MythicMikeneto
MythicMikeneto
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@Dreamnomad said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/meet-your-maker/discussion/comment/3605752#Comment_3605752
Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to throw shade at your outpost at all. It clearly wasn't intended to be difficult. I'm on board with building normal outposts that are built with the intention of catering to and inspiring newer players.
For sure. I appreciate you taking the time to raid it.
I was commenting more toward the vast majority of POB (and builds in general) are built with the full intention of 'challenging' a raider.
When a builder scales that mission back to a target of less than 1 kill per raid (but still more than 0) the difficulty will be on par with Harvey.
If a raider expects/desires a 'challenge' they will likely be unsatisfied/unchallenged by Harvey and other builds like it.
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This would be a double edged sword for sure.
People grouping together in clans or guilds for community and freindship is always great.
The second competetiveness becomes involved it tend to go sour pretty quick. Guilds rejecting applicants for them 'not being good enough', rivalries that turn into full on feuds, and the biggest/elitest guild literally controlling the games versus competition (seen it happen first hand, twice). Not to mention 'guild drama'.
Psychologically, guilds/clans are very similar to street gangs and include everything they bring to a community in the real world. As much as I want to beleive the MYM community wouldnt fall into the toxicity that comes from that, I doubt they would.
I can already imagine:
The 'Speed Runner group' formS first and any time somebody bad mouths 'speed running' they collectively block that person.
Then the 'inch worm coalition' who ban together to group support an intiaitive to abandon any outpost that cant be taken slow.
Let's not forget the 'builders only society' who would ban together to unify feedback to convince the devs to nerf raider gear and make traps 90% more lethal, driving away any possible lkayer growth.
The implications of follower/sheep behavior plus group mentality is a perfect storm waiting to happen in this game. They only this preventing this proposed distopia is people maintaining individuality with personal identity (as opposed to being and individual in an organized collective)
Respectfully, hard pass.
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I have found great success in using impalers in a 'indirect' fashion.
For the longest time impalers were the bane of my existence. I could clear a whole room and one leaving get shanked to a blind angle impaler.
I have to side with Dreamnomad here, and say Impalers are fine.
I often read complaints from builders that traps arent efficient enough to get raiders. I do think this is largely due to builders not intentioanlly aiming for dangerous or normal difficulty builds. Brutals are typically only raided by the highest skilled raiders or duos. A lone impaler (without big brain building techniques) are arguably one of the easiest traps to overcome. Low difficulty versus high skill equals underperformance.
The advice I can offer (that is in the same vein as Dreamnomad's) is to distract the raider with a more active threat (like a guard or projectile) and let the impaler get them.
I have had great sucess with this technique with impalers, usually on the ceiling with a down slope into a room with a live guard threats. Its really frigthening how well it works.
Try these outpost for examples (by MythicMikeneto)
Sisseton (Normal)
Tigerton (Dangerous)
Bear in mind thw difficulty rating on these and the type of raider that normally raids them.
Best of luck in your builds!
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@Dreamnomad said:
Ohm is Futile - Jenks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQlGhFRZYBQ
I really enjoyed this outpost. High pressure with threats coming at you from every direction. Neat little shortcut exit at the end. All that and it looks really nice too.
MythicMikeneto - Harvey
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKlHw-OX9A8
This outpost strikes me more as an art sculpture than anything else. A striking combination of shapes and colors.
It really was mainly art.
This was built near the start of my mission to create sustained nornal content for new players.
I shifted my focus from building the trap 'machine' then making the arcitecture fit it: to instead bhulding arcitecture and assing traps to it in a way that made sense.
Shockingly many new players die multiple times (upwards of 7) in this build. It has allowed me to seee the extremely wide gap in raider skill. I recommend builders attempt to build sustained normals and watch the replays yo really understand how low the raid skills can go.
Very interesting contrast to read your review of Ohm's build then mine. From that, I wouldnt assume you 'enjoyed' the raid experience of Harvey at all (this is to be expected from a higher tier/skilled raider). It is clear you apprciate it for the efforts I had put into building it. Thanks for taking the time to check it out.
I believe Harvey could be the 'poster child' for normal content. It often saddens me to see min/maxed builds in normal that take as much advantage as they can of the difficulty system to prey on new players.
Seeing skilled raiders do normals is also sad to a lesser degree, because their 0 death will help keep the easy content in the normal tier and... well... it's solid entertainment to watch them get killed (even just once) by an outpost way below thier weightclass.
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Lets hope for an influx of raiders (more peanut butter) from the physical copy release in Japan. Fingers crossed.
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I am always hestitant to support an idea that make things 'harder' for the raider.
We suffered a long period of player loss due to the game being 'too hard'.
I understand the desire to put more value on the possibilty of failure, however thie live/die/repeat model is so common in first person shooter games it just seems to fit here.
I often consider MYM a 'puzzle' game. All outposts have a solution, many have multiple. The fewer the solutions the more difficult they are to complete.
Having endless lives will turn a 'skillbox' outpost into a game of 'Simon' or 'Memory' where the list of moves/actions to complete gets longer with each progess/death. The better the raidrs retenrion ability the easier it will be to defeat.
To take that away endless lives would punish the raider and the builder (who typically seek as many kills as possible). To find/set a reward balanced to that may be difficult.
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@Dreamnomad said:
The acid corridor maps or just any garbage map in general, I'd advise blocking the builder. This is a relatively small community so if you block enough bad builders then eventually you'll get mostly maps you like or at the very least can tolerate. I probably have 200 people on my block list and I feel like it has definitely had a good impact on the quality of maps I get.
200?! Wow. According to some, you have blocked more people than the entire games current population.
I try to sweep our my block list regularly. This is in line with DELEX's thought that over time people may improve.
There are a few names that live there permanently for reasons other than build techniques.
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I can say it has had a good effect on my 'sustained nornals'; though I am concerned we will see the resurgence of 'min/maxing in normal to prey on new players for easy kills and more raids per activation.
On the note of raids, it may have just been mid week plus US holiday, but my normals did not hit the usual 30 raids per activation after this update.
Theoretically that may be because the 'pool size' shift, and now the raid pools are more balanced across the board.
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I really want to support 'The abandon button should be accessible at all times' but I just can't. Here is why:
If raiders could abandon an outpost wiyhout even trying it/loading it, many outpost would get dumped based on advisor intel alone.
Now this would save time for the raider sure, but only results in builders not getting raids and not knowing why, then whining 'I get no raids. My builds are great, makes no sense. Must be the game not working right, fix it!'
