Chapero
Chapero
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- Chapero
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Of course he's way too powerful: extreme mobility, extreme detection, control over everything that can happen in the match, a ranged attack with a fairly generous hitbox for hitting survivors but a much smaller hitbox for colliding with the map geometry, good for camping, good for tunneling, he can hit two people at once, which is the typical bullshit they added so he can hit the rescuer and remove Borrowed Time from the rescued survivor, he counters flashlights, he counters pallet saves, not only because he throws you or impales you, but because he can also Mori you with everything that entails, he sees everyone who performs an action as red mist, the red mist can be seen through walls, and on top of that, after that detection he gets Killer Instinct, so, as if the previous detection wasn't enough, he also knows where you're going or moving. The detection and jumpscare radius is quite large. When he reappears, he can do it facing any direction and in almost any location, regardless of whether there is ground there or not. He blocks windows, blocks pallets, blocks paths, he can throw the spear with just the right drop to take advantage of the survivor hitbox, he can thread it through small gaps, at the exit gate he impales you, throws you into an unsafe area to get a double hit, reappears with no penalty and can attack instantly, he gets Haste for free, he has his power every few seconds, his power resets the hooks, the map is full of spears, the spear's travel speed without charging is insane, he can teleport from far away and at a good distance, adding even more mobility to his absurd movement speed, and not only that. Of course, he can do it between different elevations. When you have the spear stuck in you, he sees you through walls. If you pull it out, you get a 10% Hindered penalty. If you don't pull it out, he can kill you as well as see you. In his ######### ghost mode, he sees every defensive option the survivors have as if he had a free fifth perk. He can quickly destroy unfavorable breakable walls. He can make long-range shots because the spear's drop is in the sweet spot for the survivor hitbox without sacrificing effective range. The Haste he shouldn't even have also lasts ridiculously too long. Anything that causes regression either gives him Exposed for detection, a free hit, or causes loss of progress, whether it's Sloppy Butcher, Ruin, or exit gate regression. He can patrol infinitely because he has no limit; his power is infinite. He can see the exit gate lights in ghost mode. He can hear the hatch in ghost mode. The effect of crouching to avoid the jumpscare isn't instant; a few seconds have to pass. The killer's size is favorable for medium loops. Obviously they realized that, with the ######### spear design, if they made him taller, the angle combined with that generous hitbox for hitting survivors but the lack of hitbox for colliding with the map geometry would be too much, so on top of Haste he also has a medium-sized model. Only a blind person wouldn't see how powerful this killer is, only someone very, very blind, because even impaling people down the basement stairs is broken. And I repeat, it doesn't just let him throw you into a dead zone, it's also perfect for playing dirty on the basement stairs; if not, there's the double hit I already mentioned. You'd have to be incredibly blind to say he isn't way too powerful. I guess since everything gets compared to the trash that is Nurse or Decay, then sure, you're right, Jason is trash. They should buff him even more so Nurse would look like garbage in comparison, because, at this point, seeing what the game is turning into, what does it matter?
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The extreme toxicity generated by this game comes from the fact that it doesn’t feel fair for either side. The imbalance is huge, and people end up paying the consequences. Instead of making the game even minimally balanced, they’ve chosen to generalize everything on one side and add RNG on the other, which constantly leads to matches that are unplayable or simply miserable for both sides.
MMR is garbage, RNG is garbage, latency issues combined with the netcode are just as bad. The homogenization of perks is probably the worst of all, and the 7-tier lethality system isn’t even worth mentioning. Almost everything related to techniques that border on exploits is another problem. As a result, the DBD community is so divided because matches rarely feel fair for either side. It’s really not that hard to understand.
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I assume you're complaining about the hitbox; however, I wanted to comment on something different. That said, I'll add to your point since I agree with it.
I'm attaching a video, if possible, and a couple of screenshots from today while playing with a friend. These happened to him.
On my end, what I believe has no place with Wesker is being hit from a distance after fully vaulting a window, or after fully vaulting a pallet. I say this because the killer already has countless benefits grouped into a single button, and because of the game's general mechanics. Taking Pyramid Head as an example: if you run straight to a pallet and the killer isn't a monkey, he's not going to fall for the bait. So this becomes the same situation that wasn't tolerated back in the day, and still isn't tolerated (it's currently being tolerated with Kaneki's vault cancel, but that's once again due to poorly implemented programming).
