LobAutumny
LobAutumny
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This map has some of the strongest loops in the game. Against some killers, the house that has two windows on the side is very nearly an infinite. Aside from that, house of pain is still pretty strong and most of the other houses can spawn with extremely nasty windows that lead to obscenely long loops.
Outside of this, the map is way too big (mostly due to the fact that the street feels less like a suburban neighborhood road than a 10-lane highway), generators tend to be either way too easy to defend or way too difficult to reach, and it's extremely easy to turn the huge expanse outside of the houses into a massive deadzone with no resources for the survs to use.
Also, for some reason, it always feels like when you pick someone up, there's a maximum of 2 hooks you can reach unless you're running Agi or something. And that sucks if you keep downing people in the same general area trying to contest a generator, because eventually, you run out of those two hooks and can no longer hook the survivors.
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Main building needs less pallets and breakable walls and then the map would be fine.
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Pantry and Pale Rose suffer from a lot of similar issues, so I'm gonna copy-paste the first part of my thoughts in both threads.
The middles of these maps are way too open and filled with trash tiles, while the edges of the map have all of the playable tiles, including the dreaded pog log (I would consider the pog log to singlehandedly be one of Swamp's larger problems, btw). This means that gens around the edges of the map tend to be pretty safe while gens around the middle of the map tend to be very unsafe. And that encourages the killer to play around boring 3-gens.
Docks can be a little bit strong, but they can feel really weak just as often, and I don't think they're much of an issue. However, I can say that it should not be possible for 2 gens to spawn on top of the same dock. I've seen that happen multiple times and it's horrible.
In addition to this, Swamp is ugly as sin, being one of the only old realms in the game (or maybe the only one? I've lost track, come to think of it) that still has not received a visual overhaul.
Also, the fact that objects and normal tiles can spawn so close to the walls of these maps creates a number of weird issues with stuff like hook generation and finding hatch.
For thoughts about Pale Rose in particular:
Main building is alright. It has some pretty unique gameplay dynamics, and I don't think it's disproportionately strong or weak.
The smaller boat is also pretty neat, though I wouldn't mind if the front part were made a bit roomier, as it's pretty common to be repairing it with someone else, have the killer start approaching, and then lose a bunch of time that would've been spent running because you and the other survivor were accidentally bodyblocking each other.
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Pantry and Pale Rose suffer from a lot of similar issues, so I'm gonna copy-paste the first part of my thoughts in both threads.
The middles of these maps are way too open and filled with trash tiles, while the edges of the map have all of the playable tiles, including the dreaded pog log (I would consider the pog log to singlehandedly be one of Swamp's larger problems, btw). This means that gens around the edges of the map tend to be pretty safe while gens around the middle of the map tend to be very unsafe. And that encourages the killer to play around boring 3-gens.
Docks can be a little bit strong, but they can feel really weak just as often, and I don't think they're much of an issue. However, I can say that it should not be possible for 2 gens to spawn on top of the same dock. I've seen that happen multiple times and it's horrible.
In addition to this, Swamp is ugly as sin, being one of the only old realms in the game (or maybe the only one? I've lost track, come to think of it) that still has not received a visual overhaul.
Also, the fact that objects and normal tiles can spawn so close to the walls of these maps creates a number of weird issues with stuff like hook generation and finding hatch.
For thoughts that are unique to Grim Pantry:
The main building is downright labyrinthian in its construction, and even after thousands of hours of gameplay, I have still never managed to internalize its layout. It's also just an unreasonably powerful building, with several extremely strong windows and a couple of pretty good pallets, not to mention how much potential it has if you're running Balanced Landing.
The secondary building off to the side is cool, though. I like it a lot.
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Badham is a strong contender for the worst map in the game. It's huge, almost every gen is tucked away behind some kind of obnoxious line-of-sight blocker that requires you to get within audio range just to tell if people are working on it or not, there are 4 buildings that make for very strong, reusable tiles, the area outside of those buildings is a barren wasteland once the ambulance pallets are broken...
If you down someone in the boiler room and basement isn't there, then you need to make main building even stronger by breaking one of the walls just to be able to reach a hook. And god forbid a sabo squad with Exponential or Buckle Up + For the People or whatever puts up a Pied Piper and a Bloodied Blueprint.
