Nescau
Nescau
About
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- Nescau
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Comments
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Nerfing Undying + Ruin? Granted...for a price: nerf DS + Unbreakable.
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Ever since it was released back in the day, Mother's Dwelling has always been one of my favorite maps to play as Survivor.
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As Survivor, before Ruin rework it took multiple good chases/jukes to win against the Killer. After rework, it takes one good time-wasting chase for your team to get too far ahead. The perk served as a pseudo secondary objective and made games require a full 4-man effort to win. After the rework, I find myself constantly holding back by searching chests and totems, as well as healing through Sloppy. I also found the toolbox change (which was obviously caused by the Ruin rework) to be lame and unrewarding.
As Killer, ever since switching to PC last year I found myself playing only high tier Killers (specially Spirit and Freddy) and slugging a lot more than before. With Nurse becoming unfun to play as and Legion being butchetred, I have played considerably less on the Killer side.
Overall, similar to the healing changesd back in the day, the Ruin rework made the game a lot less fun/tense to play. IMO, DBD was best around a day before "yEaR oF TeH pIg" Amanda terror radius increase. While some good changes were made in 2019/2020, I think overall the negatives outweight the positives.
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More Nurse and Demo.
Less Freddy.
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I would implement accessibility features for deaf players like Identity V already has, such as visual cues for terror radius and before a skill check appears.
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@Elena said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1179890#Comment_1179890
Why is Trapper in the lowest tier? His traps are very powerful when used strategically. I personally think he should be moved to at least lower mid tier.
Trapper sacrifices early game to set up his traps. He already struggled a lot when Old Ruin was still a thing, even more now that it's gone. Without proper setup, he is basically a no power Killer that can cut one or two loops short (something even Clown can do). In order to setup, he has to sacrifice part of the map for a defense that's not hard to fight against.
His performance is also inconsistent. Some games multiple Survivors get caught in traps and you reach them in time, while in other games few to no Survivors fall for traps and/or free themselves before you can catch them.
The reason I placed Trapper on Low Tier insted of Low Mid is because I think he needs greater buffs than Plague, Myers, Wraith and Doctor.
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As you can see, your list isn't that different from my current one. I think it's too early for a definitive Deathslinger position, so consider this a first impression.
A team of 4 good Solo Survivors would be in the same place as Billy (maybe as Spirit now with Old Ruin gone).
A 4-man SWF with voice comms would be Nurse tier.
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About once or twice every five matches, so around 30%. Many of these deaths happen because of potato teammates.
When at least 2 teammates are good, we can win despite an early kill/early DLC/early sacrifice on weak link.
When all 4 of us are good, oh boy...welcome to Mathieu vs Korean Team.
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"Tunneling" is not even a valid complaint!
Capitalizing on weakness by quickly getting rid of the weak link is common sense. Kinda hypocritical if the same people suggesting the Killer should give up the chase against a good Survivor in a strong loop complain about "tunneling" a weak Survivor to death, specially if said Survivor is injured and/or caught in a bad position.
Let's not forget that Survivors are at a vunerable spot when trying to save each other, so contesting the save is one of the best ways of snowballing.
Honestly, "Tunelling" is more often than not Survivors falling to cope with the fact their lives are disposable. You are 25% of your opponent, so sometimes the best you can do is buy as much time as possible for the other 75%.
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Rating DLC Killers, Survivors and Maps in order of release, rating them from ☆ to ☆☆☆☆☆.
