Halun
Halun
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@Itachi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1421252#Comment_1421252
The guy I most commonly find talks during endgame chat.
Have you tried asking them why they just afk?
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I mean let's be honest, the issue isn't playing against friends... It's with people seemingly using voice chat and cheating by relaying information. So I don't understand why the devs don't just integrate an in-game voice chat, make it distance based while in matches, and deem external programs as cheating.
Idk...
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@Huff said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1421825#Comment_1421825
Yes, I adapted to crap. The point of me saying that is to show that I did it when things were worse off, so it's not impossible during this age of the game. Yeah, it's still broken, and I even said it needs to change (which it is, so it's pointless even bringing that up.) That doesn't change the fact that people are still whining over perfectly winnable games.
That cake analogy is horrible. Knowing a rank system isn't the same as knowing a cake "tastes like #########."
"If you take a GM player and a Bronze player..."
No. You can stop there already. A GM vs. a bronze is nowhere near the same thing as people whining about rank in this game. Because like I said, the rank systems are not similar. You literally cannot argue on that basis, so don't even try making that comparison.
I also just noticed after posting this that you said you don't believe me when I say the rank system is meaningless, because it's "too stupid." All I have to say to that is: if you think it is, go watch the devs say it themselves and tell them how stupid it is. Otherwise, don't come to me continuously insisting that the rank system is one that's comparable to other ones like in Overwatch, because as I said, it literally isn't. You admit yourself you don't know how the system works, and that's exactly why I said you better know how the system works before you start complaining about it: you are ignorant to the fact that it is not a legitimate ranking system meant to judge people based on skill. You keep bringing up things with that idea in mind, and it's clear that the reason is because you honestly just don't know how it works.
I mean no disrespect when I say that you don't know how it works. I'm just simply saying that if you don't know how the system functions, then you probably aren't going to get a good idea of how effective it actually is.
"The point of me saying that is to show that I did it when things were worse off, so it's not impossible during this age of the game."
Who ever claimed it was "impossible"? It's just unpleasant and (imo) a waste of my time. I'd rather go play other games if this is going to be my experience here. At least putting time into those other games facilitates rewarding progression and not... whatever this is.
"That doesn't change the fact that people are still whining over perfectly winnable games."
You can claim that, but you can't know that. Because if the ranking system is as ######### up as you claim? Then it's a crap-shoot. You can never know what games are winnable or not. It's literally impossible because there's no metric to determine skill. Maybe some are. Maybe they aren't. Point is, you don't know either. You can't use the ranking system as a justification for your argument claiming games are winnable, but then claim ranking is irrelevant when it's useful for you... That's really how it seems from my perspective.
"That cake analogy is horrible. Knowing a rank system isn't the same as knowing a cake "tastes like [BAD WORD].""
I mean that's an opinion. I disagree. I don't need to know how something functions or how it was created to realize that something is wrong simply by experiencing it. To return to the cake analogy, I might not be able to pinpoint the exact issue, maybe the butter went bad, or the milk soured, who knows? But it's easy to tell if it's bad lol.
"Because like I said, the rank systems are not similar. You literally cannot argue on that basis, so don't even try making that comparison."
They don't have to be. This is the thing you don't seem to consider at all. It doesn't matter if the ranking systems are completely unrelated, there will always be a skill gap. It doesn't matter what game it is. There will ALWAYS be high skill players and low skill players. And I highly doubt that a low skill player is going to perform better at the game than someone with markedly higher skill, knowledge, experience, etc. So of course a higher skill player will be more proficient at completing arbitrary tasks within the game to get medals and stuff. Hence why the GM player will always have a gold over the bronze player. Even if the systems are different, the same is true for this game, and every other competitive game as well.
"if you think it is, go watch the devs say it themselves and tell them how stupid it is."
Gladly. Point me to the video. If they actually say that, I'll be more than happy to tell shout into the void at the devs, telling them how ridiculous that is. But since they aren't fixing the rank system, and they're fixing the matchmaking system? I kinda wonder if they weren't just trying to save their own asses and placate the playerbase without realizing what they were saying... But I'm going out on a limb here. Haven't seen it. Just a feeling I've got all things considered. Could be 100% wrong.
"I mean no disrespect when I say that you don't know how it works. I'm just simply saying that if you don't know how the system functions, then you probably aren't going to get a good idea of how effective it actually is."