Yeah, everyone should know trap spam (or any kind really) is annoying and not appreciated in any way; but for anyone not plugged into reddit, the discord servers, or here, they really could have zero clue the impact their building spam is having on people.
I recently ecouraged raiders to 'walk out' during a replay if they dont like the build. Walking out is excatly what it sounds like, once you see the build is something you despise you about-face walk back to the landing pad and abandon. It sends a very clear message to the builder, 'I dont like this and I am not even gonna try.' It obvious and intentional and leaves very little room for 'maybe they disconnected, or maybe they just rage quit, or whatever.' It also helps you as a raider start to quanitfy how much stuff you really have no tolerance for versus what you might be willing to try.
A 'walk-out' makes for a very dissatisfying replay and really sets the builders mind into, 'What did I do wrong? Why did they not even want to try?" Which are some of the best questions a builder can ask themselves to cause them to stop only thinking about what the build will do for the builder, and instead start thinking about what the build will do for the raider (if even only for a moment)
So yeah, in my opinion, raiders need to take the time to load in and look at an outpost be for abandoning, if only to make a statement to the builder and not just leave them guessing at why they get no raids.
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As much as I want to say it is the most rewaeding for their time, I think it actually comes down to this:
Dying is generally not fun.
Builders in dagerous and brutal build with the intention of killing the raider as much as possible through min maxed efficiency; Then they complain when they dont get kills because 'raider to good'.
Raiders know they can run normals and not die. 100% win.
I am 600+ hours in and I refuse to run brutals. I am confident in my skill to run most dangerous builds and 'win' within 2 bird boxes. More than that and I am usually out.
This is a common feeling/way to play amongst raiders (evident from replays).
This means builders will always be dissatisfied when their goal is 'as many kills as possible' but a large portion of raiders wont raid content that they dont feel confident they can 'win' withing a certain amount of deaths.
It is the choice of a raider how much 'difficulty' they subject themselves to. I would think most raiders are able to accurately self assess their own skill, and choose not to take on more than is feasible for them to complete. Players who feel they can win quickly agains brutals play brutals. That number of pllayers is too small for the number of builds that are in the brutal pool, equaling virtually no raids.
What 'reward' is their for a raider to throw their body at a 'death machine'? Warm fuzzies that they are stroking the ego of a builder, encouraging them to continue to make really hard content the raider doesnt enjoy, filling thier pockets with some synth, and boosting their master rank?
I'll jump to the retort of, 'That satisfaction of beating the challenge': Naw. I have no guarantee I can or will beat it. Consiser the potential of an infinite amount of deaths and not succeeed versus punching below my weight class to guarantee near immediate success.
The math seems pretty straight forward on that. Why would I bother?
IMO, If builders started building with a limited target number of kills in mind, raiders 'might' be encouraged to put thier big boy pants on and try a challenge or two.
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Even with my current... challenges... with the dynamic difficulty system, I think its largely working.
Yes. it is hard AF to build a sustainable normal outpost, but builds that are too hard for newer players are ending up in dangerous or higher (as it should be).
I still think the perception that builds are in the wrong category comes from a builders innate desire to get kills and prey on newer players for easy kills. We just cant do that any more because it was stopping player base growth.
The fact that higher level player can and oftem do 0 death an outpost should negin to be viewed ad a boon to lower to outpost ranking. Sure the replay isnt worth the time it takes to load, but maybe thenext one where you get kills will be.
The other compounding factor is lack of raids for higher difficulties. Normals getting 10 times as many raids as brutal and 5 times as many as dangerous doesnt feel good to anybody; specifically when nobody wants to build basically harmless outposts for newer player friendly content.
We really need a fouth upper tier or the hardest 'brutal' content; or a lower tier for newer player content (Same difference.)
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@Dreamnomad said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/meet-your-maker/discussion/comment/3587433#Comment_3587433
Lol, I've been playing for so long and didn't even know you could limit cross-platform players. Maybe I saw it in the options and just didn't care. I can totally understand in some games why you might want to limit cross-platform players but this particular game doesn't make sense to do that. It's not like PC players build harder outposts!
You and I wouldn't think PC players build more anymore tryhard than console players, but I have heard it direct from a PSN player who is recently/currently 'taking a break' from MYM, that they dont enable cross platform because they feel PC players try a little to hard in their builds.
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@Leonardo1ita said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/meet-your-maker/discussion/comment/3587444#Comment_3587444
Problem @MythicMikeneto : want builders to build more Ingenious traps that actually work consistently, and raiders to face them?
Solution (bitter solution): remove, on both sides, all the OP stuff, especially Arc Barrier + Nautilius' suit's perks, Phoenix Pods, and the broken Enhancements.
Without that, are builders incentivised to build very creative and complicated traps, if raiders can just press a button and be completely invincible for 3,5 seconds with a perfect Arc Barrier parry + gadgets + 3 Enhancements?
On the raider side, imo, it's becoming so so boring for Normal and Dangerous: I can beat almost any Dangerous map with Arc Barrier + the 2 Nautilius perks and the Harvey path perk; because I can just go forward autopilot, press m2 if I'm EVER in danger to die (almost never), and slow down in case of a piston or something.
The only fun maps are the Brutals, which are NOT rewarded equally, because defeating a Brutal takes A LOT longer than Dangerous outposts/Expeditions. Most Dangerous I can beat in around 1 minute/1,5, and mostly feel all the same.
Raiding is not fun, because you just know that if you speedrun, even with no Spike Drive, shields, or perks, or enhancements, you will likely not die.
We are of different minds on the subject and I respect your perceived raiding skill.
I really don't like brutals myself because of all the sweaty tryhard builder stuff and the total time sink to beat them.
Personally, I am no good at speed running. It's very stressful (and not fun) to me as I like to play this game to chill.
I've heard the 'the game isnt hard enough' frequently, but only from a few select raiders, usually the really good ones. The desire for 'harder' content is separate and different from builders being more welcoming to new players. They cant realistically expect a new player to be as good as them (or any other experienced raider) from the get go, or even in the long run.
Forcing everyone into harder game content will only serve to cut down the player base from all the poeple who dont like really hard stuff. This is evident each time anew exploit drops or the next big meta surfaces. Player get sick of it and just walk away cuz it's hard.
I'll be honest, take away my bird boxes and I will jump back down to nornals and never look back. Having to start completly over feels like a huge waste of time to me. The builder got their kill, let me save time and complete the outpost so I can get on to the next.
Expecting me to run an outpost again and again and again, taking more and more time each death, because I make one tiny slip up is (IMO) madness and very not fun. This is why I usually abandon after the 3rd death.
If it was 3 fast deaths, the rest of the level is likely worse and I dont care to devote the time needed to beat it.
