Fibijean
Fibijean
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While I do sympathise with those who struggle using a first-person camera, particularly for health reasons (nausea etc.), the entire game is balanced around killers having a first-person camera, and survivors third-person. Everything to do with chases, stealth, tracking, even the design of killer powers - almost every mechanic in DBD relies on it in some way. Changing that would fundamentally upset the balance of the game, and it would have to essentially be rebuilt from the ground up.
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@DepressedClownMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1042521#Comment_1042521
If a person has ds active, she shouldn't br allowed to recover?
I think he's essentially just saying that players shouldn't be able to hard-counter a hard-counter.
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Yes, when you buy the premium pass you receive all the premium rewards from the tiers you have already unlocked.
If I may be so bold as to offer some financial advice, though, I would wait until you reach a point where you can honestly tell yourself "if I bought the pass right now and didn't get any more progress, I would still be satisfied with what I got" before you buy premium.
You are not disadvantaged in any way by buying the pass later rather than sooner, and you don't want to regret it later on if something comes up and you aren't able to progress as far as you were hoping 😊
Personally, even though I know I'm almost certainly going to finish the Rift, I'm waiting until I actually reach tier 70 before I buy the premium pass, just in case!
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@Carlosylu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1039466#Comment_1039466
But... they are too far away ain't they...?
They're not too far away, unfortunately. I've had a couple of embarrassing incidents where I have attempted to vault the window and jumped into the locker instead... multiple times in succession, on one occasion.
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@Nobsyde said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1041835#Comment_1041835
I really don't understand this MMR-abuse hysteria that some people have embraced, especially since nowhere in the Dev post devs say that the MMR is hidden because of that.
Plus, the emblem system was blatant in explaining how one should play to gain emblems, and I don't see abuses there, why things would differ now?
The reality is that knowing both the MMR level of all players and knowing how it works is important because otherwise:
- we won't ever be able to report bugs with it
- no one will know if they're improving
- bugs aside, player feedback should be important
I'm not on the fence here, since the Dev Post was actually very inconspicuous in explaining what will be the changes, they just said there will be some. I hope they'll do the right thing.
I've responded to all of those points previously in this thread.
But as for the emblem system, people absolutely abuse their knowledge of how it works. The fact that the emblem system is so transparent is why so many people confuse ranking up as being the objective of the game. And there are thousands of people every day that play badly on purpose to derank, and they do it because they can, because they know how the system works and so they know how to play to derank while still maximising their bloodpoint gains.
I'm not saying there wouldn't be advantages to having at least an approximation of one's MMR rating publicly visible, but players abusing that knowledge to game the system is definitely a real disadvantage.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1042495#Comment_1042495
To be fair, I think such technology is more of a when than an if. I could imagine reaching a point where that actually becomes possible.
Oh yeah, absolutely. I'm just not sure if it's feasible right now.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1042481#Comment_1042481
In some games, that is possible. In others (like, say, a game where the username shows up in multiple spots or even worse, it hovers around with a player character), it would be way more difficult.
Hm, that's true. I imagine the only way to reliably do it would be for either the streamers or the streaming platform to use some kind of technology that automatically detects and blurs any words on the screen. Which I'm sure is technically possible, but I'm not sure how easily accessible that kind of software would be.
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@TAG said:
I am not a lawyer or legal expert in any way, but I don't see how there would be any way to enforce rules forbidding streaming other online players you are playing with who don't want it outside of just forbidding streaming online gameplay in its entirety.
You could potentially enforce a rule that requires them to not reveal other people's usernames on their stream. At least that protects them from being targeted by the streamer's rabid fans if something goes wrong ingame.
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There's nothing wrong with Unbreakable. He was just being a sore loser because you ruined his fun - ironically enough, considering the strategies he was employing himself.
I hope you reported him though, since if that "BAD WORD" is what I think it is, he could get banned for saying things like that.
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@Hellbughunter said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1042163#Comment_1042163
So behaviar is EAing us? Money first, player second? If i remember correctly behaviar has a record of failurse the last being death garden and at this rate i wouldn't put it bejond to make as much money as possible and finishing of dbd. And i love that it's always "we are convident..." , if that's the convident that brought us the update where a blind or a stun at any moment of pick up drops a survivor, then there convidence doesn't bring me convidence
All businesses prioritise making money. Any business that manages to convince you differently is just really good at marketing.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1042246#Comment_1042246
and now I wanna play some Overwatch...