In Pyramid Head's case, a delay was added precisely for that reason: so that in a situation where the survivor has an advantage or an opportunity, it doesn't automatically become a 0% chance. That's exactly what's happening with Wesker: either he holds his power, or he uses it as soon as you vault and then hits you after you're completely outside the hitbox thanks to the tentacle, from an absurd distance (intentionally programmed).
We all know Billy can land a basic attack without penalty when his chainsaw is raised, or Huntress can do similar things, etc., but that's because those are different mechanics. The fact that Wesker, after all the benefits he already has (which are many, I repeat, many), and with minimal cooldown on top of that, is also given this... is absurd.
If you don't vault (and again, assuming he's not a monkey), he holds the power and redirects the hit.
If you do vault, you clear it easily, yet he still hits you from range thanks to a very poorly implemented interaction.
If this were properly designed, Demogorgon should be able to do exactly the same thing. This isn't about going back to the usual topic of overall game balance; let's talk about an identical situation: Demo either reaches you or he doesn't, and on top of that he's far more rigid and easier to bait. Wesker completely ignores the core mechanic with his tentacles. If he were a weak killer with no advantages, it would still make some sense, but considering how versatile and strong he is in capable hands, it's absurd.
Well, that's obviously why you can go weeks without seeing a Demogorgon, while the other one can show up in three matches in a row.
Attached in relation to the main topic, not mine.
The survivor's and killer's ping were 48 ms and 52 ms respectively, so this cannot reasonably be attributed to high latency.
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It's great. If we had a customizable custom match, your ideas could be tested, and of course the community would have already managed to balance the game years ago. Realistically, considering the direction the game has taken, no matter how brilliant your contributions might be in practice, they won't even be taken into consideration. It's a shame, I truly mean that.
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"(survivors only repair)"
Of course, handsome... A machine, a behemoth, a beast, a knight main with Dissolution.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4084205#Comment_4084205
Some builds are affected, I wouldn't claim otherwise.
However, it's really relevant here that stacking the same effect is NOT the entirety of buildcrafting. There are a lot more ways of finding synergies than just using the same modifier more than once, and using the same modifier more than twice has always been either a silly gimmick or something people did because the combo ended up broken.
Exactly. The thread itself is basically a complaint asking when people will be able to abuse it again. It really shows how little some people care about balance, the game itself, or the rest of the players.
If it was removed, there was probably a reason for it, just like the old mori after the first hook or the syringe that could heal two health states.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4083126#Comment_4083126
Pretty much you cant nerf her either it will do almost nothing or make her terrible so rework is bets way how to deal with her without making her super bad or keeping her in same/almost same spot where she is now.
Exactly, the problem with killers like Blight, Spirit, and Nurse is fundamentally their design. Nerfs are just patches for a bigger issue, which is the character's design itself.
In Nurse's case, you could give her the three-hit system (infect, injure, and down), but all that would really do is make the same survivor take the first three hooks. It would change how she's played, but it wouldn't solve the underlying problem.
The same applies to Blight. Being a 4.4 m/s killer is something he should have been from day one, but that alone is not a solution for a killer whose design is fundamentally flawed. The same goes for Spirit.
In cases like these, patches are not the solution when the design itself breaks the systems the entire game is built around.
What is clear is that if the game has a core methodology and a set of fundamental rules, then it would make sense not to introduce designs that completely, or almost completely, break them.
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dbd-killer-tier-list-patch-9-4-2-v0-rirsiuvqkgog1 (1).png@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4082985#Comment_4082985
That's certainly a take
Indeed, it is an opinion, thanks for covering me and pointing that out.
Yes, an opinion like any other... "the game is balanced because generators can still be repaired", "repairing quickly automatically equals balance", "genrush proves that survivors are strong", or that "a 20-second chase is a satisfying experience because generators can be completed".
All opinions. Like many of the things that have for years been called (from opinion) balance.
This doesn't prove anything, of course. I just randomly came across it yesterday and thought it was interesting.