If each life is getting longer and longer and I am not showing real progess or have any idea how much longer the outpost is gonna take, pull that rip cord. I can just go to the next outpost andnhope I get something I like more.
Essentially the builder is against raider skil (or lack of skill), time spent to raid, and raider perception of if their time is worth raiding the build. If the builder doesnt care about raider time or raider skill level, the raider probably has no reason to care if they complete the outpost or not.
Builders cant force anyone to give them kills, they can only force raiders not to play their outposts; and do they really want less raids?
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I think creating positive new player experience focused content is the next step to growing the player base/community of MYM.
Many builder become very focised on kills and even defend it with things like 'git gud'; in truth I have had many statements from players leaving or that have left MYM pointing to the fact the 'tryhard' builder is what killed it for them.
The dynamic dofficulty system has gone into directly combat min/maxing in normals, but the result has swept nearly everything into brutals (and to a lesser degree, dangerous). This should present to builders as an obvious health check of what content difficulty is for new players.
The game cannot be expected to maintain new players when there isnt content geared toward their skill level. We (as builders) cannot expect a new player to come in and be as good as somebody who has been here since release (or before) and expecting them to die repeatedly to figure it out is not usually rewarding or enjoyable to them.
It is time for those with the skills and drive to build 'tutorial' or mostly harmless, sustainable, Normal builds for new players to enjoy to build up their skill in the game.
I know its incredibly difficult to shakenoff the 'must kill' mentality as a builder. Lets face it tho, kills from buildkng never has (and likely never will) effectively maintain your outposts. If you want more raids, we need more players. If we want more players, they need enjoyable content for their skill level.
Feel free to ping/DM me in the community discord and I will be happy to share what I have learned about building sustainable normals for new players. Its not for everybody but it can still be very rewarding in a differnt way than just 'getting kills'.
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This also may be happening if you have limited thee crossplay content uaing the appropriate in game setting.
I have heard reports from PSN players that limiting crossplatform content has dev team builds show up in the raid map.
This may be due to a lack of player made content for that particular difficulty on just the single gaming platform.
I am under the assumption that dev team builds show up as 'placeholders' if no player made content is available.
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@eyedeeoneohtee said:
What about just adding ladders to the game? Nothing fancy, just a low capacity "trap" that lets the harvester or the guards climb that section of wall?
Sadly the 'ladder' idea was suggested in the past and the devs openly shot it down in a live AMA (iirc).
I am taking a wild guess that such a thing was comsidersd in early MYM development and was deemd too diffuclt or too exploitable.
I hope 'alternate objectives' become a thing. My wife lokes to joke about the objective always being on screen as 'collect the gen mat and escape'.
IMO it would be so cool to have other placable objectives (or even other win conditions) to add the the raiding experience. The optional/additional placeable ones could be not HRV constricted (like tombs) and while the main objective still remains the same, raiders would have more reaon to go off the beaten path.
Of course builders would take this opporotunity to murderlize raiders horribly and eventually raiders would just ignore them (like tombs), but it woild be fun while it lasted.
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I see these as a good sogn of returning players that left.
I got one that was a raid on an outpost I stripped and rebuilt into something new within the first couple weeks of the game release.
The raider had to have left mid raid and just never went back to finish it. Likely, they came back with the new sector drop and decided to give MYM another go.
Lets hope they stick around this time.
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@Dreamnomad said:
Okay, okay, before anyone loses their minds, the thread title is a little bit of click bait. I'm not talking about anything so crass as paying a monthly fee for a premium service that promotes your outposts. I think we can all agree that would be a disaster so let's not even talk about it.
"But if you aren't going to buy raiders with money then what would you pay with?" Glad you asked. What I'm recommending is a trade of labor. What if once you successfully raid an outpost then one of your outposts (of equal or lower difficulty) would be bumped up the queue until it is successfully raided or abandoned twice?
Therefore there would be a system in place where you gain raiders by raiding thus creating a self sufficient system.
As much as I want to supoort this (being an active raider) I dont see it ebing a 'popular concwpt wirh the community, here is why:
Builder only. The concept that people want to only build means that tgwy again would have more being 'forced to raid' which they appear to be vehemently against.
Active raiders gain all the advantage. As self serving as that is for me, othe rlkayers my not have the time to dedicate to this game just so they can get a couple raids on their active outpost.
Limitations or no? If there is no limit to how many/how often the boost can be gained, as an active raider I can boost my bases indefiinately. Of it is limited everyone gets their limit: either way once all outposts are 'boosted', non of them are.
Fair versus favoritism: this is the root of the matter, everyone wanst thier base to get all the raids as fast as possible. There can only be 15-18 outposts exposed to a raider per outpost selecting screen and only 1 selected, that effevtively means 'if you arent first, you're last'.
This whole suggestion appears to be based in building a system that allows player in some way to make their outposts more imporatnt than anyone elses. If an outpost gets a raid, that means that outpost took that raid away from every other builder; then another, and another.
The problem? Lack of raids. Why is there a lack of raids, a reasource that should be bottomless? Let's circle back to the 'builder only' comcept. Many dont want to raid. Some have just burned out. Some find it too hard. For whatever reason raiders retire to building and often dont go back.
I get the idea of wanting to incentivize raiding; I don't think any realistic incentive is going to beat a flat 0 desire to play the raid half of the gameThe community has already voiced its opinion about not wanting to be 'forced' to raid.
If builds ever become self suatinable (somehow without raids), I think that will further reduce the raids we are spreading around to each other.
In an extreme view, I would like to see a 5-9 completed raid requirement to even begin to get raids in active outposts; possibly daily, possibly a currency you load into your outpost to make them active (maybe even to prestige them).
Oh wait, thats basically synthite with extra steps. Lol.
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Aim a bomb ejector down a ramp with a ramp up behind them can slow their 'run away'.
Partially obscured bombs ejectors high up have proven effective.
Dont give them much room to run/get away or use chaos bombs augment to extend less than predictable bomb bounce range.
I find they work best when you can get the bomb ejector to activate behind a raider so the have to move forward instead of back. Generally speaking, moving forward into unkown active traps poses more danger than backwards into a hallway/room that was already cleared.
Crawling raiders have a hard time with being rushed, rushing raiders may have difficulties with the randomness of the bombs following them into the next area.
Prepared raiders with just pop/drop a shield and wait for the bombs to resolve themselves.
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@MythicMikeneto said:
Double digits (less than 10)is my usual limit; unless I think I can beat it and I am just making dumb mistakes.
Time is a factor too. If it takes me 15 cautious minute to get to gen mat, to die to a burtal combo on the way out, I may not find it worth to complete.
