Efrost
Efrost
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3886065#Comment_3886065
You're missing the point. I am not asking for the last 2 survivors to serve themselves up on a plate and lay down to be moried. I am asking you to finish the game. Do your objective. Hide when you NEED to. Period. Nothing more nothing less. Stop hiding for long periods of time and bouncing from locker to locker to locker…
You are missing the point as well. There is no reason to. The main objective for the surviors is to get out. There is no benefit to doing a generator if unwinnable. The reason they hide is for hopes of a hatch, which will in turn let them have a chance to achieve the objective of escaping. Therefor saying just do a gen is pointless because it will not get them towards the objective. They need to incentivize survivors when they are at a massive disadvantage, much like they gave killers multiple extra attempts at securing kills even if the match was unfavorable for them, Ex. Various survivor perks being disable in end game, perks like Noed, fire up, and remember me. Also with the new anti go next. The game could in theory detect that you are going next when getting caught on a gen or whatever dumb tools they use to detect it and you still get penalized, I EASILY see that system failing its job and punishing people incorrectly, (a killer tunnels a player out fast they get penalized, a Survivor gives up on their second hook to try to give the last survivor hatch, Penalized, Survivors will get punished for trying to utilizing what little skill or agency they have.) If you want survivors to do the objectives and continue the game then they need a buy in to having a chance at completing the overlying objective of the game for them which is to survive. And none of those changes do that so I do not believe you will see much improvement in behavior.
These changes go counter to what they recently been pushing. Example, They are listing that a surrender moment for killers is if all the players are bots, yet in the most recently 2v8 they are adding bots. If the anti hiding feature is going to instantly reveal someone why are we waiting until the third crow to make the body blocking stop, the first crow will reveal that players locations to the killer so now you just have someone still trapped who the killer knows their spot too. Blood point incentives are literal trash and I don't think anyone is excited at the prospect of hanging in for a longer match that is unwinnable to get a little bit more of the useless points. -
I think its rather funny that people think this will fix que times. Because it seems like a large amount of the survivors dont want to play with bots. So dispite getting 2 free spots with bots. You will have less players participating… because of the bots. I could totally see this go the opposite direction and the que times get even worse. Especially after round or two of seeing how useless bots are with 2 killers playing.
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There just isnt a very viable option for this. If you drop to 4 survivors. The amount of buffs you would have to do is insane. Simply because of the sheer amount of pressure you could do as 2 killers. Each find 1 survivor and down them now the other 2 are in an almost unwinnable situation. Or tunnel one out easy. Hook states do nothing to fix this problem so they arnt good nor is dropping gen counts down. Even with 6 player you still have these problems. If the fantasy is the killer being powerful. you are then removing that fantasy because you have to buff the survivors by a large amount to compensate the 2 killers.
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Its beyond crazy the benefits the killers get in that realm to the survivors smoke bomb. Looking past the Exhausted and broken and the fact that killers gain undetectable and can still use all powers. But them getting a audio AND visual que that shows you are still in there is insane. I dont understand how they think that's remotely balanced. It removed all incentive to use the feature because the killers gains so much from it and the survivor loses everything. Cant even try to do any sort of interesting play with the smoke bombs or the teleports as the killers just has to see if they get the audio que or the icon next to the name. They really botched it with this one.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3818702#Comment_3818702
Name one. Which one is straight-up not usable anymore?
Spine chill, Iron Will (until the recent change), Calm Spirit (Which still has a nasty negative effect for such a small niche), Adrenaline, Bardic, Mettle of Man, Boil over. How many do you want?
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You cant really nerf survivors baseline aside from changing just how healing or gens work. You could hit their movement speed at which point you wouldn't have anyone playing survivor
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@crogers271 said:
It depends what you mean by skill.
There's macro skill. Making decisions about when to take chase, where to take chase, and which perks give the most value.
There's micro skill. Hitting powers as a killer, timing loops as a survivor, those types of things.
Then there's mind games and 50/50s where we get into the game of trying to make educated guesses about what the opposition is going to do.
I don't think any of those have changed, except maybe 50/50 situations becoming a little less common, but in my experience players aren't giving up anymore than they used (it is, and has been, a problem). Windows and Lithe aren't new and have always been really common perks, so I'm not sure why you highlight those.
