Massquwatt
Massquwatt
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Eh, I don't think they'll ever nerf nurse but I don't really care because she's balanced in a particular way. The tradeoff for getting good with her and dunking on people is where you have to spend half of every match staring at the floor and that's enough to keep 99% of people away from playing her.
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I don't think he'd work in this game at all. Totally different franchise from a different genre, plus I imagine working Disney would be genuinely awful and not worth the hassle. We still got a lot of horror franchises that BHVR can poach from yet.
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I don't think it'll be the worst thing in the world in terms of player agency. All this talk about removing the ability to ######### on hook makes it seem like you're committing to a 40+ minute match of Dota 2 or something and that isn't the case at all. Most DBD matches will go for ~10 minutes, maybe 15-20 on an exceptionally long match but that isn't a lot of time to commit. It can't be THAT bad to just auto-pilot for a match that you aren't particularly interested in.
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The problem with tunneling is that people get a bit confused about what tunneling is. Most times you could be accused of tunneling are just survivors making plain bad plays or just downright bad luck and in that sense I think that's fine. Because as a killer, you're developing a keen sense of when you should be punishing survivors for their mistakes. Actual hard tunneling people off the hook every single time does promote bad gameplay and growth and should be fixed but that RARELY ever happens. I think that's the fundamental misunderstanding here, when a lot of people say "don't rely on tunneling" it's just another way of saying "don't capitalize on enemy mistakes" which doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
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Isn't that what VHS had? And that just devolved into squads of survivors bullying killers until the game was over. You can't really make it balanced.
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I think it's a fairly easy way to implement such a feature. Once the EGC begins, if all survivors are within 32m of a powered gate then you can abandon freely. Because outside of very specific circumstances and builds, survivors have basically won in that moment for all intents and purposes, there's really no reason for all four survivors to stand around at an open gate for an extended period of time.
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If it were up to me, the best way to encourage 12 hooking people properly is to remove the hex status from Ruin and turn it into a regular perk. 100% automatic gen regression until a survivor dies, then it deactivates for the rest of the game.
Boom, easy. Now killers have a huge incentive to try and spread their hooks around for as long as possible.
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Babysitter is a great perk and gets slept on quite regularly but that being said I don't think it really needed the buff to be honest.
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@Pulsar said:
Perhaps they should address common pain points…
Like how when one Survivor dies before 3 gens are done, the match is functionally over. Or how abysmal Survivor BP gains are. Or a lack of meaningful comeback mechanics.
Instead of doing that stuff, let's hardware ban anyone who suicides on hook, that'll surely solve the problem this time!
I'm all for incentivizing people to keep playing during the match but realistically if somebody dies before 3 gens are done what can you even do? Automatically end the game for everyone? Physically prevent anyone from dying before that point? It's a bit silly. Sometimes you're gonna get a quick match where you're dunked on, other times it'll be a long drawn out slog. It's kind of the nature of short nature of matches.
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I personally like it but it isn't a perk for every killer. 5% for 15 seconds isn't anything to sneeze at and it can be particularly nasty on killers like Freddy or clown since the stacking hinder can make second hit really easy to follow up on.
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I don't like the rework at all. However, that being said I believe BHVR had genuine intentions to keep her simplified and easy to understand. I think the problem was is that they quickly realized how much of a nightmare she was going to be to balance in her first iteration, the proposed second iteration fixes a lot of the problems of the first but they've kinda circled the wagon and gone back to making her have too many moving parts again. Frankly I don't even know what the solution is going forward with the rework. What we're gonna get is what we'll get because to me at least it's starting to get to the point where it'll be a situation where nobody will be happy with the rework.
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I think my most biggest concern coming into the SM rework is that you can physically control the drones and use them to monitor survivors, right? Because while that sounds cool doesn't it kind of make her PDA/Radar completely useless? In terms of information and tracking at least which kind of blows because it's a unique tracking mehanic that essentially gives you real-time positions of survivors and no other killer has that. I'd rather not see an important mechanic get watered down into near-redundancy.
