NuclearBurrito
NuclearBurrito
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The Plague got them probably.
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You only just realized this?
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The devs are a lot of things, but they don't just put in bugs to nerf things. The enduring bug on other Killers is supposed to be fixed on the PTB for example
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Look, it's not worth arguing. I don't doubt that these Killers can down Survivors quickly and keep up pressure across the map. That's exactly my point in making this thread.
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@Shaped said:
I am just saying that killers you mentioned are not slow when they use their powers and that speed is important excluding Legion because you can't down people when using Frenzy.
That's their power. Their actual speed stat is lower than other Killers.
Yes it would be stupid for them to rely on that speed stat, but that's part of why they end up being so good in the first place.
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@Shaped said:
It is not beside the point.
Huntress has a longer reach than most faster killers, that makes her down people faster. She is in a bit of gray area but she is not "slow".
Spirit has a power which maker her move fast. Nurse can also move fast using her power. Hag can teleport and reach longer distance faster than "faster" killer. Do you see a pattern here? Those killers are not slow when used right.
@Shaped it's besides the point I'm making. Which is that the 110% Killers are better than 115% Killers.
Burst movement is fundamentally different from continuous movement in a way that favors Burst movement for clearing loops
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Anyways that's besides the point regardless.
Nurse is the slowest Killer even if she is "fast". It's a different kind of speed.
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@Shaped said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/573452#Comment_573452
Which part of "or hit" over a long distance you didn't understood?
Probably the part where you don't explain why that makes her not slow.
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@Shaped said:
They are not slow since they have powers to allow them to move or hit quickly over a long distance. But yeah I get what you are thinking.
Huntress doesn't. Still better than at least 70% of Killers.
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@se05239 said:
Or instead of more killers, why not improve the ones that we have so they become more viable choices? It'd not even hurt the game in any way, as killer variety would go up, thus hopefully ending the stale as ######### meta.
@se05239 Not my decision to make. Since BHVR IS making more Killers whether we want them to or not I may as well request another 110% Killer.
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If he doesn't always immediately go for the same survivor repeatedly no matter what then I'm uninstalling.
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You do realize the hatch exists. Yes the Killer will often find it first but he also often won't.
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Ok I'll bite. How exactly would you change Nurse? Saying you want change is easy, you should say what you want her changed into.
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I'd do a bunch of things:
Remove scratchmarks
Have a lot of physics based objects that can be moved or create noise when running buy it (ex: Sticks that crack loudly if you walk over it without crouching, or cans that would be kicked if you run past it)
Multiple objectives with dynamic map effects
Give Survivors a stamina system mid chase. Once they run out they run at a reduced MS. But increase their base MS.
Have maps be more mazelike but less suited towards looping. Kinda like Larys.
Have a more dynamic perk system (instead of just 4 perks flat have it be more of a token system)
Give Survivors unique ability's.
Replace the entire game with deathguarden bloodhunt -
It changes the potential outcomes of the mechanical interactions. So it's not just QoL.
An example of QoL would be the ghostface detection zone increase, since you could always have Ghostface be in an arbitrarily small non-0 detection zone so long as you have LoS with him, and a bigger detection zone doesn't let you detect him without LoS.
Or the Nurse teleport assist addon, since it doesn't improve her stats but just makes her easier to execute.
Or stake out since Great checks can always be hit anyways.
Or the act of seeing a gen counter because it's redundant with the notification.
Or having it say when you are preforming actions faster/slower than base
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Why is he only 110%?
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EGC wins
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Best meme
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Doesn't need it. Maybe wraith but definitely not spirit
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Technician
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No? The Killers grunts are directional too.
The terror radius is more equivalent to the whispers perk, which is also non-directional.
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I use spine chill, sprint burst, adrenaline and Q&Q
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Spirit
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Buffs are better than nerfs as a rule.
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The reason why Leatherface needs a rework is because his kit is just a bad billy.
We need to change him into a Killer that is distinct, and since billy is a relatively fun killer that means leatherface should be the one to change.