Go for it! 😊
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Achievements, probably. And also as a visible measure of your own skill, although there's not a lot of value to it since, as everyone has been saying for a while, rank really means nothing when it comes to measuring skill. Still, it's better than nothing, and some might enjoy having it regardless.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1042138#Comment_1042138
Feel like one of DBD's biggest problems with ranking is the safety pip. Often times, when you win you pip up, but when you lose... how often are you losing rank? Typically the only time people are only losing meaningful rank is during rank reset, which is where this whole rank doesnt equal skill but rather time played thing comes from. With Overwatch, im likely to gain a little bit of rank points and lose a little bit of rank points all night long. I could play for hours and only see a higher rank at the end of the night if I won more games than I lost. With dbd... thats not the case. You win, you rank up. You lose, that safety pip is there so you dont feel bad about it.
Thats why the majority of people who play Overwatch are playing in gold (a rather modest rank) while the majority of DBD's playerbase is at purple if not red. When you play a game of Overwatch, you're not gonna see a top 500 player smashing your gold game. When you play a game of DBD, you can very easily see the top players matched with the average ones who for some reason are the same exact rank because theres no rank further to go after red...which the majority of ppl are at.
I don't mind the safety pip, but I think like many things in DBD's ranking system, it just doesn't do what it was designed to do. The safety pip is supposed to indicate that you're at the right rank. You performed as expected for someone of your rank - you didn't do badly enough that the game thinks you should be ranked lower, but you didn't do well enough to demonstrate that you've improved. However, the safety pip is simply too easy to achieve a lot of the time. As the name implies, it's functionally a safety net, not an estimation of skill.
Part of the problem comes from the misconception with DBD that a lot of people have that if you didn't pip, you're doing something wrong. And I think the fact that players are shown their rank progression after each match has a big part to play in creating that mindset. There is no expectation in games like Overwatch that every player should be able to reach top ranks, but because pipping is so easy in DBD, and because people see themselves safety pipping or depipping and feel like it means they're bad, there is a general notion in DBD that anyone who isn't at top ranks is a bad player. And the safety pip is partially to blame for that, but I think the culture surrounding ranks is just as much of an issue.
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@LemeTheMeme said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1041759#Comment_1041759
Okay, you make it so hard not to agree with you on every damn post you make. I guess over time it will be a solid representation of where you belong. Obviously in the beginning, it will be crucial for these simple variables, but like you said over time, it will definitely place you in an accurate position.
That's the theory. I've seen it work well in a lot of other games, even ones with RNG or bad teammates to complicate matters. And thank you, I appreciate the compliment! 😊
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@OmegaXII said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1041991#Comment_1041991
Survivors are supposed to work as a team IMO.
And for logistical issues, remember this is a video game. Logically survivors won't survive at all since they die by taking a hit from hammer or chainsaw or whatever it is lol.
As for balancing, i'm not sure about this at the moment
It is nice when survivors work as a team, but right now they have the option not to. What you're proposing would force them to do so, since their survival would be directly, not just indirectly, dependent on one another's performance.
And I said logistical, not logical, but the words are similar so I can understand the confusion. Logistics has to do with the finer details of organisation and implementation in a complex operation such as this one.
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1042171#Comment_1042171
Yes, I agree, I dont really need to see the exact number, something like a skill rank would be enough.
The problem with devs is that they NEVER say that in the patch notes. Their announcements suck.
Doctor change looked like nerf because of how they worded it and all the bugs in the PTB.
They said nothing about gen speeds when they nerfed Ruin, they only told us about gatekeeper emblem.
Now hiding matchmaking without telling a reason.
Later most things turn out fine, but the initial patch notes always announce apocalypse.
I agree that the PR could use some work. The post they made for the Ruin change in particular was pretty disastrous. I assume by the Patch Notes you mean the Designer Notes, since the Patch Notes aren't there to justify the changes, just to state what changes are being made.
However, I can also understand why they don't want to say things like "don't worry, it's not as bad as it looks, we're planning to do X in the future" because in the past when they have revealed plans like that when they're still in the development process, people have interpreted them as promises and then got upset when plans changed later down the line. So it's understandable, I think, that they have decided to no longer reveal plans until they're on the brink of being implemented.