I always make sure to proper abondon rather than 'alt+f4' though. You win, take my kill; Ill pack my thing and go.
Once I hit master I will prbably significantly care less. I'll not never achive a high enough space in the leaderboards to care about that, but re leveling trying to get to master sucks.
On the flip sid:e watching a 10+ kill replay goes from entertaining, to rooting for the raider, to painful to watch. I had a 28 kill replay and I felt ilke a monster for making the base after their 15th death.
Lol this has aged well.
Now that I have hit master, the desire to climb the leaderboards has taken over. Yes, I know most think the leaderboard is pointless and that doesnt mean anything to them; and I don't care.
That little number measuring my time dedicated to this game in comparison to every other master ranked MYM player in the world, has basically become my only reason to raid. (130 and climbing)
Regretably this means my death before abandon has dropped from less that 10 to less than 3 (and lower by difficulty). I will finish an oupost if I think I can do it in a timely manner (10 minutes or less) even after death 3 (0 rank gain) just to finish it; but generally I am heavily weighing if its even wirth my time because without rank gain. I am not really getting much out of the mediocre builds people are putting out there.
Synthite? Sure. Sitting with 10k+ in pocket easily maintaining 5 active outposts, not feeling a ton of value there.
Fun game play? Sometimes. 20 guards a base, or plasma sentinel spam, or the same old death hallways are getting kinda stale; but it gives me something to do.
Generally if somebody got more than 3 kills of my raid its because I was actually enjoying the raid and felt the need to complete it without reward. Whether it was a challenge the offered or I was just dying stupidly to an impaler I missed over and over again; I found some value to give into the need to complete the outpost, regardless of deaths.
If I bounced out after 3 (or less), it didnt feel worth my time.
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MadMoeZel suffering from success (being too good at MYM).
Many people can't beat the content that is out there now. The number of abandons I have on my builds (I specifically make short outposts of varying diffculties) says that. I also dont claim to be very good at building.
Just because you can dunk on somebody's best, doesn't mean is isn't sufficiently hard for others.
It is rather lonely at the top. My condolences.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3431638#Comment_3431638
In the recent Ask Me Anything the Devs revealed that active outpost exposure is/was currenty prioritzed to a set number of raid,, and will soon be/is now a set number of kills.
Unless I'm misunderstanding you, you have the matchmaking system backwards.
Outposts go up and they remain at the top of matchmaking until they have received a number of kills (we are looking to change this to number of raids instead). Then, they lower in the matchmaking priority (allowing access for new Outposts to get raided). As they enter the end of their lifespan they rise up in priority again.
That's from the AMA seven days ago [direct link to answer]. (Emphasis added by me.)
Thanks for the correction via quote!
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@drsoontm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3430522#Comment_3430522
Not having my bases visited (something like a total of 8 visits after 3 prestiges) was what made me stop. I've made two bases so far : no kill rooms, just multi paths with more or less cleverly placed traps. None were worth my time.
There were also a couple of other things but they are fixed now. (Harvey kill, through-cube exploit, ...)
I'll try again when a base isn't being disabled until it has a minimum amount of visits, instead of 12 mere hours.
In the recent Ask Me Anything the Devs revealed that active outpost exposure is/was currenty prioritzed to a set number of raid,, and will soon be/is now a set number of kills. Once reached the outpost lowers in the queue to give exposure to other outposts. They also spcifically called out that 'player agency' if a factor as well in outpost exposure/getting raids.
Asking for a outpost not to have a timer would mean they need to remove the gen mat gain from active outposts. I dont see them doing that anytime soon.
It is unfortunate the game's core design does not appeal to you. I wish it appealed to everyone, but it just doesnt.
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Intereting. It appears the did in fact lift the 'diminishing returns'
Ill check later. But I previously never gained more thsn 250 (that I recall) from a single raid.
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I have seen this happen in an outpost of mine.
I had considered making it an intentional part of a build, but it use seems very limited to co-op (as mentioned).
I has thought maybe som phychological impact to encourage the raider to keep trying as technically they did 'get' the gen mat, so they know it is possible... lol
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@drsoontm said:
Bombed? I understand "bombed" as unfairly badly reviewed.
My review of the game, updated the 22th of April, is negative for various reasons that made me stop pretty early and, as far as I know, aren't fixed yet.
About a month ago, I've tried twice to prestige my outpost to get visit and had virtually nothing. (That was my chief complain, there are several others.)
There is a reason the Steam charts are showing such a drop in the player base.
I would recommend trying again soon.
Outpost exposure has changed. From the recent AMA it was revealed an actove outpost has increased visibility until it gets a certain number of kills. They only thing you sre up agains is 'player agency'. If the intel on you outpost lost nt good and the thumbnail is deterring, you might still not get raids; but that isnt the devs fault. Builder have to cater to the desires of the raiders. Sad, but true.
Accolades are worth more and the amount neeeded to prestige is less; add in the prestige buff and you likely wont miss a prestige. I have yet to not pretige an outpost since the update. I came relly close to missing prestige with a new large/bruta on p1, but clutch got a raid in the last couple minutes; which incidentally gave it enough to reach p5.
I can only assume there are other reasons you stopped playing; but you did not mention them, so I cannot advise if they have been impoved upon.
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@MadMoeZel said:
this problem is self resolving. synthite stockpile will run low on people running 5 outposts if they aren't getting raids. they won't be able to afford holding all 5 up. then they will either lower their map count, or raid more to get the synthite required, increasing the raid counts for others.
Unless people just quit because they cant 'Builder only'.
Also the raids may just be tomb hunting, because that is a thing now. Lol.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3428282#Comment_3428282
The outpost in question is now a Social one. Lakota by TheSeraphor, if you want to see what I mean.
The player made it all the way through the path to the genmat, upon dying in the genmat room, proceeded to following the HRV all over again, multiple times.
It's not a real maze, once you know where the genmat is, you can literally see it from the starting point.
Gave it a go. It was a good time.
NGL after death three I was ready to just follow HRV for as long as it took. I think it illustrated my example of how if I just followed Harvey I could have saved myself some time and deaths.
I restarted the level after 'escaping" with the gen mat to give it a go knowing where it was.
I am not exactly sure what your complaint is at this point. It seems like you are ipset the guy didnt bypass parts of your outpost because his spatial awarenss was not great enough to track which way was the shorcut.
Until I followed Harvey, I felt like I was reading a book out of order. Thay bieng, said my exploration helped me get my bearings enoigh to know where to go. Had I tunnel vision followed harvey, I would have likely had to continue to follow him on subsequent runs.
