BigSwanginRatnuts
BigSwanginRatnuts
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@iThe1One said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/302106/winning-in-dbd-is-outside-the-fun-zone
That won't solve much, all 4 will do 1 gen, you get to them, you chase 1, 3 more still do the gen.
There's only 1 way of solving this, if more people are required to do gens faster then gens who are worked on for more than 3 seconds by 2 people at the same time will have some visual indicator on it (black tar at the bottom), kicking such a generator summons the entity to lock it for a while (maybe 20 seconds) on top of the usual effects. That way 1 person MIGHT hide to keep doing it afterwards, or they'll converge onto another generator while you chase 1 of them.
Getting all the survivors to converge on one gen is a huge benefit to the killer. You can go to that area and injure a few people, chase em off, kick the gen. And know they're gonna want to come back to it.
Also, you literally just described a worse version of discordance. Plus there already exists a couple perks to block gens, giving killers a way to just block gens by kicking it sounds like a strong perk not a base-kit ability.
Getting survivors to play within the same general area of eachother is beneficial to the killer and makes good teamplay more important for survivors. While also leaving the option open to break off and go do a safer gen by yourself, albeit more slowly.
The problem is that right now, breaking off from the group and doing a safe gen is the fastest way to rush gens as well. Fast, and safe.
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2721274#Comment_2721274
Oh! oh! We can just declare something is not valid? Then I declare doing gens too fast is not valid and not fun!
As per Survivors complaining; I said it, so it's now the rules! You have to switch to a new gen every 15% or you're gen-camping and the match ends too fast and I don't have fun! Oh, and it's 'not valid', because that's apparently a legitimate argument!
So stop gen camping! 🤡
So you have fun sitting on a Gen and hitting skillchecks all match? I think you might be the first person I've heard say that.
Not sure why you latched onto "valid" I was literally quoting the devs and proxy camping is literally encouraged by the devs and the perks and killers they've made.
I get that survivors strat to win is to rush gens, obviously. But idk, don't you think it'd be more fun to have killers camp less and try to go stop gens more? The reason that doesn't happen is because killers know protecting gens is often pointless with how fast they can be done. Especially the first 3. Since all survivors split up and just blast through em when you take the first chase. So you might as well just tunnel and camp hooks, it's what works for Killer. It's boring as ######### but that's how you deal with Gen rushing SWFs.
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@KateMain86 said:
If you think face camping is a valid play and fun then you're literally part of the problem as to why many people complain about this game. Its not a valid play and it is not fun. It literally ruins the game for survivors and no the rest of the team should not be expected to finish the rest of the gens while the camped survivor takes one for the team. The killer should be severely punished for doing this. Face camping should screw the killer over so much that it discourages them from doing it. If that doesn't stop people from doing it, then recognize it as disrupting normal game play and start giving account penalties for it. I think if toxic killers had a nice 24 hour and stacking penalty for face camping you'd probably see a lot less of it.
You're totally just gonna write off all proxy camping? There are plenty of perks and killers that work around hooks. It's a strategy and even the devs have expressed this.
I'm sorry but you're tripping if you think I'm not gonna leave a portal, or Victor, or traps near my hooked survivor. You think I'm not gonna hover around the survivor hooked in the middle of 3 gens while they're nearly at the next hook state? Or when I hear the unhook, I should just let them heal at hook and not Oni rush back over to the hook and punish the unhook.
Killers hooks are a part of the game that let's them play strategically around the fact that this survivor can't do anything until someone comes for them. Removing their ability to use that or give them some penalty for doing so would suck. Hard-core facecamping the first hook just to troll or BM is #########, but camping hooks in general is a valid strategy. The problem is that currently it's also the only strategy that reliably wins games because other playstyles like going after multiple hooks and chases costs too much time and is an easy way to 1-0k.
Punishing an entire stratagem and removing killer agency to capitalize on their hooks seems like overkill to a problem that could likely be fixed through incentivizing better more enjoyable play instead.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2719126#Comment_2719126
This doesn't stop Killers bring survivors to hooks. It's what happens to a survivor after they are hooked.
Once a survivor is hooked, they are teleported to a random hook away from the Killer.
In a perfect world, facecamping wouldn't be a problem. However, facecamping has become such a viable option that players are stopping playing the game because of it. It also means that Killers who don't facecamping are also being punished because gen speeds are adjusted for facecamping, which is one of the most efficient tactics a killer can currently use.
You remove facecamping, gen speeds can be slowed down.
