FunkadelicPeach
FunkadelicPeach
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- FunkadelicPeach
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unfortunately the game has (in recent years) really catered to the killer player base, and so some survivor players are upset whenever there is an easy win for the killer. Just the nature of the game, I suppose. Don't let em bug ya, they are likely losers too
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@C3Tooth said:
I think the perk can not be buffed further, given its most possibility to give you 7 BNP. But the gameplay is not the same on paper.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/57SLSU9M8WX9/image.png
- Use it early game: 0 Gen done. David in chase. Vitto, Renato and you do are free
Its still better to have 3 survivors on 3 different Gens, than to have 1 of them sits in the basement. And being Broken for the rest of the match from the beginning is a huge risk.
- Use it mid game: 2-3 Gens done. David, Vitto, Renato taking heat.
When the gameplay become a loop of 1 in chase - 1 on hook - 1 go unhook. Spend 2min in basement while other 3 keep taking the heat is a quick downfall to the team.
- Use it late game: 4 Gens done. Possible one of the team dies (David) at least.
Now to think, why would anyone spend 120sec to exchange permanent 30sec that split into 3 different Gens? And you can not leave Vitto on hook while Renato in chase.
Do you think this perk will be popular? Or may be they will buff the perk further to make people buying Sable then hard nerf after and remove the Invocation concept out of existence like Boon and Teamwork?
you get 70 seconds of generator progress (actually only 50 seconds, because 2 of the gens will never need to be finished) for 120 seconds of work, AND you become wounded and broken? Super bad design and promotes unfun gameplay of people sitting in the basement. If it was 70 seconds of generator progress for 60 seconds of work in the basement, then that would actually finally make sense because there is at least a tangible benefit from doing it? Or it could be 70 seconds of gen progress for 120 seconds, BUT remove the dumb wounded and broken status effect part.
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@RhysVMT said:
yeah the games beyond miserable survivor side, especially soloq. 11 games today and minus the three unknown games, 8 were all A/S tier killers slugging/tunnelling/proxy camping and trading at 5/4 gens. games boring, sticking to killer for now as its literally switch brain off mode atm
I literally agree with everything you said here. I tried to verbalize this in a super long post I made a few hours ago, but this nails it. Well said.
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@Sandt1985 said:
If the slow down gets an across the board nerf AGAIN, then gen times need to be increased again. Its really that simple
LOL! nope. Going from 65 seconds, to 70, then to 80, now 90, AND with more brutal slowdown perks than we've ever had before? We definitely don't need to encourage survivors to hold m1 on generators any longer than they already are, just as we don't need to encourage killers to run horrible slowdown perks. There should be a middle ground where chase and teamwork are prioritized over gen-holding, or gen-rushing.
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@Soval said:
The other issue is that there is literally no penalty of just tunneling off hook repeatedly and killing someone at 4-5 gens left, then repeating. In fact the optimal playstyle is to just find the weakest looper and do exactly that since pain resonance and pop are still at full strength.
There needs to be a better balancing mechanism against killers that play like that, and for killers that struggle with getting their first down before losing 3 generators.
THIS^^ It's super easy to guarantee a 4k and just trust your perks to keep them slowed down enough to get your first 3 hook. If they try to go for a rescue you can just proxy. It's a brutal and unfun playstyle, but it works so well right now with these perks!
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This is not cool :/ those guys are losers.
The new killer is hard to learn, but super strong. I hope you enjoy playing him! :) Once you get the hang of him, you'll be able to easily guarantee a 3k or 4k!
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@Yharwick said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3674034#Comment_3674034
No it's true back when the game was easier to data mine it got revealed the ratio was something like 4 killers for every 100 survivors much below the ratio needed for a reasonably fast queue and it was the closest DBD ever got to actually collapsing and dying and is IMO what spurred the massive 6.1 changes.
This was back when hatch spawned with 2-3 people still in the game DH was the most broken perk in the game and the DS/Unbreakable combo was rampant. Killer was miserable to play at that time as it felt like you needed permission from survivors to play the game as you had so many perks to deny hooks and downs.