The TL:DR your outpost is a bit 'big brain' for some of the masses; I mean that as a compliment.
So I recommend not getting too upset when Mr. IQ less than yours comes through and has to hold Harveys hand yo make it through.
Thanks for the social raid. Very impressive outpost. Ingenious (for big brain base) and brutal (for my deaths), if I could give them.
Full marks if the game allowed.
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After being lost in an numerous outposts, I stick the the HRV path pretty strongly.
What you have going against you is other builders who do the same HRV path long/Non HRV path short, but the make the short path super deadly or really easy to get lost in.
I once had to wait 10 blanking minutes for the HRV because I tried the 'shortcut' and got so turned around and lost I couldnt find my way in or out. It took longer to try the shortcut and then having to wait for the HRV than just following the HRV in the first place.
Another time, I knew the short path was trapped to hell and back, but I thought I would give it a try thinking, 'Surely they made that route completable somehow.' After 6 repeateded (entertaining) deaths, it was back to the long HRV path to actually be able to complete the level.
Again, took longer to take the 'shortcut' than to just follow the HRV in the first place.
Once raiders experience and learn this, your 'shortcut' is seen as the 'long way' (even if it is in fact shorter) and the HRV is the best way to save time and lives.
From your description of you build it sounds like dying multiple times may actually make the shortcut longer than the HRV path.
Think of it like this:
HRV path is 50 long. Shortcut is 25 long.
Taking the short cut I die 5 times at increasing lengths.
5 die, 10 die, 15 die (0 rank gain for me at this point), 20 die, 25 die, 25 and get gen mat and head back for the return 25.
That total distance I covered was 100 taking the 'short cut', twice as long as the twice as long HRV path.
Now the raider thinks to themselves, if I had followed HRV, I maybe could have avoided those deaths, possibly saved time, and actually gained rank.
Raider conclusion: long HRV is better than any shortcut.
Its not always true, but it is usually a safer bet.
Condolences, my fellow builder.
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@Dreamnomad said:
How would you feel about a custodian skin that would unlock after 500 successful brutal raids? Seems like a good motive to me.
I'd throw custodian at the machine gears for that.
Brutals are often long and tedious. Large outposts, with long HRV paths, and over 100 traps. Thats spells 30 mintues for a slower cautious raider.
Nevermind having to start over everytime I forget to look up and get dead from a random impaler the builder put in to use up capacity thinking it would never get anybody.
If I am sinking that much time into an outpost I would like to have it amount to something more than just a black eye, a bloody nose, a thumbs up with a broken smile, and gen mat in hand.
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I find this list to also be highly accurate.
Well done again.
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I find this list to be highly accurate. Well done.
Also not 100% my personal preferences.
Differences for me:
"Mark tomb and dont trap them":
Trap away on the tombs; just try to make sure it doesnt pop the tomb or prevent acquiring the loot.
"Dont use duplicates traps in a room"
Dont spam traps (specifically plasma sentinels)
"Keep traps/guards to 6 or less"
If you make a kill box, make sure it has at least one solution (by testing it). If you can find it, somebody else can too.
One I would add would be:
Being able to see/reach the gen mat. If the outpost is a constant, die/start over slog, and 10 minutes in and I havent even caught sight of the gen mat, a lot of motivation goes out the window, along with accolades.
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A smoke trap was previously leaked (by a code diver) as one of the possible upcoming traps.
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I have used death pistions in the same way.
I helped cut down on the number of cubes for intel during the post gen mat corr cube exploit.
If their feet touch the exteded piston they die.
Blockade for more up time and the 'touch it and die' mod for running into from the side.
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@MadMoeZel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3426057#Comment_3426057
i do indeed do balance testing for many things. i break game economies as well. a few friends and i have a support ticket filed currently to removed a bug that lets flames go through solid objects, multiple floors/walls. i will give no further detail as i don't want this becoming common knowledge, it's game breaking with 0 counter play. i care a lot about fairness but i also care a lot more about rewarding people who put in effort and i've seen this game as a die to learn situation. i don't think that preforming poorly should be punished, but i think that once you made a conscious decision to be somewhere that quitting shouldn't be free. you could die once and quit, die five times and quit, or die 3 times and get genmat and get out, and it's all the same reward as far as rank is concerned. so theres no ranking reward to pushing yourself. this promoted a situation of people quitting which doesn't reward builders, doesn't help raiders grow. sure it may feel good to be able to just go in and quit, but we were given an extremely inexpensive boost from the suit advisor to gather information BEFORE we go in. so we can get information, go in, and then still decide not to play with no consequences. it feels like being treated like a child. do we really need bumpers on our bowling lane?
there are tons of large maps in normal, including mine. i have the game on SSD so my load times are minimal. and i scout maps with open bedrock on the picture. in and out in about 90 seconds. average of 100(80-120) of both parts and synthite each time for all 3 tombs, down to about 70 if you get 2. the thing about this is that it has minimal risk, and minimal frustration. it's like going mining for ore in the mountains and getting mosquitos after you compared to going into the den of 3-4 bears to do it.
i'd have to go into the den 25 times to level chimera and get 250 synthite going into normals. some of the maps i scout also have open genmat or a exposed fight map, i take it in that situation on the way out. but why waste the time going into an outpost and checking every angle or risking death or consumables? there is literally nothing to keep you in the map once you have that loot, trap loot is minimal, trap exp isn't important.
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3426172#Comment_3426172
feel free to block me. that's your loss. i'm one of the people actually raiding the brutal bases. I also make some of the harder content, but if challenges scare you i understand. the conversation isn't about prestige, it's about the fact that it costs synthite to keep the map alive and 1 death won't give you enough to do it. so i've taught others how who don't get enough deaths in their outpost because of the lack of punishment for quitting how to go get synthite at minimal risk. the tomb only hunters are countered by 2nd wave holo blocks on the tombs for 45 points on large maps, don't wanna get hunted, cover them up with completion required, be warned if you do that people are gonna block you for not giving them free tombs so enjoy having YOUR raider and outpost pool reduced for denying it. what you fail to understand is that the majority of the players in normal are these people. i've got the metrics. in the last several days including before the matchmaking update i've consistently seen 80%+ of all raids that i receive ignore art or challenge builds in favor of XP maps. raiders never cared about builders, they said that builders were all exploiters wile pulling ammo through solid objects, dragging guards to the map edge and killing them from outside their allowed pathing, reviving players through walls, grenading traps through walls.
the tomb hunting is a direct result of low raid count, and removal of punishment for quitting. there is no incentive to do the outpost because you keep your loot on quit. getting the genmat will almost always take longer and give you less resource for time spent given the current setup.