KILLERS | SURVIVORS | MAPS:
Old Nurse ☆☆☆☆☆ / New Nurse ☆☆☆ | Nea ☆ / ☆☆☆ (after perk buffs) | Map ☆
Myers ☆☆☆ | Laurie ☆ | Map ☆
Hag ☆☆ | Ace ☆ | Map ☆
Bill ☆☆☆☆
Doctor ☆☆ | Feng Min ☆☆ | Map ☆☆
Huntress ☆☆☆☆ | David ☆☆☆ | Map ☆☆☆
Leatherface ☆☆ | Map (Grim Pantry) ☆
Old Freddy ☆☆ / New Freddy ☆☆ | Quentin ☆ | Map (Old version) ☆ / Map (After Rework) ☆☆
Pig ☆☆ | Detective Tapp ☆ | Map (Old Version) ☆ / Map (After Rework) ☆☆
Clown ☆☆ | Kate ☆☆ | Map ☆☆☆☆☆
Spirit ☆☆☆☆ | Adam ☆☆☆ | Map ☆☆
Old Legion (play as) ☆☆☆☆ / Old Legion (play against) ☆ / New Legion ☆ | Jeff ☆☆☆ | Map ☆
Plague ☆ | Jane ☆☆ | Map ☆☆
Ash ☆
Ghosface ☆☆☆
Demogorgon ☆☆ | Steve ☆☆ | Nancy ☆☆☆ | Map ☆
Oni ☆☆☆ | Yui ☆☆ | Map ☆☆
Deathslinger ☆☆ | Zarina ☆ | Map ☆☆
RESULTS (stars out of 15, only counting the current version of Killers/Survivors/Maps, LF, GF, Bill & Ash excluded):
A Lullaby for the Dark: 10/15
Curtain Call: 9/15
Shattered Bloodline: 9/15
Cursed Legacy: 7/15
Last Breath: 6/15
Spark of Madness: 6/15
Stranger Things: 8/20 as a whole. 6/15 or 5/15 depending on the Survivor (for the sake of streamlining the rating).
A Nightmare on Elm Street: 5/15
Chains of Hate: 5/15
Darkness Among Us: 5/15
Demise of the Faithful: 5/15
HALLOWEEN: 5/15
SAW: 5/15
Of Flesh and Mud: 4/15
A Lullaby for the Dark the best overall DLC; Of Flesh and Mud is the worst. Best paid Killer is Spirit; Best paid Survivor is a toss between Adam, Jeff and Nancy (though really, the best Survivors have to offer is either on the base game or available as free DLC).
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@DeadbyDeathGarden said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1169411#Comment_1169411
How bout this
Insidious:
You revel in misguided hope of those less fortunate.
The first person you start a chase with becomes the Obsession.
If the obsession is hooked, 1 or 2 (depending on rarity) are given endurance till 2 or 1 gens are done (again on rarity.) You are also given the aura of the healed for 5/10 (again on rarity) seconds. If anyone comes within 20m of the hooked obsession, they lose the endurance, if the affected unhook the obsession, they lose a health status. If they are injured they obtain the Broken status effect for 60/90 seconds (rarity.) If the obsession dies, you gain 50% extra BP in Brutality.
It may be a bit OP.
Personally I would like BHVR to keep the Terror Radius suppression design of Insidious, but change it so it can no longer be used for camping purposes. You know how as Ghostface, you see auras through BBQ then use Night Shroud for stealthy approach? A perk that activated X seconds after hooking a Survivor and suppressed your TR for Y/Y+5/Y+10 seconds, but revealed your aura if choose to stay close to the hook during the suppression period is something I would have fun using.
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Needing an extra effort to keep youself alive during the last stage before sacrifice? Fine. The struggle animation looks cool and the idea behind it is flavorful.
Said effort consisting in mashing a button/key? NOT FINE. It is uncomfortable, but not in the tense, immersive way devs intended it to be. Mashing is just annoying and repetitive. All things considered, I voted blue because I want it changed.
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@DeadbyDeathGarden said:
It's still a camping perk. But now, you can stop survivors before they do whatever your camping as you see them coming! Wow! You made the problem you described even worse as theirs even more incentive to camp!
This.
If BHVR were to change Insidious, they should rework the perk so it can no longer be used for camping.
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This topic of mine was affected by the "Something has gone wrong" anti-Fibijean forum bug (reported here: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/138242/theres-something-wrong-with-polls), which prevented people from opening and voting on my pool.
I'm posting this to bump the pool a single time in order to give more people a chance to vote.
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BHVR is Survivor sided, so technically they juked your complaints instead of chasing you off. :P
That said, can we not defend Blizzard after the "pride and dignity of China" fiasco?
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MacMillan Estate
- Coal Tower: mostly even.