What are you talking about. Nothing has changed, the devs have been removing almost all risk out of killers kit. That easily impacts the micro play level
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@bjorksnas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3778934#Comment_3778934
Hatch spawn being random means its close to a ~40 - 50% chance to find it depending on the killer before they do, bringing an offering almost always means if they have mobility the killer closes the hatch unless you also have a key
Keys are strong items blood amber + prayer beads on a skeleton key is 22.5s of aura reading, which can absolutely destroy line of sight based 50/50s and a lot of mindgames, you don't need one to anticipate losing you can instead just bring one of the strongest items in the game.
Key odds from a chest are 1% for skeleton key and 1% for a purple key, (without any perks) so its still a chance to get a key and escape, much like a 4% its a last ditch effort but its still part of the overall so it is included..
Door spawn rng does not create 0 agency because if you see a close door spawn there is another strategy you can employ with the hatch which is to wait at a door until the killer finds the hatch to open them, if the hatch is far enough from both doors or if the killer goes to the wrong one first even if its a good spawn you will get out, especially with certain perks
Its not a free chance to get out every time but importantly its a chance
Old hatch was silly because it was a chance to win before you should win
Antifacecamp doesn't exist in endgame because theres just nothing else to do anymore, you don't have gens to go defend, by the time most chases are finished and survivors are hooked in endgame both doors are 99ed, you can't expect a a killer to just say well this was fun have a good escape and leave the hook to go chase someone by a 99ed door
Free key when endgame collapse begins is silly because there already are 3 perks to easily find chests and one of them even finds the hatch, how fun is a hatch race then defending the doors when the survivor in the background instantly finds the chest then instantly finds the hatch without any interaction (not very)
Doors on the opposite sides of the map are just very survivor sided having door rng be more of a coin flip is just more fair for both regular gameplay and for endgame 1v1
If hatch spawns furthest from gates a new standoff will occur where a killer just stands on top of hatch till they see the survivor on top of it being predictable because its in a near set spot just triangulate the doors
All of these changes just say "if you don't slug for the 4k and leave things up to chance I want a better chance of winning" which is silly because all that will happen is the real thing that takes away agency will occur (slugging for the 4k so none of these changes matter most of the time)
Survivors already had tons of chances and tons of prep they could have done to help give them better odds in these situations on top of just "winning" the game the point of these situations is that it semi rewards the killer with odds in their favor for likely not slugging for the 4k
Do you even read some of the stuff you are typing. "Tons of prep they could do to have better odds". The game shouldnt require you to prepare significantly to have a chance at escape especially if the Devs claim that players should at all situations feel like they have an option. But your claiming, no it is fine for survivors to be in zero agency situations when they don't have a key. Which is basically the only "prep" option you really are offering aside form standing at a gate with Sole Survivor and Wake up. Nothing else resolves this issue and to do that you have to be willing to give up two perks which could be better suited to aiding your team mates, as well as have perks from pay wall characters. Its just bad design.
As for your finding chest reasoning its quite silly. Especially since you talk about how useful a key is with the right add ons to offer looping potential. Yet you think bringing two perks that are basically worthless other wise instead of bringing things that could help progress gens or loop. Just seems a bit counter to what you are trying to argue. Let alone even if you had both perks both of which are range restricted so you pretending that you would instantly know where they are is over the top. The hatch one sits at 32 feet. Which isn't much further then when you would hear the thing. You still have to traverse the map to find the chest as the perk has a range on it, as well as the hatch itself. Which puts you at risk of being found by the killer. Because you are on a time crunch so walking is not going to be the best route for that. You also have to factor in that you are assuming that the spawning of the hatch is always in a fortune place which is not true let alone the new chest. Furthermore if it was a feature that was added killers would have reason to check near the hatch or chest if they happen to notice one at a place it wasn't before. The risk/reward for a chest spawning that has a key is significant enough that Its not really a silly idea.
As for the gates spawning on opposite sides it creates reason for killers to have to move. As of now its far too common that a killer can stand in a single spot and watch both gates. It creates both highs and lows, your argument that the current system is more fair is irrelevant, the argument is do both side of the players have agency. And with how it currently is there is far too many situations in which survivors have none, unless you have to plan out entire builds on the prospect of your entire team dying which in turn hinders your own team even more.Killers complained that with the old hatch system that if they performed poorly, they felt they didnt have any agency in the match. And devs said sure we feel that players should always feel like they have an option available and removed that element. Even though if they had all 5 gens pop at that point and all survivors alive they have basically lost you claim that they still could manage something. The only thing that they can do is down someone and face camp them in hopes survivors try to be autistic and make mistakes. And as the match continues to wear on options for survivors kiting diminishes as the pallet count drops. The Devs felt that if you are in end game collapse you should be able to secure a kill no matter what even if you have kills. Its a system they added to give killers more agency whether they already have some or not and by then even downing someone shouldnt be overly difficult as most resources should have been exhausted. But if survivors are given situations where they don't have any options they just have to wait out the timer or give up which creates more negative experiences within the game itself.