Is the game too far in the other direction now? Hard to say I do well in both roles so I have a hard time thinking it's that horribly balanced although killer is undeniably the easier role now IMO I don't think that's the worst thing in the world given this is a horror game. The ease of killer should probably be toned down but I have zero problem with killer being the "power role" so to speak as a threat should have teeth to it otherwise it's not worth overcoming.
I do think that killer should remain the "power role" it would be cool if this meant that survivors could still escape and/or not be removed from the match so quickly. For example, digging more into the "horror" aspect, making chase more lucrative and rewarding, and truly surprising, scaring, or catching survivors off guard. It would be cool if it could be more like that rather than controlling gameplay styles of survivors, and getting 3k average against solo queues. I have a big issue with the fact that, if a killer wants you out of the game, you will get out of the game, no matter what. That's a bummer.
I believe you about the queue times. That is interesting. That sounds like a problematic time to be playing as killer, for sure. If i recall correctly, they released the "target goal" of 60% win rate around this time, and posted (happily) that they achieved this in September of 2022. Sept 2022 balance felt much better than it currently does, IMO. What do you think?
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@Sava18 said:
Your lucky to have 40% win rate as survivor.
Don't spout stats when you can't factor out your own bias.
Survivors have many ways to throw and/or leave the game EVERY GAME. I just listed 8 things a few days ago so I won't now.
Survivors want to be inefficient, survivors are inefficient. One totem, one archive, one rift, one corner map self care, one fruitless flashlight save, not splitting.
While I do understand where you are coming from, I think the "you're* lucky to have 40% win rate as a survivor" is not a healthy statement for the longevity and community of the game. This is textbook patronizing and condescending language. Why do you feel survivors are "lucky" to have 40%? Don't you agree that "balanced' would mean 50/50 on both sides? My personal opinion (as stated in the post) is that survivors should ideally be slightly more catered to, since that would mean more players are having a positive experience, in any given game.
Lastly, you listed off a few survivor-objectives that you seem to have a negative opinion of. Why shouldn't survivors be able to do totems, self heals, rifts, objectives, etc? Shouldn't we be encouraging more playstyles rather than just "m1 on generator"? It'd be cool for survivors to be able to experiment with different gameplay like this without it being excruciatingly punishing for the rest of the players in the match. Especially with newer players who are still trying to figure the game out and will likely spend more time cleansing, exploring, hiding, etc. These are valid playstyles, even if they aren't yours (or mine, either, lmfao).
What do you think? Interested to hear more, of course
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3674027#Comment_3674027
You commented on my post where I said that you need killers to be able to play the game.
I get you don't care about the killer experience and you just want easy escapes, but the fact is having those means you'll struggle to get games bc who will want to play killer in that state.
Not to mention the devs do give survivors stuff, it's not like killers are the only one getting stuff. Mangled literally just got nerfed and facecamping was recently killed as a playstyle.
Also for the record despite a new chapter released with a new killer today, and I personally saw a 100% bonus for killer the entire night. So people are still playing survivor in high enough numbers that there wasn't even enough killer players to even the queue times. You don't need special treatment because you lost some games.
I appreciate the points you bring up here. I addressed them all in some other replies, as well.
I never advocated for "easy escapes". I simply think the stats of the game should reflect a positive experience for the majority of the player base, rather than the minority. This is currently not the case, and i am feeling it, tonight. lol.
A few minutes before responding to you, I posted the last 5 major updates and shown just how much killer has been prioritized over survivor. It's been pretty rough. Check that post out, if you have the time.
I had a BP bonus for survivor, all night ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. It's anecdotal data, just like yours. My problem isn't with anecdotal data (me losing 16 games in a row tonight. I understand that can "just happen" sometimes, and I am OK with that). My problem is with the actual official stats of the game (patch notes, escape rate, balance, etc) catering to the minority of the player base. I hope that makes a bit more sense.
