did say that she also needed more help in the chase.
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@the_voices said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3490214#Comment_3490214
She will be if these changes go through. Complete embarrassment.
She would not be. Like if you still want to do condemned it can still be done, but it requires more input from you and can't rely purely on slugging. People being protected from passive condemned gain while holding is tape is a substantial change, but so is being able to target folks with tapes to apply condemned progress directly.
Though the point is to have condemned be less of her only truly viable optimal playstyle and get condemned to be more a looming threat survivors need to address which should breakdown some of their efficiency in other areas. She stills something to improve her chase aside from not being able to be stunned while demanifested, but what's she is getting in the next patch is start in the right direction.
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@jajay119 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3490651#Comment_3490651
I'm talking about the game logging the radius of recently deactivated drones and not allowing a new one to he put up within it for a certain amount of time. That's ultimately the biggest issue.
And I'm saying that suggestion would negatively impact those of us who are playing her, but not 3 genning and instead wanting to constantly cover certain traversal areas or strong loop chain areas. For those of us who are trying to use the power proactively, not being able to replace drones just makes an already not great power just feel worse and less useful. Meanwhile we don't have a fallback ability that isn't tied to her drones that she can just use. The way to solve the problem is not by doing what BHVR tends to do which is make a power clunky and annoyingly locked out.
They could just as well solve the issue by altering the drone function rather than just make the power worse. Like for all the discussion that goes on in the forums about Skull Merchant the vast majority don't seem to give a damn about any of the people playing this killer aside from those using her to time out games. Tons of threads with the vast majority of opinions being take from her, make her functionally worse with complete disregard how that effects other players outside of the ones timing out games, calls for her to be outright deleted, and dumb takes from folks like Scott Jund sitting there saying Skull Merchant players deserve to only play against bots.
The fact that she needs a rework isn't something I dispute cause I in fact agree. She needs substantial changes, but they need to be good changes that take into account that people actually play and like things about this killer that are worth preserving or at least not just saddling her with bad feeling mechanical limitations.
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@jajay119 said:
The easiest way to fix her is to ensure she can't put a drone up in an area that overlaps with that of a drone that been deactivated for 'x' seconds. If this cooldown were added it would make her much more bearable and not change how she plays too much for those who like her.
She already can't do that.
The game just flat out locks you out of dropping a drone in a way that makes it overlap an area with a drone in where it is in active mode or search mode.
Now if you're talking about making it so she can't place a drone down in a spot where one was just hacked, that's going to basically mess her up for those of us who are playing her and not 3 genning, but alternate between dropping drones mid chase and dropping drones to get undetectable in specific areas. Please understand that literally her entire character function is in her drones and without being able to freely use them she legit has no power.
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@TWiXT said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3490353#Comment_3490353
They see the timer or status of DW, but not how far along it is. Killers aren't given any details on how close a survivor is to bleeding out, all the info they receive is that a survivor has the effect and has to mend.
Before, when Legion came out, the killer could see how much time a survivor had left, and with Legion not only being the only one that applied the status effect and could also shorten it with each frenzy strike, but also could force a survivor to bleed out by chasing them while looking away as to not trigger the chase status (the only means of pausing the timer at the time), it became a huge problem.
Nowadays the timer pauses for both when the survivor is running (no chase required) and mending. Also the killer only sees that the survivor has a Deep wound timer, but has no idea of how far along/how much time the survivor has left on it.
Would you prefer that the killers get that info now? TBH, With how nerfed the effect is these days, I don't see it being nearly as much of an issue as its original iteration presented.
It would be nice to know the exact specifics on killer powers that require build up, but for stuff like deep wounds I've gotten pretty good at knowing when people will drop. Though I don't really want or expect them to drop from deep wounds because mending time is more useful to me since I don't run much in the way of regression.
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@Sava18 said:
I curious what people think. I would rather get stomped, even if it leads to bags at the gate and a toxic post game chat than go against new/bad players. At least I might be able to learn something from really good players.
I am far better on killer though. When it comes to survivor I enjoy going against better players still but not the killers who have 4 hooks at 5 gens and are still camping out a second stage. Although it's pretty rare to see the super omega sweats that apparently are so common.
The game just feels like work when I am essentially culling puppies. It's like being a high rank player in League or apex smurfing in bronze, I just can't see how it's fun.
I'd rather be frustrated than bored I guess.
I do think there are many people who play this game who would want to hard smurf on both sides if they could.
You need a mix, but people being genuinely toxic in endgame is unacceptable to me no matter what.
Playing against people better than you all the time and getting busted down basically every time can start to harm a lot of players confidence in their ability to play the game. Especially, considering DBD does an extremely horrible job of making it obvious where you're making mistakes vs when you're just getting so outplayed that you might as well not play. Depending on how you onboard information and what playstyle you favor you may need to play against lower end teams quite a while so you can focus on what you're learning without being super stressed.
If we're just talking about what is more fun, then that gets subjective. Challenging games are nice, but not back to back to back. Sometimes I just wanna be an MMA fighter busting up some cans every now and then. Not a full out steamroll day one survivor sort of thing, but a game where you can do weird and chaotic stuff, but know you're not gonna throw the game in the process. Like for me survivor teams that really challenge me basically just make have to focus on executing the "right" way rather than letting me just approach the match like I'm playing freeform jazz. These days I'm extremely casual about this game so I just wanna learn killers I never really got around to playing and do some weird stuff. Sadly, rarely do I get to play against teams that let me get away with that.