It's worse than I even gave it credit for then. This would be an extremely bad change and make killer much more miserable to play. Facecamping is something killers elect to do because it slows gens down by forcing people to come play at your hook.
Removing the killers ability to control their hooks is an awful idea and only serves to make Killers across the board weaker, and prevent the use of a ton of perks and map control through hooks.
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Not fair at all. You clearly don't play bubba and probably just got done being hard-camped by one.
It's a lame playstyle, but punishing unhooks and using hooks as bait is bubbas power. Reducing chainsaw noise to 32 does absolutely nothing (that's literally his terror radius), and increasing his chainsaw speed would make him OP.
BHVR does need to work on how prevalent face-camping has become, but nerfing bubba so that he can't even proxy camp or punish an unhook isnt the fix.
Disable his chainsaw by hooks so survivors can just use them as safe zones, would be awful.
Giving unhook chainsaw immunity would disable him from ever hitting multiple survivors with his chainsaw.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2720312#Comment_2720312
Yes? I know??? that's why my other comments broke down what I think should be done. I believe killers hexes should start in the match lit up. But if snuffed out can be relit on totems, or the killer that doesn't run hexes can destroy the totems in order to prevent boons from being placed.
Boons should have unlock requirements to be able to re-place them in the match once they've been snuffed out once.
I don't agree with relighting hexes. That's something that could maybe be a perk. But as it stands killers already have powers to protect their totems (albeit its difficult now with how prevalent boons are in survivor perk meta)
But if a killer is really invested in keeping their hexes up they could run Undying, Thrill of the Hunt, Haunted Ground. There exists plenty perks to punish survivors and protect totems as it stands.
Boons just need to be finite. Hexes don't need to be infinite.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2720276#Comment_2720276
there def needs to be a change to CoH specifically. I don't find the other two nearly as powerful. Because the perk is already about healing, it should be unlocked via healing. Specifically, that the character needs to heal the health state of themselves or another survivor for each additional use, AFTER its been snuffed out. That sounds easy in theory, but a double edged sword, because CoH itself allowed everyone to heal themselves. So theoretically, there may be no active injuries right after the killer has snuffed it. Or is someone supposed to try to remain injured and risk getting downed to let them heal?
Even worse if multiple people are trying to run CoH in a match, they'd all be fighting over chasing an injured person around to get their own CoH going instead of working gens lol
I agree CoH is the most oppressive. Though I think just for consistency in game design they should make all the boons require tokens. Just make the tokens easier to generate for the others. Maybe have shadowstep generate tokens for remaining undetected in killers terror radius. And exponential generate tokens when survivors are downed or something.
Also I think they should all start with 1 token to keep the gameplay of setting up a boon preemptive to a chase, with the risk the killer will snuff it before you can get worth out of it.
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Massive nerf. Gen speeds are bad but not THAT bad. You're swinging a bat at balance, completely reworking regression and Gen kicking.
Survivors should just repair slower individually. Makes 0 sense that the fastest way to do the gens is also the safest, splitting up and working on multiple gens. Lower repair speed baseline, and change the -15% per additional survivor on a Gen to +15%. Gen rushing should require survivors to push the same gen, not scatter all over the map and work on em individually.
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Boons just shouldn't be infinite, plain and simple. Whether that means they add a cooldown, or tokens, or something for using totems, doesn't matter they need to make boons a finite resource the killer can actually deny.
If you snuff a boon, they just make another. Not really worth killers time unless they just happen to hear it or see it and it's not too out of the way.
I think if you needed to generate and spend some sort of token to create a boon as survivor it would be balanced. At the very least you're costing survivors a token and eventually they'll run out of boons especially if they aren't generating tokens.
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Gen speeds should be tweaked. Should go slower with only one survivor on a Gen, and faster with more. Currently there's a -15% to progression for survivors working on the same Gen.
Doesn't make sense. Splitting up to do gens is the safest strategy for survivors, it spreads the killers pressure thin. And yet somehow they've also designed it so that splitting gens is also the most efficient way to do them. This makes it incredibly hard for killers to exert enough pressure through chasing, forcing them to tunnel kills, hover a 3-gen, and camp hooks.
Survivors should have to coordinate and attack the same Gen together if they want to rush gens. This makes Gen rushing risky, but still viable, and allows the killer to go stop and protect gens. Not to mention it reduces the effective area a killer has to pressure to slow the game down, and if they do split up on gens then the gens should go slower anyways.
Not to mention it rewards good survivor teamwork, while also making it easier for a killer to punish and play around. Leaving the hook is a more promising endeavor if you know you're likely to find the other survivors grouped on the same Gen.