Personally, I've learned that their most (apparently) nonsensical plans tend to have an explanation somewhere down the line. Sometimes they just make bad decisions, but most of the time they have a long-term goal in mind that we can't see. That's why I tend to assume that we will get more information about things later on, and not get too up-in-arms immediately after changes are announced.
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Can I take refuge here again? I'm scared 😥
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@Financial_Stability said:
Only if you want a 6ft 2 man dressing up as Nurse.
You'd have a pillowcase on your head. No one would know 😉
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1042151#Comment_1042151
This is why I think they should show it.
It would show people that skill matchmaking works, and now the only concern would be making sure that skill rating reflects actual skill of the player.
Its really a good thing to be able to compare yourself with other players, seeing numbers yourself is different than "feeling".
I dont think just showing skill rating could lead to abuse of the system, while players will benefit from being able to see it
I see what you're saying about the idea that being able to see the numbers could give players a kind of confidence. From a UX perspective, I agree it would be nice in that sense.
However, I'm not convinced that showing us the numbers wouldn't do more harm than good. Perhaps we could have a compromise where it shows us not our exact MMR, but rather an approximation of it, similarly to how rank is displayed in LoL, for example.
And on top of that, it's also possible that the devs do intend to do something along those lines at a later date, and they are hiding the numbers for now so that they can test the system independently and without player input, since the DBD community do have a tendency to jump the gun and condemn changes before they've even had a chance to test them properly. If I were a dev, I would probably want to test it privately at first without having to deal with an immediate storm of complaints about the system not working properly the second it goes live.
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@kate_best_girl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1042125#Comment_1042125
Your exact words "We shouldn't feel we have the right to have our feedback listened too." You say they want whats best for the playerbase but when the playerbase comes together and says "Hey we HATE this change please change it!" They blatantly ignore us they ignore EVERYTHING we say and its ridiculous. You know they do so stop acting like the devs even care about us because they've shown us by pushing through this recent patch, leaving huge game breaking loops and perks in the game, and not even fixing issues that they said they'd fix YEARS ago, that they could care less what we want if it doesn't make them any money.
Because we don't have that right. Having our feedback listened to is a privilege, not a right. We are not entitled to anything from the developers. Every one of us agreed to a EULA which states exactly that.
And of course the developers want to make money. They're a business. That doesn't mean they don't care about the players or their experience, because it's actually in their best financial interests to make the player experience as enjoyable as possible, which is why they don't ignore everything we say and they do make changes that they believe are for the betterment of the game. Just because they aren't doing exactly what you think they should be doing does not mean they're doing nothing.
I understand your frustration, but it's becoming very clear that you are going to believe what you want to believe, about the developers and about me, unless I roll over and tell you you're right. I made this reply mainly to clarify what I said, since you seem to have grossly misinterpreted it, but otherwise I think it's best we end this here before things get too heated.
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1042125#Comment_1042125
I understand, its just that sometimes devs judge feedback to be not relevant and ignore it, proof makes it impossible to ignore to some extent, If devs deny something hard enough, you can make community wide experiment and try to prove them wrong.
Hiding matchmaking values would make that impossible and allow devs to pretend that the problem does not exist.
Possibly, but as I said, the point of matchmaking is ultimately to give players a good experience and make them feel like they are on a level playing field, skill-wise. If the players are unsatisfied and not having fun, it won't matter whether the players can prove that there's something wrong or not - it's in the devs' best interests, as a business, to do something to address the issue and improve the player experience.
If they want to make up lies or excuses and dismiss concerns, they can do so to the same effect regardless of whether players can see the numbers or not - instead of saying "don't worry, the numbers are fine" they could easily say "don't worry, the numbers you're seeing are bugged and inaccurate". But they have no actual incentive to do that, because in either case the player experience is suffering, and that's the important part for both them and us.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1042112#Comment_1042112
Heres something to think about... As a former Overwatch player, alot of my thoughts and comparisons are to Overwatch. With THEIR MMR system, it doesnt really matter how well you personally did, just matters what the end result was. You couldve been a godly Widowmaker and had a super close game, but since your 5 teammates were afk in spawn the entire game and you couldnt QUITE 1 v 6 the whole match you lost and thus drop MMR. With all the variables in determining how well a player did...what if they just streamlined it by basing the system on a clear-cut win or lose. Did you survivor? Thats a win and heres a better rating. Did you solo 4 gens and still die? Well thats still a loss, lets drop that rating.