- Groaning Storehouse: Survivor sided (very Survivor sided if god window spawns)
- Ironworks of Misery: very Survivor sided
- Shelter Woods: Survivor sided
- Suffocation Pit: Survivor sided (very Survivor sided if god window spawns)
Autohaven Wreckers
- Azarov's Resting Place: mostly even
- Blood Lodge: very Survivor sided
- Gas Heaven: Survivor sided
- Wretched Shop: very Survivor sided
- Wreckers' Yard: Survivor sided
Coldwind Farm
- Fractured Cowshed: very Survivor sided
- The Thompson House: Survivor sided
- Torment Creek: very Survivor sided (extremely Survivor sided if god window spawns)
- Rancid Abattoir: Survivor sided (very Survivor sided if god window spawns)
- Rotten Fields: Billy sided
Crotus Prenn Asylum
- Disturbed Ward: very Survivor sided
- Father Campbell's Chapel: mostly even (possibly the most balanced map in the game)
Haddonfield
- Lampkin Lane: extremely Survivor sided
Backwater Swamp
- The Pale Rose: Survivor sided
- Grim Pantry: very Survivor sided
Léry's Memorial Institute
- Treatment Theatre: varies a lot depending on map layout and Killer.
Red Forest
- Mother's Dwelling: Survivor sided
- The Temple of Purgation: Survivor sided
Springwood
- Badham Preschool: all version are very Survivor sided (used to be extremely Survivor sided before rework)
Gideon Meat Plant
- The Game: Survivor sided (I'm aware this is an unpopular opinion)
Yamaoka Estate
- Family Residence: Survivor sided (very Survivor sided against Killers weak to stealth)
- Sanctum of Wrath: ??? (I don't know yet. Didn't play enough to judge)
Ormond
- Mount Ormond Resort: Survivor sided
Hawkins National Laboratory
- The Underground Complex: Entity sided (miserable experience for both sides)
Grave of Glenvale
- Dead Dawg Saloon: too early to tell
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Old Legion. :'(
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4 gens done in less than 4 minutes despite 80 second Corrupt Intervention.
Those Survivors had no stealth skills, were not good at chases and even worse at saving. While Tru3 could've played better, the Survivor team played worse and up to the 4 minute mark was carried by how fast gens can be done.
BHVR needs to start developing a secondary objective ASAP (they should also stop making Killers without movement/travel options, but that's for another topic).
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Billy vs 4 solo queue Survivors (assuming all 5 players have the same skill level)
Old Nurse vs 4-man SWF with voice comms
I used to have a problem with some Billy add-ons, but with Old Ruin gone it's all fair game.
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They would dodge Killers they don't like to play against and counter the ones they choose not to dodge.
Every Trapper would play against Small Game.
Every Hag would play against flashlights.
Every Doctor would play against Calm Spirit.
Every Ghostface would play against Spine Chill. So on and so forth.
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I totally support 5 perks for Killer. During Old Ruin times, I already thought Killers had about 3.5 times the power of single Survivor and could use a 5th perk slot to move them to 4 times. With Old Ruin gone, it's a no brainer.
Alternatively, they could also choose one from a certain group of Killer perks and make it baseline. For example:
- What if NOED was baseline but Survivors had a totem counter and the totem detection part of Small Game also became baseline? It could become an additional objective that slows down gen speed while also being optional and allowing Survivors to choose dealing with NOED if it means gens being done faster. BHVR could even use the opportunity to revisit Hex perks design so other Hex perks could stay useful (with a lesser effect) despite being cleansed.
- What if Brutal Strength or Enduring became baseline? Making some actions/recovery faster is a relevant buff that also counts as a nice quality of life change. It would also allow BHVR to develop another perk for either Trapper or Billy, which could be interesting.
- What if Spies from the Shadows became baseline? Yeah yeah no many people care about the perk, but what if BHVR gaves the much requested Crow-themed Killer and make an overhaul to the whole crow system? Something to think for the future.
A point system where certain perks weighted more than others could be good as well, specially since devs made many perks that are better used together.
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Before September 2019, 85% Survivor. Most Killer matches as either Old Legion or Old Nurse.
After that, Survivor only except for PTB. 99,99% of these matches in solo queue, most of those as either Dwight, David or Kate.
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It's crazy how much BHVR panders to Survivor "fun" yet are so thick headed about this annoying mechanic.
Struggling on the hook is not scary, tense nor immersive. It's annoying, unnecessarily contributes to wearing out the controller/keyboard and sometimes get you unfairly killed because the game decided it didn't like the way you were mashing the button/key.
This and the black sound bubble after hooking/generation completion are bad mechanics and should be removed. Maybe keep the struggling animation (without having button presses) for the sake of flavor.