But if a survivor is in a situation where the killer has done everything well. They don't get the luxury of having tons of possible solutions. The killer can slug in hopes of buying 4 more mins of looking for the survivor. The devs removed the ability for the survivor to leave giving their teammates the chance at escape. They also can drop the dying survivor over and over in hopes that the survivor will work with the killer to give the location of that last play. Despite this being against the rules as it is a reportable aspect of play. No the survivors have to rely on a lucky hatch spawn, or that the killer is not one with crazy mobility and The killer chooses the wrong door. Unless they want to come into the match significantly weaker then their teammates as they have to bring 2 perks at minimum to help get the door open faster. And even that is hard countered by 1 perk from the killer. Regardless of what you think, there is plenty of situations that without and preparedness are not good for the survivor. And the fact that you have to go through all of that to just prevent that situation from occurring. When it should in fact be addressed by the developers because it goes against their design philosophy unless they want to openly admit that their claim for player agency was only intended for killers.
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@bjorksnas said:
Well what do you do
You lost 3 teammates and they didn't slug for the 4k probably
You lost the hatch race
You didn't bring of find a key
They get a good door spawn
They got into a good spot to defend both doors
You lost but you had a bit of a chance every step along the way without forcing the killer to go out of their way to force a 4k
Problem becomes if you buff anything down this list the prospect of just slugging for the 4k becomes an even better option for securing 4ks
What an inane way of thinking. Hatch is RNG dependant unless you bring a offering which means you are anticipating losing. Bringing a key is also anticipating you are losing, Finding a key in RNG dependant. Door Spawn is RNG and creates 0 Agency situations. This is not you had every chance to get out. This is if you are lucky you might get out. There isnt skill expression. There isnt player agency.
If we use your thought process then lets bring back old hatch. Why should the killer get to have a chance at kills if they spent the entire match chasing someone. But they do and whats worse is if they do down that player. The game rewards them in the end game by removing features that would allow that player to potentially escape like the anti face camp system, or certain perks, Because as the devs have said "Player agency is important". But only if that player is the Killer, Seeing as how survivors can be put into zero agency situations.
The solutions for this is simple too either:
-They should when end game collapse starts. Spawn another chest that will 100% have a key that they can use. Which doesnt spawn near the gates.Or
-Code in it so that the gates have to be opposite sides of the map.
Or
-Make it so that hatch spawns furthest away from the gates.
Any one of these gives the survivor a greater chance. Though id argue that perks like No way out should also be disabled when you are in a 1v1 situation in the end game as it's a 0 Player agency situation regardless. Its silly to argue that its fine for survivors to have 0 agency moments, but killers are not allowed to have them.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3777462#Comment_3777462
Not having hatch, and instead giving killer aura reads, means they've simply got to try instead of waiting for their teammate to be killed. Hiding is just non-gameplay. And it's not hopeless either. Try and loop the killer for the last 1-2 gens. It might not work, but you can play as safe as you need since you no longer have to save pallets for teammates or avoid creating deadzones. You can just go all-out in chase, and the killer might not even be playing to his full potential since he thinks he's gonna win, the last gen gets done and then at least one of you is out. That would be the same result as a hatch escape, but it wasn't just a free jump in.
You are creating a lot of what if situations. Like all the pallets are somehow up? Negative. Again it just seems like a killer complaining that hatch exists and it prevents them from getting 4 k's and not a real suggestion. If the match is lost the only reason to sit on a gen is to get caught so you can get out of the match sooner. Which will be the mentality of the survivors when they feel the match isnt worth continuing so you will be making the survivor gameplay worse. But clearly you don't care about that because you only want the killer side of the gameplay to be enjoyable. You ignored my comments of how it will ruin the mentality of the survivor side which already people are giving up on hook states, this would only compound the issue. And again if you want to say it isnt gameplay neither is camping or tunneling which you conveniently left out of your response. Being able to find someone is about the same gameplay level as counting to 10 then swinging at the tunneled target.
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I have had numerous killers enter a lobby talking trash so this isn't a one sided ordeal.
