Massquwatt
Massquwatt
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I think the most obvious buff would be to make him a 115% killer but at the same time it'd also be really bad for him. It sounds weird but if you nerf his power and give him a movement speed, yeah it makes him better and able to actually loop survivors but at the same time all you're doing is just downgrading his power into a mere hinderence more than anything else. Deathslinger, just like Huntress have a huge reliance on their powers which isn't a bad thing at all. I'd be willing to wager those are the reasons why people really like them after all with Deathslinger you're a man with a gun so of course you wanna shoot a nice giant hole into survivors. Nerfing his power in a way where it just adds more draws only gives him even less of a reason to use it and just turns him into a normal m1 killer, killing his indentity. Personally if people wanna go down the route of slowing down his aiming spam that's fine but I think they should look to buffing the lethality of his gun in turn. Like making the chain snapping being able to down survivors. You can balance Deathslingers weapon in a way that it'll have a huge risk in using it but it can have huge rewards in downing the player too.
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Decisive Strike has one thing that Pop doesn't which is when a survivor runs into a locker with DS active it basically gives them a massive 'bugger off' situation for the killer where they're faced with two options. Either take them out of the locker and eat the 5 second stun or basically let the survivor go and give up essentially giving them 60 seconds to do what they want. Paired with other perks like a primed inner strength and survivors can get what is basically quasi-invicibility. Regarding changes for Pop and DS these what I think are the best changes for it:
DS deactivates whenever the survivor goes into a locker. Nice and simple. Everything else can stay but get rid of the stupid locker plays because survivors shouldn't feel invicible in a locker just because they have DS active.
Shave 5% regression off PGTW and give it to the normal generator kick instead. Using the perk still has the same benefit (25%) regression however having the extra 5% on baseline generator kicks would be actually nice since current regular kicks are laughably ineffective in terms of generator regression.
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I'm curious to see what the numbers for missed punishment of the damned cooldowns will be however I honestly can't say these changes will make him more of a "skill based" killer just for the simple fact that Rites of Judgement has an extremely slow turn rate. You can't flick with it like other killers which is why you use it at pallets and windows most of the time because those where the only times you can reliably hit it. Those changes won't really change that except now he'll just have less oppurntunities to get hits with it? It's still got the 20% power drain on attack as well so you can't really spam it all that much either. The counterplay for these changes is just basically giving him less moments to use it effectively.
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I've always ran ruin but with undying now it lets me run ruin with confidence which is nice. Although I'd hardly call it braindead, tinkerer allows you to make more informed decisions when it goes off. Is it worth chasing survivors off that particular generator? etc. The build really doesn't do anything if you're just chasing one survivor for 4 minutes. Besides even if the combo got nerfed to hell everyone would just go back to using corrupt + pop again and I'd have a feeling you'd be complaining about that instead. Just think of the ruin/undying build as a spicy survivor fun time perk, means more chases and more fun games for you and the survivor! Everyone complains about the game being an m1 generator repair fest so this build let's the killer come to you now instead of you having to come to him for chases! Ready or not here they come!
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I wonder how well a low-priority queue would do in this game like Dota 2. Give players a grace limit for the day or something, say 2 free disconnects. If a player disconnects more than twice in a single day they get thrown into a low-priority queue where they get to play games with a bunch of other quitters for the day. Having the company of each other might teach some of them to not disconnect so liberally.
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@xEa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1629677#Comment_1629677
Why do they need safety? Thats a very odd question my friend. Because it is essential for the game. What pointless mess would it be without the option for survivors to be safe? Thats why people think Nurse Pyramid Head and Deathslinger are unfun to go against. Because there is little you can do as survivor, and i already wrote in detail why that is.
