Beolthar
Beolthar
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- Beolthar
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@roundpitt said:
Why would you not list nurse or blight? Are you afraid those would get 90% of the votes?
I have already addressed my reasonings when making this poll. Please look in the comments to find it (it's on the first page). TLDR; Nurse's power works, which is more that can be said of some of the killers on the list. She may need a change, but I don't think she needs one as bad as a lot of other killers do.
As for her or blight getting 90% of the votes, from what I've seen of this community, most who would choose them would do so simply because they don't like them, not because they actually need a rework more than the other killers. But I put "Other" as an option, which includes Blight and Nurse. And yet, they don't have 90% of the votes anyway (at least, so far). So far, no one has said blight except for you and only 3 or 4 have commented that they voted for nurse (including your vote). Meyers, Pyramid Head, Twins, Hag, and Knight have also been voted for with the "Other" option.
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Nurse is the only killer that's too strong. Even with that, she's not guaranteed a 4k (at least at top level play where all the players are closer in skill than in public matches). IMO, she doesn't need a rework as much as the ones listed.
Trapper's power doesn't really work even against decent SoloQ players. Freddy's power isn't very interactive or effective. Pig's power is extremely limited in use (and why do the Devs seem to hate her so much?). Nemesis's zombies don't work half the time, they just start licking rocks and trees, or doing a waddle-dance whenever a survivor passes by. Sadako has a very weak and noninteractive power. Clown is OK and I love that he's basically a murder-hobo, but his power is weak unless you use certain add-ons. Hillbilly is way too difficult to learn for the effectiveness of his power. Wraith and Doctor are OK, but they're a bit weak overall.
I guess the main reason I didn't put Nurse is because I think she's OK for the current state of the game. That's all of my reasoning at the time I made the poll. But that's why I put Other as an option, to get people's opinions, including Nurse.
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It may be a bit over tuned for solo, but it's really underpowered against SWFs since they can just stop working on the gens right before a teammate goes down. I think the incapacitated effect is fine. It takes longer for a gen to regress than it does for a gen to progress while being worked on, especially with gen speed up perks that have become the new staple since the meta changes, and the incapacitated effect just guarantees that the gen will actually start regressing beyond the initial value.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3261570#Comment_3261570
1, you are wrong. Today I played 2x nurse, Oni, cannibal, 2x spirit and 3 survivor games. It used to work the opposite way, but killer is now much more relaxing then survivor. Btw I lost only 1x nurse and 1x oni + 1x spirit was a draw (2 out) - where all 3 survivor games (btw it was as 3-4 man SWF this time) were losses (because I got in order lery's, midwitch and shelter woods after which I said enough). This is just to show I do play killers too. They are VERY EASY in comparison (and I don't even camp or tunnel).
2, killer is already unfairly strong against average survivor - this means they are VERY unfair against soloQ. What you say is "I want to have at least 3k almost every game and I don't care about the other side. They are not people to me and they can loose nonstop, because I only have fun when I win way more then I loose.". I am reasonably certain SWF don't even have more wins then loses - sure I don't have full stats for this, but from bits of information we have I would guess 4-man SWF winrate is somewhere around 50%. If this is unacceptable for you, then you are very entitled killer main.
Now you are completely ignoring what I've said in order to paint me as some spoiled brat. I've never said I want to have at least 3k almost every game. I never said I don't care about the other side. I never said they are not people to me. You are completely ignoring my real arguments and what I am wanting. At this point, I am considering your comments to be some kind of bait and will no longer respond to them after this post.
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I get that she's OP, at least against SoloQ, but why would you choose her to be reworked over all of the other killers, especially when a lot of other killers can't even compete? (Not trying to start an argument, just curious as to your reasoning 🙂)
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@JawsIsTheNextKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/354165/bhvr-when-can-i-stop-playing-against-swfs
You say you are an average killer, then I would expect you to lose when playing against a 3 or 4 person SWF.
Assuming you are matched with solo survivors that are the same MMR as you, you should probably average 2 kills per game. The problem is that if they are SWF then they will be at your level and then given the extra advantage of comms as matchmaking is based on the average MMR.
Even if you improve somewhat, so will the level of your opponents so you will be no better off.
I think the best solution is to for the devs to tweak matchmaking based on the number of members of the team. Four 1600 MMR survivors in a SWF probably shouldn't be matched against a 1600 MMR killer..