No opinion attached.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
Aa someone who plays both roles equally I'm interested to hear what people think on this, from both sides of the killer/survivor spectrum.
Because I see some players who will get triggered by people literally just trying to play the game well. Like as surv I'll run a long chase, good pathing, couple of efficient loops, avoid killers power, maybe a pallet stun and/or blind or two. No bagging, no nodding or shaking head, no gestures and killers will get obviously very mad and occasionally send a salty message.
Likewise as killer when I play well against a team I'll often catch flak after even if I didn't bm them.
As survivor I'll consider killers toxic if they: hit on hook, the old back and forth over me when im slugged, 0r constant nodding/shaking head when they down me. Tunneling, proxy camping and slugging is an iffy one, they can be very frustrating tactics to play against, but at the end of the day, killer is just trying to win and those tactics can backfire. The one that gets me is when killers allow last surv to open gates, down them let them crawl almost to the threshold then mori. That is straight up maidenless behaviour imo, and I have an extreme dislike for killers who pull that sort of bm.
As killer, i mainly consider survivors toxic if they actively bm me, torch click, tbag on pallets. I'm also really not a fan of survivors who put the boot in when killer is having a bad time. I don't suffer this personaly now I'm better with killer and good at the counter play, but as surv when i see other survs pulling siccessul flash saves or bodyblock sabo plays on the killers first down when they've already lost 2+ gens i just think "really?" But as a rule i don't find issue with survs using flashlights, sabos, bodyblocks etc. It's tactics at the end of the day. I also have a particular dislike for survs who wait in the exit gate or hatch to tbag. They deserve every death to bloodwarden, wesker grabs, slinger iri coin plays and hatch closes that they lose to.
As I said interested to hear what people's personaly opinions are as to what constitutes toxicity in the game. Particularly when it comes to Particularly tactics such as tunneling, proxy camping and bully squad builds.
The toxic part isn't the players. The toxic part is the game's awful balance.
If the game were even remotely balanced, a huge amount of the hypocrisy within this community would disappear overnight.
What I find even more toxic, however, is that the imbalance seems to fit perfectly with all the modern techniques of engagement optimization, behavioural design, intermittent reinforcement, compulsion loops, and psychological manipulation that the industry uses to maximize retention, spending, and recurring cycles of abandonment and return.
At some point, it becomes difficult to believe that such an obvious imbalance still exists by accident, especially when it appears to benefit exactly the kinds of behaviours that a live-service game is designed to encourage.
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@Venusa said:
Warning: if a video game opinion genuinely triggers you, don’t read this thread.😂
I think Nowhere to Hide is one of the cheapest and most braindead perks in the game and makes a bunch of other killer aura perks obsolete.
Why run niche tracking perks when you can just kick a gen and instantly reveal everyone around you for that long? And if you pair it with Lethal Pursuer, it gets even dumber.
People love calling Windows of Opportunity “handholding” for survivors, but what exactly is this then?
The perk takes so much tracking work away from the killer. You just kick a gen with no cooldown and get value. And since you can kick the same gen like 8 times anyway, the limit doesn't matter. It's just “kick gen, spin camera, walk at highlighted survivor.”
- someone’s nearby = free info
- nobody’s nearby = also free info because now you know where not to waste time searching, time to kick the next gen LOL
I don’t even think it’s overpowered necessarily. I just think it’s an insanely low-IQ perk for how much value it gives you.
What’s your unpopular Dead by Daylight opinions?
I love your initiative, you're a legend.
The balance in this game is an absolute mess. It's awful playing something this wildly unbalanced, where one match feels like a walk on the beach and the next is an unplayable nightmare.
And the more time passes, the harder it is to believe this keeps happening because they don't know how to fix it. Honestly, it feels like the imbalance isn't being fixed because they don't want to fix it. In other words, commercial goals seem to matter far more than the player experience.
At this point, it's difficult not to wonder whether the imbalance itself is being used as a behavioural design tool to generate frustration, encourage spending, and maintain constant cycles of abandonment and return. Because, let's be honest, a player who shows up, buys content, gets burned out, leaves, and comes back when the next licensed chapter drops seems a lot more profitable than one who simply sticks around.
