Patiencehero
Patiencehero
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No argument here - solo queue survivors have it fairly rough. It's why while I personally do feel devs are survivor biased (mostly due to the reaction time to survivor problems vs. killer problems), I also recognize that non-swf also gets a raw deal, and the biggest change I lobby for is just putting voice chat in the game and balancing around it.
Killers aren't the only ones getting the short end of the stick when it comes to wishy-washy balance.
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@TheStabbiNAngeL said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1908371#Comment_1908371
I've seen some pretty bad PC players before we go pointing the whole useless finger around,there are great console survivor's on PS4 I've been facing them for 4 year's. PC have an advantage over console yes but skills vs skill always broil down to it in the end plus PC player's cheat console player's do it to.
Oh no, that absolutely wasn't what I meant by that - I meant that due to the limitations, if someone's on console, and their team loses, they're generally going to bear the brunt of the blame regardless of skill level. Even if the Console player was the best one out of the group, toxic players are generally going to scapegoat them. There's apparently a DBD streamer who does it CONSTANTLY.
That being said, a good survivor on console would still likely perform better on PC. But the only one I'm gonna point the finger at for that is the devs for not optimizing it better to be as even as possible.
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It's not really a short and sweet Answer: Console has significant disadvantages compared to PC. Nurse is practically unusable due to the low sensitivity and accuracy of turns from my understanding, 15-30fps average, and turns on survivor are similarly inaccurate, meaning that even an SWF is going to lose if they get matched against a PC nurse or blight - they can't dodge or react with the same accuracy as PC survivors.
In addition, PC's playerbase is notably more toxic, due to A) how long its been around, and B) Endgame chat being there, so salt gets traded, tempers flare, and the team that lost the last game and was treated like garbage in endgame chat puts their tryhard pants on, only to get matched with....console newbies, where they'll camp/tunnel/genrush/teabag/key swap in order to get some measure of perceived revenge.
Combination of the game being limited heavily on one platform compared to another, and the inherent toxic nature of the game's playerbase. So PC players hate console because they're 'useless teammates', and Console players hate PC because they frequently run into unfair matchups that also involve the opposite group using the most frustrating strategies in existence.
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@xEcoLog1cDuk3Xx said:
It's plain and simple.
You either delete SWF which will fix many of the game's issues or make it to where the more people in your group, the slower you do certain actions.
There's also just the option of adding voice chat by default, and then just balancing everything with that in mind. Obviously, there'd need to be a mute system so players could just silence rage kiddies, but at the very least that would mean all Survivors are presumed to have equal footing on information availability.
It's easy to blame SWF when you've just been bullied as killer. I fully understand that. But taking the time to cool down and analyze objectively outside of the game environment, I legitimately have come to the conclusion that Swiff really isn't the problem with DBD in the grand scheme - the 'have your cake and eat it too' of balancing for solo while leaving it in is.
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Can't say I'm a fan of passives. I'm more for updating powers to be more complex and interesting, since creative use and mastery of powers is one of the little joys of Killer. Adding passive power to their kit would just be counterintuitive for that purpose, and be generally uninteresting (One of the reasons I'm for reworking Freddy's addons - the passive ones just feel dull).
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@ASpazNamedSteve said:
I get that it aims to make you 'feel' like you're actually struggling to hold on, but it's honestly just obnoxious with how long you have to struggle for.
No one wants to spam a button for an entire minute.
I don't even think it's successful in feeling like a struggle to hold on though. It's so binary and repetitive that most of the time people just zone out until they're rescued - almost the opposite of intensity.
I think several modest variant QTEs (Make a circle with the mouse, short Simon says sequence, timed button presses) would make it feel like more of a focused, driven struggle, and would also make it less outright physically painful.
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@Beelzeboop said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1905064#Comment_1905064
I don't know. I would like to play up the daylight horror from the original film, though.
Maybe a stance system of sorts, switching between a "Searching" stance, where he's undetectable (he comes straight outa nowhere in the movie) but slightly slower, and a "Chasing" stance, where he's faster, has a one hit down, and can break pallets with basic attacks, but is using his fully revved chainsaw, which is slow to use and audible from half the map away.