Also, there are hypothetically five variants of the map and I genuinely could not tell you the differences between any of them, and I have 2,000 hours in the game plus thousands more hours watching other people play it, wiki-diving, talking/writing about it, dissecting its design, etc.
I don't even like playing this map as survivor. Every chase is just a flowchart based on which gen I was working on when the killer found me. It's boring. There are no interesting decisions to make because all of the gameplay centers around a series of buildings that only really have one way to play them and very little mindgame potential.
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Family Residence is probably one of my favorite maps in the game. Only major issue I have is that it feels a little too big right now.
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Sanctum is a map that's really easy to run a 3-gen on. If you just ignore one half of the map as killer, it's quite easy to just turn the other half into a deadzone and win based on that. I think the map feels pretty good to play on both sides if the killer isn't doing that, though. The tiles are fun and the main building is weird and interesting. The issue mostly just boils down to the fact that the map is entirely bisected.
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Ormond is a map that I think feels mostly-balanced, but also feels kind of bad to play on. In general, I find that a good 90% of my matches on the map boil down to whether or not the main building is one of the first gens done. It's kind of like RPD in that if the survivors break the 3-gen early, the map is survivor-sided, but if they don't, the map is killer-sided.
Naturally, this promotes this sort of boring, hyper-defensive gameplay where if the killer and survivors are both smart and understand the map well, a majority of the match happens in the middle of the map where there are only a couple decent tiles, those being whatever the hell that big vehicle is and the main building. But even then, the parts of main building that are actually strong are largely inaccessible from its generator if you aren't pre-running at the first sign of the terror radius (or running Sprint Burst, I suppose).
All it takes is a couple broken pallets for the entire middle of the map to be a huge deadzone where not much gameplay other than holding W can occur, and if the killer manages to get a 3-gen within that huge deadzone, the match tends to get very boring for both sides very quickly. If the survivors start running super early, they make it to strong tiles and the killer drops chase, and gens take forever as a result. If survs stick to gens longer to speed the match up, they go down super quickly because there's no tiles for them to make it to.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2959998#Comment_2959998
"Devs have actually mentioned on the forums that they're not just looking at the perks themselves, but also why they're meta and making adjustments to the game itself accordingly."
They referenced understanding why they're ran, not that they will be making adjustments to the game itself.
@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2956247#Comment_2956247
I can't go into details just yet, but we are taking why these perks are meta into consideration before making any changes. If there's a root problem that needs to be addressed, we're aiming to look into it at the same time.
If this doesn't imply that they're making adjustments to the game itself, I don't know what it is implying, especially because the language of "looking into a root problem" means there are things they feel need to be fixed. Because, y'know, they wouldn't be calling them problems otherwise.
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@Blueberry said:
Unless they actually change the base game (which they didn't mention anything about) in order to slow gens down the meta on killer will always be gen slow down perks. If anything gutting the current gen slow down perks will also just make killers tunnel even more.
Without actual core game changes this isn't going to change much.
Maps need to be shrunk and loops need to be weakened. Almost every single loop in the game should be mind gameable and that currently isn't the case, not even close. Maps are currently designed in a way that 90% of the killer roster cannot even remotely hope to maintain map pressure regardless of how good they are.
Devs have actually mentioned on the forums that they're not just looking at the perks themselves, but also why they're meta and making adjustments to the game itself accordingly. We have no idea what they're going to be changing or how big those changes will be, though. Could be underwhelming, could be a full rework to core systems. We'll just have to wait and see.
I'm assuming map design isn't going to change all that much, because it's something they've always been bad at and it would likely delay the update by a massive amount of time (unless they've been working on a largescale map design overhaul for the last year and that's why Realm Beyond slowed down to a crawl, but there's no evidence to suggest this is the case and it's more likely that the reason for that is just RPD's many technical issues putting things on hold), but slowing gens down by default is a definite possibility. I dunno, like I said, we'll just have to wait and see. No matter what happens, it should be interesting, at the very least.