The issue here is not a matter of balance, and that's why he needs a rework. Other killers are weak sure, but they aren't inherently bad.
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@twistedmonkey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/564199#Comment_564199
I understand the Mori part but what about killer that dominate due to less skilled survivors?
The one thing I do not like about the emblem pipping system is a lot of it is out of your own hands and subject to how the other side plays which it really should not be. The other aspect is it does not reward you for being much better than your opponents.
Pipping should always come down to how well you personally play and if you play well you should be more rewarded especially as a killer. If you kill them all easily surely you should want them to be ranked away from those players as to allow them to stay in that rank bracket keeps them playing agaisnt less skilled opponents.
Some of the emblems points are more about luck rather than skill which also needs addressed.
Personally I hope the new system removes emblems as there have been more complaints regarding this ranking system than any other previous ones.
The victory cube while bad as it meant camping almost guaranteed a pip at least it also rewarded good players for well being good at the game.
@twistedmonkey The victory cube did even come close to guaranteeing a pip via camping, since you needed to get at least a 2k plus 1 hook in order to pip. However you only have enough time to get exactly a 2k even with flawless chases if you are camping, since camping 2 Survivors to death takes 240 seconds, but completing all of the generators while this strategy is in effect takes about 160 seconds. That leaves the Survivors with 80 seconds to figure out that the Killer is camping in the first place to start gen rushing.
And that's a best case scenario for the Killer short of the Survivors throwing themselves at the hook (in which case that's the proper time to camp and should result in a pip anyways)
If the Survivors are competent at looping then the Killer should rarely even get any more than the first kill.
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Why would I pick bill? His effect only effects freddy. Which doesn't even make any sense btw.
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@Captain_Doomsday said:
The devs say their goal is for Killers to get 2 kills a game on average. That seems to artificially limit them, though, so I'd recommend aiming for 2-3.
BP is how you rank, but BP per game caps at 8k per category, so you're punished for playing a good Trapper, or anyone else prone to maxing a category. I heard Doctor is great for farming, but he's staying in the trash tiers with caps so low.
With conditions like that, you basically have to evaluate viability by kill potential, and then we're trapped in the realm of Nurse, Billy, and Spirit. They're the only Killers who can circumvent the standard movement limitations, although we'll see if Freddy joins them.
@Captain_Doomsday ######### are you talking about? Ranking is based off of your emblems? BP is exclusively used for progression.
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@miaasma said:
she doesn't guess where you go, though. she can hear you, she can see scratch marks, and she can see your interactions with the environment (if you're injured and happen not to be running iron will, a spirit has to actively try to not properly locate you)
if it was a true guessing game for both sides, then yeah, i'd be inclined to agree that it was a mindgame, but it isn't, and people really need to stop framing spirit like using her power poses some huge risk for her. it is incredibly easy to track with her now that sounds work properly, meaning no guesswork is involved in locating survivors mid-phase. meanwhile, all the survivors are able to do is guess
being unpredictable doesn't work when the spirit has so many ways to locate you mid-phase, on top of being able to stand still until she chooses to use her power and move based on what she sees you do; the survivor has no way of knowing when she activates her power, so they have no idea when to start being unpredictable. this is why she is so strong; survivors cannot do anything but guess at what she's doing, which is why the "counterplay" to spirit is tantamount to just hoping she screws up tracking you
If it is a guessing game for the Survivors then it MUST also be a guessing game for the Spirit. Even if she literally saw your aura while using it.
Imagine the following common scenario:
A Survivor drops a normally safe pallet. The Spirit wants to hit that Survivor.
The Spirit can either phase around the pallet, or wait for the Survivor to vault.
The Survivor can either vault the pallet, or leave.
If the Spirit doesn't move then obviously she won't get the hit unless he vaults. If the Spirit tries to phase around after waiting if he runs then there is a good chance of not getting to the Survivor in time due to the extra distance he gains.