Picture this: You're doing gens with your bud, when suddenly BBBBBRRRRVVVVV!!!!!!!! You run away, you don't look back, but you know he's there. The chainsaw fades as you make it to relative safety, but suddenly, it stops. You know what's happened. Your friend is down. You'll have to go back and find him. You search, praying you don't hear- BBBBBRRRRVVVVV!!!!!!!! BBQ and Chili. After a brief chase, you escape. You never found your friend.
That's just off the top of my head. If I actually had to code it in I would take at least a week to think hard about what to do with this guy. It would have to have some sort of stealth-adjacent ability, as tribute to the fact that they never show the violence as it happens on screen.
He's important in the history of horror, especially slasher films. He deserves better.
He really does.
Can I just say how much I love this idea? I know it's an off-the-cuff one and likely would need fine tuning, but my god, he sounds so much more fun to play in this form, both against and as. It's an S-tier according to my idea of a good killer - one who has the potential to legitimately spook and create moments of excitement.
I think people misconstrue what Killer mains want out of our Killers, so it's just really nice to see someone else who gets my mentality that the power role we want as killer isn't "Guaranteed to 3k against similarly matched survivors and shut down loops", but "Power fantasy and Atmosphere". It's why I love Mikey so much despite his middle-of-the pack balance - because you FEEL like Michael Myers (though my only change to facilitate this further would be an addon that makes him undetectable while stalking at the cost of stopping movement or something) - going from being a stalking, faceless shape to a unstoppable juggernaut running down his prey. Games with him escalate and have a lot of surprise ambushes, and it just FEELS good.
I get that people are competitive by nature, but it's easy to forget the emotional payoff of just being a threat, getting a legitimate scare, or being able to legitimately get into the role of a horror movie villain, hence why my entire set of changes was about behavior improvement and binary balance - so the game can focus on the good stuff for both parties.
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I just take my headphones off and play FGO. They wanna add even more time to complain about for their queue, it's their call. I'mma do 1-2 mat farms and get to my instaqueue.
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My actions would be, in order:
1 - Voice chat is now a standard feature for survivors. Can be turned off in options.
2 - Balance all perks/powers on both sides with step 1 in mind.
3 - Remaining in front of a hook for more than 10s while not in a chase increases the speed of generators for survivors by an escalating amount. (Anti - Face Camp)
4 - Hooked teammates can now cancel being unhooked if killer is within a small distance. (Anti - Teammate farming)
5 - If survivors are in gate during EGC without leaving for more than 8s, they become exposed. Leaving gate resets this.(Anti - Gate BMing)
6 - Karma system. DC'ers/Hook Suiciders/Face Campers/4 slug bleedout killers/etc etc get karma penalties for unsporting behaviors - too low of karma goes to the salt mines where they get matched against similar karma. Can be exited by maintaining good karma scores for 3 games.
First two are to make game balance less wishy-washy and more approachable in a binary fashion. Rest are jerkass fumigation.
And Finally:
Moris are basekit for killers - useable only once per round, on either the last survivor remaining, or on any survivor who has reached Hook=death state. Last survivor may attempt to escape out of the Mori same as they would attempt to jump off hook (so no guaranteed death cheese on a survivor who has not been hooked yet), short stun to killer if successful. Keeps the cool animation and thematics, without moris being a gameplay advantage.
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I'll actually agree on this, even if I don't play survivor much. Button mash QTEs guaranteed 3 times a match is a good way to get Carpal tunnel. There's a reason most games shake the QTEs up with different motions nowadays.
Autofight is a more boring option than adding checks like simon says or make a circle with the mouse, but it's still a better one than current.
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Going off of the tier list model alone for balance is always a terrible idea. It promotes the idea that a killer at the top of the list is broken, rather than just being the most effective, which aren't really the same thing. And balancing otherwise leads to the same nerf-buff-nerf-rework-nerf nightmare circle League of Legends has been dealing with for ages.
If anything I feel like Blight is kind of around the general balance curve killers should be at - lower-high/upper-mid tier. He's like a more moderate nurse - decent skill ceiling but still easier to learn, and not as oppressive when played by an experienced player.
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@TauNkosi said:
I always let the last person escape as a congratulations for being last survivor.
Same here. The only reason I break this rule is either A) You were Teabagging and being a dick, or B) You deliberately farmed your teammates/unhooked directly in front of me with no intention of protecting them, therefore BARE THY NECK, THOU HAST EARNED THY PUNISHMENT.