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They had a solution to this ages ago, but removed it because it removed agency from the killer. When Hatches spawned based of players remaining count and gen count. It encouraged players to continue to do them. As there was a possibility of escape. But now if you have multiple gens and its down to 2. There is no reason to touch them. Behavior has in their constant need to make sure killers have agency. Have severely hampered survivor agency. This can be viewed in alot of killers losing the risk in their power kits. EX, Huntress getting a ton of hatchets, Billy being having almost no down time on chainsaw with no overhead and way faster handling, Bubba had his stun from hitting a wall reduced and collision reduced, Doctor is getting cds on all his abilitys especially if they miss, the list goes on and on. Then add in the reworks for maps are getting crazy, Haddenfield is absolute garbage, basically every vault is unsafe because there is an opening somewhere right near it. And they keep shrinking the maps to be smaller and smaller, Again haddenfield is small enough you can stand in the middle and see both walls from opposite sides, making things like watching both doors form a single spot, (Which again is a 0 survivor agency situation) But people just shug and are like oh well its bad rng. Which is incorrect. Its bad design that, that can happen. They have stated both side should feel like they have agency but survivors can easily be placed in multiple situations of no agency.
If they simply add something to force survivors to be revealed then again you are stripping survivors of their only option at that point of the game, the hatch. If you remove the hatch. Then you will see survivors give up even more then they do now because once a game looks like it isnt survivable. People arn't going to stick around which in turn makes it worse for any remaining survivor. They could look at having something like sole survivor add 25% gen repair per player killed. This would allow survivors to gain benifits to try to do stuff even with 2 because by then the gen will only take 45. Instead of 90 seconds as the issue is even if you had 6 gens left a killer can check them all well before you can finish one by yourself. But even that isnt great because it requires a perk slot instead of an in game system that could give survivors a chance of escape. If you want survivors on the gens you need some sort of system that either speeds up their ability to complete them, or something that will distract the killer so that they can finish the full 90 seconds. But without anything like that in place. There just simply isnt a reason to get on a gen, when you are behind and its down to 2.
And if you unfortunately don't like that. Well Killers tunnel and camp and claim its perfectly fine strats, so I would argue the same about hide and waiting out hatch. Both strats deny players the ability to play the game to try to gain an edge at winning it. -
@Leonardo1ita said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771554#Comment_3771554
This can also be bad: if survivors do mistakes, and deserve to get punished....now they just have more time to recover for free and do gens!
I would say this could be the case. But the same should happen with killers making mistakes, and given how much they are removing the risk out of killers kits. Id say this is very fair. A lot of the killers are losing most of the risk out of their kit, Billy's chainsaw has almost no cd and no overheat, huntress got 7 baseline hatchets, bubba has significantly lower stun on hitting something, Doctor will now have reduced shock on misses. All of this remove the punishment on killers for making errors.
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What are you even talking about. You get No where to hide for free. You get Call of the Brine for free, You dont have to carry you literally instant hook. And as the plethora of gens start to dwindle usually in a stuation that is basically a three gen because you cant get 8 suvivors to coordinate what would prevent it. It becomes crazy easy for killers to patrol them to the point where its impossible to finish them.
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Lol 2v6 would be horrible. You would have to GUT killers abilities and perks to make this even slightly balanced because if it isnt and killers easily kill every time. You wont have any survivor queing up at all.
The best way to increase survivor interest to release a TON of different classes for them to experiment with. Right now you get 4 and that its. This would be way more interesting if there was a ton of differeant builds that you could run as a survivor. -
The survivors already have to be burdened with a bot when someone leaves. If you replace multiple people with bots that can be manipulated by the killers. You will only see less survivors and more bots as time goes on till all you are doing is playing against bots.
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I don't want to get stuck with bots as a survivor. They are useless when in a terror radius which is very frequent in this mode. Id rather have a player regardless of skill because they have the ability to do what they want. Not follow a generic code of how they should act if in a terror radius or injured etc.
If they add bots then make the killers only opt into wanting bots and thus only go against bots. If the fun of it is suppose to be playing with your friend then they still are getting that aspect of it. But dont force survivors to have to play with bots.
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@MrT1412 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3743123#Comment_3743123
Why should they include games where people disconnect?