Well I mean this game is all about horror and the best horror games always make the player have this constant feeling of being "unsafe". In my personal experience survivor is most fun when you're feeling "unsafe" anyway. The constant pressure of having to complete generators, healing and helping teammates, rescuing them all the while you got this monstrous of a killer that's seemingly everywhere and anywhere at once. It's why I don't find Demogorgon particularly fun to go against. You can hear him across the map when he breaks pallets, you can hear him across the map when he misses an attack, you can hear him across the map when he teleports. You can hear him when he comes out of the teleport, you can hear his footsteps from 16 meters. I know where demogorgon is what he's doing at all times and because of that, I feel safe. That's not fun. That's boring. My own two cents but there's nothing fun about survivor if I'm looping the killer for 3 gens, gives up and does something else. I wanna feel the pressure, I wanna feel like I'm surviving, I wanna feel like that every single snap decision I make gives me precious seconds against this monstrous killer, I want that feeling of desperation as a survivor would in that scenario. Running around in circles occassionally dropping a pallet at a leisurely pace just doesn't feel like fun to me at all.
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In all honesty I'd be fine if they shaved 5% off pop and added it to regular gen kicks. Pop and Ruin are great because they reliably slow the game down. Kicking a generator without those perks does diddly squat to the gens. Infact they do so little that a survivor immediately tapping the generator will pretty much negate whatever progress is lost making you waste the 2 seconds it took to kick it in the first place. So reworking the normal kick into it being slightly strong or making the default progress regress a bit faster would be nice. But I think other perks like Surge and Overcharge should be looked at to make them more attractive choices as well. The basic attack requirement for it should be gone, there's no reason that it's to be needed and for overcharge, well I'm not sure what could be done to make it better.
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The only thing I would complain about right now is the new addons regarding hatch placement. I'm not sure why those are supposed to be a thing, granted the killer can see the offering too but it's kind of silly because it only encourages you to slug more to look for the person with the key because you know they'll be waiting for the hatch. At the very least those offerings should be changed into an ultra rare offering, not a common.
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As a few other people said all surge needs is to ditch the stupid basic attack requirement, infectious fright used to have it and it was a garbage perk because of it. Make Surge work on any attack and it might be a nice alternative to pop.
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The scoring system is pretty hilarious I gotta say. If the survivors have a far enough point lead then all they have to do is just flog generators and let themselves die on the hook. Infact if your team has the lead and you're on first hook stage, all you need to do is just wait out the entire 2 minutes and you've denied the killer 2 extra points. I don't wanna be harsh and trash the work that people put into this but the scoring system needs some serious revising.
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This is probably wishful thinking on my end but I hope they change some of his addons for the better, especially the purple ones because he really gets screwed over in that regard. Although it'll be most likely that they'll slap on an extra cooldown penalty for using rites of judgement, I don't really see them giving him any compensation for it.
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I've actually been seeing some interesting strats against PH, as somebody who plays against him a lot I'm seeing this trick where when a survivor throws down a pallet they'll immediately dead hard right after it. The time is take for my m2 to reach the survivor is enough time for them to throw down a pallet and dead hard completing avoiding the hit. It's pretty nasty too because I lose out on 3 seconds, there's a pallet in front of me and the survivor is in a stronger position because of it. You need to be reall creative with your mind games when it comes to going against PH which is nice because it keeps me on my toes, if you're being too predictable in your chases you're gonna get easily punished for it.
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They just need to take a look at his sound design and addons really. Rat Liver is his only addon worth running with both of his iridescent addons just straight up garbage. He only gets like what, 3 addons that have anything to do with his shred while everything else is with his portals. And his sound needs overhauls, I get the idea that BHVR wanted to give solo survivors more information in regards to what he's doing but you can literally hear demogoron break pallets across the map. That's just taking it too far really. I know there's this crusade going on right about how there's killer with too little counterplay but demogorgon has way, way too much. He's the most telegraphed killer in the game and it really hurts him.
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A long time ago infectious freight only used to work with basic attacks and it was garbage until they got rid of the requirement. Having surge activate on any attack wouldn't be too overpowered or anything since the perk heavily requires multiple generators within 32m to be actually affected which is very few scenarios to begin with since most maps have their generators spaced out a lot and most survivors will attempt to run you away from generators too.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1565581#Comment_1565581
The TR argument is valid. Think about it - if you're on Blood Lodge, yeah, you'll see anyone coming from a mile away. Stealth counts for nothing. If you're just repairing the average gen inside a jungle gym, though, you can't see much outside of the jungle gym. With a 16m TR, a killer running right at the gen is going to be within swinging distance in about three seconds. There is no time to prep. All you can do is guess which side of the jungle gym he's most likely going to approach from and scramble as best you can.