Though in the latter scenario what I try to do is slug both, get the jerk on the hook, then deliberately pick the first survivor up and let them break free. F*CK YOU, COWBOY!
Side note to OP: The sentiment is greatly appreciated - I pride myself on trying to create an experience for survivors. I don't even care if I get a single sacrifice if they play along. My favorite activities are waiting around the corner for a survivor as Mirror Myers just to make them jump out of their chair, charging blindly around corners with blight in the hopes I can spook an unsuspecting survivor, packing unlimited tier 3 Myers just so I can chase survivors without hitting them, just using the THREAT of the instadown to create excitement.
What I usually get for my troubles is 3 gens popped 1:15 into the match, flashlight clicks, butt dancing in the end gate or finding me to 360 around me and teabag when I just accept they're not interested in my spookhouse and AFK. Naturally all followed by colorful language in the endgame chat.
I quit in 2017 over the toxicity and just overall non-fun approach to gameplay in 2017. Came back a week ago and had a few fun games, then the SWF matching started and I'm just....already so tired. Two days now I've logged in, queued up, and just thought.."Nah. Think I'll duolingo instead."
But the cat helps a bit. So thanks.
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@Phasmamain said:
Asymmetrical games are unbalanced by their very nature. At any point either survivor or killer will be stronger
Unfortunately this really. I still play DBD occasionally because I bought it back in the day, but Asymmetrical is kind of a red flag when perusing games. It's just not a model that can work in the age of feedback-based balancing. When one playerbase is so large it makes up most of the bottom line, the other will usually suffer until numbers stop dropping, in which case knee-jerk changes that swing things too far the other way can happen.
And I'm not saying that because I have a grudge with DBD - Identity V showed similar problems, and I think it just comes down to Asymmetry being incompatible with competitive human nature. I think people unfortunately realize that the first time they play an Asymmetrical, which is part of the reason Deathgarden flopped. Hard to pitch that game experience twice.
I've just come to feel Asymmetrical multiplayer is one of those concepts that works well on paper and nowhere else.
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@Hex_UrbanEvasion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1891999#Comment_1891999
Bellend, I like that. Funny term.
Embrace the toxicity... not a bad mentality. I try, usually. I tend to prefer making friends with other players over pissing them off because it's a small server and I see them a lot, but it also means I see the rotten ones a lot too. We all recognize each other at this point.
Yeah, it’s an unfortunate byproduct of anonymity combined with the competitiveness of online gaming and the popularity of Troll culture. Some people just don’t lose the impulse to burn ants with a magnifying glass as they grow up, and this is just how it manifests: those three factors just melt into a soufflé of pure awful.
But yeah, nowadays I just anticipate being bullied and correct my course in game if I know it’s happening. Collect what BP I can get, wait in a corner for them to leave. If they decide to try and drag it out so they can teabag/jump around me, that’s what my phone and FGO are for.
As a survivor though I understand your position is different: if you’re being camped you have the option of either suiciding on hook to just get it over with and move to a better match, or to struggle and drag it out so your team can escape while denying the killer BP.
Whichever choice you make though, it’s correct. You don’t owe anyone your misery. In that situation just gotta do what’s better for you.
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Long story short: first match was as Myers, as he was the reason I bought the game. I sucked, only got 1 person to 3rd hook state and a couple of hits on everyone else. Didn’t get to Tier 3 until just before gate opened.
Apologized in chat for sucking, and the first guy I’d gotten a hit on while still in Tier 1 said I was a good killer, and had made him jump out of his chair the way I rounded the corner to the gen (Meat packing plant) and got him before he saw me.
That one guy is the entire reason I play for scares over sacrifices and main Mirror Myers. Nothing is more satisfying than being told I legitimately scared somebody.
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Sorry to hear about that, pal. Killer main here, but I prefer getting scares and surprises to actually winning (Jumpscsre Myers squad roll UP!). Sadly, more often than not I get SWFs who have little interest in my spookhouse, and the result is getting Gen rushed in 4 minutes, teabagged, and having the game dragged out by the exit gates, followed by laughter and colorful language about my mother in endgame chat.
I presume the reason some killers do what they do to you is the same reason SWFs do what they do to me: get a rise out of us. Or, perhaps they’re propagating the cycle because someone was a bellend to them, and they want a little power back.