If the Spirit phases however, then she won't get the hit if the Survivor vaults once she's on the other side. Even if the Spirit could see the Survivor that doesn't mean she knows his next move.
So the Spirit gets a hit depending on if she successfully intercepts his next move. However she has to intercept his next move before he does it or it won't work.
The Survivor knows this and is going to try to predict what action the Spirit is going to cover.
Thus they are both trying to predict a prediction. That's a textbook case of WIFOM.
If there truly was no mindgame then the Survivor would have no guess to make.
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Having a few Killers that aren't as good as the rest at mid to high ranks can be a good thing actually, for example having those Killers general means that A: You can have a low skill power and B: It's a great way to show a new player what weaknesses are important to cover when developing a strategy.
However these Killers must be the minority or else you have a big problem.
The trapper is a good example of this. He:
A: Is very simple and straight forward to use
B: Isn't very good. But when you are playing him it is very easy to see exactly why he is not good and in a way that can be applied to other Killers
C: Has an equivalent Killer who covers his design space while also being actually good (hag)
Other than something like that you want to make everyone as close as possible to create balance.
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@miaasma said:
yeah dude all those posts where i've talked about how map design screws weaker killers over and how pseudo infinites need to be removed are such survivor-sided viewpoints, i should really stop doing that
not thinking killers should be rewarded for swamping bad survivors is the same as not thinking survivors should be rewarded for escaping vs a new killer, so i don't see a survivor bias. thanks for playing
Survivors should be rewarded for escaping vs a new Killer. That way those survivors will stop being matched with new Killers that they can easily escape from and will instead be matched with better Killers who will put up a fight.
Having repeated decisive victories against players that were supposedly your rank is one of the biggest signs that you are in the wrong rank. And when facing new Killers as a competent Survivor you would certainly have those repeated decisive victories. And thus since you are in a rank where you are matched against noob Killers we should fix that by giving you pips.
This exact same reasoning applies to Killers
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I'd say the distance shouldn't be the terror radius and instead be some set smaller number. Like 8-16 meters or something.
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@miaasma said:
the main issue with discussions regarding spirit is their propensity to describe her playstyle as having to do with "mindgames", the problem being that there's no mindgame because the survivor can't know what you're doing ever and spirit knows where the survivor is all the time thanks to visual and audio tells. spirit's playstyle is a guessing game for the survivor, and a reaction for the spirit
Clearly you don't know what a mindgame is.
If you have enough information to deduce the correct course of action then it isn't a mindgame, the entire point of a mindgame is that you are predicting a prediction. If you are bad at mindgames this leads to a 50/50. If you are good at mindgames then you will do better than random chance.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Why the #########?
Because changes are hard when you are using spaghetti code, this post only blew up recently and BHVR takes forever to make changes in general.
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@NullSp3c said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/568866#Comment_568866
The 110% one is better imo because it also gives legion the spreading mechanic and also makes his power lethal instead of making him a loopable 4.6 ms killer, it's more flexible and has better mechanics. I just don't think that legion, no matter the changes, is not designed to be a 115% killer.
This is true. But I wanted to try anyways.
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I created a 115% version of this fix concept for people who like the new legion better.
The Legion used to be a 110% Killer, but had some problems. In an attempt to fix those problems I made the following post:Personally I still prefer the 110% version but I can make it work either way.
It's mostly just number changes compared to this one. However remember that the new legion has a bigger miss penalty and can't see blood. I didn't remove that here.
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@NullSp3c said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/568426#Comment_568426
We can also drop some add-on ideas THAT FOLLOW UP WITH THE POST, shall we?
"Scratched Ruler", "Wretched Ruler" and "Iridescent Button" should NOT be changed.
Friendship Bracelet
A wide grey and red braided rope bracelet. The inscription "F. J. S. J." can be seen, crudely written in bold black ink.
- Slightly increases Killer Instinct detection range.
Never-Sleep Pills
Highly caffeinated tablets to make you extra sharp for exams or draining activities.
- Moderately increases Killer Instinct detection range.