It'd likely also mean that messing up (taking longer than 30 seconds to down) on an early chase likely wouldn't cost you 2-3 gens anymore. Nearly 50% survivor objective for less than 10% of your own, its what forces you to camp as a killer.
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If a chase lasts longer than 30 seconds you lose a Gen. If you leave that chase to go pursue another or try and stop gens it costs you even more. This is especially true as far as the first 3 gens are concerned, since the game likes to just spawn survivors on top of gens.
Survivors complain about exposed or getting downed super fast in chases all the time, but also all agree being chased is the most fun part of the game. But for a lot of killers you have to commit to a chase, and end it in less than 30 seconds. And if it goes longer than 30 than your best option is now to camp as you hear 2-3 gens pop. Leaving the hook that just cost you all those gens only serves to solidify your disadvantage.
So pick. Do you want longer chases, or quicker ones? Because as far as I've seen survivors really hate going down quickly in chases and constantly ask for nerfs to anything that enables killers to end chases fast or before they even start. Because if you want longer chases then it means gens are gonna have to slow down somehow. Or give killers more tools to protect them.
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Just because it works for pyramid head doesn't mean it works for every killer. Plus even a smart pyramid head will often choose to pick up and hook in an area he wants to be in and patrol (near his 3 Gen or near loops he's already filled with his trail)
The fix to hook camping will be something much more complicated than just teleporting survivors to randomly generated hooks. That's not to mention how many perks you'd be killing on both survivors and killers. The game is designed around picking up survivors and bringing them to a hook, it'd be a massive overhaul to just remove that from the game.
Starstruck, Mad-git, iron grasp, monstrous shrines (and basement hooks in general), Decisive strike, flip-flop, power struggle, flashlights, boil over etc. Just to name some of the perks that would die. This would hurt more killers than it would help actually. Since proxy camping and playing around your hook is often a valid killer strategy, especially with certain killers abilities. And it's been said as well, but often times pyramidheads cage actually spawns right near another survivor/gen/exit.
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@BigSwanginRatnuts said:
The rise in hook camping is an issue bred from Gen speed. It's simple. There's no point in going out of my way to go find a chase when I can just make one come to me. With how fast gens go, I am actively losing the match anytime I'm not in a chase or securing a kill on hook.
Sure I could go out and look for a chase, maybe chase someone off a Gen, but strategically it doesn't make much sense. Hook states go about the same speed as a Gen could be done, so I know that if I stay by a survivor on hook I'm either getting a hook state or someone is going to leave their Gen and come to me to give me a chase. This becomes even more of a no-brainer if 2 survivors are injured, or if I have some ability to expose or 1 hit healthy survivors.
I'd leave the hook and patrol gens if I felt like I had a chance at protecting them. But they go so fast there's no point. It's a gamble to go out and look for chases, whereas a hook is guaranteed value.
Tl;Dr We all want more chases. It's the most fun part of the game for both sides. So the key to making them happen more is to incentivise killers to pursue them more. Punishing camping will not make it happen less, and will only serve to make a lot of killers and perk builds a lot worse and give killers even less options in a match.
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The rise in hook camping is an issue bred from Gen speed. It's simple. There's no point in going out of my way to go find a chase when I can just make one come to me. With how fast gens go, I am actively losing the match anytime I'm not in a chase or securing a kill on hook.
Sure I could go out and look for a chase, maybe chase someone off a Gen, but strategically it doesn't make much sense. Hook states go about the same speed as a Gen could be done, so I know that if I stay by a survivor on hook I'm either getting a hook state or someone is going to leave their Gen and come to me to give me a chase. This becomes even more of a no-brainer if 2 survivors are injured, or if I have some ability to expose or 1 hit healthy survivors.
I'd leave the hook and patrol gens if I felt like I had a chance at protecting them. But they go so fast there's no point. It's a gamble to go out and look for chases, whereas a hook is guaranteed value.
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What they need to do is get better anti-cheat and crack down on the more recent influx of hackers. The game is nigh unplayable for any high rank killer looking to get fair matches. All cheaters are at top ranks because they cheated to get there, so if you're good at killer and get to that rank expect nearly half your games to have atleast 1 cheater in it. Forced to wait for reset, and all the cheaters to climb out of ash after a day or two, to even get any good matches as killer at this point. Even that doesn't help with MMR tho, even at ash I just continue getting red ranks using cheats and holding games hostage. And reporting does nothing, it's just there to make you think you can do something about it, but everyone knows it takes months for a ban to MAYBE happen. And then that person just makes a new account and hops back on.