Ultimately a system isnt going to be able to determine every variable in seeing just how well someone played. I could camp every pallet on the map and not try to loop anything and a system that is only looking at chase time would see that I'm WAY better than the guy who went down due to not having anything left to work with since I left the map a giant dead zone.
I agree, and I think Overwatch has the right idea. No algorithm is ever going to be able to account for all variables, so I personally feel that the only solution is to forget about the variables and base MMR solely on kills or escapes. Yes, you might get screwed over by RNG or bad teammates, but ultimately, if a player is good enough, they will win more often than not in spite of all that.
There are plenty of highly successful games, with a lot of variables involved and, in some cases, a lot of RNG - League, Overwatch, Hearthstone, to name a few - in which the MMR system is based purely on victories and defeats, and it still works perfectly well for that exact reason.
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1042112#Comment_1042112
Im sorry I think we miscomunicated.
I think I also already explained why players seeing ranks is important.
Yes, you did. Thank you for taking the time to explain your views so thoroughly. But since we've both stated our opinions and are in danger of going around in circles if we continue much further, how about we agree to disagree and leave it at that? 😊
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1042106#Comment_1042106
Screenshots are proof, because it shows that "there are instances where matchmaking is NOT workin". This does not mean that it does not work at all, but that it SOMETIMES does not.
But what if you stream 100 games in a row and show matchmaking results? You can make a statistic and show that for an average player matchmaking dies not AT ALL.
While feeling that "I think it does not work" proves nothing.
You're not listening to what I'm saying. I never said you can't give proof, I said that proof will not matter when it comes to giving feedback, because all feedback is subjective and anecdotal and you can't "prove" an opinion. The devs will listen to what you have to say, or not, regardless of how many screenshots you have to support it.
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@kate_best_girl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1042092#Comment_1042092
You're right, screw the playerbase! Screw everyone who plays this game right? Its their game so we dont matter at all!
I hope you don't actually think the things you say and are only saying it because you're trusted
I never said that, I have said from the beginning that players have an important role to play in giving feedback on the game, and it is in BHVR's best intersts as a business to do what they can to improve the players' experience. All I'm saying here is that it is the developer's prerogative to choose whether or not they want to listen to the feedback we give, and we shouldn't behave as if we have the right to make them do whatever we want with their game.
But if you're going to be disingenuous and put words into my mouth with every reply you make, maybe it's best that we end the conversation here, as it's obviously not going anywhere productive. All I can say is that if you treat the developers' comments with the same bad faith you're treating mine, it's no wonder you find it easy to believe the worst of them.
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1042095#Comment_1042095
Ugh.. Im not talking about hiding ranks, Im talking about hidin the new Skill Rating or whatever.
There is nothing that explains that in the post.
I was talking about ranks in the comment you replied to, because that's what LordGlint was discussing in his story. So it was a natural assumption that when I said "rank is no indication of skill level" and you said "then why not let us see it", the "it" was referring to my mention of rank. So no need to go "ugh" as if I'm being really dense or something.
Also, I've explained to you already in that other thread why I think it's a bad idea to let players see the MMR rating. I don't need to repeat myself here.
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1042086#Comment_1042086
But what will you say to them without data?
"I feel matchmaking does not work."
And they say "We have data that shows it works.
End of discussion.
Yep. Because you are one person and your experience is not universal. And they would say the exact same thing even if you gave them 100 screenshots of games you had played where it wasn't working. Again, they don't disregard a particular piece of feedback because it's not backed up by proof, they disregard it because they have their own reasons to believe that it's inconsequential - reasons that have nothing to do with anything the player can or cannot provide to back up their complaint. They are not more or less likely to listen to a complaint because it has screenshots accompanying it, because there is no data you can give them that they don't already have access to.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1042046#Comment_1042046
I remember playing a game as Billy and just demolishing a team, but there was a baby Claudette that I felt bad for. I remember it being down to 2 people, so I was chasing her teammate and letting her live. I even kinda just gave her a nod to let her know I definitely saw her and didnt hit her on purpose when I was being looped around wretched shop. Endgame chat comes along and she was red ranked. Told me the whole thing made her husbands night (who was in her SWFs squad) because they knew I thought she was a baby survivor. Apparently a big reason why she got so high in ranks is because...so many killers took pity on her.