To answer why it should count:
Because those are still matches. Those are games people que into. Even if someone leaves that means they felt the match was over and cost it more for their teammates. Its a team game. So if someone of your team decides to quit and its a detriment. Then it should count towards it.My opinion on the whole lack of skill / constant killer buffs:
Dont forget that their balance changes have recently been on a string of removing tons of risk elements from killer powers so now there is hardly any risk but tons of rewards. Things that would give survivors time to get to a new pallet or get somewhere safe. Billy, Huntress, Bubba, etc have all recieved buffs to their powers to the point of even missing with a chainsaw you can be reving again almost instantly. And then they are shrinking maps making it easier for the slower killers to traverse. But also means the faster ones can fly across them. There are TONS of ways for killers to now be undetectable (My guess is this is how they want to bring the scare back.) Even look at the recent upcoming changes are heavily sided towards killer. By boosting aura readings for longer and undetectable by longer or cutting down the cooldown of it. -
There are like 130+ survivor perks and 16 picked every match. That means 1 in roughly every 9 matches you should see a duplicate. Yet i see 2-3 duplicates every match. It seems like program decides like X amount of survivors and only picks from them. Because it should be the rarity that you see duplicates not the majority
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@MoNosEmpire said:
You have frustrations with other survivors not enjoying the game? Let me easily explain why, killers will hate this post because they know most of it is true but I'll be straight to the point with it.
Survivors have had the following butchered:
- Gens take longer to do
- Healing is currently ridiculously too slow so if a killer is fairly close it is virtually impossible to finish one heal if they have even 1 slowdown perk due to how fast killers currently move.
- Maps are ridiculously small or terribly redesigned
- Loops are 50/50 but with killer speed they start becoming useless fast
- survivor perks that would give you some sort of protection like dead hard is now butchered
- Boil over is useless and should be deleted from the game already
- Most PC killers still don't even feel the wiggle when carrying someone
- If you don't have at least one healing perk in moderate+ MMR games you can forget healing most of the time
- Survivors quit when 3 people are injured at the start before a gen is done because of the above healing issue, knowing it's useless to continue.
- Still nothing can be done about stopping a killer hard tunnelling without throwing the game unless your team is good
- Pallets are still 50/50 when they should 60/40 to survivor due to all the killer buffs and outdated pallet drop mechanics (Getting hit when you're in the pallet drop animation and the killer hasn't even finished the animation on their side)
- If a survivor does not bring a toolbox, unless the killer is bad you can forget finishing all the gens in time
- Ridiculously large hitboxes for killers still exist (huntress hatchets hitting you around corners for example)
- Nurse still exists in the game and impossible to beat unless she's awful at the game (killer has a headset which you can't reduce them hearing you at close range like iron will used to
- Unlimited map distance for range killers with miniscule objects in the way to stop them
- Still getting stuck on absolutely everything for no reason (Garbage map optimisation)
- PC players being able to play with filters (Clearly borderline cheating because it gives a lighting/tint advantage but if dev's don't want to address and accept that then so be it)
- Survivor perks are starting to become borderline useless and will continue to be when they continue to get massacred
- Killer movement speed is starting to get out of control when using survivor perks like lithe and they are still directly behind you within 3s (I honestly think this is a bug somewhere because killers should lose bloodlust but they don't, I also had a killer traverse 8 different rooms with me on his shoulders with 0 movement perks and without iron grasp (so clearly something is wrong)
- PTB is on PC so only the PC audience is being taken into consideration when getting feedback (one sided feedback, you do the math)
- Foliage such as bushes have also been nerfed on some maps so it's just chases unless again, the killer is bad as they were in 1 of my games today
- Turning animation for survivors needs to be adjusted and sped up slightly.
- Targeted before the game has even started for being TTV or a high prestige when you're just trying to chill
- Being forced to save teammates but they don't do the same back
- Being left on the hook
Of course you'll have the white knights who main killer saying "git good" or "skill issue" after this post because they win 3 games out of 10+ in the games that they play which suddenly makes them a legendary killer who magically knows all about the game and have secretly been watching you play DBD in your bedroom and magically knows your skill level, then get upset about a survivor tapping a button on the controller at the exit gate like it affects them in real life.
I used to get annoyed at people DC'ing but now? How can you blame them? They're not enjoying the match or the game anymore and you're at the sole mercy of the killer, these matches do tend to be funny at parts if you do decide to stay though, and there are nice killers.. I had one where 2 people DC'd and me and a random were still in the game, I let the Wesker practise chasing me probably for around 7 minutes or so while the random did other stuff and it was still fun. The point with this last para? People do have the right to choose and DBD is still a casual game, adding a harsher penalty than one already in place will hurt the player base.
I could go on forever with this post and this list but you get the gist.