I do understand where you are coming from. Killer players are really important. It would be cool if there was a way to adjust these stats and balance the game more towards the majority of the players having a good time, without making it un-fun for killer. I think this is possible, still. Getting 1k or 2k should feel more rewarding, and not baseline/expected, like it is right now. The way it is right now (statistically) relies on more than half of the player base "losing" and getting removed from the game more than half the time, and I think that's unhealthy and unacceptable. What do you think?
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@JudyIscariot said:
I have ~1400 hours split just about evenly between Survivor and Killer. Doing a spot check of my stats, if I'm reading the DBD info site I have close to a 70% escape rate (personally I'm taking that with a grain of salt as I am skeptical). About 60/40 split for me on solo / swf (typically duos).
While I can understand the frustration at losing streaks sometimes, I just can't see a world where an individual on a team should be capable of guaranteeing an escape. The power of survivors is in numbers and working together - if every single person were able to guarantee an escape for themselves, it would effectively mean that everyone would escape every time.
You mentioned "Gen rushing" under your post in the game issues section but traditionally that refers to survivors rushing generators so I'm not sure what the complaint there is.
All that being said, I'd really love to see some anti-tunneling protection available for newer players without them buying the Halloween DLC / Zarina - losing the Stranger Things base perks really highlighted the need for a base perk overhaul for both sides. Many of them are bad or outright traps. I'd also love a little more 'signaling' for solo queue so you can let people know you're headed for a rescue, but I'm guessing we won't see that.
I don't think that "Git gud" is useful advice. I do however think that it's important to analyze what you're doing in game and whether you could have done anything differently / what mistakes were being made. Sometimes you get hard tunneled or your teammates are having a corner party doing the beckon gesture at someone's butt. Other times it's bad pathing, bad awareness, or lack of killer knowledge.
Obviously I can't talk you out of being mad about a string of bad games, but maybe take a break or take a while and play killer. I promise it is not all sunshine and rainbows on that side of things when you're playing a mid tier killer against decent survivors.
I appreciate the anecdotal stats, I really do! You seem to be very good at the game, and that is awesome. I am not that awesome, and I am making my post mostly as an "average player". The stats that I see of SWF escaping roughly 30-40% of the time posted by BHVR is optimistic. My personal stats post-update have been 16 games played, and zero escapes. Again - anecdotal data. It's just my word vs someone elses, ofc.
I've never had a "streak" I can be frustrated over, on survivor (maybe 3?). My best killer streak for 3k or higher was 14, on dredge, back in December. Again - I am not a "good" killer or survivor player. Just average.
Anecdotal data aside, the 30-40% escape rate BHVR reports for solo queue escapes is just plain abysmal to experience, especially as a newer/more average player. This is raw data directly from them that highlights a problem for the vast majority of their player base (survivors), and doesn't even include games where players disconnect (which is a lot, during solo queue).
Gen rushing is a problem, IMO. Gen rush perks and toolboxes are boring and make the game more about "how quickly can I get back to this generator and hold left click" rather than teamwork or chase, which I find to be more engaging.
I really appreciate your post. You seem to be above all of this emotional gameplay I am experiencing, lol. I wish I could be more like you and share your perspective. It seems very objective. Keep up the level headed approach! It's really a breath of fresh air.
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@kit_mason said:
I aint reading all that
you need 5 people to make a match, stop arguing that you should only ever cater to survivors because if nobody plays killer you wont be able to play either
Bummer you don't want to read the post but still chose to respond! You have time to share your opinion but not try to see from others perspectives! That is part of the problem I tried to highlight in my post...
Your response seems to be mostly "deal with it", which a lot of us survivor players have been doing, for the last year or so as this problem has progressively gotten worse.
If you actually chose to read the post you will see that I am not advocating for "only catering to survivors". I simply think the balance should be closer to 50/50 (kill vs escape), or maybe 60% escape, 40% kill, since more players will get to experience the "winning" aspect of the game, with killers still being able to guarantee secure at least one kill per match.