Either way though, all I can say is chin up, and go into matches with the Samurai mentality: embrace death (or in this case, toxicity). It’ll help you stomach the lame games better and relish the sporting ones that much more. Neither of our Nemesi are really breaking any rules, so it’s really all we can do.
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SWF is ‘broken’ more or less due to a wishy-washy balance philosophy. They absolutely do NOT want to remove the ability for survivors to queue as a group with voice comms, but also insist on balancing the game for the solo survivor.
What this has led to is a situation in which a killer vs solo survivors of the same rank resulted in a balanced experience, but an average killer against an swf of the same rank would usually smashed and bullied, and any tools that could alleviate that were naturally too strong against solos, necessitating nerfs.
What THAT led to is a drop in killer players, which necessitated tweaks to matchmaking to ensure wait times aren’t too long. So now a rank 17 solo survivor is also potentially at risk of not having a lot of fun, because they may be getting tossed into a match against a rank 12 killer to balance out the rank 1 and potentially their 2 friends.
So more or less it’s not actually SWF that’s broken, but rather the conflicting balance goals and not taking the steps to address them. IE: just adding voice comms to the game for survivors, and balancing the game with that factor in mind.
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@xenotimebong said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1884182#Comment_1884182
Survivors in a SWF communicate. There’s no way to unring that bell. It isn’t limited to communicating about the killer, but here are some examples of things SWF can communicate that solos can’t:
- The killer (“It’s a Ghostface, be careful”)
- The killer’s perks (“They beelined right to me healing, they probably have Nurse’s”)
- The killer’s add ons (“That Hag trap didn’t notify me so she has Rusty Shackles”)
- Totems (“There’s a lit totem in shack” / “I’ve cleansed four dulls so only one left”)
- Survivor perks (“I have Adrenaline so finish the gen before you rescue me” / “I don’t have BT but you do, you go for the rescue”)
- Hook states (“I’m on death hook, try to take hits for me”)
- Survivor items (“I have a medkit with full charges, do the gen” / “My flashlight is depleted so I can’t save you”)
- Map layout and pallets (“Shack pallet is gone” / “This side of the map is a dead zone, don’t run here”)
- Where they’re being chased (“Being chased around shack”)
- Which gens are being worked on (“Doing the gen in the main building”)
- Gate progress (“The gate on the left is 99d”)
- The killer’s playstyle (“He doesn’t mindgame at all and just holds W” / “He’s camping around the corner so do gens”)
Etc. etc. etc. I’m sure you get my point.
How could the devs possibly change this? They’d have to completely rework the game from the ground up. While you’re right that considering how information sharing affects killers is important (and they do seem to be doing this more), it’s impossible for them to redesign enough existing gameplay elements so that effective communication makes no difference.
That’s why people talk about giving solos more information or an easier means of sharing information. Because then survivors are on more of an even playing field, and from there they can buff killers further. If solos were able to communicate like SWFs they may not have nerfed Undying, for example, because it’s less of an issue for a SWF. And they can buff every killer who isn’t Freddy or Nurse or Spirit.
I've been saying for years that they just need to add ingame voice chat so every group of survivors has the same capability for coordination.
Asymmetrical games either be balanced for group coordination or balanced for solo queue and still be fun for both sides. You cannot do both, because the 'fun for both sides' part is what goes out the window instead in that scenario.
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If I'm going to wager a guess, you're likely running into killers who've had a bad game, or are just dicks.
Or, if they're red rank - they're playing sweaty because it's the only way you CAN play in red ranks.
It's something I struggle with as well - at times you feel so frustrated with getting flamed and mocked in chat by SWFs that you decide to go as sweaty and toxic as you can next game - or WANT to, in my case. I make it a point to take a 10 minute break and watch funny videos to get out of that mindset.
Though since it's specifically HUNTRESS you're mentioning, that makes me wonder if this is "The Rift ruins everything" striking again, with some hyper-specific sacrifice requirement.
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Ironically, I've been pretty lucky the past couple days, but DID get one SWF yesterday that was blatantly trolling and BMing. They knocked out 3 gens at a time, dropped a pallet on me and started teabagging, then when I downed that one and gave her a smack for BMing, her friends flashlight clicked and teabagged while one of them unhooked her through bodyblock.