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Even a couple of months ago when he was in his weakest state he was still hovering around the top 3 in terms of killrates. I think he's in a good spot at the moment because he's got a strong kit but it also comes with an equally strong counter (clocks). Any number tweaks could make him feel extremely sluggish to play.
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It's a bit annoying sure but it's nice that BHVR has made a genuinely fun killer to play as so I can't really fault him for his popularity. It's a nice change of pace since other recent killer releases have been lackluster where their popularity falls off a cliff within the first 2 days of release.
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@Neaxolotl said:
If you are talking about blood moon event, this is the world where regression doesn't exist
every game is tunnel or gens done in 6 minutes, there is no in between
Honestly the no gen regression isn't even that bad. What ruins the event are the blood pump spawns. They're either so far away from blood gens that you have to do cross country to fill up blood gens or they spawn so close to blood gens that it's practically a free game. There's no in-between.
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Deadzones, mostly. Doesn't mean sabo builds are worthless though you just have to be more mindful about them. Sabo builds have never been about completely denying the killer a hook, just delaying a hook that can potentially lead to a hook denial depending on how you or your teammates play the moment.
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I think we should at least keep the RNG stuff like spawns and tiles. Can the spawn logic be better? Absolutely but I don't really mind the idea of it since it's supposed to keep you on your toes and add a bit of flavour to things. I absolutely adore Midwich but it'd get a bit stale if every match was like Midwich because in my eyes, it'd come down to a matter of knowledge of pre-existings loops and pallets which isn't entirely a bad thing on it's own but a sprinkle of randomness keeps things fresher for longer.
As for chests/killer props I'm of two minds on that. On one hand, it can be annoying if you're playing as Sadako or Xeno because chests get priority spawn but on the other, it can also be an indirect advtange for killers like Freddy, Pig or Vecna since it spawns their props farther apart from each other making survivors waste more time accessing them. Personally I actually quite like the idea of subtle map manipulation, it's an interesting seeing how different mechanics work with each other and how you can nudge things arounds. I wouldn't be upset if BHVR made it so killer props got priority over chests but I'll admit I'm probably in a very small minority that has interest in that sorta thing.
As for the blood moon event itself….Yeah, I think the spawns actually do need fixing. I had a match on the Temple of Purgation recently where the blood pumps spawned within 8m of THREE blood gens. Horrendous rng on my part? Yeah, but in cases like that where survivors basically had three free generators. That's kinda silly.
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@cesspoolechochamber said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914649#Comment_3914649
Why do people have to play the way you want them to? If I don't want to finish a match I'm not having fun because of the way another player is playing, why should anyone be forced to keep playing to make sure others are having fun? How many times has the saying "it's not my job to make sure you are having fun in the game" been uttered by players on this forum who are responding to complaints of play style. Hundreds if not thousands. I'll say this again telling people to stay in the match by shamming or penalizing them isn't going to fix the issue.
I think a basic penalty system should remain in place, at the very least people shouldn't just be allowed to disconnect freely. I don't want my matches to have bots if it can't be belped and neither do you or anyone for that matter. Outside of extremely egregiously bad situations, I don't like to DC or sacrifice myself on the hook but being on the other end of that behaviour is not fun and can completely tank your chances in the match. If it gets to the point where I'm just simply not enjoying myself then I just get off the game and go do something else for a while, which would be my advice to people here. This game has a pretty low commitment threshold all things considered so why not take advantage of that? It's not like Fortnite or Overwatch where you have to be constantly on that BP grinding because of fomo nonsense.
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I think a lot of it really boils down to the game's fundamental nature of it being a casual game as well as the fact dbd's game mechanics are designed to be frustrating on purpose. No matter what role you play, killer or survivor there's things that'll annoy and frustrate you even on matches where you're winning. For survivor at least you have to understand that your success (escaping) is largely determined by your teammates since it's the teamwork focused role, too many people have this strange idea that somehow just because you're a good survivor that somehow should translate to more escapes which isn't how the role works. You either have to temper expectations or go by alternative win conditions (how many survivors in total escape) rather than your own.
