Neyar
Neyar
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I think the only viable method to reduce tunneling and camping is to make the alternative of 12 hooking the objectively better play.
The exact values are subject to change, but in DBD tournaments, they award scoring weighted by hook stage. So first stage is 3 points, second is 2, and later stages are only 1 in the tourneys I've seen.
Using this scoring, you could give the survivor team a collective pool of, say, 18 hook points. Each hook reduces the pool by the weighted number. But no survivors can die on hook until the pool hits zero.
Want to camp one survivor? Well, you're going to be there forever because he hangs on hook until you get to 18 points, which is 3 points for the first stage, 2 for second, and 1 point for every 60 seconds after that. Death hook would take 15 minutes with this system. Same thing with tunneling.
But, if you play for hooking everyone individually you end up needing less than 12 hooks to kill all survivors. This would be the optimal play, and everything else would be so inefficient it would be laughable.
This isn't exactly perfect, and it's complicated, but it's arguably better than trying to punish these play styles with penalties. Players tend to gravitate to the most efficient play style naturally.
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@Nobsyde said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3087739#Comment_3087739
it already works like this btw - for slowdown perks the stacking is not "additive", but multiplicative on the outcome:
let's say 4 stacks of thana (22% slowdown) + pentimento (30%). The total is not 52% slowdown (22+30), but ≈45% (100 - 100*(0.78 * 0.7))
If anything I think BHVR should nerf a lot of numbers now that gen speed has been changed.
They really need to cap things like this to a maximum speed increase or reduction.
It boggles my mind that self healing speed and gen progress slowdown are still not both capped.
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@Llokki said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3087141#Comment_3087141
Thank you for the correction, my mistake. Still, that's 5.3s difference taking the generator change into consideration as well, not 14s like that other person was claiming. And given that the main complaint on this thread seems to be about Thana, it really shouldn't. So reverting to old Thana, we'll have 90/(1-0.2) = 112.5, so a difference of 2.8s. 2.8s extra time on each generator assuming you are able to keep all survivors permanently injured. That's what this thread is complaining about (going by the subject heading and many of the replies)...
I'm not saying that the new generator times don't take an age compared to old, but blaming it on a 2% increase to Thana is just dumb.
The percentage is missing the effects of the patch as a whole.
Before the patch, an 80 second gen with 4 stacks of Thana took 96 seconds to complete.
After the patch, a now 90 second gen with 4 stacks of Thana takes 115 seconds to complete.
So, with all of the combined changes in the patch, this scenario takes an extra 19 seconds per gen. That's the part people notice and complain about.
Not to mention, Thana used to be more of a niche perk, but now everyone and their mom runs it.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3085212#Comment_3085212
The thana complain is simply people jumping on a bandwagon. 0,5% increase is barely noticeble. But those threads look like its a 50% buff.
Old slowdown meta perks were all nuked.
It's because of the math behind it. 'It's only a 2% buff, no one notices it' isn't the whole picture.
Before, with 80 second gens and 4 stacks of Thana, a single gen took 96 seconds.
Now, after patch, a 90 second gen with 4 stacks of Thana takes 115 seconds. That's 19 seconds longer per gen using the exact same scenario. It gets exponentially longer with other recently popular perks like gift of pain and penti.
Plus, Thana is everywhere right now. It used to be niche for a few killers, but now everyone and their mom runs it.
So instead, it feels like base gen speed went from 80 seconds to 115 overnight.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3078434#Comment_3078434
They mean it's by default a window, and you break it to make it a doorway.
But all that is, is a pallet that's already down. A pallet that starts off dropped, all that's doing is robbing survivors of a chance to stun the killer.
Ok that makes more sense. I read it as a window blocked by wood that a killer would have to shatter to create an open window.
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I'm not sure of the purpose of breakable windows. Window vaulting and pallets are the only terrain that survivors can traverse faster than killers by default. It will never be in the interest of the killer to open a breakable window intentionally.
It'd be like if basement hooks only spawned if survivors agreed unanimously in the match lobby. Might as well delete them.
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Confusing/Lazy trapper: Bloody coil, padded jaws. Deathbound, Thana, Hysteria, Nurse's Calling.
Traps work exactly backwards from normal, disarm to be injured, but step in it to stay healthy.
Place traps in the most obvious places imaginable. They injure themselves disarming it. Healing makes them oblivious, staying injured also makes them oblivious. Added bonus that anyone randomly injured by disarming a trap triggers hysteria.
Plus, if they step in a trap healthy mid chase, there's always one second after I hit them before they realize they aren't downed yet, cause the trap didn't take a health state.
One of the most hilarious builds I've tried.
Edit: formatting.
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Usually I don't care about escaping if the game was good. Had a great Onryo game the other day where she played well, had good chases and interaction, and was one of my more fun games lately despite dying that game. She was cool in EGC, which is always a plus.
But my games today were atrocious. My last game tonight was a Thana, Plaything, Pentimento huntress who proxy camped every other hook. We did two gens, and the second gen popped right before hatch spawned. Maybe with full comms/SWF it would be manageable, but that game felt purely unwinnable soloq.
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NOED and the live version of dead hard have the same exact problem.
* You don't know if the other side has it until they use it the first time.
* Playing to counter it wastes a bunch of time, if they don't have it.
* If you don't play to counter it, you potentially waste even more time or lose the game.
* If the game is close, having the perk can decide the entire match.
I'm glad dead hard is being gutted, because it's too easy to use and can be frustrating to go up against. I'm disappointed in the NOED changes for basically the same reason.
I'd much rather have NOED not be a hex perk at all, and just say 'When the exit gates are powered, all healthy survivors are immediately put into the injured state.' It's basically the same thing in chase, potentially slows down exit gates for healing, and doesn't rely on totem RNG.
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@Peanits said:
Getting hit while both Borrowed Time and Off the Record are active will deactivate both perks simultaneously the first time you are hit. They do not grant consecutive protection. Multiple concurrent Endurance effects only extend the duration to the longest of the bunch.
So, wait, if BT is disabled completely the first time you are hit, does that mean you also lose the haste effect too?
If so, that seems like it would encourage just hitting a survivor immediately off hook to disable any potential future endurance with Off the Record if they can get away, and easy tunneling before they can mend if they can't. Can you clarify if only the endurance of BT is being disabled in this scenario?