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From a Survivor perspective, definitely the healing changes. Healing became slow and boring, making the meta more gen oriented. It was supposed to slow down the game, but for high level gameplay it actually made it faster since people don't heal.
From a Killer perspective, Legion rework. They were so damn fun to play as! The moonwalking cheese, downing Survivors with four (three) feral stabs, the sheer speed of Feral Frenzy, rushing in front of a Survivor then cancelling the power (which used to be a lot more fun with Old Legion) and even the comedic aspect of how their walking animation looked at 110% movement speed.
Old Legion effectively felt like playing a Survivor. IMO, the only non-stress Killer ever released. Yeah, yeah, some aspects needed a change, but not like this...not like the booring, slow, clunky M1 Killer they are now. tsk
Finally, from an U.I. perspective: know that little warning about game saving you get before loading the main menu? On PC it disappears pretty fast, no problem. But on PS4, it takes a while to disappear and finally let you click to load the menu, making it mildly infuriating and building boredom over time. Been a while since i switched from console to PC, so ignore this paragraph if its no longer a problem.
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Huntress was the last groundbreaking original Killer they made. A projectile user singing a lullaby was something different from everything else before, and to this she is still one of the most fun Killers to play as and against. Being paired with David, who had an innovative exaustion perk, a pro-grinding perk (which used to grant 200% bloodpoints, never forget) and the ridiculous but iconic No Mither, that chapter was peak BHVR creativity.
After that, every original Killer was unispired. Clown and Plague are basically different flavors of Huntress, Spirit was a mix between Nurse and Wraith while Legion was another dash flavor of Spirit, Demo being basically a worse New Freddy and Oni being a worse Billy. Currently on PTB we have Deathslinger, which goes full cicle, being a worse Huntress.
Post Huntress, BHVR's innovations has been mostly carried by licenses, like Pig's RBTs and Ghostface-style stealth, and even in those cases that didn't stop Pig's dash from being a different flavor of Wraith and GF's stalk being an individualized flavor of Myers.
Compare that to Identity V Hunters, which are oozing with innovation and creativity, and I can't help but remember Matthew's words back in the day when he said they couldn't just keep adding Killers forever (something like that). Now that they have the whole cosmetic store and battle passes giving them money, i wish their design/program teams concentrated on creating complementary powers to their weaker Killers (like they gave a lot of stuff to Freddy) instead or creating new Killers.
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Toolboxes are not the core problem, they are simply an aggravating factor to the gen times issue. Early game is very Survivor-sided, because Survivors can start progressing their objective immediately while Killer spends time patrolling, chasing, downing and finally getting a Survivor in the hook, not to mention the actual pressure to unhook won't start until the second Survivor is injured except for 1-shot Killers. It's no surprise that in high level matches, 2 or 3 gens pop by the time the Killer hangs the first Survivor.
Old Ruin addressed many gen speed questions:
- It increased gen times by punishing good skill checks and preventing great skill check bonus.
- It created a secondary objective since many Survivors didn't want to power through the perk.
- It soft-countered Toolboxes, because the item's skill check rate increase made hex skill checks more present.
Hex: Ruin was to DBD what the Force of Will card is to the vintage/legacy format in Magic: the Gathering: the (overpowered) glue that holds the gameplay together, a necessary evil. In other words, now that the glue was removed, devs have to manually fix each problem band-aided by it.
My suggestions:
- Give each Killer their own gen time and make 90 seconds for Billy as the standard. Generators for every Killer stronger than Billy should take 80 seconds or less to complete (this would allow baseline Old Nurse to come back at 70 seconds or less, for exemple, and prevent Spirit from getting further nerfs). Killers weaker than Billy should take 100 seconds or more. It would be a lot more balanced for someone like Clown if Survivors needed 110 seconds to complete a gen.
- Start designing a legit secondary objective ASAP. It would probably take a long time to release, something like setember 2020 or beyond, but better late than never.
- Make Toolboxes require more skill to use. For example, instead or passively increasing gen speed, make them give a greater bonus upon hitting a great skill check.
If those problems are not addressed, or if devs keep don't do anything in a very timely manner, this game is gonna get boring really soon for both sides. Having to hold back as a Survivor so your opponent has time to breathe on one side and feeling like a helpless, bullied NPC on the other while also having to deal with an oppressive grind: if that PTB is a representation of DBDs future, we are in very dark times indeed.