Susie's Mixtape
A fast and thrilling mix tape with energising songs with break-neck beats.
- Considerably increases Killer Instinct detection range.
Given the movement speed buff, these add-ons are really good when they got the patch and don't become overpowered. Just changed Susie's Mixtape value to Considerably from Tremendously so that it doesn't become delusional that you can reach them at some point.
Nasty Blade
This blade is stained with unsanitary spots of grime that make injuries particularly difficult to mend.
Slightly-> Moderately increases the amount of time required for Survivor to complete the Mend action. Does not stack.
Filthy Blade
This blade is stained with foul spots of blood and grime that make injuries particularly difficult to mend.
Moderatly->Considerably increases the amount of time required for Survivors to complete the Mend action. Does not stack.
Both of these add-ons were buffed because the mend timer was downed by a third of it's old amount. I'm not sure about he "does not stack part" because if you compare it with doctor's tier 3 madness that has add-ons to increase the timer, it is not that hard to get out BUT isn't that fun to stay like 20 seconds trying to hit TREMENDOUSLY difficult skill checks. So this change is only the devs decision to put it or not.
Julie's Mixtape
A dark and depressing mix tape made out from mainly power ballads and gloomy melodies.
- Slightly decreases the cool-down duration of Feral Frenzy when hitting a survivor in the deep wound state.
Joey's Mixtape
A mix of bangin' tracks and slammin' beats for chillaxin' when life's a #########.
- Moderately decreases the cool-down duration of Feral Frenzy when hitting a survivor in the deep wound state.
Cold Dirt
A handful of dirt collected from the janitor's final resting place. It is unnaturally cold.
- Considerably decreases the cool-down duration of when hitting a survivor in the deep wound state.
These add-ons were changed to only reduce the cooldown when hitting a survivor that already has deep wounds applied because of the change that cancelling the power manually reduces the cooldown from 3 to 2 seconds.
Smiley Face Pin
A friendly looking, bright yellow button used as a sarcastic statement.
- Slightly reduces the minimum power gauge needed to activate Feral Frenzy.
Defaced Smiley Pin
A once friendly looking, bright yellow button of a defaced smiley. A signature icon of The Legion.
- Moderately reduces the minimum power gauge needed to activate Feral Frenzy.
The Legion Pin
A handmade button with the face of The Legion. To use exclusively on intimidation dares.
- Considerably reduces the maximum power gauge needed to activate Feral Frenzy.
These changes were made to give the Pins a purpose and helping to chain survivors by being able to use the power quickly.
Mischief List
A list of mischievous missions to accomplish, memento of brighter days.
- Slightly increases the Feral Frenzy duration.
Mural Sketch
A rough sketch of The Legion mural torn from a notebook.
- Moderately increases the Feral Frenzy duration.
- Slightly reduces Feral Frenzy movement speed. Back to the old speed(5.28 ms).
- The movement speed debuff does not stack.
Stolen Sketch Book
A sketch book with imaginative and evocative, if not slightly bizarre sketches.
- Considerably increases the Feral Frenzy duration.
- Slightly reduces Feral Frenzy movement speed. Back to the old speed(5.28 ms)
- The movement speed debuff does not stack.
All the values were not changed but they reduce the feral frenzy movement speed (except for mischief list, because it would make the add-on useless and not worth running) so that they can't run the entire map in feral frenzy given the ms buff and the killer instinct half-draining the power bar.
Fuming Mixtape
Dark beats, violent shreds and unfathomable vocals from another world fill the mind with a vibrating sixth sense.
- While using Feral Frenzy, the Repair Progress of Generators can be determined by the intensity of their Auras.
Rarity changed from Ultra Rare to Very Rare.
Nothing special to see here. The add-on is simply not worth ad Ultra Rare spot. It will be filled later don't worry.
Stab Wounds Study
A printed medical article stolen from Ormond's public library, vulgarising a study on lesions and stab wounds.
- Moderately increases the skill check chances while Mending.