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@Marcavecunc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2957192#Comment_2957192
For the "maxed out but not p3" part, they did mention they would calculate how many perks you got and give you a sorta-prestige reward since you did go through the trouble of getting all those perks. I'd have to find the exact moment in the stream or the part of the transcript but I can't be bothered.
Yeah, I'm just wondering if those characters will get whatever the reward is for having prestige before the new system lands. Like, I have Kate, Feng, and Yui maxed out but none of them are prestige. If the update lands and they're all given prestige 3 (or more), will I get the reward as though I got prestige on them before the update landed? Would I be wasting my time getting them to prestige 3 before the update? Should I just go tunnel down P3 on the other survivors instead? If the devs end up adding legacy 2.0, I don't wanna wind up missing out on it on the characters I play the most because of a miscommunication.
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Yeah, I really wish we got more specific details on what's going to happen with the exclusive reward for people who have characters maxed out but not at P3. I don't want to lose all my items and BP offerings on my maxed out characters if I'm gonna be getting the rewards anyways. A quick response from the devs on this would be greatly appreciated, but I assume they're going to remain silent on this until the PTB with the new prestige system drops.
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The change from 75% to 50% is not as big as you might think. Here's a breakdown of each speed for both healing others and healing yourself:
Healing others:
- Default: 16 seconds
- +100% speed: 8 seconds
- +75% speed: 9.14 seconds
- +50% speed: 10.67 seconds
Healing self:
- Default: 32 seconds
- +100% speed: 16 seconds
- +75% speed: 18.29 seconds
- +50% speed: 21.33 seconds
As you can see, this is only tacking on an additional 2.67 seconds to healing others compared to the original release version of Circle of Healing, and tacking on an additional 5.33 seconds for self-healing in the area. I don't think this is really going to make that much of a difference. The perk will still be just as powerful for the most part, it's just that less people will be running it because they perceive the 50% as being significantly worse than it actually is.
Like, yeah, sure, that extra 5 seconds of self-healing time can definitely make a difference and it all adds up over the course of a match, but Circle of Healing is quite overtuned as it stands. It is currently the best healing perk in the game by a massive margin and will remain the best healing perk in the game when the midchapter hits. The only real way for it to lose its place as the best healing perk in the game would be if BHVR outright removed the self-healing part from it entirely.
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@Yatol said:
BHVR are actually planning to address it
Yeah, just like how they've been planning on addressing everything else about the game's meta and keep saying they'll eventually do things. But when do they ever actually do what they say they're planning on? How often do they actually make good on things they claim they want to do? When they host a Q&A, all the answers to "are you still going to do <thing they talked about wanting to do>?" or similar questions are always either "no," "I don't know," or "maybe." There's never any definitive evidence of BHVR actually working on stuff like this.
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I firmly believe that most instances of people complaining about MMR are just a placebo effect. What's actually going on is that you've all realized how terrible and boring this game's meta is (and has been for several years at this point), but are blaming the wrong thing. I don't believe whatsoever that MMR has actually made any tangible difference to the game for most players. Remember: If you're losing a lot, you aren't actually at high MMR.
It also hasn't actually caused people to play sweatier. Once again, that's just a placebo effect. People have always been this sweaty. If anything, having matchmaking be based on rank, which is a visible thing, made people want wins more because it was (to some small extent, at least) impressive to be rank 1. But now we have MMR, which is an invisible system that you can't actually feel or brag about, so theoretically that should mean people are playing less sweaty, if anything. Though realistically, like I said, it hasn't really made much of a difference.
Now, as for the question of whether MMR has made the game worse: Yes, but not for veteran players like everyone keeps insisting. It makes the game worse for new killers in particular because you'll have killers with double-digit hours in the game going up against some several-thousand-hour god of a survivor who is at low MMR because they don't care about escaping and just want to get chased and do things that are fun instead of trying to play optimally and get out through the gate every time, and those sorts of matches can put newer players off from playing the game. At least when matchmaking was based on rank, that sort of thing wasn't nearly as common as it currently is.
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Skill issue.