I'm going to be honest - I don't really care about lore or identity so long as the killer is a pain in the ass to play against. I'm at the point with Deathslinger and Legion where I would legitimately rather them be unceremoniously removed the roster than remain in their current state. If we can change their powers to be fun to play as and fun to play against, awesome, even if it ends up not being that unique. We already have killers with quite a bit of overlap in their powers that still somehow feel like they have their own niche. Ghost Face and Michael, for example. Pyramid Head will be in this bucket soon too, but he's at least new enough that I've had less time to build up resentment lol
There are other killers on the roster who need balance changes and QoL updates, but these are the only ones that have irritatingly low counterplay. Spirit could be up there too, but she's vulnerable to perks in ways that PH really isn't. Iron Will, Quick & Quiet, etc. can do wonders. For players close to the skill ceiling, yeah, those sorts of things won't really stop them, and that's a big reason why she needs work. For most Spirits though, even in red rank, those are powerful counters and can let you frequently prolong and even survive chases.
Your TR scenario is really no more different than any other stealth killer. Myer's breathing is 8m, wraith has to uncloak first, pig has to stand up before hitting you or letting out a very loud audible queue to do her dash and ghostface can straight up smack you without having to do anything. If you're having that much issue with Deathslinger approaching around corners you're going to seriously have hard times against other stealth killers. Spine chill will help you out a lot there otherwise you're just going to have to keep your wits about you while repairing. You really haven't provided any solid arguments to why these killers should have their powers completely gutted in favour of turning them into standard m1 killers. "Being less boring" is a pretty lame argument to have when what's annoying to go against. I don't think Deathlsinger, Pyramid Head or Spirit are annoying to go against, are they harder to loop? Sure but I don't think that makes them annoying. You wanna know what's annoying though? Skillcheck Doctor. He's genuinely annoying because he can trip up players just by merely existing and in maps like the game it's almost impossible to stay out of his terror radius. I'd consider that annoying and oppressive because he doesn't even have to do anything to hamper your progress and put you in bad positions. Spirit has to mindgame and listen, Deathsligner and PH still have to at least aim their powers for it to actually do anything. Not every killers needs to be looped traditionally like Wraith or Trapper.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1565249#Comment_1565249
The one trouble with all this is Monitor. A 16m TR and an 18m chain means that you're going to be starting chases when he's very close to you. If you're not repairing a gen right next to a strong pallet you're very likely to take a quick hit. You just can't really effectively mindgame against a killer that can zone. If he raises his gun and the survivor dodges, he keeps walking forward and M1s. If he raises his gun and the survivor doesn't dodge, he shoots. If you had more of a warning that he was nearby, sure, you could try to stealth him, or try to scratch mark juke or something. None of that is possible if he's already very close to you.
Speaking of Huntress, BHVR should take some serious cues from her for Deathslinger. Huntress has a 40m lullaby to alert survivors she's in the area. She has to walk at 77% speed for about three seconds in order to fully charge a hatchet. She makes a very clear noise notification when raising a hatchet, throwing a hatchet, and when the hatchet is fully charged. She cannot instantly raise and put away a hatchet, and she cannot instantly attack after putting away a hatchet - there's a short cooldown. She cannot reload on the fly and must instead find a locker. So, Huntress cannot zone, she can't sneak up on survivors unless they're not paying attention, she has to slow down and telegraph her intentions when she's preparing to use her power, etc. All of this means that survivors have a wealth of counterplay options against her. Deathslinger can zone, he can sneak up on survivors even when they are paying attention, he can quickscope a survivor and fire a projectile at the same speed as a max-charge hatchet in .65 seconds. And, to boot, he deep wounds you when he hits you with his power, meaning that you now need to chase through Deep Wound VFX if you take a hit.
Huntress is substantially stronger strictly because she can deal damage very quickly, and from longer range if the killer's good. Deathslinger has to reel a survivor in and reload before his power is ready again. Huntress can just wing hatchets right and left at a few different survivors. That's enough to make her a much better killer than him. Still, he's stronger in the 1v1 than she is and is way more annoying due to limited counterplay.