- Slightly increases the skill checks difficulty.
- Moderately increases the rate at which the Deep Wound timer goes down when the survivor is more than 16 meters away.
Values:
0-16 meters: still 0.
17-24: 2 charges per second.
25-32: 3 charges per second.
32+: 4 chrages per second.
With this change, the add-on is strong as a Very Rare add-on should be and is related with it's name and purpose.
Frank's Mixtape
Never go on a kill mission without your tunes. A track list of massive distortions and loud percussion that stabs at your eardrums.
- Vaulting while in Feral Frenzy no longer drains the power gauge.
- Survivors mending within the killer's terror radius are revealed to you.
Rarity changed from Very Rare to Ultra Rare.
This add-on is powerful and given that it is a Ultra Rare add-on now, can complete its purpose.
Why did you post this twice?
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Because all of the other ones are invisible so you can't see them.
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@OMagic_ManO said:
This is pre Legion rework idea, you need new Legion.
If people think it would be a good idea I could do another legion fix that uses new legion as a base instead of old legion.
I'd be hard but I'm not going to just say it's impossible.
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@NullSp3c said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/568140#Comment_568140
Should I put this thread in the "general discussions" page? The devs almost never see the killer forum.
You should. I always do
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@NullSp3c said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/568104#Comment_568104
So... I'll put it as resumed as possible.
Both Blades: Reverted to the old values.
Cool-down: The same as before, but just to when hitting a survivor that is already in deep wounds or if the power ends by itself(not manually tho).
The pins: The common one reduces it from 60% to 54%, the uncommon one from 60 to 44% and the green one from 60 to 34%.
The duration: Old values but reduces the movement speed from 5.6ms to 5.28ms.
Stab Wounds Sudy: I don't know the doctor's values in the tier 3 madness but with "slightly increases the skill checks difficulty" i mean that it reduces the skill checks size by 15%( i know it isn't slightly but they are TREMENDOUSLY difficult skill checks so it they are very small. And increase the chances of getting a skill check pretty much like unnerving presence BUT i don't know the skill check chance at tier 3 madness so i want it to increase by a good amount.
Frank's Mixtape: They suffer from a 15% speed penalty. (I'm not that satisfied with this add-on btw, even being Ultra Rare).
or
I can follow your idea and make it so that Vaulting with Feral Frenzy doesn't reduce the power bar.
And give something extra give that it is a Ultra Rare add-on.
Blades: Fine
Cooldown: Fine
Pins: Fine
Duration: I'm not so sure about having it decrease the speed by that much. Stacking them would make it 4.96 M/S. Can it reduce the MS by 0.16 instead?
SWS: Is skill check difficulty really that powerful? Hitting skillchecks aren't that hard even when made more difficult than usual. If it were up to me I would make it increase the passive DW drain when more than 16 meters away.
Franks: Maybe. Might be OP.
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8% is not slightly.
Anyways I'd imagine we could have more unique addons than that.
For example an addon that removes the drain on Frenzy vaults.
And can you please use numbers instead of words? How much is considerably exactly? It's not consistent in this game.
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@NullSp3c said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/567768#Comment_567768
You're the creator of this idea so i need your approvement on this.
2 things i want to mention:
About the post:
1st: The number of charges cut down when hitting a sruvivor with deep wounds while in feral frenzy should be increased from 10 to 15 so that you need to stab the survivor only 3 additional times(with the hit applying deep wounds makes it 4 hits) instead of 4 (or 5 in total). This is balanced because, unless you have killer instinct on, you can't vault pallets.
About the mentioned comment where you give the look of the power description in-game:
2nd: You said "vault pallets" instead of "vaulting windows" on "while the power is active" and this makes people confused.
Oops. Typo, it's supposed to say vaulting windows.
Anyways, having it be 4 hits is by design. The whole point for having the hits work in the first place is so that he can get downs by leaving a survivor and then coming back while they are mending in order to finish them off. And not so that you can repeatedly use Frenzy in order to down them.