Hopefully, builders seeing this in replays will holo block the tombs as meta so people stop loot hunting and start running outposts.
I hope people decide to raid over blocking too.
I dont have enoigb faith in people to reasonably beleive that will happen. Would be nice tho.
I would say 'tomb hunting' is the result of the 'build only' mentality.
I raid for an hour or two a day and have plenty of synthite to maintain bases and get enoigh raids to take them to p10. (Openly sharing that I dont build large or brutal outposts.)
If all builders would just get some laps in on raids, their outposts could be maintained and the raider pool would be larger too.
I turned out 70 normals the other night in under two hours, gave 2 accolades to most builds (practicing to get better at speed running), to make up for the low death counts.
Tonight I raided 30 or so in dangerous and brutal to climb the LB, again 2 accolades to most builds.
Sitting on 5k synth after prestiging/reactivating 3 bases.
Gonna build a new outpost tomorrow and do some more raiding for an hour or two.
Its not really that bad to be a fully contributing member of this game community as a radier and a builder; You just have to want to do so, instead of looking for ways around it. Skirting the raids seems to take just about as much effort, But you do you.
Block me if you ever feel the need. My name here matches the one in game. I don't think I will be presented with a need to block you.
Wishing you the best in your tomb hunting/raids/builds.
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@hastarkis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3425237#Comment_3425237
>>How is a raider coming in, not being able to access tombs, then leaving and a raider coming in, looting tombs, then leaving: any different? They gain and you dont?
Difference is if they see/understand tombs were built into outpost they can try to get them OR they can even pass those outposts in the first place if it's pretty obvious from preview. As far as I understand, those people are trying to search for outposts high in the air or with visible tomb arrows on outside walls/bedrocks.
Yes, of course, you can't please all types of raiders but all those raiders who don't match with your base spend your matchmaking time. We don't know if deathless abandoning somehow affects matchmaking but could be that it doesn't affect it at all. So, like, you have some minimal visibility before you loose matchmaking boost. You only can get that many raids during that time. If all those raids go in, loot tombs and go out without even trying... that's frustrating af? It's not bad to try to suck them into your base with their greed. If they want tombs so bad they can try to find them inside and maybe even have fun playing. If they leave just because there's no free tombs outside then, well, I guess, not all outposts are built for players like those.
>>The number of raiders need to be equal to or greater than the number of builders. The solution is not punishing the dud raiders (effevtively punishing all raiders), but instead actively encouraging everyone to raid more.
To raid more. That's extremely correct. As for now "going in, looting tombs and going out" could be more profitable (due to awful RNG and corrosive floors which both can give you zero synth) and more desirable (due to time effectivness) than actual raiding. IMO, people should get synth for raiding not for tomb hunting :/
But you do get synth for raiding.
Every 9 outpost you get a +125 synth/parts
Every 5 advisor levels you get +250 synth/parts
Trap, guard kills, and even tombs are random to give synth. Popping a tomb and seejng all traps is a super sad moment.
Just wish that upon those tomb hunter/leavers lol.
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@MadMoeZel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3425650#Comment_3425650
Master 1 means nothing with no rank penalties. with 0 setback, literally anyone can climb. there is no longer a skill requirement for master 1 as there is no way to go backwards.
yeah, i'm gonna spend my time stockpiling a crap ton of low effort resources while i'm able to profit off this poor decision. because it's again, profitable. i can now farm synthite at a rate of over 3000 an hour doing this. so i'm gonna hit the currency cap.
you know what, yeah. i'm fine with this. builders no longer have to raid, they can just farm tombs and leave for no penalty. they made it so i don't have to raid anymore i can focus on my building. wonderful!
HEY BUILDERS, you don't actually have to beat bases anymore to build, just take tombs on the big maps and quit any that are blocked since there is no rank penalty, leave after getting tombs, don't do outpost. saves time, better profit per hour, less frustration, and you can go back to focusing on what you actually wanted to do. POWER TO THE BUILDERS!!!! BUILDER TO MASTER!!!
Lol. So going in and abandoning is still 1 death for the builder. With lowered prestige requimentsenoigh of those could carry an outpost to p10.
If you are alt+f4-ing it, builders can just block you. It right there in the screen under 'view profile' for the raider.
Perhaps just blocking these 'builder only, tomb hunter, alt +f4' players may be the way to go. It will shrink their radier pool for thier builds (the are so single mindedly dedicated too) and their build pool (for tomb hunting).
Soon these specific types of 'build only, tomb hunter, alt+ f4" player could be tomb hunting each. other and know what it is like to have a raider not give a care about the outpost you spent time and effort to create. Lol.
Most fitting, I think.
I recommend trying not be a selfish 'builder only' and give out a few legit raids daily. In my opinion it is very hypocritical and elitist to be like 'Legit raid my oupost, but I will never legit raid yours'
Sad that it may come to blocking people for this behavior. I usually disagree with 'cancel' culture; this game seems to have it ingrained into it though.
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@Nahasno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3425237#Comment_3425237
That's what i do except i find a trap combo or a room where i see a challenge then there can be more than 10 deaths before i ve seen the genmat but i think that's normal behavior for all players nobody wants to waste time all play for fun, however that is defined.
As i said i have no problem if people leave because they dislike it because of whatever i can't and don't even want to control what they do with their life.
I have a problem with the reduced number of raids overall in my outposts since the update and i fear it's because now all three outposts between rank 5 and ten i have, have more than enough prestige to rank up repeatitly. But should i if i had the orange upgrade all those to max possible? What do i get out of it except the cost of orange and some EXP ? I just looked the rank 5 has acutally enough prestige for 5 rank ups. I mean do we as builders get anything out of it if our outposts out run the pace?
My rank 10 runs it's last run and get's what 6 raids in 12 hours? I could activate and deactivate it - but i just set it to overdrive and set it to social when it runs out sad end for a good running outpost.
Early prestige on an outpost gives 10% more gen mat than letting it time down on its own.
More if you run the gen mat boost (+15%)
Some testing was done to see it gen mat plays into MMR LB rank (post master rank), inital results says it doesn't. There is a floating theory that 'mastered' outposts boost your MMR in the LB.
The question should be, do you think you will get more genmat in kills (possibly on overdrive) than if you just prestige early with boost.Becauae gen mat is what outpost mainly generate in twrms of recources.
Parts and synthite from bases is less than a raid, usually topped at 200 each (per outpost clean up) with the diminishing returns effect.
To the outstanding, elephant in the room, complaint of 'but I want to see my trap combo(s) do work', I would advise re implement the combo in another outpost.