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I think the go to strategy for dealing with tunnelling in general should always be perks that disinecentivize killers from tunneling and ones that incentivize killers for spreading out their hooks a little more. I would like to put an emphasis on the incentivize part there because tunnelling should always be on the table and should be used at the killer's discretion depending on how the match is going. That you can't truly stop tunnelling outside of giving the unhooked survivor literal invincibility. I think that new survivor perk is a good step towards disincentivizing tunnelling and I'll be looking forward to giving it a try.
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I do think they'll eventually get around to giving just about everyone their own TR music, it just really sucks that Freddy will most likely never get his own TR theme because he really deserves it. Supposedly the Wes Craven estate are really awful to work with when it comes to licensing and stuff.
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Iri addons should ideally do two things:
Considerably buff an aspect of a killer's kit with an associated downside
Or completely change up how a killer plays, maybe into meme-worthy territory if you want.
As long as aren't going back to the days of doing X gives exposed I guess.
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I think it's also worth nothing that even perks like Fireup aren't affected by blood gens being completed either so by the endgame you'll be sitting on 2 or 3 stacks. It's highly annoying how many perks are rendered useless or severely gimped. Also, certain killers have their powers gimped on top too because of the lack of gen interaction.
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To be fair MFT has always been the problem child of a perk. Rather than just giving you a free haste on injured they changed it to being on a more nich effect (deep wounds.) Because of the new killer people are getting pretty good use out of it again and realizing how annoying it is to go against and lack of tell that somebody is using it. It's kind of the problem with haste perks with killer/survivor in general. Either activation is too niche making it provide little value or the haste effect itself is too small to provide any value. Haste is just too difficult to balance around.
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Pretty nice post, one of the reasons why I really like Nemmy's zombies being their own thing rather than something you control. I just personally like the idea of them doing their own thing and being able to subtly nudge their actions through different perks and stuff, it's just a shame they can be so buggy sometimes.
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It's a very rare interaction to begin with (franklins/white ward) and to be honest I'm not really sure how you can make it so that you keep your item against franklin's when white ward is in play, at least not having it cause issues. The only two ways to go about it would be either:
- White wards essentially glue your item to your hand, franklin's can't drop it no matter what but would that also mean you can't drop the item yourself? I don't know. Not to mention this version would just completely negate franklin's which would circle back to your original problem, a perk/offering negating one another.
- You keep the item regardless if it's in your hand or on the ground when you die. Which would be better but also presents the problem of what happens if you've picked up multiple items during a match, BHVR would have to code an ownership system where maybe the last item you've touched is the one you keep but somebody else could pick it up transferring ownership to them instead.
My personal opinion is that the white ward vs franklin's thing is kind of a non-issue. Blood webs are so cheap and you'll be swimming in so many bloodpoints is that you will always be stocked up on what you need. I think the best solution going forward is to rework the white and black ward offerings themselves to something else.
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Yeah I really dunno about these changes. The recent Freddy changes were great because you guys kept everything about the previous Freddy and made him better, with this there's almost nothing left from the previous Skull Merchant. While this is more a "vibes" sorta thing I think it's a very weird direction for a killer that relies on monitoring and information to turn her drones into mini bombers and is really off-brand for a killer like her? In my mind at least it'd make more sense if her drones acted more like Singularity's pods where you could shoot claw traps at survivors from a distance. Speaking of which the removal of those along with the scans is kinda lame. I think the claw traps should return in some form at least, especially the old ones that you have manually remove. Make it a penalty for failing a hack or maybe hacking too many drones in a certain timeframe?
I'm really sorry I don't have anything constructive to bring into the thread other than just "I don't like it" but a lot these changes are just fundamental removals of her kit. I get the hindered and haste stuff is problematic but surely there's a way to balance around that while keeping her current kit?