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There's never really a reason not to 99 the doors if you can't guarantee the safety of all survivors. Opening the doors prematurely puts a timer on the team, which can lead to a lot of situations where 1 or more survivors need to be abandoned by the rest of the team because there isn't enough time to reset so 2 people can dive a hook to get a save without just trading.
Sure, there are situations here and there where not opening a door causes someone to die when they would've gotten out if the door was open, but that's usually just a matter of poor team coordination, or the person who died being the last surv left on their team. Now, I assume the "poor team coordination" part is why you're talking about this being a problem in solo-queue in particular, but honestly, it's not that hard to coordinate getting out with the gates 99'd without direct communication if everyone is playing somewhat smart. All it requires is someone on the team having the gamesense to bodyblock for the injured person, and/or someone else having the gamesense to realize "oh, everyone should be running to gates now, I should open one of them."
I dunno, overall, I feel like the situations you described are about as common as situations where people die from timer constraints (or just getting abandoned immediately) when the doors are immediately opened, adjusting for the frequency of doors being opened vs. doors being 99'd. It really just comes down to how smart the people you get matched with are, which is always the problem with anything other than playing in 4-stacks.
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Ultimately, the answer is yes, but you're asking the wrong question. You see, anyone running any build on any character will, if they're half-decent, eventually get to rank 1. Rank pretty much always trends upwards over time. Anyone who knows this game will tell you that rank is not, by any metric, a measure of skill, but rather a measure of how much you've played over the last few months. Red ranks are people who are very active. Brown/yellow/green ranks are usually new to the game or just came back after a couple months. Purple ranks are just people on the road to being red ranks.
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I think it's potentially a good idea to not issue DC penalties if someone else DCs within the first minute or two of a match, as matches that start like that are usually a landslide victory for the killer. Either that, or give a really big bloodpoint bonus to survivors when that happens so their time doesn't feel wasted.
As for stuff like spawning in unable to move, that's not the fault of there being DC penalties, that's the fault of the game being buggy.
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I would recommend Lithe over Balanced Landing. BL is situational at best, since a lot of maps have 1-2 areas where you can actually use it and Shelter Woods can spawn without a hill, which leaves a single place to use it. There's also Dead Hard, which isn't necessarily the most consistent thing, but it's a very strong perk if you know how to use it.
Kindred is a perfect choice.
Iron Will is very powerful, though for solo queue you may want to bring BT to prevent randoms from throwing themselves into the killer's arms off hook and depriving you of your safe unhook points, or DS to prevent getting farmed.
Inner Strength is a good enough idea because you can't count on randoms to heal you, though really, I personally opt for Bond to find people easier and it also helps you get information on where people are being chased and if you're about to get sandbagged. For fast self-healing, people really sleep on the medkit/Botany combo, though this does require bringing in an item.
Other good solo-queue perks include We'll Make It, Alert, Spine Chill, Desperate Measures, Empathy, and Small Game.
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The killer was justified in being annoyed, though it absolutely isn't BM, especially if the killer in question has good ears. Really, when I play killer, I want people to use their flashlights at pallets because it means they aren't using them for rescues.
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I'm not sure how much of this has already been said, but I'm just going to go through every benefit I can think of in one concise list:
First of all, you have the two most basic things that all killers can use the basement for: Predictability and resource management. Basically, since there's only one way in or out and it takes a while to enter or leave, it's significantly easier to catch people running away from it, especially if you have a movement ability. It becomes even easier once you've played long enough that you sort of learn a sixth sense for when survivors are about to be unhooked. Beyond this, if someone dies in the basement, a hook isn't getting completely removed from play. Sometimes, this actually makes the difference between a 3K and a 4K.
Now, I'm going to make a bullet-point list of every killer who can get some form of unique benefit from basement:
- Trapper/Hag: You can make it take even longer for survivors to safely unhook people in the basement and then safely get out, often putting survivors in a lose/lose situation where they're either alerting you to their location or giving you enough time to see someone got unhooked down there and just walk over and be near two people.
- Billy: If you catch someone in the stairway, they're a goner.
- Nurse: You don't need to use the stairs. If you know where to do it, you can just teleport directly down into the basement from above.
- Myers: If you have T3 99'd, you can get the survivors into a really bad position by popping it when two people are right next to you.