If she played badly enough for you to think that, maybe she's not as good as she thought. Or maybe, as Archimedes suggested, she was playing badly on purpose, to make you think that she was worse than she was. Either way, she was playing badly, and the only reason her rank didn't reflect that is because, as we've established, the current ranking system doesn't reflect players' demonstrated skill level very accurately.
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1042046#Comment_1042046
Then why not let us see it.
And skill rating is SUPPOSED to indicate skill level, thats all the more reason to show it to us.
The devs themselves have acknowledged that the current ranking system does not accurately reflect skill, in spite of that being its intended function. They said so in the update post. That's the whole reason they're introducing this new system in the first place.
Incidentally, they also explained their reasons for hiding ranks in that post as well. Maybe you should give it another read.
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@kate_best_girl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1042077#Comment_1042077
Yeah but League devs as far as I know aren't prone to sweeping things under the rug, lying, and pretending everything is fine so people stop complaining. The DBD devs are prone to these things so they NEED to show proof for their work like a middle school math equation. If we could trust these devs they wouldn't need too but they've shown to be seriously untrustworthy
They don't "need" to do anything. It's their game, and we have (temporarily) purchased the right to play it. We're not their teachers. It's not our job to tell them how to make their game. It's our job to give them critical feedback about how we think it could be improved, based on our own experiences with it, for the sake of everyone involved. But at the end of the day, the game is their property, and they get the final say.
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1042054#Comment_1042054
Developers are the ones doing changes, but it does not mean we cant send feedback or complain. Hiding things takes that away from us. If devs believe our claims are bullshit, then they just ignore them, and do whatever they want with their game, but they cant just hide all controversial things from players because "they know what they are doing"
Of course it doesn't mean we can't give feedback. I've said the whole time that feedback and complaints are great, but we don't need data to base them on. They have all the data regardless of how much players have. If a player's complaint is legitimate, and matches up with what their data tells them, they will take it on board. If a player's complaint is not legitimate, and doesn't line up with the data or with the experiences of other players, even if that player has screenshots or numbers to back up their complaint, the devs will likely dismiss it. Again, players don't need to prove that their complaints are legitimate. The developers will listen to them, or not, regardless.
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@kate_best_girl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1042057#Comment_1042057
Yeah not sure why a game like overwatch hasn't been exploited or even figured out yet then even though its playerbase is like 10x larger. Overwatch shows MMR so you'd think its ranking system would be exploited all to hell right now huh? But its not soooo
And yet, there are plenty of posts online analysing the Overwatch MMR algorithm, and plenty more explaining the best ways to derank according to it. If Blizzard wants to display MMR, knowing the risks, that's their decision. There are plenty of other extremely popular games, like League, that don't. It doesn't mean it's a good idea for DBD.
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1042031#Comment_1042031
Cool. And we want our developers to do that too.
Why? Because we want to know if it works or not and we want to see how good our enemies were. This is why ranks are shown in other games. I dont want to guess if my enemies were good or not and does matchmaking work or not.
Sure. And it's totally fine for you to request that as a feature. But bear in mind that it is a request, not a demand, and they may choose not to take it on board.
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@kate_best_girl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1042043#Comment_1042043
Why not show MMR to see if matchmaking was REALLY fixed instead of "I just feel this way."
I already explained above why it's a bad idea to show MMR. I can't think of a better way to express my point than I already have, so I'm not just going to repeat myself.
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1042020#Comment_1042020
I cant count how many people are complaining about things and nothing is being done.
Example: the infamous "aim assist". People call it that because thats what they think it is, devs call it "animation enhancement" because they know how it works. The system does not let you hit surviviors you should not have, but does 2 probably the most annoying things currently:
- Missing 360ing surviviors.
- Hook tech.
It is clear that there should be an option to disable it but devs do nothing, becuse most players are not even aware how ot works or even exists.
Maybe those people should consider the possibility that the developers have reasons we don't know about for not listening to certain complaints. For example, they haven't listened to people suggesting that generator times need to be extended - not because they aren't acknowledging game length as an issue, but because they're exploring different and more engaging methods for addressing it.