So, I tunneled the hell out of her, put her into second hook, camped her until there was a sliver left, then pretended to go off somewhere and let her get unhooked.
Got the usual "Hahahaha" "Get #########" "u suck #########" "enjoy your missing mori, #########", and of course, the N word. Told them to enjoy their queue, and responded to their further abuse with "cry more". "lawl why would we cry, we escaped".
Final thing I said was "You guys are awful aggressive for not being mad. I believe perhaps you should see a doctor for that." Don't know if they saw it or not.
What they don't know is I was laughing the entire time. I never intended to get a sacrifice - I LITERALLY tunneled the one to near death just to make them mad, so they could feel the shoe on the other foot.
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@Raccoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/220945/what-is-the-first-thing-you-do
Push M1 on the first thing I can push M1 on.
Look at this tryhard here with the diamond league esports strat.
Jokes aside, though:
Survivor - Hide in grass while I survey surroundings, look for a path to middle/far generator as Killer will likely be crossing to my area shortly
Killer - Attempt to find best vantage point to catch a survivor on a gen without warning. Sacrifices shmacrifices, I'm looking for scares first and foremost.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1886912#Comment_1886912
Undying + Ruin was unhealthy for the game. I know most people who play killer on here like to say how every game is against a sweaty 4men SWF, but that's not how it works. It was too much for solo Q.
Fair assessment.
Follow up point, however - if that's the case, maybe the devs just need to make a decision whether they want team based or solo experience, and change accordingly. Either remove SWF, add the option to opt-out of SWF entirely for Killers, or add voice chat so every lobby is presumed to have the same coordination as SWF. Done deal.
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@BanbaGanoosh said:
Freddy's kind of boring and I liked the strategic playstyle of old Freddy, some credit to @gfed on the discord server for this idea.
Power: Freddy must put survivors to sleep before being able to hit them or for them to be able to see him and hear his terror radius, this takes less time depending on how much sleep timer the survivors have left from the current 60 seconds. Freddy's teleport recharges much faster and he teleports much faster but dream snares no longer exist. Dream pallets automatically spawn around Freddy in eligible locations. Freddy can teleport to completed gens
Sleeping Survivors: Sleeping survivors receive a 30% action speed penalty and a 10% increased skill check failure penalty, however failing a skill check will bring you out of sleep after a 15 second delay. Sleeping survivors cannot see other sleeping survivors and cannot interact with them in any way. If two sleeping survivors are working on a generator the game will process the two as one and they will not gain any additional speed. Sleeping survivors cannot see awake survivors for a range past 8 meters around them. Sleeping survivors will hear freddys terror radius and be able to see him as if he were a normal killer
Addons:
Iridescent:
Red Paint Brush: sleeping survivors cannot see or interact with awake survivors unless they are being woken up by the awake survivor
Black Box: The obsession cannot wake up unless they are hooked
Block Family
all these addons will add illusions to the dream world for sleeping survivors only
Z Block (purple): Sleeping survivors will see completed gens as partially completed gens, working on a completed gen will cause the illusion to break and the survivor will scream, becoming exposed for 30 seconds
Unicorn Block (green): Sleeping survivors see unfinished gens as completed from a distance past 8 meters
Cat Block (Yellow): Sleeping survivors will intermediately hear distant terror radius while working on generators
Sheep Block (Brown): all totems appear lit for sleeping survivors
On one hand, I really like the concept you took here effect wise, particularly with the block family, which could potentially be the most fun to use.
On the other though, I feel like the changes proposed wouldn't solve Freddy's core issue of most of his addons being very passive in nature. I feel like it would be a better bet the snare, lose the teleport, and instead have those effects usable via dream tokens to make his power more dynamic, as well as making him pick-and choose between effects.
That being said, if they implimented these changes, you'd not get a cry of complaint from me - it leans Freddy much more toward the mind-game heavy killer he is in the movies with illusions and hallucinations, so if they implimented these as-is I'd still consider it a net gain, especially since it'd let me be sneaky with something OTHER than pallets (Sadly not effective, but I runs it anyway!).
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I actually despise the whole "Freddy isn't fun to play against" discourse, because it generally seems to boil down to being the inverse of the 'gen speed too high' argument, but I actually 100% agree that he is bland, and a waste of potential, since Freddy's entire movie persona just isn't brought out. As stated, he's a mish-mash of several vaguely mind-game concepts instead of the reality bending everpresent threat that takes joy out of dragging out the chase (as opposed to just the game itself).