I would be fine with that, except that the Devs have shown a lack of good design/execution when it comes to MMR matching, from what I've seen the community say and from my own experience. It kinda works the way it is now, with them turning off MMR to test things out proving that it has an effect, but it definitely still needs to be improved IMO. I think it would just be easier for the Devs to make an option for the killers, rather than continue to try and tweak the MMR system. That, and the MMR system can only do so much anyway due to the number of players available.
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@Gandor said:
1, this game is inherently unfair. Killers got buffed so, that low mmr soloQ survivor can loose 5x in a row and there is nothing interesting or special about it.
2, maps play a huge role - if you get nurse on the game, you will have very easy time. If you get Oni, good luck. If you get shelter woods with most of killers, enjoy almost free 4k. Get garden and you have tough time
3, nurse and blight are so inherently unfair, that even well coordinated SWF that train together have very hard time playing against them
4, there are things like tombstone piece in a game - killer stalks someone, then leaves them and find you. Once you get to M1 distance to him, you are suddenly morried even if it's 1st hit you got and you are in a first minute of game. And there are many more things like this
5, devs themselves said SWF with comms are ok. They even made balance changes around this. As a result average killer wins 59% of (mini) matches -he kills each survivor with 59% chance. This goes up to 61% for best 5% players. You already have advantage against SWF. Learn to play against it
This sounds like you really just don't like killer players to be honest. You went off topic for most of this post. I have not changed my mind from your statements. I intend to improve and I still want an option to not play against SWF. I disagree with the Devs on SWF having comms being balanced. It would be unrealistic for the Devs to take SWF out of the game altogether and many survivor players only like to play with their friends, which is understandable. An option to opt out of playing against SWFs would be fair since it would be up to the killer. If SWF isn't unfairly strong, as you say, you have nothing to worry about because most killers won't use the option. If I improve enough, I may not use the option or stop using the option if it was available. But right now, I want the option and I would use it.
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The Thing (1982)
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I would choose Trapper because his power is more up to the survivors whether or not it works. I would rework his power so that he could throw his traps and they get set where they land, with base kit deep wound or 5 sec. hindered effects on survivors who escape a trap. I would also add a few more total traps to the map. I would also make an add-on that would allow traps to be set on walls or ceilings for some time (like maybe 60 seconds) and they would activate if a survivor passed by them. Another add-on could be that he could throw his trap directly at a survivor and it would trap them if it hits, while in exchange he could only carry one trap at a time.
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It's a good suggestion, but then killer has to keep dodging if they keep getting put against SWFs and don't want to play against them. A setting that prevents getting put in the same lobby as a SWF would be far more convenient.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3259853#Comment_3259853
Because I am part of a smaller community where random-ish people come and go. I see people who have less then 100hrs in game and hear what they communicate. And on the other spectrum is a guy with almost 9000 hours.
What you see are big name streamers. Those guys need to be very good to be big names. Meaning they can utilize comms very well. You don't play against those people. As I already said this is not the case for most. Standard people are able to call out "I am near shack/main". Maybe some other very clear landmark sometimes. That's it.
Sure comms can be huge help against some perk (like knock out), but against standard casual players most of the perks don't get communicated and make no difference.
As for my example - sure I am not saying everyone plays like that. It's just a show of which parts can be infered in game even without comms. What I am trying to say that those 4 guys totally look like a SWF. Yet they are not communicating. So how can you be sure you get swf every other game? Like there are some tells (like having selfish perks like left behind), but even those can mislead you. And some tells are just plain wrong given you reach certain MMR range (like altruism is not swf thing - I had planty solo games where I died for someone or somebody died for me even if I/they could just leave, also I play sabo in my solos so getting hook sabotaged also does not mean SWF).
How can I be sure I am getting SWF every other game? I've already addressed a comment demanding proof. I can't provide proof. But if the change I suggested gets implemented, then I will know 100% and you could know too. That would also help me to know where I could improve in the game, and once I improve to a certain point, then I would feel more comfortable playing against SWF. Otherwise, I can't necessarily tell which parts of the game I could improve on, and which parts are just SWFs having an unfair advantage. I have a feeling I'm not going to convince you to support the implementation of an option for killers to choose whether or not to get matched up with SWFs. I also don't think you're going to convince me that I should just "get gud" at the game. I already know I can improve plenty. I already implied that in the original post when I said I am an average killer. I am fine with admitting that I can be outplayed and that I have plenty still to learn. But I still believe comms give survivors unfair advantages, even in cases where they don't talk about everything they could to maximize that advantage. And I still want an option to opt out of playing against survivors using said advantage.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3260694#Comment_3260694
Show which killer we run against and we can add it. Nobody wants to go against 4-man swf same as against blight&nurse (and many are fed up with wesker).