Since they're the ones actually working on the game, they can see the big picture, they know their own plans, and all we see is what's in front of us right now, maybe we should acknowledge that instead of assuming that we're the only ones to which the necessary changes are "clear".
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1042009#Comment_1042009
You say that, but you have no idea how many survivors I take pity on because I assume theyre newbies who got brought in by their SWF buddies, only to findout that the baby dwight that I gave hatch to was actually red ranked...
Yet more proof, as if we needed it, that rank is no indication whatsoever of skill level 😋
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@kate_best_girl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1042020#Comment_1042020
Did you REALLY just say "We shouldn't use proof for our claims just personal experiences!" Im sorry but that is...kinda dumb
Nope, not what I said. What I said was that your own personal experience is all you can be expected to rely upon when giving feedback on someone else's design. Because when you're giving feedback on a design, any claims you make are subjective. You can't "prove" an opinion.
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1042009#Comment_1042009
Then why all games mentioned above show the ranking system in the game end screen?
Because the developers of those games decided they wanted to display ranks at the end of the game. It's that simple. That doesn't mean that it needs to be there, and it certainly doesn't mean that DBD necessarily ought to follow suit. Doing something just because another game did it, without any consideration for how it would work in the context of your game, is a disastrous way to go about designing one.
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1041999#Comment_1041999
Well yes, I need it. Outplaying rank 20 surviviors is not a display of skill. I know that you can notice when you are playing vs rank 20, but this is just a feeling, no definite proof.
Even if the new matchmaking will work, Im sure that after some time it will start making mistakes, like every system. Without any feedback or complaints backed with definite proof, devs will probably not care enough to fix it.
Can you say that devs would fix the current matchmaking if not for the countless screenshots showing how bullshit it is?
Yes, I think they would have. Because they have access to that data themselves. Players don't need to back up their feedback with any proof other than their own experience, and the developers don't expect them to. The devs are the ones with the stats. They would have known that people were being matched with others far outside their rank bracket even without players providing screenshots. Our job isn't to back up our claims with stats, it's to tell them what our experience of the game is like, perhaps make some suggestions as to what we think could be improved, so that they can make changes accordingly... or not, as the case may be.
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Surely anyone with any game knowledge whatsoever can tell another player's skill just by playing with or against them. The only people who should need an arbitrary number to know what another player's skill level is are those who are too new to worry about it.
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1041975#Comment_1041975
Unfortunately most people just cannot trust them, because current system does not work at all. Just showing our and enemy Skill Rating in the end game screen, just like we can see ranks now, would let us know if 1.matchmaking works and 2.we played good or not. I dont think it would be enough to abuse anything, but it would be enough to trust devs.
You don't need a number in the tally screen to know if you played well. You can judge that just by how good you were at outplaying your opponent. And you don't need a number to know if matchmaking is working, either - the purpose of matchmaking is ultimately to make players feel like they are on an even playing field, skill-wise, and if you can judge your own skill, you can judge your teammates' and opponents' as well. If the game felt evenly matched, that's all the information you need to know that matchmaking is doing its job.
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So in other words, what if DBD were truly a team game and all the survivors won or lost as a group? It's an interesting idea, but I fear there might be a whole slew of balancing and logistical issues lurking just below its surface.
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There are too many variables to quantify skill on a micro level. As soon as you start trying to account for different variables, you necessarily have to account for others, and then you get something like our current ranking system which is not only an inaccurate reflector of player skill but also encourages players to conform to a particular tactic in order to demonstrate their "skill".
The only solution, therefore, is to measure skill on a macro level, by how well players succeed in their ultimate goal (escapes/kills), ignoring all the variables and trusting to statistical probability that the variables will even themselves out over time. Yes, sometimes you get screwed over by bad teammates or RNG, but in the grand scheme of things, skilled players will still win more often than they lose (I know, I know, some people like to define winning by different means, but for clarity's sake I am defining wins here by kills/escapes, so just humour me this once).
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1041835#Comment_1041835
I personally would rather have some people trying to abuse the system than not knowing if the ststem exist at all. Because this is what hiding ranks/skill rating/matchmaking will lead to.