You forgot they gutted survivor stealth. Remember the old Good Iron Will. Which could encourage you to do things even when injured because you could potentially sneak away. Nope killers didn't like having to actually look for players. As well as things like No where to hide and other perks that remove any chance of stealth play from, you knowm a alleged horror game.
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@sinkra said:
More survivor nerfs on the way. First Adrenaline then probably Windows next. Devs also said in a recent Q&A they consider Buckle Up and FTP "problematic". It seems like they want to boost the kill rate to 70%.
70 is being generous. A few killers were already at that. They want it to be more like 70 is the worst performing killer. while the higher ones are in the 80's
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@Neaxolotl said:
We really should explain better that wiggling is never meant to do anything beyond restricting where killers can hook in common circumstance, little too many of survivors are mistaking it's purpose
It still doesnt even do that very well. I cant count how many times i watch killers pass 3-4 hooks to get them to hook they want. Even with hits and Sabos wiggling is a pointless feature that doesn't even do its alleged job of not letting kills walk the map with a survivor.
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Tunneling does not teach anything its a strategy used to remove someone from play quickly. Its a negative experience as it makes that player wait in que to get removed or denied the chance of playing.
Its a childish viewpoint. If I want to use your logic. Then Old Keys were good for the game because it taught killers how to push survivors off of gens. And Iron Will was good for killers because it taught them now to observe their surroundings better.
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@Predated said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699344#Comment_3699344
Yes, and no. As long as survivors are progressing the game, they cannot be banned. And on the other end, if their only way for survival is to wait untill the other is caught, then its a game mechanic issue.
Dont blame survivors for wanting to escape. Back in the day, a 2v1 could be solved by survivors finding 1 key. Either both of them met up, or 1 got out.
In a 2v1, either survivors will need a different objective to activate the gates, or survivors need a catch up mechanic the moment there are more gens than survivors. Thats the only way you can combat hiding being a legit strat.
Its basically how mass slugging is still a massive problem, but in theory, you have a 4 minute timer, so its "fine" (even though current rulings do consider excessive slugging as a reason to temp ban, since you could in theory slug all 4 survivors at the start of the game and they cant do anything for the rest of the game, essentially keeping them hostage for that duration as you have plenty of options to hook).I think slugging and hiding are both solvable with 1 update, by giving survivors basically a way to pick themselves up if they have been able to fully recover themselves (which is 36 seconds), then give them 100% crawling speedboost (again, 40 seconds of being forced to watch a bar fill is quite boring) and whenever they are near anything a survivor can interact with, they can pick themselves up. That would solve excessive slugging quite a bit. Then if there are 2 survivors left, simply give them an endgame switch inside the basement. That would give at least 1 survivor away, and survivors have reason to not hide as much since they have to reach the basement to exit.
Honestly the honest decent suggestions. Killers refuse to even acknowledge that slugging occurs for the 4k. Its taking the game hostage from those who are on death hook forcing them to wait out 4 mins of time. Also tends to result in killers letting them wiggle off in hopes of ratting out their other survivor. Lots of negative impacts from it. Yet they want to claim that its fair and fun.
If they want to address survivors hiding till the other gets found then Slugging needs to also get removed.
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Remarkable that in a HORROR game the idea of stealth is considered bannable. Especially when they continue to create the situation for it. They GUTTED keys which would encourage survivors to do gens in the possibility of getting the hatch to spawn sooner. They GUTTED iron will which encourage survivors to do generators when injured because they could hide the grunts of pains. But killers complained these were not fair.
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@MalekithHatesSnow said:
This is becoming ridiculous now every other match is a survivor either DCing AFKing or self sacrificing I am going out of my way to 3 hook no 3 gen no camp no tunneling and no slug I literally ignore the injured person running out in the open to go for the person running to a strong tile (you should never do this) I'm even playing with a 4 perk oblivious meme build and still survivors are giving up. Why? Because i'm playing Knight?
Some Survivors need to understand this isn't a PVE game, this isn't a fighting game against the AI where YOU get to pick what opponents you want to fight you can't just give up because the killer is playing someone you don't like to play against and me playing Knight is redundant anyways because some survivors will just use your killer as a smokescreen as to why they actually DC'd or self sacrificed (they got found first or they just aren't good enough to loop) you can't play any killers without at least one survivor finding it unfun and just ruining the match
I get that Solo Queue can be painful and I'm trying to give you a fair and fun experience but I can't take people who complain about Soloq being awful then self sacrifice screwing over 3 of their teammates because "Ugh it's MY 4th Ghostface of the day everything revolves around me I don't wanna play" seriously.