That being said, part of what people seem to hate about Freddy is A) being passively effective through addons, and B) Having a lot of tools at once, both of which would still be issues with some of your ideas - at least without changing the way he works entirely, which is what I propose.
The way I would do it is fundamentally change his power so that it has an actual resource besides tokens. Since Freddy's power in the movies is entirely memetic, Give him just a straight, say, 5-charge power bar (similar to Marvel Vs. Capcom or other fighting games) that does NOT charge up automatically - instead, it passively charges for each survivor in the dream world, and charges more when chasing a sleeping survivor. After all, Freddy's whole schtick is he gets more power the more people believe in him.
Then, depending on how long the power is charged:
Tier 1 - Dream snare, functionally similar, uses 1 charge
Tier 2 - Dream pallet, again, functionally similar
Tier 3 - Traps a generator to jumpscare the next survivor to use it with a Freddy Monster (That caterpillar thing from Freddy Vs. Jason, or something?), inflicting them with Hindered and making them scream. Maximum of 2 generators at a time, cannot be used with less than 3 generators.
Tier 4 - Teleport to generator as current.
Tier 5 - The Boiler, as described above. At level 5, so considerable power investment is required for what is essentially a risk/reward scenario. Likely the only way this would be balanced.
Then, replace the slowdown addons with meaningful modifications to the powers above (cost decrease, power recharge rate increase, Dream pallets can be placed on top of real ones, etc), so that Freddy is less passively effective and rewards proper power management more. Staying awake also becomes more important as Freddy's ideal goal would be to keep as many survivors asleep as possible, thereby also discouraging needless tunneling.
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@DeathBeam said:
Honestly at this rate, there will be no top tier killers because many of these survivors do not want to adapt but want killer powers and addons nerfed instead.
Sure there will. It'll be a killer that gets buffed when queue times gets too long, or (more likely) another licensed killer to get those sweet "3 months of viability" bucks.
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"I'll bully you all I want, you deserve it anyway."
....
"But why queue times so long though!?"
-DBD forums
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@Huge_Bush said:
Devs have stated that he's going to be tuned due to his high kill rate. I cannot wait. So tired of tunneling freddies every other match.
Every tunneling Freddy was once a bullied trapper. Something to keep in mind.
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@Crowman said:
In all honesty, is it really an issue if SWF groups get a bonus 250K BP every month?
Does SWF really need more incentive? Or do we want even MORE "WHY QUEUES SO LONG!?!?111" threads?
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It’s a love/hate thing. The one game where the survivors aren’t gen rushing or bullying and tell me in endgame chat that I actually got jump scares on them is a great experience.
But then I spend 4 more games with SWFs butt dancing on the grave of my newly nerfed perks, just HOPING I can get another game like the first one.
....Which, come to think of it, DOES sound like chasing the dragon. So yeah, addiction is a fair image to evoke.
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If everyone’s sure BBQ is that powerful, I propose an experiment: devs should just make the BP bonus base kit for Killers and remove it from BBQ.
Make that change and see how many killers still run it for the OP Aura Reading (Spoiler: they will not).
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@Clevite said:
Never go to the gate at end game.
Never.
Go.
There.
They will leave if there is no one to see them dance.
I mean, not really. If they're there to BM they'll usually just wait until the meter's a hair away, or in my case, since I just ignore BM and play FGO while I wait, they'll come to jump around you 360ing and teabagging.
Frankly that last bit is fun for me - it's a reminder the only time they're wasting is theirs, as well as being the nonverbal equivalent of "Come on! Pay attention to me! ...Please?"
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Everyone's entitled to play their own way, but I hold myself to a policy of not tunneling unless they force my hand (OoO callouts, consistently teabagging, emote spamming, sneaking up to tap gens every time I leave them just to be annoying).
Be Wholesome to the wholesome people, toxic to the toxic people. I make it a point to never get that wire crossed.
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Every time I read "Nerf BBQ", I feel like it translates to "I would like to get an episode of King of the Hill in between matches."
Eliminating the grind is at least in the 80th percentile for the reason most of us use it, including the 4k/slugfest jerks, and I don't see nerfing it doing anything except driving even more people away from what is seen as a frustrating, grindy, unrewarding role to play. The ones who're actually being toxic will likely just replace it with NOED, or legitimately just facecamp, since BBQ actually DISCOURAGES doing that.