The stongest counter point to 'I want my base to live forever' is 'You can just build it again, new and possibly even better'
Reusing the same combos is basically the same as the same base living forever, the main differnce being: as a raider, I will see the same combo mulltiple times across multiple outposts (in all its slight variations) versus the single time I will see an oupost over the course of its active life
...and the lack of effort on the builders part not to have to build. (Argument that builders can be just as lazy as raiders)
Consider this, 1 oupost to catch 100 raiders one time each - or - 100 outposts to catch each raider 100 times each.
That math on that works itself out pretty quickly.
I think the shortage on raids comes directly from many people 'only building' but not raiding. Can't live on the fat of the land, if there is no fat.
As builders we need to get out there, raid, and support other builders works: hoping they will do the same for us.
Some in this communtiy seems to think builders and raiders are seperate. They are not. All players are in both pools. If you are abstaining from either you are likely hurting the game. Raiders need builds to raid; builders need raiders to raid their builds.
Everyone can do both with varying degrees of success. So why not do both?
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So for me, at top out, I will make an assessment of effort required to win versus the gain.
If I have spent 10 active minutes and 3 deaths and havent even caught site of the gen mat (and die again) I am likely gonna bounce.
Not all outpost are built for players like me, so I leave my two accolades and be on my way.
As a builder, unless you are going go build your outpost with a solution in mind for all player types, some are going to 'tap out' on your build (sometimes even without trying).
The blocking holo cubes over tombs are likely to get you (stupidly) blocked, because of the high levels of raider 'entitlement' to tombs (though I find the idea of post gen mat access to tombs to be a great idea overall).
How is a raider coming in, not being able to access tombs, then leaving and a raider coming in, looting tombs, then leaving: any different? They gain and you dont?
Being spiteful about raiders who dont want to raid your build sounds kinda toxic.
In my opinion, Builders need to build to the interest of the raiders. They will always hold the keys to a build's success story.
If you build a killbox ans the raider deosnt want. speend run high adrenaline experience, they are gonnaa leave.
If you build an stroll through easy base, speed runner pro are gonna blaze through, 0 death, and not leave commends.
If you build a time sink maze, soem are gonna leave after 15 mintues of boredom and leave no accolades for wasting their time.
The point is, you cant please them all.
We need more raiders of all different types, period.
I think these 'builder only' players or dragging down the game by soaking up raids and not giving any back.
The number of raiders need to be equal to or greater than the number of builders. The solution is not punishing the dud raiders (effevtively punishing all raiders), but instead actively encouraging everyone to raid more.
Cheesy meta and spiteful oupost builds arent gonna do that. Be better than that.
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I wager the limitation is in the builder ptogramming itself.
It seems shapes can only be built by connecting the corners of a cube.
That being said the inverse of the wedge is missing and a shape similar to the second one depicted above; which would be wierd combo of a slope and a wedge.
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@MadMoeZel said:
there are only 2 situations i've found value from splatter. with chaos bombs bouncing into it to generate acid, or with it behind the player so when an enforcer misses it generates a puddle. if you come up with more, let me know.
When grappling stright down through one cube, the splatter goes up, the comes down on the raider, with close to 90% accuracy, chaining the corrosive damage from the pass throigh, resulting in a kill.
You might ask, " Why woud anyone grapple down through a cube?" A visible tomb just below a cube is a surprisingy effective bait for just such a scenario.
On the other note, I would (and often do) shoot things throught cubes that are not directly behind thrm, but nobody uses splatter.
Transversely, the community calls the post gen mat cube and exploit. I havent seen any confirmation from behavior that it is not working as inteded. Until the devs confim or deny the post gen mat cube as an 'exploit' I personally efrain from using it and will not reward anything to anyone due to them using the so called 'exploit'I have seen now a comment from MYM official, on a you tube video) saying the post gen mat cor cube is in fact not working as intended (exploit) and they are looking into correcting it.
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Double digits (less than 10)is my usual limit; unless I think I can beat it and I am just making dumb mistakes.
Time is a factor too. If it takes me 15 cautious minute to get to gen mat, to die to a burtal combo on the way out, I may not find it worth to complete.
I always make sure to proper abondon rather than 'alt+f4' though. You win, take my kill; Ill pack my thing and go.
Once I hit master I will prbably significantly care less. I'll not never achive a high enough space in the leaderboards to care about that, but re leveling trying to get to master sucks.
On the flip sid:e watching a 10+ kill replay goes from entertaining, to rooting for the raider, to painful to watch. I had a 28 kill replay and I felt ilke a monster for making the base after their 15th death.
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A well written summarization of the state of the game.
I would like to offer counter points a couple of things.
Synthite from Chimera level:
What is the math for added genmat gain boost at 30% for speed to level up the Chimera?
What about genmat gain with bases in overdrive?
I do both of these and mainly run Dangerous small bases. I may have to run more, but the runs are faster and easier (often 0 deaths and under 5 minutes). The Chimera level ups have been enough, plus synthite from tomb/trap destruction to maintain 5 bases consistently.
Synthite shortage leveling up versus endgame:
I completely agree that when you are trying to up raider gear, buy and upgrade traps/guards, and maintain bases; sythite is in short supply.
I have yet to get there, however, once I have all my gear/traps/guards, if I keep my same pace in raiding, I see myself building a surplus fairly quickly.
On the note of forcing builders to raid:
I dunno why builders seem to have this idea they should be able to just build 5 bases and expect the game to play and maintain itself while they continue go buy lots and build bases with almost no raiding. If nobody raids, bases go unused. Expecting 'somebody else will do it' isn't going to help this game succeed. Forcing builders to raid promotes the value of building.
Builders should be raiding just as much as non builders.
Examples for comparison
-5 builders (that dont raid) and 5 raiders.
25 maps. The 5 raiders get 25 runs each and never run the same map twice. 125 total runs, builders get 5 runs each (with varying results) and now have to make new bases
-5 Builders who also raid and 5 other non building raiders
25 maps, all 5 builders get 20 runs (obviously can't run your own bases) and the 5 raiders get 25 runs each and nobody runs the same map twice. 225 total runs. Builders get 9 runs each base, with varying results. and now have to make new bases.
Obviously this is a small slice of how the build/raid ratio works, but it should illuminate the 'supply versus demand' of builder and raiders, the importance of raiding as a builder, and how 'being forced' to raid promote the overall health of the game.
If you build, you likely undersrand wanting people yo raid your base, so pay itvforward and get out there and raid like there is no tomorrow (when not building of course)
If nobody built anything, the devs could/would likey build maps that never 'retire' (Like the first map everyone runs) and occasionally drop new map content to keep the game on 'life support' until players builders decide to build again.