I would be thrilled to see him get a 115%/32m TR change, at the expense of a Huntress-style charge up time for his projectile and slower ADS times. That'd make him less unique, but way less annoying to play against.
I don't particularly buy the terror radius argument. He can get a short radius with M&A but he's not a stealth killer. He's extremely tall and doesn't ain undetectable from any of his perks or addons. He has addons that reduce his terror radius while aiming but at the cost of slowing him down even more. If Deathslinger is in the position where he can harpoon you from 18 meters away then you are in the position of seeing him, he cannot curve his shots or shoot through walls unless he specifically lines them up through extremely tiny holes. He should be treated like most stealth killers in the same vein that if you aren't paying attention to your surroundings they will most likely get the first hit off and like most stealth killers spine chill is a pretty strong counter against them and a fairly popular perk as well.
Huntress and Deathslinger are both different killers with different powers that do very different things. It isn't fair to compare both of them like that as Huntress's ranged capabilities are far more lethal than Deathslingers. Deathslinger's redeemer is a tool that's used to forcefully bring survivors out of position and close to him. Because of how it works there will be times that you need to make snap decisions and fire at survivors immediately, either to get them at a window or to prevent them from getting any favourable positions really. Giving him huntress style changes while making him 115%/32m would be a huge disservice and would lead him down the road of Legion's rework making him nothing more than a shadow of his former self with no identity of any sort.
However if you and many others still insist on giving him Huntress style penalties and reworks then I propose my own compensation for the changes: Make his speargun leathal, give it the ability to down survivors on chain snaps. You can keep the 32m TR, the aiming penalties and the 110% but giving his power proper leathality to it will still give good incentives for deathslingers to use it. Piling on penalties for using his power without compensation will just make using his power more of a hinderence than anything else. Turning him into a standard 115%/32m m1 killer will kill his indentity completely.
It's why I'm also against turning his speargun into a form of mobility, we've already got enough mobility killers out there and we don't need more of them and frankly, Caleb is a cowboy with a bum leg who hunts outlaws with a speargun. He's a hunter and that power suits him perfectly. Making his speargun into a mobility tool is extremely silly and doesn't make sense for his character. He's not spiderman, he doesn't use his gun to swing around water towers kicking bad guys. He shoots them right in the gut with a big ass spear and hauls them off to prision like the cruel bastard he is.
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Deathslinger is a ranged killer, just like huntress his power lies within his gun. People keep suggesting they up him to 115% 32m and that comes at the cost of severely downgrading his gun. Those changes effectively turn him from a ranged killer into a regular m1 killer with his gun acting as a secondary. Please stop that, Deathslinger has very defined strengths and weaknesses as a killer. His chase doesn't make him oppressive or impossible to beat, it just requires a very, very different mindset when going up against him and playing as him. Mindgaming as survivor is just as important as mind gaming as killer, if you're predictable in your chases he's going to easily catch you, that's his strength. Deathslinger is a slow, ranged killer who brings the survivors to him with him with his power and that's what makes him, him. Please stop trying to change him into something he's not, an m1 killer with mobility powers.
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@Xbob42 said:
No one wants Deathslinger "nerfed" because he's not a strong killer to begin with. They want more ways to actually interact with Deathslinger outside of he holds M2 for .2 seconds and he's either good, so he'll hit you 99% of the time, or he sucks so you might get the occasional miss. Outside of throwing pallets early there's not much actual gameplay for the survivors when Deathslinger is around, and there's barely any for the Deathslinger since it's so easy to aim and shoot.
I've been saying he should be able to shoot walls and other objects and basically grappling hook himself around the maps. That'd be WAY cooler and make him mobile.
Why does he have to be mobile? Not every killer needs their ability to be mobility. We already have Billy, Oni, Spirit, Freddy and Blight for mobility killers now. There's no need to turn Deathslinger into cowboy spiderman with his redeemer. A lot of Deathslinger's power comes from the power itself and that's just fine. That'd be like turning Huntress's hatchets into a mobility skill, what's the point?