- Doc: People being grouped up is always good for Doc. If you have static blast ready and you got to the basement entrance a little too late, you can pretty much guarantee two people are still in your terror radius.
- Huntress: If you can get to the point where you're looking at someone in the stairway, they're basically dead. There's not really much they can do in such a situation.
- Bubba: Do I even need to explain this one? It's Bubba. He was practically made for the basement.
- Clown: If you put smoke in the stairway, there's really no way for the survivors to avoid it other than waiting it out.
- Legion: Legion likes when people are near each other. Basement makes people near each other for longer.
- Plague: If neither person in basement was infected, they're probably both broken now. And if you have Corrupt Purge, it's basically the same situation as Huntress but even worse for the survivors.
- Demogorgon: You can put a portal very close to basement and if someone gets saved when you're close enough to another portal, they're in for a bad time.
- Oni: Like Billy, but with the limitation of having a full meter just like Myers.
- Pyramid Head: Pretty much the same logic as Hag, though not nearly as strong. You can make a wall around the basement entrance that survivors need to crouch over if they don't want to reveal their location, which gives you time. And, of course, if you can get two people at once with your shockwave attack, that's always pretty poggers.
- Twins: You can deploy Victor near the basement to detect survivors going in for the rescue. If you're a demon, you can also use the combination of Victor and Charlotte to fully bodyblock the stairway.
And just to cover all my bases, here's why I didn't mention other killers:
- Wraith: While Wraith can get to basement decently quickly, he doesn't really have anything that he can use to cash in on a basement hook aside from the convenience of having a better idea of where people are. It's not a bad idea to hook people in basement as him, but he's pretty weak as a basement killer.
- Fredwardo: Getting to basement quickly depends on whether gens have been completed near it or not. At most, one of the two people in basement will be asleep, meaning your snares will only work on one person. And they're likely to specifically only work when they're going in for the save, which is the less important time. It'll tell you when someone is going in for the save unless they just woke up. Ultimately, it's just not reliable enough for me to recommend as a strat. Too many moving parts that could easily misalign.
- Pig: Between having no movement and no pressure to groups of survivors, basement might as well be just another hook location.
- Spirit: The joke here is that you're gonna 4K anyways so it just doesn't matter.
- Ghostie: While I guess you could try to use the basement for some easy stalking, I doubt it'd work unless you already had the person going to the rescue 99'd because that stairway is just one massive sightline.
- Deathslinger: You can hit someone once, and then what?
- Blight: Pretty much the only thing basement has going for Blight is just the fact that Blight has crazy movement and can get across the map, like, instantly.
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@Airless said:
I don't understand why so many people think swf are a great challange. It's usually just a bunch of friends playing together, and for some reason they deserve to be moried and camped?
Just play the game normally, they aren't that much of a threat.
People get up in arms about SWF because they have a bad match here and there against a 4-stack bringing stuff like OoO and BNPs and sending them to Haddonfield and all that, and those bad matches stick in their minds more than the normal matches where they probably don't even realize they're playing against SWFs. So when they think about "how a SWF lobby plays," they think of tightly-coordinated players sending them to an awful map and absolutely destroying them.
Really, my personal advice for how to deal with SWFs is to just do your best and accept that sometimes, you're just gonna have a bad match. Don't let it get you down. If people are sending you to Haddonfield and using all the strongest perks and items and making you look like a chump, don't sweat it. It happens, and it's not the end of the world. If you're worried that someone's gonna send you to a bad map, you can always try to put up a different map offering or a sacrificial ward.
Unfortunately, coordinated SWFs can sometimes be near-impossible to beat, if you're playing off-meta or you aren't playing a high-tier killer. That said, if you're making the decision to play things you know are weak, you probably don't mind losing to good survivors anyways.
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In regards to the discourse surrounding the Binding of Kin bugs, here's my two cents:
Yes, it's very easy to wind up with a ton of bugs when you're doing things like making a new character in a game that's this unique or completely reworking several maps from more or less the ground up while keeping their basic framework around. These bugs existing isn't what the issue is. The issue is that they literally have public testing servers that exist for the express purpose of finding bugs and oversights and massive balance issues before new content hits live servers.