The game slogan is 'Build. Raid. Upgrade." Not just 'build' or 'build and upgrade'; all three. Thatvraiding bit is very important.
The last I will counterpoint is the third bit about ranking;
Fun is subjective. I dont enjoy running against killboxes and dying, but I sure feels good to beat them. Sometimes I give up and abandon the raid. The builder gets a singke kill when their goal was likely 3-5 (from a poll result on the very forum).
Tieing back to the build/raider counter point; If more builders raided more the might realize killboxes the absolutely stifle progress are not great as raiders, if raiders dont raid, builders get nothing. The goal should be to make a bases just challenging enough to give them hope of winning while killing them as much as possible in the process. Its a very delicate balance and the 'meta' for it spans into social psychology, probabilty, etc; all way beyond just placing a trap with map builder.
Most everything else I agree with in your article.
In conclusion, I too love this game. I wish I had been able to participate in the alpha and beta, but I will continue to 'Build. Raid. Upgrade." until the game dies (which hopefully isnt anytime soon).
Hoping to see everyone raid my bases, regardless of the kill count; and I look forward to trying everyone's bases, even if I cant beat them killboxes and end up abandoning the raid attempt.
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I noticed this in my gameplay as well.
I think it may have something to do with the 'ricochet' mechanic.
Its rare, but bolts do bounce; in particular off armor (for crossbow bolts specifically)
It's also not beyond reason to think that the trap exploding throws the bolt back close enough to you to retrive it with you magical bolt retrieving abilities; but likely not working as intended.
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I have so many mixed feeling about your post.
I agree that raiders should strive to be better and not be afraid of losing a couple lives in the process.
On the flip side, riduculous spam of things, because builds are literally trying to achive a raider not getting the gen mat (then whine when they walk away from their base after a couple deaths,) is not good for the game.
This would all be different if/when everyone has everything availible.
All too often I see raider roll into my base with a big red 0 on their grenades, an empty hardwrae slot, a 2/2 bolt gun, and the basic blade. Many bases are gonna be hard when you arent prepared with gear or skill.
As a raider I dont enjoy spending a huge amount of time in a base just to run into post gen mat CC spam. Without the shield (often claimed to be op by builders) its really not a good time (for me).
If I give it my 100% (which admittedly isnt much) and I am crashing like a wave on your killbox or long difficult base, I am out. You got your kills. I give up, your gen mat isnt worth it. Moving on.
So far, I only felt one person deserved a block (like within my first 10 raids) They wasted 30 mintues of my time on a long boring base. I died to a random dart trap and really didnt want to do it again. They had killed Harvey at the start (which I have since learned how to fix) probably to hide the real path to the genmat.
Even now, I have considered unblocking them as my decision was hasty and based on inexperince.
As much as this post makes sense, the majority of the gamers want easy raids to top out master and gain resources to unlock stuff. This bring me back to; once everyone has everything, their tune might change a little bit.
As more content releases, the gap between newb and veteran will grow even greater. It is unclear how that will affect the state of the game.
Enjoyed reading your contrasting thoughts on the game.
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I ran into a base that was using the 'cube post gen mat line of sight' exploit with the cubes above.
I shot through the cube to get the flame trap behind it on the ceiling... and splat a face full of corrosive.
If the base wasnt abusing the exploit, I would have given an 'ingenious' accolade for setting up a corrosive cube splatter that got me.
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I am respectfully curious here:
What does proper rewards for building look like to you guys? Like actual numbers of reward, speed of progression, and such.
I read the above complaints and some of it I understand (not getting acolades, nobody running the base), but I also dont build to have the bases level me or think I can 'survive' on the synthite they generate; I usually have to raid for that.
Maybe I am just not where you are at yet. I didnt ever think hitting 'master' was something I would be able to do (im really mediocre at raiding) so I didnt care much about it either. I think gold IV is quite impressive from my bronze III standing.
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@TragicSolitude said:
Have people been thinking the Outpost names are unique? The Outpost name is just randomly pulled from a list of real-world locations. Putting an Outpost name into the Social search will usually bring up more than one instance.
This is why things like shaming and "hey, watch out for X Outpost" are dangerous.
Yes, I did in fact think they were unique (while active at least.) and thet they were recycled when the lot was destroyed.
Gives me hope to get some cool well known city names like Las Vegas or Baton Rogue. Maybe even get back my first, Red Lion that destroyed by accident even before made active. (I thoight 'destroy' was the command for 'strip outpost'. Whoopsies)
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I apologize. I didnt mean to offend with my ironic quote.
It was soemthing I read long ago in regards to people complaining about 'balancing' in another game. After reading so many complaints from both builders abour raiders being to strong and raiders about builder making bases that are 'unbeatble'; it seemed apporopriate.
I am of the mind that raiders are supposed to get the Gen Mat; no matter what. I see raiders as the heroes and builders as the villians. I enjoy being a builder (villian) in this game.
From my perspective, villains are suposed to lose. My interest comes from the heroes' journey and them overcoming the trials placed before them.
I would only find issue with a raiders power if every and any combonation of raider equips resulted in no trap ever being effective; except by maybe random chance or the raider making a mistake.
Melee, ranged, defensive, fast, and slow raiders all have their unuque weaknesses. Until a day comes that they don't (and everyone 0 deaths runs ecerything I build) I dont see an issue.
If you feel the opposite, we can agree to disagree.
Respect to you and wishing you the best in your builds.
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@magic1236 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/372979/i-want-sticky-grenades
pff, why use them like that. Instead during co op stick them on your partner so they can go on a suicidal breaker charge XD
I just realized that would be an intresting suit perk. Maybe only viable in co op, but one where when you die you explode destroy stuff in an X distance
'Ok buddy, hold this, run in there, and hug something."
"I dont like the sound of this plan...'
"It will be fine, Ill rez you after"
Doesnt rez them. Gets the get mat and leaves.
Diabolical and I love it.
On the suit mod idea: The consunable pheonix item makes thst work. They ciyld also build in a thing that drops a pheonix, and started your self detonation timer. When you pop, you rez where you activated the suit.
This idea needs to happen. The builder gets a kill and the raider solves a kill box. I see no down side here. Everbody wins.
On the note of stickies; I agree if the blast radius is smaller or you get even less than 2 of them.
I have made builds/seen builds with grenades in mind. Deep slopes and pits for grwndaes to go iff into useless nothingess. Stickies would defeat all that.
So while I agree with the use to destroy plasma cubes, I disagree with the unexpected uses that counter other valid building techniques that would come from it.
I hope for a happy medium sticky-nade somehow.