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You can call me salty or sour for this but from the time that I've spent reading over threads and watching videos I've come under the impression that a "fun" killer seems to be one that can loop only with m1 and their power being secondary to a chase at best and serving primarily as a movement tool around the map. I'm not a fan of this mentality because it implies that all killers should be designed with the idea that every killer should be looped traditionally which is dumb. Different killers have different strengths and weaknesses. Clown, Deathslinger and Pyramid have strong chase potentional but suffer with map pressure. Oni, Blight and Hillbilly have great map mobility but are still m1 killers so they rely more on mindgames but most importantly each killer has it's own set of mindgames to them. Looping a PH effectively and looping an Oni effectively require very different skillsets and mindsets.
I've played Blight and I think he's a lot of fun for he is and hope that tweaks to his hitbox will fix some of his more glaring problems but I really hate this idea that all killers need to be looped the same way. A lot of survivors say how traditional looping is the most "fun" but it shouldn't be the only way of looping them. Different powers means different ways to play for BOTH SIDES.
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I wouldn't call Dead Hard overpowered but it's insanely annoying at times, especially when multiple use it. If you're the killer you can mindgame somebody really well around loops but if they pop off the Dead Hard then your nice mind game is effectively made redundant because they're at the pallet now and throw it down to extend the chase longer. Both Dead Hard and Sprint Burst are what I call "mistake erasers" when you used effectively. Screwed up your mind game against the killer? No problem just dead hard to a pallet and it's like you never made any mistakes. Survivor caught out in a dead zone like an idiot? Working on an unsafe generator? No problem just sprint burst to the nearest loop and you're all good. Again, they're not overpowered just incredibly annoying to deal with because you have to assume everyone's using it and more often than not, mutliple people are using it.
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@Charslamedher said:
Don't you understand that it doesn't make sense to make my perks mean nothing when i have no clue as to what killer i'll be facing. Make the cages correlate to his mori ability, not a hook stage that wasn't actually a hook stage.
Why would you want the cages changed to be that? If the cages only counted towards his mini mori then you're effectively giving survivors 6 lives. There'd be absolutely no reason to cage anyone if they were changed to work like that. Torment goes away when you get caged or if you rescue another caged survivor and most survivors tend to avoid the trails like the plague anyway. Changing it like that would just create a lot of unecessary work for PH. If I've hooked somebody twice in your proposed changes why would ever want to cage them for the first time? It won't kill them and I've just effectively given them another chance to survive and escape.
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There's nothing stopping you from disconnecting anyway. Just eat the 5 minute penalty and go do something else until the next game. If you're wracking up 30 minute+ penalties then you should probably consider that you're the problem and not the killers. Alternatively just suicide on the hook. It's better to keep the penalties because the brief time that it was gone I was getting lots of dc's in my game which just ruin it for everyone else.
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I don't really see how either Deathslinger or Pyramid Head are boring to go against. They're both killers who are reliant on their powers to win chases, requiring different kinds of strategies to go against, they aren't traditional M1 killers and that's okay. They both have their own strengths and weaknesses and have their own niche they fill. I don't think either of them are really boring to go against either and only PH becomes a real problem if he's running I'm all ears. My advice to against PH is to abuse the hell out of terrain differences whenever you can and to be unpredictable during chases. I don't think either of them need any particular changes to them either and all the changes like cooldowns/slowdowns from using their abilities would already cripple whatever chase potentional they have. Especially the idea to change Deathslinger to a 32m/115% killer, it'd completely neuter him and just turn him into a boring M1 killer like Legion.
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As a PH main I'd love to have hook perks work with cages but in the end it'd still make BT and DS useless against them. You'd just be giving PH a serious amount of snowball potentional in the game. Caging somebody would just be free Devour Hope, Make your Choice, Huntress Lullaby stacks among other perks. Hell you could cage somebody, break their generator with Pop goes the Weasel and start heading across the map with no time lost. By the time PH gets there he can just easily slap down the rescuer with absolutely no down time at all. I understand that getting slapped off the cage only to get hooked sucks but wanting all hook perks to work with cages is a monkey paw, there'd be no need to tunnel people off cages anymore because he'll have the power to annihilate your teammates instead while you're off licking your wounds. Again I'd love the changes but you better be careful for what you wish for.