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In terms of information it's pretty good at the moment with the status icons, I think it would be better to expand on that system more rather than just heaping more perks onto survivor basekit as a stop gap. I also maintain that the issue of soloQ is mostly an attitude problem, you are simply not incentivized to work as a team therefore there's no real reason for a soloQ survivor to worry about anything other than their own escape potential. Things like basekit kindred won't stop people from being selfish and stupid because that already happens when you run the perks anyway. I think it's better to look for ways to promote more altruistic playstyles, ones that encourage all survivors to try and look out for each other.
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From personal experience latency tends to get a bit iffy around vaults and what is/isn't determined as a hit. I've played matches with crappy ping on Killer and you absolutely do FEEL it. Especially if you're playing as a killer that requires precise timing/accuracy on something. However I don't shifting the burden from one side to the other is a productive solution either, in an ideal world BHVR would pay for a couple of extra servers so people in less populated regions can enjoy decent matches but that's a matter of cost. That being said it's a lot better than what it used to be when lobbies were using the killer's connection soley for everything. I'm glad we aren't back in those days.
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It sounds really good in theory but the effect is pretty mediocre, that along with the condition that it only works if the pallet isn't broken means it's only good on killers that can play around dropped pallets….which isn't a lot. Without extensive testing it's hard to know who it'll benefit the most but my guess? Maybe Houndmaster? She's pretty good at playing around dropped pallets but that's all I can think of at this time.
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New knockout doesn't seem to have a cooldown, does it work every time a pallet is just dropped? Kinda crazy for zoning potential depending on the killer. I wonder if it works for Freddy's dream pallets as well because if so that'd be hilarious.
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Yeah I don't really get the turret changes either. They still don't do anything if survivor's use them badly or put them in bad spots. Seems like it just gives competent survivors an easier time to counter crawler mode which kinda sucks.
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I think Xeno is fine the most part, I play her quite a lot and while good coordinated survivor really suck to go against you don't go against them too often. What usually happens is that survivors either put turrets right next to the tunnels, don't move the turrets after a gen is completed or just plain don't bother with them at all. That being said, she could use three QoL changeS:
- Tail attacks against turrets AREN'T counted as missed attacks.
- Basic attacks against turrets ARE counted as missed swings.
- An option to bring back the PTB chase music.
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She's actually pretty tolerable and even fun on some maps despite how weak she can. What I actually can't tolerate are the drones buggin' out every fifth one. BHVR seriously need to fix the rotation bugs because it's kinda stupid how often it happens.
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I don't know how feasible it is but what if they nerfed map offerings in the way where playing generates WORSE tiles/pallet spawns depends on who plays it? E.g. If a survivor plays it then tiles become unsafer and the inverse for killer. And if both the survivor and killer play the same map offering? I dunno, the map explodes or something I guess.
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It's a crutch perk for sure but outside of dedicated end game builds I actually don't see it all that much anymore. Maybe once every 15 matches or so? It's kinda surprising just how much out of favour it's fallen.
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It's just carry over from the old chess merchant days and it'll be a stink that'll carry even through to her rework unfortunately. The hate will never go down no matter how fun you make her to verse. Although the idea that people DC against her for "not being fun" is a bit silly when the Legion still exists and being the least interactable killer in the game. She's not a very hard killer to beat these days and not very strong either and yet, I still have people kill themselves on hook on what are totally winnable matches.
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I don't see the harm in having unrelenting work on the turrets like that. If anything I want to see other perks work on killer props like Dominance. Have it work on killer props like Xeno's control stations, sadako's tvs, freddy's clocks, Pig's boxes, etc. Even reduce the time back down to 8 seconds again, that perk needs to work on more things.
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I don't miss old Sadako, her current iteration is fine and I still enjoy playing her. But Chucky on the other hand? Good lord he sucks these days, even if he isn't technically weak he just feels awful to play generally now. Outside of running meme addons that let you slice n' dice across the map during endgame he's honestly got nothing going for him anymore these days. His power sucks, his perks are mostly bad and his addons are all boring stat adjustments. No variety whatsoever.