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Jumpscare Myers.
Is he strong? No.
Are you likely to win a lot with him? No.
Is it worth it for being able to almost hear someone falling out of their chair from across the country when you get the perfect ambush? ABSOLUTELY.
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I mean, survivors could also just not bully and BM killers in SWF, so killer isn't a stressful pit of misery all the time?
This is basically the early days League of Legends Support conversation all over again. Support isn't allowed to be strong>Also Consistently gets verbally abused>No one plays it>Community gravitates towards "Someone should be forced to play it".
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I actually do sympathize - it's the same feeling I get when I face the third SWF of the day with OoO that teabag anytime they're in LOS, and bodyblock with BT so they can teabag me at the exit gate as well. Especially common with Red Rank survivors, so likely the killers playing the way you describe just experience it so much they literally don't care how miserable they make the experience anymore.
Not saying it's correct though, and its why if I'm getting bullied I just watch netflix in the other monitor. If you let it get to you you're just going to end up repeating the cycle.
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(SAW VII SPOILERS AHEAD)
Could potentially be Hoffman? Though Saw VII ended with Gordon tossing the hacksaw out the door before closing it on him, Hoffman's been demonstrated to be the type to not give up easy - entirely possible in his final moments he found a way to jury rig amputating the foot before his strength gave out.
Either that or the level is just another one of the Entity's twisted takes on the characters' memories, and this stage is an alternate scenario where Gordon did NOT get out alive.
I prefer to think it's the former, just for the satisfaction of seeing Hoffman dead. Screw that guy.
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Survivors (and I should note CERTAIN survivors - a lot of survivors are legitimately just looking for a fun spookfest, and I enjoy games with them immensely) aren't curious - they're ANNOYED. They don't care why they can't get quick games - just that they can't. What they WANT is for killers to play the game they want, in the fashion they want it, and if they don't get that experience in a timely fashion, they figure something's wrong with the killer PLAYERS. Not the state of matchmaking, not the state of killers in general, not SWF. Just the players.
For my part I've given in to the intended play they want, because the occasional fun game where I can get some jumpscares and an occasional sacrifice is worth 5 games of 4-man SWF trolls making me their clown.
My advice is just keep a smartphone or second monitor handy, and if their behavior starts to lean towards the "DANCE FOR US, CLOWN" direction? Just watch youtube or something on your smartphone/second monitor, and just continue to play without paying much attention. You'll occasionally get yelled at for wasting time/bloodpoints/etc, but just remind them they got their win and that a humble baby killer like you is just no match for such pros.
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@EvilJoshy said:
I have a terrible feeling the new MMR isn't going to change a thing. If a group of R1 survivors are waiting long enough, the MM will just toss the first killer available. Fairness be damned.
Likely the case - it's all I can do, I suppose. Gotta keep queues at a level that isn't frustrating.
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@WeenieDog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1867083#Comment_1867083
I wouldn't mind them locking the lobby so you couldn't leave if they just let me see who is and who isn't in swf together. I'd be more inclined to play it out if I could make preparations of what I was getting into before hand.
I don't think they'll do that because queues will get even LONGER when killers just start taking the leave penalty.
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It's indicative of the state of how fun killer is to play, but I'm pretty sure the only response it'll get is another MMR tweak to widen the killer pool.
In my case, I keep queueing as killer, but I just watch netflix on the other monitor while I play. No sense in sweating on something you're intended to lose.
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@LetsPlayTogether said:
Yeah so funny to get carried by one perk, while your skill level is far below your actual rank. Why are killers so bad at learning the game and just compensate with the cheapest play possible?
Unless you're playing perkless, I'm gonna have to ask you to step out of your glass house before throwing rocks. It worries the neighbors.
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@DetailedDetriment said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/982100#Comment_982100
I simply don't enjoy entitled killer mains complaining about everything. I don't agree with the Ruin changes, but that doesn't give you the right to go ######### on another perk.
I actually agree with this - Much like "an eye for an eye" makes the whole world blind, "A nerf for a nerf" makes the whole game gimped.