To all those survivors who get left behind by their teammates I will always give you hatch/exit gate you deserve it for playing with such awful teammates.
TLDR: If at any point of the game you get to the point where you're going "ugh X killer? I'm not playing this" then just close the game and go play something else.
Yet Killers can see who the survivors are. Can check to see their time / experience in the game should they decide they want to tunnel. Can See what items they brought and if they don't want to deal with it change things accordingly, or decide hmmm i dont want to play with that group. As you quoted "Its not a PVE Game, players shouldnt get to hand pick what they want...." How odd that Killers get to.
...Hmm I wonder why players continue to dc. Maybe its because the constant negative experiences killers consistently provide seem to be the reasoning behind it. Maybe to demonstrate to the developers that they need to start looking at underlying problems within the game rather then band aid fixes or half assed resolutions.
Hell behavior does not even warn players that they should set profiles to private to prevent killers from seeing how much experience they have in the game. So unless they happen to go to the forums or watch videos advising them to do it, they dont and killers get more information then anything survivors get.
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Lol I dont see how this is an issue. For a small probability. Killers can leave people slugged while they wait out the timer. Or while they look for the last person. That isn't fair or fun to experience. Nor is the camping and tunneling that is running rampant. I can comfortably say that in most of my matches both the slugging and leaving them down to sweat for the 4k and hard tunnel and camping occurred with high frequency.
There are alot of un fun and unfair elements to this game. So if we want to list everything that people dislike or don't find fun or interesting or well designed we should get all of it changed. Not just one side. Because i have quite the long list of outdated things that should be removed but 100% benefit the killer.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3658723#Comment_3658723
Standing in front of the hook for 2 minutes preventing any sort of interaction was the problem. The anti-facecamp system does the job at removing the uninteractive playstyle.
Holding a 3 gen infinitely for 1 hour was never meant to be something people should be going out of their way to achieve. The 3 gen system makes it much harder for force 1 hour games on to other players.
Tunneling and Camping themselves are fine and these systems were never going to remove it, because you don't like your human opponent having the free will to decide how they want to play. I'm sure you wouldn't like a system that forces survivors to have to get every gen to the same % threshold before they can progress gens to the next % threshold.
No I think that the game developers should respect their players time in the game. And queing into a match where the killer can focus one person down and prevent them from playing by standing just out of range, and only going after them through tunneling. And to do that and be REWARDED is horrendous design.
Along with the fact that you seemed to miss in the pervious post. Killers get what they want. They didn't want to have to actually look for survivors because of iron will despite that being a valid strat. So now its useless. Killers didn't think it was fair if they did poorly that everyone could escape from the hatch. So they removed it and made keys worthless. The issue is that these are half measures that the yare implementing for the survivors, while they do full removal for the killers requests.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3656903#Comment_3656903
These systems fixed problems that people were complaining about. Killers can't really force hour long matches since after 8 regression events that gen can't be defended as easily. Not to mention how the system absolutely destroyed perks like Eruption.
Antifacmp prevents you from sitting on hook for 2 minutes as you stare at the killer's face the entire time.
BT off hook prevents you from just going down and being rehooked immediately.
You can say they didn't solve anything, because they don't stop legit tactics. But you would much rather these systems be in place than the alternative.
They hardly did. The 3 gen tech gave killers additional regression for literally nothing. They were so scared to put anything in place without giving the killer something as compensation .
The facecamp tech is also useless because killers not just stand outside of range of it staring at the player. And if someone goes in to try to save and run out. It fills soo slow that its basically a face camp.
The BT lets killers count out the debuff and just hit them anyways so it accomplishes nothing.
These tools arn't fixing anything, the camping is still happening, the knocking down the unhooked person is still happen. Stop pretending that those issue suddenly were resolved just because they were given a tiny buffer.
Its remarkable that they refuse to hard remove something because it isnt fun for survivors because its at the cost of the killer. Yet things that were fun or interesting for the survivors they completely remove. Killer plays bad and all survivors get out hatch, keys are now worthless. Being silent after getting hit, removed because killers didnt like looking. Those were things killers complained about and they get significant changes that remove those from play. While we get half assed attempts at resolutions because they dont want to upset the killer side.
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No the issue is the fact that a small mistake from survivors has MUCH larger consequences then the killer, and while that should be the case, they continue to make the mistakes killers do have less and less punishment.
They are trying to drastically increase the floor which in turn makes the poorer performer struggle more making the experience much worse for them.