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Yeah, they're still bugged where they won't rotate for some reason. I wanna throw it around a 15-20% chance of it happening, it's quite annoying. There's also a much rarer bug where for whatever reason, a survivor that looks directly at a drone can still get scanned even if the line doesn't pass through them.
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I don't know about a rubberband system, dead by daylight is an assymetrical game at heart. The 1 v 4, the dynamics between killer and survivor are hard to adjust for and frankly, wouldn't be fun because realistically the only thing you could feasibly account for in a rubberband system are generator speeds and that's just an awful idea all around.
Faster gen speeds if you're winning too hard as killer? That's no fun.
Slower gen speeds if you're winning too hard as survivor? That's no fun.
Not to mention it'd throw the balance of gen-related perks completely out of whack on both sides.
I also think that at the most simple argument is that if either side is performing poorly or making too many/aggregious mistakes, why should they be rewarded at all? Dbd is a pretty punishing game and losing really sucks but I don't think having a system in place that rewards bad/sloppy play is a good idea.
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If I were to guess there's probably only so many potential spawns for chests on a map so bhvr would have to account the maximum potential of chests that could spawn on a map and if there was a situation where there are too many chests and not enough places to spawn it'd probably break the game in some weird, unforseeable way so it's just easier to move the killer props out more to make the space. That's my GUESS on it so the solution would have to be go over the maps again, add in more spawn points for chests/killer props and maybe go over light geometry changes so nothing's not spawning inside of rocks/walls/etc. Whether or not it's worth the work is a different question.
Edit: Just adding in some extra but most maps have 3 chests as default, add on 4 shiny coins, the 2 bonus chests from hoarder and having a Sadako play the match so throw in 8 tv's and that's like what. 21 spots needed on a map in order to keep everything in place? Throw in stuff like gen spawns to account for, totem placements, hook placements and I can imagine how tricky things get at that point.
By no means I'm trying to excuse bhvr for not taking action on it. I'd love them to do so but it's probably a rather complicated situation to sort out.
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It's not bad in theory but it's kinda outclassed by the iri that gives you stealth. It gives you way more freedom in how to approach survivors after detecting them.
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Her power is balanced out by the fact that she's utterly awful to play as, even more clunky than the twins. Bonus points if you send her to a map with multiple floors, you can watch the dog struggle to comprehend what 'elevation' is.
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bhvr always had a bad habit of changing chase music. I'll forever be sad that Xeno's music got changed from the PTB into something generic and borning.
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If I were to guess they'll probably buff the chains themselves but in exchange neuter the box to where it's just a suggestion like pig's traps.
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I play survivor quite regularly and I always think to myself "Where are all these serial sluggers at?", seriously. A killer that goes out of their way to slug everyone and leave on the floor is a rare outlier? The only conclusion that I can come to with these threads is that apparently OCE killers are normal, empathetic human beings while the rest of the world is apparently populated by the dregs of society or something. In which, sucks to be you guys I guess.
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I absolutely agree that the bug needs getting fixed because it's pretty absurd just how often it happens. As for the window stuff, that seriously sucks too because of someone that actually enjoys using low-power mode it kinda sucks the effectiveness of their zoning potential.
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The actual cases of having a killer slug me and leave me bleed out intentionally are pretty rare and from my experience, most killers don't actually go out of their way to intentionally slug survivors. More often than not, I'm left on the ground for an extended period of time because I'm under a pallet and there's a survivor nearby attempting a save which the killer knows of. Or I'm downed and the killer knows there's somebody else very close by and they either feel confident (or greedy enough) to try for a second down.
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Most matches usually run for 10 minutes, longer ones go for 15 minutes and in rare cases, can go to 20 minutes and over. Unless you REALLY want 5 minute matches then a surrender funciton isn't necessary.