While you can still do that, having it be 4 hits still even with all of the limitations I gave it makes it not problematic. Especially since injured survivors need one less hit.
Plus Frank's still needs to do SOMETHING ;)
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If anyone is wondering the in game description would look something like this:
Feral Frenzy
Legion has a Frenzy Power Gauge that builds up over time. The power, Feral Frenzy, can be activated by tapping the Power button. When activate, the power drains rapidly and the power ends when the gauge is empty, triggering an extended recovery fatigue.
When activating Feral Frenzy, The Legion stops and screams while entering a deadly rage. While the power is active:
- The Legion sprints faster than base movement speed.
- The Legion can vault windows at an increased speed but doing so drains the Killers power slightly
- The Legion breaks pallets and generator tremendously faster.
- Survivors scratch marks are hidden from the Killer's view.
- Missed attacks have a reduced cooldown.
While Feral Frenzy is active hitting a Survivor who does not have deep wounds will injure them if they are not already injured, apply deep wounds onto them, refills your entire power gauge and activates killer instinct. While Killer instinct is active:
- The Legions power is drained half as fast
- The aura of survivors within the Killers terror radius who do not have the deep wounds status are revealed
- The Legions may also vault pallets, draining his power slightly, but may not break them
- The recovery fatigue when canceling the Killers power manually is significantly reduced.
When Feral Frenzy is active hitting a Survivor who is currently affected by the deep wounds status effect:
- Reduces the Survivors bleed out timer by half or by a minimum amount.
- Depletes the Killers power gauge and ends the power immediately
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So apparently movement speed during fatigue time is 2.7 M/S
This means that the Survivors will gain 2.6 meters on you when you cancel Frenzy out of Killer instinct and 3.9 meters canceling normally. This was already true with old legion while using/not using the cooldown addons stacked.
This is about 5 seconds worth of distance btw.
Since this is essentially just base kit pre-patch cooldown legion this video is a good example of how that particular aspect plays out:
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Devs: We have heard your complaints. Thus in order to make it easier to catch up to scattering survivor's, Feral Frenzy now has an unlimited durration. We have heard your feecback about missing an attack, so it will no longer kick you out of your power. We have also heard your feedback about hitting a Survivor with Deep Wounds not being worth the 4 seconds stun, so hitting a Survivor with DW no longer kicks you out either and instead just gives them the speedboost with no other effect.
To counterbalance this you can no longer manually cancel Feral Frenzy.
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Also the M1 not draining thing that no one noticed because there is literally no reason why it should be there in the first place.
It doesn't interact with the rest of his mechanics or his chase mechanics so I can't even bring it up with the counterplay thing because it adds literally nothing to the game which is just so stupid. And thus removing it doesn't effect the game either except in that it makes slug builds not as #########.
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@miaasma said:
i stopped reading when i saw the "looks up at the sky and roars" suggestion because i could not stop laughing
When I said that the Legion can totally maintain his old identity while having counterplay this is what specific changes I think would be needed to accomplish that goal.
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Just some more math regarding stuff:
Vaulting a window will drain the durration by 0.9 seconds (6*0.15) and also takes 0.9 seconds to do which means each vault reduces the total travel distance by 10 meters.
This means there is a maximum of 4 vaults per frenzy and gives vaulting a meaningful cost without it technically slowing you down.
Breaking a pallet in frenzy is 50% faster than normal but that's again 1.8 seconds of drain, the difference being that unlike with window vaulting (or pallet vaulting with KI) you actually do directly slowdown.
Specifically the survivor will travel 7.2 Meters in that time. If you activate your power first (and thus have the 0.75 stun) it's 10.2 meters which is actually still less than breaking the pallet normally would be.
Vaulting during Killer Instinct is instead a 0.9 total drain since the drain is cut in half. This makes it identical to pre-patch legion, but is balanced by the fact that you can't take advantage of this in order to tunnel someone since you need to have already hit someone without deep wounds in order to get the reduced drain.