Well, if it isn't ranking player skill, then it's not effective at all, is it lol?
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@Bovinity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1421825#Comment_1421825
The ranking system in DbD isn't great, but it's also not "totally meaningless" the way some people say.
I can almost always tell the approximate rank of a survivor just based off how they move. It's a clear difference. Progressing through red ranks - while definitely not a big challenge - does require some semblance of consistent performance.
It doesn't feel meaningless to me. That's why I'm still even arguing about it tbh.
My games feel much more fair when people are all roughly around my rank. I don't always win, but I always feel like it was a good game. And when I get stomped, it's always when I'm up against people 10+ ranks lower than me. And those are never good games. And they make up the majority of the matches I play. 9 out of 10 easy.
Some people would claim that's a coincidence, but idk...
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@Huff said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1421362#Comment_1421362
No offense, but I believe it's probably shocking to you because you're a new player.
Game was just as bad, if not worse, when I first started playing. Guess what? I adapted. Now I'm used to the game.
Yeah, the system does need to be reworked. You can say it's "kinda stupid" to defend a "ranking system that isn't really a rankings system" because you're allowed to have your opinion. I don't see a lot of people "defending" the system either. I just see that the system isn't representative of skill, so that people complaining about it being the cause of their losses is more of a "kinda stupid" thing than anything if you ask me. The devs talk about their plans a lot and if people refuse to keep up with the news of the game, and continue to whine about something that's currently being worked on, then that's just somebody being ignorant and not understanding what things are happening surrounding the game.
You said it yourself that you just bought the game, so I wouldn't expect you to know all this. However, that doesn't make it any less true that the devs have already talked about this several different times. Complaining about it is about as pointless as complaining about "omg Bubba needs a buff" when they've released leaks of the changes to Bubba. It's pointless, it's something that's already been addressed, and nobody wants to see the same repetitive thing spammed over and over, especially coming from people who don't know how the system works in the first place.
Like I said, you can have your opinions, but you better know how the systems you're talking about work before you actually start complaining about them. I see people say things like "I'm just upset that I depipped" or something like that, when people aren't even realizing that pips don't matter. It just shows that people that complain about this kind of thing aren't actually privy to what's going on in the game -- that's why it's silly.
That's why I comment on posts like these telling them to stop complaining about the ranking system. It's not a comparable system to other ELO systems you might get in League of Legends or Overwatch, or whatever other competitive game. Trying to act like it is such does nothing but undermine your own opinion.
Well, I wrote out a long, thoughtful post in response to this, but something happened and it's gone. So I'm gonna try to make this quicker...
"Game was just as bad, if not worse, when I first started playing. Guess what? I adapted. Now I'm used to the game."
You adapted to crap. Congrats. You can be fine putting up with that, but I'm not. And it's still broken.
"Like I said, you can have your opinions, but you better know how the systems you're talking about work before you actually start complaining about them."
I don't have to know how to bake a cake to know if it tastes like #########. And I don't have to know how these systems work to know if something feels broken.
"That's why I comment on posts like these telling them to stop complaining about the ranking system. It's not a comparable system to other ELO systems you might get in League of Legends or Overwatch, or whatever other competitive game."
People who play Overwatch make the same arguments about medals in that game. And guess what? They're wrong. If you take a GM player and a Bronze player and put them on the same team, and make them compete for medals (regardless of role), the bronze is gonna lose every time. I don't know every metric they use in this game's ranking system, but if it's as meaningless as you claim (which honestly I don't believe, because it's just too stupid)? Then they need to just remove and rework the system entirely. If what you're saying is true, it's doing more harm than good.
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EDIT: and now the comment is back.
Oh well...
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@Huff said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1420482#Comment_1420482
Now that is a reasonable thing to say. I agree with you there that there should be good matchmaking, but I simply think that DbD just doesn't work like that right now. That's why I think it's pointless to complain about matchmaking like we see people doing every day.
They've talked about their upcoming matchmaking update for a while now and yet people still make the same "omg I'm green/purple rank and I got matched with red rank and I lost, stupid matchmaking!" posts. I'm fine with people wanting good matchmaking but when it comes down to games that people could have totally won and are just blaming things, it doesn't really show anything but how somebody isn't able to handle the competition.
Justified or not, the matchmaking is the way it is now and it isn't skill-based, so anybody who complains that they're losing simply because of rank just comes across as silly. Wanting a better system, sure that's fine. Go to BHVR for that, but constantly making posts like I mentioned before when matchmaking is meaningless right now is... Well, meaningless.