I wouldn't. We don't need to know what's going on behind the scenes, and we have no right to. If they say "we're introducing X feature" they don't need to prove to us that they are doing what they say. All that should matter to us as players is the end user experience. We can give feedback on whether we're feeling an improvement in our gameplay experience or not as far as the relative skill of our opponents/teammates goes without needing to know exactly what's happening on the other end.
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@FleshTorpedo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1041855#Comment_1041855
its either the player base is now too small to adequately fill the queues for balanced matchmaking or the devs are not willing or can not fix the matchmaking and throwing it behind a curtain. Not being able see the ranking/elo scores of players you just played against means they can fill queues unevenly and players just toss it up to a bad match when a rank 20 killer gets stomped on by a red rank swf.
Hiding mmr/elo before a match finishes prevents lobby dodge based on rank but it serves no purpose to the player base to hide it after the match finishes. By all means change the rank system over to elo but actually show the players their ranks and others they just finished playing with. But if all you want is rank 1's stomping baby survivors or killers then I guess the devs are throwing in the towel.
If BHVR really wants the community to have blinders on, then give us the option to toggle rank visibility so those who are to insecure about their rank dont have to look at, and those of us that are used to competitive games and elo systems can use it to analyze how we played relative to elo's in the lobby.
As I said, maybe they don't want people to be able to analyse the system because that puts them a step closer to decoding the algorithm, which would defeat the point of having a hidden algorithm in the first place.
Competitive games like League don't show you your own MMR or anyone else's, to my knowledge, and nobody cares because nobody expects Riot to give players access to all their data. So why do DBD players act like we have the right to know anything that goes on behind the scenes?
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1041850#Comment_1041850
Fair enough. The communication barrier here is somewhat apparent though regardless.
It would be nice to have more information in general, of course, but the impression I get is that the CMs do their best to keep us in the loop as much as they can without disclosing confidential information. And we should remember that we have only paid for the right to play their game, and any additional information or communication we do get from them is a privilege, not something we're entitled to.
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@XVigilanteX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1041826#Comment_1041826
I can't tell if I'm being trolled honestly would you mind posting your screenshots?
Well, I'm not experiencing the bug, so I don't have any relevant screenshots to post. I know you're probably joking, but some people here are genuinely trying to get help. If you're one of them, screenshots would be useful. If you're not here to get help, I'd ask that you be considerate by not derailing the thread of someone who is.
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@kate_best_girl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1041835#Comment_1041835
Yeah but it also masks the problem, allowing for a lot of rumors to start which will end with people leaving the game because no one will believe it was truly implemented, is really inconvenient since you don't know if you're doing good or if you're doing horrible, and doesn't help you improve.
You know you're doing well if you outplay your opponents. You don't need a number to tell you that.
And there are plenty of other games with a hidden MMR system where players don't leave because of it. If people are going to leave the game just based on their own speculation about what the devs are up to, quite frankly they need to get a grip. The problem there is the community, not the developers.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1041809#Comment_1041809
To be fair, that really is skirting the line of honesty and communication with the player base. Like, that isn't a lie I agree, but dude you have to admit that is really pushing the envelope.
He did misinterpret the comment he was replying to, but if they had been saying that ranks had been removed from the tally screen already just based on hearsay (which is exactly what a lot of other people were saying) I think it's best to clear up the misinformation rather than say nothing and let people get themselves all worked up over it before they knew the full story.
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@PokemonGOPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1041809#Comment_1041809
Didn't mean to put it that way, I guess the "I don't blame them" was too much, I was just trying to help finding the comment because I, too, remembered something similiar, even if essentially different after a recent read. I don't believe the Devs are "monsters", I know there are decisions to be made from a buinsness standpoint, I know they can't tell us everything right away.
I'm on the side of the community that finds most of their decisons to be questionable but I have no insight and I'm no buinsnessman.
Anyway, I'm going off topic for the third time in a row so I guess I'll stop writing in this thread.
No I know, sorry, I didn't mean to direct any of that at you. It was meant to be directed towards the people you're referring to, who take silence as an indication that the devs are lying to them.
I just get really sick of people confusing their own interpretations of other people's comments with what was actually said, and throwing accusations like "Peanits is a liar" around without proof. Constructive criticism is great, but if we're going to criticise things the devs say or do, we should get our facts straight first and criticise things they actually said or did, not what someone else accused them of.