The Binding of Kin PTB launched a couple weeks ago, and several bugs were found. Most of the perks didn't work properly, there were all sorts of issues with totem locations in the new maps, the Twins were kind of buggy, and the build seemed very unstable overall. Then they said they'd fix the bugs, but they never did a second PTB build because the first PTB was literally a couple weeks before the chapter was set to release, and they knew that everything would get thrown off if they pushed the release of the new chapter back.
So what did they do? They pushed a version of the game to live servers that was even buggier than the beta version of the same exact update. Legitimately, it would've been better if they just put the PTB onto live servers.
Now, I don't think this was out of them being utterly incompetent or anything. It's more likely that they were scrambling to hit a deadline that they knew they had to hit or there would be hell to pay. This finally brings me to the point I want to make, out of all this: I believe BHVR is trying to juggle too many things at once. Here is a list of things they want to do all at the same time:
- Create new survivors and killers every 3 months, and make 3 new perks for each character
- Create new maps
- Completely rework old maps to bring them up to snuff
- Create new cosmetics
- Create new rifts
- Create new tomes
- Make good seasonal events
- Attempt to balance a combined total of 22 killers, 164 perks, and somewhere around 440 addons (plus one killer, six perks, and 20 addons with every new chapter)
- Tweak killers who feel outdated or out of tune, sometimes to the point of giving them completely new powers
- Fix the hundreds of bugs the game has, plus the thousands of new ones that crop up as they fix the old ones and make more content
- Optimize the game
You can see why things are kind of perpetually a mess in this game. Personally, I think the healthiest thing for DbD would be to take some time to slow down on the creation of new content and just focus purely on getting the current content under control. It feels like the game is growing faster than they can keep up with, and I'm sure hiring more people to work for them would only help so much. There's too much for them to keep track of all at once, and they can only get around to making big changes to a couple of killers and a handful of perks every few months during the mid-chapters. This doesn't feel sustainable.
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When people talk about M1 killers, they don't mean "someone who can only M1," though even then there's still Wraith. What people mean by "M1 killer" is a killer whose power either isn't something you're gonna be using during every chase (Myers or Oni, for example), isn't very useful to use during chases (Wraith, Pig), or serves as an accessory to your M1 (Clown, Freddy). What these killers all have in common is that they all rely on the same basic means of dealing damage (at least, for the most part. Killers in the first category I mentioned could be seen as M2 killers when they actually are using their powers, though they still spend most of the time during a match as M1 killers).
It's a classification that's most useful when talking about perks. For example, STBFL is great for M1 killers, but not for someone like Billy, Huntress, Nurse, etc. It's also useful when talking about how to go about chases, as killers that don't fall into the category of "M1 killer" typically chase in very different ways from M1 killers, who all chase in relatively similar ways. If you're an M1 killer, you usually have some way to apply pressure to loops or shorten them to some extent, but your goal is still to get the survivor into lunge range as quickly as possible.
Compare this to someone like Huntress, Billy, Nurse, etc. and you'll see why this categorization exists. Compared to these other "M2 killers," M1 killers have relatively similar behavior during chases and benefit from relatively similar perks.
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@Vetrathene said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1795198#Comment_1795198
It also didn’t contain looping, DS, unbreakable, dead hard and a slew of other things. While on most points I agree the game is in a better place, it’s still in a bad place Overall in my opinion. Balance is still nowhere near close. Bugs are rampant; honestly the entire game could desperately use a rebuild. And while the deve are communicative, it often feels like they don’t answer the questions that really need to be, or if they do it is wish-washy, vague, or an outright lie. There positives; but I wanted to point out we still need to strive to improve the game; for everyone involved, not just one side or the other; as well as holding the devs to task to make those changes.
It literally did always contain looping. Infinites were a massive problem back in ye olden days, when the devs hadn't quite realized how powerful looping could be. DS came from the second major content update in the game and was much stronger back then than it is now. Unbreakable and Dead Hard came from the 4th and 6th major content updates, when most of the things I mentioned were still there. The survivor meta hasn't changed much since David came out, and even then, that was trading one meta exhaustion perk for another.