Additionally, I mentioned this in another response above yours that it seems like you didn't take the time to read before sharing your opinion on the subject... - Killer players think they are super important but in reality they aren't (again, back to that ego/power complex thing. It's real!). They only need to make up 20% of the player base, and I think right now it's closer to 40-45% if the stats I read were correct (which they very well may not be. I'll admit). If some healthy changes to the game make some people pick up survivor instead of killer, that would be healthy for the game. Decreasing queue times and helping SBMM be more accurate.
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@coolgue1 said:
They can buff killers sure but they need to make playstyles thay are easy for the killer to force a win down the drain it dont matter if the make killer the most op thing people will still take the most easy way out and try to call it or skill even doe we all k ow it now u can buff the cannibals Cain say all you want but at the end of the day most will still camp and trade hooks because that what easy not about having fun or playing the game it just about winning and that all killer care about these day not about having fun or play the game or getting good plays in it all about winning at any cost regardless of what gets introduced
I think I understand the point you are trying to make? Yes - There are definitely a lot of killers who will try to get a "W" by any means necessary, even if it means toxic and unfun playstyles. I don't think this is every killer though (we don't have 100% of the killer base playing nurse with iri-add-ons, lol). Seems to be anecdotal. Most of my issues with the game right now are direct faults of developers action to cater to the minority of their playerbase. It'd be cool if there was a culture shift and recognizing that this is unhealthy for the longevity of the game.
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@Xernoton said:
We've been there, tried that and it didn't work out.
Back in 2021 we had a time when pretty much nobody wanted to play killer and yet many survivors still weren't happy. And the kill rates weren't that bad either. The queue times for survivors back then however were 10+ minutes (almost all day iirc) but the killer queue times weren't longer than 10 seconds.
Interesting. This seems mostly anecdotal (I haven't been able to find any stats on this in the few mins I've been trying to research your claim). To counter, I will simply say that, anecdotally, I was getting faster queue times in 2021 and 2022 than I currently am. I am NA West.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3673977#Comment_3673977
I would like to see you play a game of dbd with no one playing killer.
Hmm. you seem to have not read my post. I said with currently 40-45% of the player base being killer mains, a few could definitely leave and it would be no problem, since only 20% of the playerbase needs to be killer, at any given point. I never advocated for zero killer-mains... You seem to be falling into the "I'm a killer and without me the game wouldn't exist" ego trap. Keep an eye out for that! It's not healthy for the game or the community. :)
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3673961#Comment_3673961
Please list these "countless" killer buffs. I can think of maybe a couple. I can also think of a few survivor buffs. Both sides have been adjusted over the years, and there hasn't been one side that has seen a disproportionate amount of buffs or nerfs.
7.6.0 -
The Unknown is one of the most broken killers ever introduced to the game. Not overpower perks, but really strong map control, chase, and special attack. (both sides agree about this)
unbound, unforseen, undone are all stronger than wicked, weaving spiders, and strength in shadows (subjective)
Greenville Square has bad map balance (both sides agree about this)
Huntress buff
Hag buff
Pig Buff
Doctor buff
Deme buff
Clown Buff
Blight Buff
7.5.1 -
Billy Buff
Onryo Buff
7.5.0
FOV buff
Gen tapping removed
7.4.2
Trickster Buff
Batteries Included Buff
7.4.0
MFT nerf
Stranger things perks removed from common bloodweb (net negative for all players, but 6 perks lost for survivor and 3 lost for killer)
Red Forest map size reduction
Garden of Joy main house nerf
7.3.0
Skull merchant buff
Trapper Buff
Huntress Buff
Deathslinger Buff
Legion Buff
Trickster Buff
7.2.0
Ultimate Weapon introduced (overpowered)
Knight Buff
Demo Buffed
7.1.0
5 killer perks buffed, 1 nerfed
3 survivor perks buffed, 6 nerfed
Cowshed nerf
Spirit Buff
Hag buff
Need me to keep going? In contract survivors have gotten
- anti face camp
- gens can only be kicked 8 times (instead of unlimited)
- Mangled nerf
- background player buffed
Those are literally the only things we have gotten. And most of those things affect literal game-breaking playstyles that toxic killers have tended to use more and more recently (3 gen locking and face camping). Only the Mangled nerf and Background player buff have actually had a positive effect on survivor players that does not directly address a problem with the core playstyles of the game.