The issue here isn't "They gutted Ruin, so now they need to gut DS". The issue is that they gutted ruin, without looking at WHY it was used so much, -at all-. Trying to punish survivors with nerfs will perpetuate that cycle and accomplish nothing except provoking a similar response. A spiteful merry-go-round of nerfs is fun for no one, and basically removes any responsibility for being even handed from the developers.
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I think it's fair to say that many have - just not all of us felt the need to spam the forums with it. The ones that do probably genuinely have a vested interest in seeing the game get better and may just be struggling with sunk cost fallacy.
Frankly, though, I wonder about the logic of trying to force the devs to change it back anyhow - their language on the doctor changes demonstrated a heavy survivor leaning by itself, let alone the ruin change without any generator speed evaluation.
I'd think that if any concessions are offered at this point, then it was less achieved through honest concern for Killer side and more through threats. Seems counterintuitive to stay when you feel your presence isn't desired, only begrudgingly tolerated.
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I disagree, just on the basis that slowdown is no more fun than losing 3 gens in 2 minutes. It's a band aid solution, and doubling down on that isn't going to fix anything or get to the root of the problem (Whether that be generator repair speed or lack of secondary objectives for survivors), nor will it make the game any more fun.
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I think part of the problem with the concept of 'a satisfying loss' in dbd is that the game's intended purpose and actual design are at odds with each other. BHVR created what they admittedly intended to be a casual, fun-oriented asymmetrical multiplayer game...but then also added ranks instead of hidden matchmaking scores or something to that effect.
When you add ranks to a multiplayer game, it is no longer a casual or fun-oriented experience in the back of the player's mind, but a min-maxed optimal play oriented experience. When you add a metric of displayed performance evaluation, that becomes the new goal, and the new measurement of fun.
I've always intended to play more as a horror game master, and focus more on more on creating a fun horror experience for survivors...and yet even I find myself getting viscerally upset when I depip or get tea bagged by survivors and watch them taunt me at the exit gate. All because that slight competitive metric is there. It's just how most people are wired, I guess - competitiveness can dictate a lot.
Given this information, I think the likely answer is "A satisfying loss is one in which I pip."
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@ASAPTurtle said:
The problem isn't gen times, it's the fact that since generators are the only objective, other side objectives like totem cleansing and chest searching aren't important.
I'd say it's a little of column A, a little of column B.
Frankly I think base Gen speed and Slowdown perks both need a look. Slowdown is just a band aid fix to try to prevent 4 minute matches, and generally isn't fun to play against. But it's become a necessary evil due to the rate at which gens go down, to the point Ruin's considered mandatory because even in the worst case it means 30 seconds a survivor isn't working on a generator.
30 seconds of extra time is still considered better than all the other perks available for most killers. That says something.
I say change base gen speed, and rework slowdown into something less fire and forget and more meaningful or interesting. In the end, it'd benefit both parties.
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This is straight up a rift problem, honestly. Those "Complete this challenge in one match" are shampoo drinkingly awful, and encourage equally as awful play. Killers slug and drag out to get their x traps/basement hooks/downs/sacrifices, survivors farm each other, get hit on purpose for self-heal challenges, chase injured survivors around with medkits (sometimes in direct view of the killer), etc.
So honestly, I can't blame the killer OR the survivor in this situation - just the rift. And honestly? Crap like that outlined above is why I'm not paying for it again until I see each and every challenge and decide whether I want to bother. I want the lore and cinematics and all, but if THIS is how I have to get them? Youtube it is.
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Gonna throw a shout to the old school here and say if they want to explore the video game space, Scissorman -yes, that's his real name- from Clock Tower (fairly beloved in horror gaming) would be a good fit.
"Scissorman" (シザーマン Shizāman) refers to the identities of many antagonists of the Clock Tower series. There are multiple Scissormen and even Scissorwomen in the series. They are terrifying, and sometimes invincible and invulnerable, serial killers who pursue the main character.He even has kind of a built in power in his home game that could be reproduced fairly easily - he'd frequently pop out of random items (hampers, closets, vents, etc) to start chases out of nowhere. So Power one could allow him to mark a locker, and power 2 could teleport him to it and allow him to pop out of it at will.
It also doesn't hurt that there hasn't been a new Clock Tower in a good while, so the license would likely be cheap.
Oh yeah, and he also has probably one of the best chase themes in horror game history.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jINCY4M0b3U