@Icey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1795198#Comment_1795198
Okay, the old BNP's were literally a joke. If 4 survivors brought them (which ive had happen), they would win the game in under 90 seconds.
Right now, in comparison to the launch state of DBD, they are starting to actually balance DBD, but its still massively survivor sided and biased.
All the things you mention rely on the survivors being potatoes and not try-harding for victory. I actually LOVE challenges but i hate dumb bird-brained design choices that make capitalizing on survivor mistakes the only means of victory.
The biggest issue by far is the discrepancy between SWF and Non-SWF teams. The devs essentially implemented SWF in the name of profits and haven't touched it since.
Kinda like how Old BNP's broke the game and weren't touched for a while, its the same issue with SWF teams having a massive advantage at no down-side.
The devs just haven't literally touched on this massive issue after their boneheaded decision to implement a new game-breaking mode.
You say you love a challenge, but you also say that you don't want to capitalize on someone's mistakes to achieve victory. Capitalizing on your opponent's mistakes is how you win in literally any competitive game that's well-designed. If your opponent is playing flawlessly and you aren't, then of course you aren't going to win against them.
As for SWF, yes, there is a discrepancy in power, but it's really nowhere near as bad as you're making it seem. As someone who spends about equal time playing both survivor and killer (and beyond that, someone who mostly plays weaker killers like Wraith and Legion), I've gone up against a lot of really good SWF lobbies and they're far from insurmountable. When I get bodied, it's usually because I didn't chase well and committed too hard to one survivor instead of doing the smart thing and breaking chase to pressure gens.
A really good killer at the top of their game can obliterate 95% of SWF lobbies and abuse the fact that they almost always play super altruistic. Blaming survivors for your personal failures and going onto the forums to complain about how everything is oh so stacked against you isn't how you get better at the game. You get better by working on your fundamentals and developing better gamesense. Killer is hard, but if you actually work on improving, you'll get better and you'll start to realize that the big, scary SWF's aren't actually all that different from the rare match against 4 solo-queues who all know what they're doing.
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@maaadinsomniac said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1795373#Comment_1795373
Yeah, me too. And there is no medium/slow/ultra slow/slug vault at all. Killers from these days are true heroes!
NOED Exposed status works only on Tier 3, Tinkerer works in different way, no Ruin
To be fair with Tinker, it was a lot stronger on the right killers back then than it is now. Remember machine gun Huntress? I remember machine gun Huntress. Good times.
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The reason Freddy does so well is because he's braindead. He has map-wide pressure because of his ability to teleport anywhere whenever he wants, and his dream snares are basically just an easier-to-use version of Clown's bottles. Both of these powers are easy to use and effective. He's not the best killer in the game by any means, but he's absolutely the easiest to make good use of.
Killers shouldn't have movement and extra objectives and loop pressure abilities and tracking abilities and stealth all at the same time. The reason Freddy is boring is that he has, like, 5 mini-powers that all make up one power that he can't do anything interesting with. He's a basic M1 killer who can show up at generators by holding a button and make chases end faster by holding a different button. The literal only depth he has is that you can teleport to a nearby generator during a chase to approach from an unexpected angle.
Freddy's skill floor and skill cap are nearly identical because his power is a replacement for having a good understanding of fundamentals and how to loop. There is no unique skill to playing as Freddy. There isn't anything inherently wrong with him in a balance sense, necessarily, however he is one of the worst-designed killers in the game, up there with Deathslinger. The only good thing I can say about him is that he's good for beginners. Freddy is training wheels for every other killer in the game, in his current state.
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@Kebek said:
Well maybe you should get away if you managed to kick victor. He'll regrow fast but if you led him far away from charlotte and kicked him on the other side of the map she'll have no idea where you are thus wasted time and can't start chasing you again. That's why the CD is so low because you can lead the chase a whole map away.
Also cooldowns suck, twins are already short on time with how much additional walking them have to do through out chases and hooking so let's not add more cooldowns to them ok.