People are complaining daily because it's a huge issue. Matchmaking is bad, and it's facilitating awful matches. I just bought the game and even to a new player, it's shocking how bad this is. I'm more surprised that people aren't speaking out more. But I figure that's because the devs have stated they're working on it... It's just really bad.
Most people are fine with losing matches. I'm fine with losing. I mean you can't win every game all the time. The issue here is the lack of fairness. Of course people are gonna be upset when games don't feel fair. That probably explains why this community is the way it is...
Regardless, if what you're saying about the ranking system is true? It's just as laughably broken and needs to be reworked too. Because defending a ranking system that isn't really a rankings system, and getting upset at people who mistake it for a rankings system is kinda stupid. If it's truly meaningless, they need to just get rid of it and stop pretending they have ranked play. Or replace it with a real ranking system. Because it's just creating issues.
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@CrowFoxy said:
Making survivors even slower wouldn't change much. What clown lacks, is any lethality at all.
He always has to two hit survs (without a certain...not very well liked add on), and can't deny safe pallets really.
What if they simply allowed the gas to persist longer? That could lead it to being a more worthwhile zoning tool. But that could be pretty oppressive, depending on how long it persists...
Or what if they added a second ability: 'Gas Trap' or something like that. The clown could set his bottles like a trap, and when a survivor gets close it explodes in a poof of gas, causing hindered and alerting the clown. There could be a secondary resource system for that (like the Huntress and her axes), or they could tie it to his main ability... Like setting a trap might not allow him to use that bottle until the trap is sprung or the trap picked back up (ie. if he set one trap, he could only refill 3/4 bottles, etc.). Tons of possibilities.
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@Huff said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1418740#Comment_1418740
"I'm not 'blaming my losses on matchmaking'."
"My losses are because I have drastically less time, experience, and skill in this game when compared to my opponents. But obviously matchmaking contributes to that"
Sounds like exactly what you're doing. Otherwise, there's 0 reason to bring it up in relation to your rough game.
"And if ranks have no bearing on skill, then what is the point of ranking in the first place?" There is none. That's my point. Their rank system is "broken." It doesn't measure skill. you may not think it's broken, but it is. Anybody who knows anything about how the pip system works knows this.
"I mean that's great. I'm happy for you. But legitimate matchmaking systems exist out there, where the player's competition is adjusted based on their skill level in order to provide a fair game." I mean, that's great. But that isn't how it works in DbD.
You say yourself, the devs are reworking the system. You think there's a reason for that, perhaps?
"Honestly? It speaks volumes that you're pretending I'm entitled because I want fair matches that scale with skill, and I don't want to play hundreds of hours of miserable, joyless, one-sided matches for until I "git gud" and they finally start matching me with some new players." Honestly? It speaks volumes that you're trying to put words in my mouth because I criticize what you're complaining about, and don't want to read hundreds of posts of miserable, joyless, one-sided people.
I am saying that rank has nothing to do with skill. Take it how you will, but anything beyond that is just your imagination and feelings making things up.
But yea, I'm toootally acting like you're entitled when I say "It's scapegoating because you're blaming the matchmaking (where ranks have no bearing on skill) on the fact that you lost." Don't really think you're aware of what that word means.
"But that isn't how it works in DbD."
And maybe that's the problem. Clearly people aren't happy with random skill-gapped matches. Even if what you're saying about ranks being meaningless is true (which I don't know if I agree with), that doesn't justify the matchmaking being unpredictable and broken.
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@Huff said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1416538#Comment_1416538
It's scapegoating because you're blaming the matchmaking (where ranks have no bearing on skill) on the fact that you lost.
You just need to get better. Improve, and so will your rank (which again, has nothing to do with actual skill.
You ask "How am I supposed to get skilled when I get stomped out every match because the matchmaking is broken?" You don't get stomped every game because the matchmaking is broken. You get stomped because you're new and obviously don't know enough about the game to succeed. Plenty of people, myself included, are perfectly fine being taught by getting thrown into the fray.
It's common in video games: that's how all my friends learn how to play Smash Bros. with each other. Anybody new who plays with us usually sucks, but they improve really fast because they play against people who know how to play a little. You don't have to play against braindead potatoes to learn. You won't get skilled by playing against those kinds of people.