If SWF can't get speedy lobby and get sweat fest if they do, let's see the same treatment on killer's side
I'd be fine with them showing which killer the survivors would go against in lobby, but the game will need some serious reworks for that to be fair too. Otherwise, it'll be 4 flashlights every time someone wants to play Wraith or Hag. Besides, my original point is that I believe comms give survivors an unfair advantage. Being able to strategize exactly what to bring to counter the killer isn't making the game fair. Getting rid of an unfair advantage is because it balances the game, especially when the unfair advantage is due to a third-party tool that BHVR can't regulate.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I have lost track of how many times the killer has insulted me in SoloQ post lobby claiming they 'knew' we were a 4 man 🤣🤣🤣 just cuz you lost a match, or we somehow coordinated a solid unhook doesn't mean comms were involved.
How's this? You can have the ability to opt out of SWF games, and we get to see if the killer tunnels at 5 gens and face camps before readying for the match.
Cute, but anecdotal. I have lost track of the number of times survivors have insulted me regardless of how I play. Apparently, I can face camp from the opposite corner of the map as Trapper. I'm fine with losing some matches. As I said in the original post, I am an average killer. I expect to lose some matches. What I am not fine with is my opponents having an unfair advantage, which comms are in my opinion. I would still expect to lose some SoloQ matches even if they did implement the change I suggest. But at least then I could know 100% for sure that it was a matter of skill and possibly favorable map RNG that determined the outcome, and not a third-party tool that gives survivors an edge.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3259744#Comment_3259744
1, taking Hens as an example is about as precise as taking supaalf and marking his nurse as general killer's strength. Meaning why are killers every crying when they can win 500 times in a row and get 4K every time they really want?
2, Most of survivors are happy to say where they are - to say where killer is... Quite a bit more rare. To say where the resources are depleted. Not normal to say the least.
3, check this stream: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1624258581?t=04h09m57s
this are 4x prestige 100 players (rather 5 if we count killer). Meaning very good players. They probably don't know each other and they don't have comms. Look how they play together. How they can heal together. How they chase together. This is just to show that to be insanely good - you don't need to have communications
You say I shouldn't use Hens as an example because it's not precise, but you then suggest examples that also aren't very precise to support your point. I didn't say you need communications to be insanely good. I said I think communications gives the survivors an unfair advantage because it makes it much easier and allows a lot of plays that can't be made without communications. If those survivors did have communications, they would have done even better. Not sure how you know what is and isn't normally said on comms, but most of the streams and recordings I've seen of SWF, they're calling out everything.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
If you lose against SWFs you will most likely lose against the same players when they are Solo. Communication is not the main strength of SWF.
Dont blame your losses on SWFs and look where you can improve instead.
I do look for where I can improve myself, but SWF having good communication is the main strength of SWF. It's what everyone brings up when they talk about the difference between playing soloq and playing SWF, including survivors. Communications gives the SWF knowledge of where the killer is, what pallets have been used leading to stronger looping overall, what perks/add-ons the killer has before personally having to interact with the killer, where to go for another survivor to heal, and body blocks that are way too coordinated for soloq to pull off without a lot of luck. An excellent example of the strength of communication is Hens' survivor team. They even use a map for the most precise communication possible because they know it gives them an edge. Survivors can be really good without communication, but nowhere near as good as they can be with communication. Communication is the main strength of SWF.
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@NoOneKnowsNova said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3259608#Comment_3259608
It doesn't take much for a group of 4 decent (nor insanely skilled) survivors to work together and play well. If you're blaming every second match and good team on a swf then that genuinely sounds like a mentality problem.
Maybe. But I still don't like playing against SWFs and until they give me an option to not get matched against them then I guess we'll never 100% know. Also, there may be more SWFs in my region then there are in yours. So it may be rare for you, but common for me.
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@NoOneKnowsNova said:
Where's your proof that "every other match is against swf" cause that seems like a very bold claim.