The problem is that the interaction was Charlotte releasing him during a chase, him immediately missing a pounce, and then me immediately kicking him. There wasn't time for me to get far away from her. Maybe the cooldown should be based on when Victor is initially sent out, which would keep the Twins from getting disproportionately punished for Victor getting kicked after being deployed in a location to detect survivors for a while while also punishing them for using him poorly during a chase.
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@maaadinsomniac said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1795198#Comment_1795198
You mean no exhaustion, super fast healing with Self-Care etc.. Beautiful Times
I miss the period of time where you could make a sabo box with wire and scraps last for seven eternities with Sabo and Streetwise.
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The problem with queue times really isn't as dramatic as "the game is pushing killers away because they're so dreadfully undertuned." It mostly comes down to two things, from what I gather: Killer is a lot more stressful than survivor and demands a larger list of skills that need to be honed through gameplay than survivor does, and a lot of people get into this game through their friends being into it and they want to play with their friends. Their only real option, if they don't have a full 5-stack, is SWF.
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Killer has literally never been easier. You don't know pain if you haven't gone up against a coordinated 4-stack back when this game was new and there was stuff like infinites, vacuum pallets, old exhaustion, old BNP's, instaheals, instablind flashlights, permanent sabotage, and no bloodlust. Maps also used to contain more pallets and windows and less hooks.
As killer, you have access to all sorts of crutches like NOED, bloodlust, Rancor, purple/pink addons, moris, the Ruin Undying combo, Franklin's Demise, or the Spirit Fury Enduring combo. There are also a number of killers who can just win chases 100% of the time once you learn their power, like Nurse, Spirit, or Deathslinger.
So no, I really wouldn't say the game is survivor-sided or that BHVR favors survivors. Learn to apply pressure to generators. Learn to mindgame loops when possible. Don't bloodlust safe pallets. Sometimes a survivor gets a really strong setup with a ton of pallets, and the best thing you can do is break a couple of them and then drop chase to go keep pressuring gens. Even very coordinated 4-stacks can be consistently taken down by really good killers. You aren't going to 4K every match, especially if you're new to the game. A lot of the time (once again, especially if you're new), you'll get 0 kills. It's okay. Matchmaking sucks.
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If you need to tunnel off hook to win, you aren't a good killer. You can say all you want that you don't owe the survivors anything and it's easier to just tunnel off hook or proxy camp or whatever, but it's also easier to do something like bloodlust pallets instead of learning to loop, or running NOED and Remember Me so you have a second chance when 5 gens inevitably get completed so you don't feel like you need to learn how to apply pressure to gens.
Besides, hooking survivors 3 times each and chasing people while they're healthy and switching targets to keep multiple people injured will actually help you pressure the match, get more bloodpoints, and get a higher rank if you're the sort of person to care about rank for anything other than achievements.
Really, tunneling off hook isn't even a very good strategy anyways most of the time. Think about it this way: Unless you happen to be in the area when someone gets unhooked (you shouldn't be lingering there for very long unless you have a 3-gen or two people hooked right next to each other or BBQ doesn't go off or something), you have significantly better things to do than go across map to hit someone just because they're already injured and they're closer to dying. Yeah, sure, you get to kill one person easier, but you need to look at the bigger picture.
If two people know the killer isn't near them after an unhook, those two are probably gonna heal, burning 16 seconds unless they have a medkit or We'll Make It or something, plus however much time it takes for them to run over to the nearest gen. If you're running across the map to go hit someone off hook, you're wasting time you could've spent keeping people off gens. If you're camping near hook, the three other survivors in the match can just all pick different gens and pop three before going for the save.
Your ultimate game plan as killer shouldn't be to focus on the individual kills, but rather how much you can divert survivors' attention from gens to anything else. If someone's on hook, that's one person who isn't doing gens plus one other person who has to go save them and then probably heal. If you're chasing someone during this time, that's three survivors who aren't doing anything, most likely 4 if they aren't queued together. People getting rescues and healing is fine because it wastes their time, which is the best thing you can do as killer.
Divide people's attention. Hook people away from generators and/or exit gates. Make good perk loadouts. Fully utilize the potential of your killer's power. Learn how to mindgame loops, and which pallets are and aren't safe. The way you win as killer is with good gamesense and fundamentals, not cheap tricks that are rewarding in the short-term.