I'm not "blaming my losses on matchmaking". My losses are because I have drastically less time, experience, and skill in this game when compared to my opponents. But obviously matchmaking contributes to that, considering it's the reason I'm being paired up against people much more capable. It's not an excuse, it's just a reality.
And if ranks have no bearing on skill, then what is the point of ranking in the first place? The entire point of ranked play in games is to rank players according to skill so that they can compete with others at the same level and climb the ladder. So if that isn't how it works in this game, I'd say their ranking system is broken too. But I don't think it really is... The few times I've been paired solely with people roughly around my ranking? Great, fun, enjoyable matches. And it's a bit odd that all the games that go really horribly are the ones against single digit ranked players...
"Plenty of people, myself included, are perfectly fine being taught by getting thrown into the fray."
I mean that's great. I'm happy for you. But legitimate matchmaking systems exist out there, where the player's competition is adjusted based on their skill level in order to provide a fair game. I don't think a working matchmaking system like that is too much to ask for. And it seems the devs agree since they're reworking the system. Just not fast enough.
Honestly? It speaks volumes that you're pretending I'm entitled because I want fair matches that scale with skill, and I don't want to play hundreds of hours of miserable, joyless, one-sided matches for until I "git gud" and they finally start matching me with some new players. It's kind of absurd.
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@KnotEnthusiast said:
Honestly, I doubt it'll ever happen, for exactly the reason you said. So much of the game revolves around movespeed that introducing a killer that essentially has bloodlust 1 built in would require the devs to deliberately gimp their power to offset the movement speed, which just isn't really good from a design standpoint. I don't think anyone would really want to play a killer who's main draw is just moving slightly faster.
I mean... It could be good design. Balancing alone doesn't make for poor design. But it's honestly beyond my ability to come up with anything interesting or unique in order to make it work that well lol.
I do think that a speedy, hit-and-run sort of killer could be interesting though. Who knows...
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@Reaver_Raziel said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1416057#Comment_1416057
Not like ranks really matter. Between green ranks and red ranks the difference is minimal. The difference between different red ranks is insane though.
It almost sounds like the ranking system is broken, doesn't it? Weird.
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@Huff said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1416176#Comment_1416176
Yeah, but most posts about this kind of thing are not about a rank 20 being matched with all rank 1s. It's usually a purple or green rank against red ranks, which is far from impossible. People who complain about that sort of matchmaking are simply just less skilled than their opponents and are looking for some sort of scapegoat to point their finger at.
You know what I say when I go up against red ranks and don't do well? I say "well damn I screwed up a lot that game," or "those guys were really good" or sometimes even "I simply didn't have as good of a setup" if they're all running the most OP things and I'm sitting there with all rank 1 perks or something. In other words, I don't go blaming it on the fact that I may be in green/purple ranks (I am indeed usually in green/purple as killer, and still manage to get 4k against red rank survivors when I want to. It's not impossible.)
I also disagree that just because a killer's or survivor's rank is 18 or anything low like that, that it automatically gives them a disadvantage. That means that they haven't played in a while and decayed, or that they simply don't play enough to raise their rank yet. Point being, while skill might give you high rank, having a high rank doesn't give you skill. I've seen rank 18 players that play like rank 1 and rank 1 players that play like rank 18. so I get your point, but I disagree ultimately.
I know it means "something." That doesn't mean that rank is any measure of skill.
I've owned the game for less than a week. Even I'm sick of this. It's awful, and I can't believe people would defend this...
How am I supposed to get skilled when I get stomped out every match because the matchmaking is broken? I wait 10 minutes to play a game, and lose almost immediately because I'm matched against people who have played the game for drastically longer, and have way more skill and game knowledge. How is that fair?
Blaming the actual problem isn't scapegoating... It's pointing out the obvious.
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@FrauZockinsky said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/C08N4W65EB4A/matchmaking.jpg
This is not okay. I get frustrated often enough because as a green/purple rank killer I get matched more often than not with primarily red ranks. Can't even imagine how discouraging this must be to new players.
It's awful. If I hadn't stupidly left the main menu up while reading up on how to play, etc. I would refund the game. This is a joke.
I can't even learn to play the game. Every match is either against people MUCH more experienced, or against people who are obviously playing in a group. The worst matches involve both, and as a result, the game is no fun at all. It's such a shame. The game has so much potential and could be so fun. But it just... isn't.