Both sides have been adjusted, yes. Survivor mostly Quality-of-life improvements, while killer gets actual movement speed, reload speed, special power, and perk buffs. Hope this helps.
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@Crowman said:
Doesn't matter how many survivor players there are, you guys still need someone to play killer if you want to play the game.
Since the killer is facing 4 individual characters, they need to be slightly stronger. There was a time not so long ago when survivors had long queue times bc the game heavily favored them.
Not really. Killer players think they are super important but in reality they aren't (again, back to that ego/power complex thing. It's real!). They only need to make up 20% of the player base, and I think right now it's closer to 40-45% if the stats I read were correct (which they very well may not be. I'll admit). If some healthy changes to the game make some people pick up survivor instead of killer, that would be healthy for the game. Decreasing queue times and helping SBMM be more accurate.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
Looks like someone just created to an account to complain after they probably deservedly lost a match
Lost 11 matches (in a row) actually. 900hrs on survivor. I do think there is a "skill issue", to some extent (i am not the most incredible player out there. probably average). But that's kinda my point. The "average player"s experience as survivor has gotten worse, while killers have had their hand held through countless buffs, changes, and new introductions of mechanics. I just wish survivor (the majority of the playerbase) got the same treatment, like they used to!
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@Ilikechips said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3673943#Comment_3673943
"I an asymmetrical game, one person is supposed to mostly win and the other people are supposed to mostly lose that is the definition of balanced".
I don't agree with op's reverse 60-40 rule but I do agree with the sentiment of the post. Survivor is absolute ass to play. All of the fun of playing survivor just keeps getting sucked away by the devs. They seem to have some fascination with buffing killers even though noone asked for those buffs and taking from survivors.
They say they want a 60% kill rate but I personally believe 70% is the real target.
The only fun thing that I can think of that survivors received in years was the HUD addition. Everything else was either a hand holding mechanic that does your job for you or removal of mechanics/fun. All items nerfed into the ground. Any fun perk obliterated into uselessness thanks to their logic if if people use them they must be too strong. Increasing the amount of time doing skillchecks, reducing chase time and removing interactions between killer and survivor.
The long term trend for survivors fun is trending down. Latest patch was a massive amount of killer buffs (see my 70% target above). Not even a single perk buff for survivors.
The trend is your friend. It will only get worse for survivor players.
I agree with this. It'd be nice if they stopped making survivor the most lukewarm, bland, role to play. Adding some more fun items or buffing "fun" perks that add some spice to the game would help me forget about the lack of balance, even for a bit (kinda like the halloween event did, this past year. I loved that month!).
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@BlackRabies said:
Gave up ready after the 3rd line. You not know how an asymmetrical game suppose to work? The one killer player needs to have more power than the 4 survivor players. If you want a 'balanced' asymmetrical game go play Death Garden and see how that game turned out.
I knew there would be people like you! Bummer. Closed minded, loud, and unable to listen to others perspectives. Selfish way to think about the community of the game you love.
Before DBD, asym games mostly consisted of genres where it was "how many (survivors) can you take down before you are taken down, yourself". It was never "the powerful presence gets to kill the entire (survivor) team, almost every time". Think of Halo Juggernaut, Evolve, BO2 turned, Far Cry Instincts: Predator, and even early-day DBD. It's only recently that people (like you) seem to think that "asymmetrical PVP" means that the "powerful" presence should get priority, and be able to get the majority of the "wins" against the larger, less powerful playerbase.