It doesn't help that we still see things that would be considered absurd in any reasonably modern game. Here, perks are still generalized across completely different mechanics, powers, and characters, as if everything worked the same way.
Meanwhile, we're still missing a proper map editor, something that should have existed years ago. There should also be a yearly contest built around it. Custom matches are another perfect example of the problem: there's very little that's actually custom about them. In terms of customization, they offer almost nothing.
Then there's the fact that one side spends 85-90% of its time filling progress bars so that the other side can actually play the game 100% of the time. Yet some people still can't see it. And of course, that remaining 10-15% had better continue being enjoyable mainly for one side.
That's why the difference between being a one-trick killer main and being a survivor main is enormous. Although, to see certain things, you need at least a few functioning neurons.
Latency favoritism is still a thing. And while the game has improved in many areas, it continues dragging around the same old baggage that prevents truly fair and balanced adjustments from ever happening.
Spirit, Nurse, and Ruin have been a cancer on this game for far too long.
And because of that, the toxicity within the community doesn't surprise me either. A large part of that rivalry is Behaviour's own harvest. When it comes to the player experience, they've spent years making questionable decisions. That said, when it comes to making money from a live-service game, they're absolute masters.
It's also interesting how a mistake on one side can completely ruin an entire match, while on the other side mistakes seem to matter less and less with every update.
Haste effects should either be nearly nonexistent or heavily restricted.
As for me, I've made up my mind. Now that I'm back, I'm not spending another cent. Because enough is enough. I'm tired of being taken for a fool.
And anyway, thanks for allowing me to express my opinion.
Because apparently, when something has been happening right in front of our eyes for years, pointing it out is still just an opinion.
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What are we supposed to think? Just another unhinged killer who kills for no reason. It’s obvious he needs a very heavy penalty in the case you mentioned, and going even further, with all the advantages he has, he’s a killer who should be at 4.4 if you don’t want to change anything else.
Otherwise, what happens is exactly what’s happening now: while the killer gets an insanely entertaining experience, the rest of the players — in this case the Survivors — neither have fun nor even want to play the match.
Behaviour doesn’t have a ######### clue how to balance the game. It took them years to put Blight at 4.4, and it’s obvious what’s going on. You can’t get blood from a stone. Show the statistics and then we’ll talk.
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@HommeBizarre said:
I want to hear what people think of Kaneki
What they like, and what they don't like.
I'll begin, his leap cooldown when not attacking is awfully low. Why on earth does he has the right to come super fast to you, get a 0.5sec cooldown and hit you for free.
Tbh, it's the only thing bugging me about him
Pues qué vamos a opinar, otro asesino desequilibrado que mata porque sí. Está claro que necesita una penalización muy fuerte en el caso que dices, y yendo aún más lejos, con todas las ventajas que tiene, es un asesino que tendría que estar a 4.4 si no quieres cambiarle nada más.
Porque si no pasa exactamente lo que está pasando ahora: mientras el killer tiene una experiencia absurdamente entretenida, el resto de jugadores — en este caso los supervivientes — ni se divierten ni quieren jugar la partida.
Behaviour no tiene ni ######### idea de cómo equilibrar el juego. Han tardado años en poner a Blight en 4.4, y está clarísimo lo que pasa. No se puede sacar de donde no hay. Que enseñen las estadísticas y entonces hablamos. -
Completely agree, the current matchmaking does not work. There is an abysmal difference in skill level in every aspect between some Survivors and others within the same lobby/match.
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Good evening.
I had been banned from the forum for some time, and although I have been away from the game for even longer, I have been reading the main thread where “abuse” is being discussed. I wanted to link the discussion from there, but from a different angle, because I believe this term is key to understanding what is happening in Dead by Daylight.
Abuse is often associated with player behavior, and people appeal to ideas such as “don’t do to others what you wouldn’t want done to you.” It is a nice and well-intentioned message, but in a well-designed game system, this kind of moral appeal should not be necessary.
The problem is not that players are abusive, but that the structure of the game itself allows, encourages, and normalizes that abuse. When a system makes it possible for one side to be systematically oppressive to the other, we are not dealing with an individual attitude problem, but with a design problem.
Abuse does not happen because players want to abuse; it happens because the system allows them to.