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No one wants easy 4ks. But it is true that playing killer is such an immense sweat fest right nby.
Tbh the main issue is game length and by association gens. There's not enough time you can spare for making any mistakes as killer, especially with everyone running dead hard to extend chases with hit validation bs. I'd like to enjoy my chases and looping, but I really can't if I want to win. I need to get a down and I need to get it like yesterday, that means using exposed to circumvent DH, or camping a hook to get more out of the long chase I just took.
I'm fine with long chases, I'm fine with mind games and survivors being able to juke and outplay me obviously. The issue is that I'm rapidly losing gens at all times as killer and don't have the time to enjoy a good chase or enjoy looking for hiding survivors. I don't have the time to look for survivors, I don't have time to kick gens. Anyone hiding can just stay hidden, I don't have time to find you, I don't have time to chase you. I need this guy on hook to die yesterday so I can slow gen speed and survivors options by getting rid of someone ASAP, or at the very least make my next chase come to me instead of me trying to go them.
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The solution to hook camping is most definitely not to punish the killers more for doing it. Killers camp hooks right now because leaving a hook is giving survivors a gift in the current meta, with how fast gens go, how frequent SWFs are, and how abundant healing is. Often times it's just in your best interest as killer to force survivors to come to you, or guarantee a kill rather than go out and risk trying to find and win another chase quickly.
And let's not forget that proxy camping, and patrolling your hooks to stop saves or force trades is a valid way to play. Face-camping is annoying and #########, but I think punishing killers for being near their hooks hurts a lot of killers and killer perks based around playing near the hooks.
BHVR needs to make changes to hooking, gens, and kills in DBD as a whole. They have to find out how to make Killers want to go find more chases, get more hooks, and protect their gens.
I think both sides want more chases, and survivors enjoy playing as a team on comms more than solo. So tbh, and this might sound crazy, but why not just highlight which Gen has the most progress whenever a killer hooks someone? Atleast then once the killer hooks someone they have some instant information on where the survivors are and what Gen they're currently pushing for. Just knowing you have an idea of where the other survivors are and what Gen you need to stop would be enough to make a lot of killers leave hook to go protect gens and pursue more chases after getting hooks. Also hooks would just be more valuable overall, the need to tunnel and camp to kill goes down when you give the killer information they can use to slow the gens.
Just an idea. I know there's issues with it. But I know that the main problem with hook camping comes from killers feeling the pressure from gens and knowing how much time finding and taking a new chase is going to cost them as gens pop. While knowing at the very least if they stay by a hook someone will have to leave their Gen to come to the rescue, and trade or get chased.
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They either have to nerf dead hard or fix the fake hits.
So many people get hit, but then miraculously dead hard out of it, it's killed my desire to play the game. Everyone effectively has 3 health states and the game is really not balanced for it.
I've always played as if everyone had DH and have always kept track of people who clearly don't have DH. I've always played around DH as best I could. But these days it doesn't matter. Auto-dead hard and just latency shenanigans have made it to where basically anyone can just choose to dead hard instead of going down with almost nothing I can do about it besides eat the dead hard and then have to tunnel that person otherwise they'll simply get DH back and do it again.
Everyone runs DH now, it's basically a mandatory perk for any survivor build now. I'm really hoping BHVR can figure something out. Either fix the issues with people getting DH for free from hacks or latency, or nerf it. I didn't have much issue with DH in the past, but recently it's become incredibly annoying to try and deal with.
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For Killer:
-Dead Hard (obviously)
-Iron Will
-Borrowed Time
For Survivor:
-Ruin (I suck at finding totems)
-NOED (because so many killers use it to camp hooks while gens get finished so they can use it)
-Rancor (because you can just get unlucky and die)
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@Marc_123 said:
Camping is not a real problem. It is Bubbas thing.
There are 25 other killers with other things.
Bubba is good at camping - everybody knows it, so no secret. You can adjust or maybe die.
You don´t play only against Bubbas.
The exact same argument could be made on some special surv perks. When you see them as killer you also have to adapt or maybe loose.
While I agree making hook trades and patrolling hooks are how certain killers and builds are played (demogorgon, twins, bubba, Myers to name a few) claiming that face-camping is not an issue is totally wrong.
Face-camping hooks isn't fun or interesting for either side. Yet as a killer I often feel forced to do it, and as survivor I often feel helpless against it and forced to bring BT and Decisive to counter.
Chases are fun, but getting downs in chases mean nothing compared to securing a death on hook. And that's where the problem lies. Too often it's just a better idea as killer to camp a hook to secure a kill than it is to let someone get away and easily heal so you have to chase them again.