I dont see what is fun about oh look billy missed his chainsaw oh its already fully revved again with little ground gained from his mistake. Survivors have to put in much more effort to get less and less rewards, therefor its far less satisfying them. That is all before you factor in any degenerate strats or play styles that just make it far worse of an experience.
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@xltechno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3656898#Comment_3656898
no. Just give feedback on the forum after finishing the match. There's no need to commit suicide.
They hardly listen obviously. Actions speak far louder
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@Tsulan said:
Hook grabbing was removed, we got the anti face camp mechanic, 3 genning was removed, HUD, inbuild BT, etc.
And yet, i see a lot of these threads. Complaining about the devs not caring for survivors, since the newest PTB doesn´t have anything for survivors...
Anti face camping is a worthless system as it hardly resolved anything. The 3 genning tech is rarely used yet the killers got a 2.5% increase to kicks regardless so in the end it buffed them more in every other instance that isnt 3 genning. I could list a ton of things killers have gotten over the many patches as well. The issue people have it that the yare removing risks from everything yet leaving rewards. And other issues that have been long standing just get ignored entirely or they get such below average compensation IE the anti face camp and 3 gens tech that it is a slap in the face to the players.
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3656318#Comment_3656318
Skill expressions are disappearing at a rapid rate and it's a pain to see. Just becoming more low risk whilst the rewards stay the same.
This. Their current design pattern is leaning heavy into, we dont want killers to feel punished for making mistakes, which is just astonishing. Huntress gets more hatchets, faster wind up, and movement. Billy is getting even more curving potential and after his rework he can rev his chainsaw so fast that it can be difficult getting anywhere with him already raring it up. And since he gets buffed over using it it compounds the issue further. Like they don't understand what risk / reward means if they keep lowering the risk but leaving the reward the same.
They talk about agency and how the players need it but they only give the killers the agency meanwhile survivors have situations where they have 0 agency and the devs do nothing about it. Gates spawning within line of sight of each other or close enough that they killer barley has to move to see them. This gives the survivor almost no agency in the end game.
That can also be tagged along with the fact that survivors lose perks or benefits in the end game because again killer agency is important. Meanwhile No way out somehow still gets to remain active in the end game collapse which it shouldn't since it again removes the survivor agency entirely.
If survivors are killing themselves on hook it might be because they continue to experience awful rounds against the killer. If every skull merchant is gonna proxy camp the hook survivors are not going to just sit there and waste their time. Its the whole point of why tunnel and camping are awful elements to this game. It removes and respect for the players time and commitment to the game for something that could be addressed but they refuse to do so. So if a killer is constantly getting survivors who do that then there is still something wrong with that killer that players just dont want to play against and the devs should look at what is wrong with them and adjust. Just like if a killer is never selected that means there is something wrong with the killer that isnt fun and the devs should adjust.
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What do you mean. They keep making the maps smaller and smaller but have not reverted the movement speed buffs to help compensate the killers when the maps were much larger so now they just fly across the tiny spaces. Further more they only care about killer agency despite saying they want all players to feel like they have a chance to kill or survive at any moment. Case and point Doors that are within line of sight from each other. I do not believe it would take years for them to code in an exception to map generation to make them spawn away from each other on opposing sides. Yet it happens with high frequency and removes all agency from the survivor and were just suppose to go. ahhh shucks. Complete nonsense, program the game better. Also if survivors lose perks that are deemed unfair in the endgame collapse because it removes killer agency the same should be done for the killer. No way out should 100% be disabled when end game collapse occurs.
The most recent changes to Billy and upcoming changes to Huntress also are emphasizing a worrisome trend that they don't want killers to be punished for making mistakes. Instead no lets let them have a million hatchets and move at high speeds with them. Or let them almost instantly start revving their chainsaw if they miss. And oh they were brought to a bad loop don't worry were making it so you cant just bypass it entirely with absurd movement. Its laughable at their design ideology.
Lets also look at their solutions to problems within the game anti camping tech is basically worthless, the anti 3 gen system was also a nerf to gens because regardless if the game goes long or not. every kick has 2.5% more regress on it so despite them saying it only impacts 3 gen situation it doesn't its a reward to killers the entire time if they kick. And while I get the design idea of you should buff things up rather then nerf. You have to at some point nerf things down to remove incentive. Because no matter how many times you buff things to promote roaming and kicking and regression. Until you actively nerf the tunneling scene. It wont go away you only give them even more tools to use after they tunnel someone out.