In DbD, something very specific is happening: structural imbalance, the generalization of perks across killers with radically different mechanics, and the accumulation of randomness make certain abusive situations not only possible, but optimal from the system’s own perspective.
For that reason, the focus should not be on how players behave within a match, but on how we have come to normalize the fact that, in a game where balance is assumed, there exists a tier list with at least five distinct categories.
This is unacceptable for the health of both the game and its players. The game is frustrating due to poor design, not because of player behavior. The solution has been explained many times, and this is not a personal opinion: it is exactly how the vast majority of competitive games have been developed and structured in practice for years.
If the game’s leadership were to reconsider and rethink the base structure, this title could grow from tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of players, perhaps more. The idea and the concept are unique; the potential is clearly there.
What is hard to understand is why settle for a design that does not scale when there is a clear opportunity to do things properly. Admitting that the initial approach was not scalable and requires a deep structural rework should not be seen as a failure, but as an opportunity.
The game could be so much more than it currently is, retaining its players while continuously attracting new ones, instead of relying on cycles of churn driven by fatigue and frustration.
Simply by applying design principles that have been proven for decades, abuse would be drastically reduced and would no longer be a structural problem for either side.
Time will tell.
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@squbax said:
Tbf when bhvr hasnt designed something as fun to play as since wesker, they have done quite cool designs as dracula and unknown but the rest has been just meh. People are starved and as annoying as it is ghoul is feeding that hunger.
Said like that, it sounds like it’s used just for fun — not because it was ridiculously unbalanced at launch and still is today. We've normalized a killer being able to injure survivors for free, having extreme mobility, and, on top of that, multiple advantages to end chases. And that’s not even counting perks and add-ons.
I get that playing with him might be fun. But generally, players don’t pick a killer because they’re entertaining — they choose them for their potential. And the more potential, usually the better. Otherwise, we wouldn’t constantly see the same killers being used out of the 39 available, or see some disappear entirely after getting nerfed. Do we still see as many Spirits after her nerf? I imagine she's not as entertaining anymore because she’s no longer as destructive and humiliating for survivors, right?
Look, if players were really playing just for fun, we wouldn’t be where we are now in every aspect of the game. Don’t get me wrong — I do think the idea of fun when it comes to killers has a lot of nuance. Sure, some players genuinely play for fun, but generally, from the killer’s perspective, winning is all that matters (or getting a 4K, if you prefer). Chases are considered disposable; if they weren’t, there would be no zoning, no camping, no tunneling, no bullying the weakest, no trading hooks.
Thank goodness they removed grab interactions — that mechanic was “super fun,” right? Fun has been completely overshadowed by the absolute need to not lose a match. If that weren’t the case, we wouldn’t see such radical changes in playstyle mid-match — and you can spot those a mile away.
Sorry to call it out like this, but if Kaneki were just as entertaining yet half as destructive, barely anyone would be using him.
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@BirdiePlays said:
The fact that killers can run four aura perks including addons is honestly a major crutch and a pain.
You're already making it so survivors can't run more than one exhausted perk, so why not give survivors this? You nerfed distortion into the ground and it gave the stealthy survivors literally no counter to any of this.
If you don't make it so they can only run one aura perk can maybe make it so they have a long cooldown or something?
You are absolutely right. The game needs a complete redesign. It has currently become nonsensical. The generalization and transfer of perks are unsustainable. Now, any killer can have auras or stealth, etc., regardless of their potential or traits.
By affecting the abilities in the same way for killers so different from one another, it’s leading the game into chaos in terms of balance, and, of course, the polarization of the community due to everything this causes. To give you a clearer picture, it’s like if perks started to appear that allowed teleporting to generators, just like Freddy does, and then we normalize it.
Since this is not the relevant thread, I won’t add anything more. I just want to say that, even though they mock you for the exhaustion perks issue, you’re absolutely right in general, and you’re not the only one who sees it.
The absurdity is obvious, and it’s clear that a generalized chaos is being normalized within the game itself. In other words, they are keeping a system that was designed for a game that no longer exists.
“I don’t know where we’re going to end up... when the foundation is broken and the results speak for themselves, the logical thing is to rebuild, not to insist.”