Proof? How can I provide proof of that? You want me to take a screenshot of every match I play and post it? The teams I've been playing against have been way too consistently organized with great timing and map knowledge throughout every other game I've played recently. It would be less reasonable to assume I've just been going against insanely skilled or lucky soloq survivors every other game. I've heard SWFs are rare, but I don't think that's true. If it is true, then what I'm asking for won't really affect cue times at all for most players. And since so many say SWFs aren't OP, then most killers won't use the option either, so SWF cue times won't increase much either.
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@DEMONANCE said:
that will never happen, very unfair to people who just wanna play and have fun with their friends in a party game.
their queues will be hours and the only killers who would be willing to play against a swf are the sweaty killers so their matches would be miserable.
most swfs you probably can beat if you get better.
How is it unfair to people who just wanna play and have fun with their friends? I'm not banning them from playing, I just don't want to play against them because it seems unfair to me. And SWFs just "play and have fun with their friends" has almost always been by making the killer as miserable and frustrated as possible. I'm not saying people should be punished for playing with their friends, I'm saying that I shouldn't be punished for other people playing with their friends. If most SWFs can be beat simply by getting better, then cue times won't get much longer because most killers won't use the option. Unless SWF has an unfair advantage, in which case my original point stands.
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@Grigerbest said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3258380#Comment_3258380
Dude, exactly! xD
"The strongest" - is a definition of "balancing issue". You can't say these killers are balanced and the strongest at the same time, it makes no sense.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/354065/the-most-balanced-killer
To OP - To me the most balanced killers are the killers between A and C tier.
Any B-tier killer is the most balanced killer in the game.
Killers can be the strongest and the most balanced at the same time, because most killers are bad. At least against SWF, which seems to be what BHVR wants to balance the game around.
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@Steakdabait said:
I think they should but BHVR very clearly wants the game to mostly retain the horror survival aspect of the game and they want you to have some feeling of isolation. Which adding a load of UI elements that tell you what your teammates are doing and where they are would kill that a lot.
I don't think BHVR cares about keeping a feeling of isolation. They put SWF in the game. That destroys all sense of isolation.
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@dugman said:
I'd love to see The Thing as a killer if they can figure out a good way to do it. And yeah, the suggestion has come up on the boards before, it's a popular IP. 🙂
Some random thoughts on The Thing
- The main ability would obviously be mimicking survivors to blend in before attacking. One thing that comes up sometimes in talking about a killer looking like a survivor is some people think that it would be very weak against a swf since they would immediately know when someone is a killer. But keep in mind that when a killer looks like a survivor it also implies that they're Undetectable with no red stain and no terror radius, which by itself is a solid ability! So one way to look at The Thing would be that mechanically it would probably be sort of similar to Ghost Face - a killer who can easily be Undetectable for extend periods of time but who loses Undetectability once they attack (in the The Thing's case, attacking would probably turn them into an alien monster for example.) What would make The Thing different from Ghost Face in terms of how they play would presumably be the details of exactly how they become Undetectable and what their secondary ability is. For Ghost Face, that's the ability to mark targets with the Exposed condition. So The Thing would need something other than that, I'm not sure specifically what though.
- Since a lot of The Thing's modus operandi is sabotaging equipment when nobody is around, one possible secondary ability for The Thing could be that while they're mimicking a survivor they get bonuses to out of chase actions. So when they damage the generator in survivor form, for instance, they have an inherent loss of progression on it kind of like a Pop Goes the Weasel effect in addition to simply putting the gen into regression. They could even have a limited use ability to pull down a pallet or two a match - imagine being a killer that could, if a survivor isn't watching, a couple of times a match preemptively drop and destroy a God Pallet!
- The map would definitely be the Antartic Research Facility. For sure! 😄
- Survivors could be MacReady (Kurt Russell's character in the movie) and Dr. Blair (Wilfred Brimley's character). I could see perks for MacReady themed around Macgeyvering things up, maybe, and the Doc's perks around healing or research or info gathering on the killer.
Those are some really cool ideas! I wasn't sure if it had been on the board before. I'm still new to the game since I started playing it about 3 weeks ago or so.
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@tippy2k2 said:
The problem with a doppleganger killer is the main problem in general with this game; against solos or even 2 person squads it's fine but once you get 3 or 4 person squads, gonna be real easy for everyone to go "Hey, you see that Dwight over there with the giant tentacle sticking out of his arse? That's the killer, not me so don't let him Thing you to death".
Sure, but a general problem with the game is applicable to all killers. It will affect some more than others. Plus, that situation would be mostly due to teams that are using comms, which breaks/shifts the game's balance no matter what killer is being played.