Idk how to fix it, killers should definitely still be able to use proxy camping or force hook trades. But at the same time it shouldn't feel like the main way the game is played now. Neither side enjoys it. I'd much rather leave hook to patrol and chase the other survivors, I just know that I am often giving survivors an advantage by doing so.
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I'm a killer main (so yes there's some unavoidable bias here) who's been playing less and less recently because personally in order to get a decent 2k I feel like I have to sweat incredibly hard and it's often very stressful.
I think there's problems on both sides, and I definitely have really annoying matches against basement campers etc. as survivor. But in general I think the game is currently skewed a bit too much towards survivors, in the following ways:
-STRETCHED RES low graphics max brightness, and worse, full on hackers (sometimes blatant, more often times subtle) are becoming very common especially as you climb in rank
-DEAD HARD, I'm tired of seeing it, I'm tired of hitting someone but then getting that desynced survivor client dead hard where they don't actually get hit (also the auto-dead hard is a thing as well) and honestly I don't want to HAVE to bring dead hard as survivor either.
-GEN SPEEDS, too often I get a good fun chase, but it's costing me majorly in terms of gens. It's not in my interest to entertain any chase unless it's one I can end VERY quickly. If I mess up on a loop early on it's likely gonna cost me 3 gens to pursue that down. Which is unfortunate because both survivors and killers enjoy chases as the most exciting part of the game. I think multi-tasking and chasing multiple survivors around gens you don't want to finish is a killer skill you should have to use, but it seems as though the game is SO reliant on it that I can't pursue
-STALE PERK META for both sides. Handful of strong perks that you see every game. Moreso on survivors since killer choice often dictates perk build obviously. Although hook camping builds are becoming very common as well as its a way to guarantee kills (which is also why everyone is running BT nowadays)
-giant maps with ridiculously strong structures that make it unfeasible for me to even attempt to protect and patrol gens as killer outside of maybe patrolling a potential 3gen also unlucky tile/pallet spawns that can often make an entire area of the map a safe zone for survivors who know how to use the tiles.
I'd like to just add that I don't agree with a lot of other killers who complain about comms or SWF. I like survivors who play as a team and communicate, and it's the most enjoyable way to play survivor. The problem therein lies with the game not being totally designed with this in mind. Also it's fruitless to complain about SWF on comms, it will always be around.
I think it's a double-edged sword that survivor is becoming more enjoyable to play and giving us a larger survivor pool and faster que times. Obviously survivor should be fun to play, and playing as a team is fun and good teamwork should be rewarded. It just seems to me that it's coming at the cost of making killer more and more frustrating to play.
I'm not sure how to fix the games problems and balance, but I know this much. The game cannot be improved by adding MORE band-aid perks to try and address the overall games health. There needs to be bigger changes similar to when they implemented the collapse or reworked tiles/maps. And I think a good place to start would be addressing gens and alternative survivor objectives as a whole (they kinda flirted with the idea with the more recent totem perks). Also doing a balance pass over the entire perk pool (on both sides) would definitely do a lot of good for diversifying builds.
I hope I dont come off too much like a whiney killer who needs to just git gud or like I'm complaining that I don't get a 4k every match. My issues really aren't with "win" rate. Matches should be enjoyable for both sides, with wins and losses for both.
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Demogorgon. Bubba. Nemesis. Personally I like demo, smart survivors will just hug vaults against Bubba. And nemesis requires you to get to stage 2 before you can destroy loops.
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@PlayTwink said:
That's pretty ez.
When you play as Victor, Charlotte could simply be played by Ai than just simply staying like a statue and vice versa.
When Victor downs the survivor, player instantly returns to Charlotte and have a chance to hook their prey, while Victor Ai could in the mean time pressure other survivors.
Ai will never go hunt the same survivor in the meantime like player.
I've heard this idea and while it sounds neat I'd prefer if Charlotte and Victor just stay where I left them. I use Charlotte to block doorways and loops for map control, and I use Victor as a lookout for gens I want to keep protected or slugged survivors. Plus I've already seen how the AI plays with Nemesis zombies and how frustrating they can be.
Honestly all the twins really need is faster swap times. Waking up as Charlotte feels so clunky. Also I personally think Victor should apply exhaust to survivors without an add-on.
The twins aren't in an awful place, it's just the game as a whole is in a state currently where if you aren't playing a top-tier killer with a meta build you're gonna have a lot of games where a 4k is nearly impossible without playing perfectly, and even then it might not be doable.