Judgment thoughts - generally unfun, make hook perks work on Exile, should be blind charging M2

Disclaimer, I haven't played her but playing against her is a negative experience.

Problem

Judgment chase has LOS breaking like Nurse but with none of the downsides that make Nurse interesting. Judgment can instead apply mapwide pressure mid chase, hooks are instant, and she's almost full speed.

LOS breaking isn't even effective because of aura perks (side note, make Nurse blind when charging blink).

Judgment is peak gambleslop like pyramid head and henry, and is unfun to play against. It often feels like we're both guessing, it's a matter of time until she gets a hit, and I can't even tell if they're good (a Killer's design should allow you to demonstrate skill). If the Judgment does the beyblade (spin to win!!!) for an easier hit, that just adds to the misery.

Indoor maps feel terrible. Hawkin's especially feels like I should just forfeit immediately.

Time will tell, but this may be a bottom 5 killer to play against for me in her current state.

Suggestions

  • Hook perks work on Exile - perk diversity
  • Blind while charging M2 - make her predict, and make keeping distance/breaking LOS more effective
  • Reduced range on power OR beam narrows at long range - make her map presence less oppressive
Tagged: Killers

Comments

  • Judgment is peak gambleslop like pyramid head and henry, and is unfun to play against. It often feels like we're both guessing

    I am a Henry main and you are just wrong, I am really good at predicting survivors and it's more skill than guessing and I have played against good survivors and bad survivors which a have a massive gap between their skill against Henry. Pyramid head has a warning as well as Henry so you can dodge after the M2 and you know when is the killer is using M2 and unable to M2.

    This is also quite similar with judgement BUT you can literally see where the killer is aiming at so you literally just watch where to dodge.

    Hook perks work on Exile - perk diversity

    She does not need any nerfs and that perks don't work with exile goes both ways, most killer meta perks are hooking perks so this would buff judgement significantly... More than survivors.

    she's almost full speed.

    She is 4.4 and it's a big difference from 4.6 and she has 0 mobility.

    Blind while charging M2 - make her predict, and make keeping distance/breaking LOS more effective

    I hope I don't have to explain why this is a horrible change... Probably worst idea ever, her chasing power is bad mid range and requires a lot of skill.

    LOS breaking isn't even effective because of aura perks

    Most aura perks only show aura of survivors far away, I'm all ears is the only perk that gives aura during the chase (I think) and undying can occasionally help, you can still dodge without breaking LOS (with skill).

    Judgment can instead apply mapwide pressure mid chase

    It's so easy to dodge the snipes if you just pay attention (which you should while playing), an easy way to always dodge is whenever you hear the map wide sounds you can just run away a bit from the gen and then you will see the bean and you can continue doing the objective. Also, trying to hit a snipe during the chase just makes the chase longer.

    Reduced range on power OR beam narrows at long range - make her map presence less oppressive

    Definitely not needed.

    Play as her and then say all of your issues (play her enough like 20 matches maybe and at least against some decent survivors).

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  • @Blaconia said:

    Disclaimer, I haven't played her but playing against her is a negative experience.

    Problem

    Judgment chase has LOS breaking like Nurse but with none of the downsides that make Nurse interesting. Judgment can instead apply mapwide pressure mid chase, hooks are instant, and she's almost full speed.

    LOS breaking isn't even effective because of aura perks (side note, make Nurse blind when charging blink).

    Judgment is peak gambleslop like pyramid head and henry, and is unfun to play against. It often feels like we're both guessing, it's a matter of time until she gets a hit, and I can't even tell if they're good (a Killer's design should allow you to demonstrate skill). If the Judgment does the beyblade (spin to win!!!) for an easier hit, that just adds to the misery.

    Indoor maps feel terrible. Hawkin's especially feels like I should just forfeit immediately.

    Time will tell, but this may be a bottom 5 killer to play against for me in her current state.

    Suggestions

    • Hook perks work on Exile - perk diversity
    • Blind while charging M2 - make her predict, and make keeping distance/breaking LOS more effective
    • Reduced range on power OR beam narrows at long range - make her map presence less oppressive

    she'd be F tier with these changes you should just use your eyes and dodge

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  • @lovlor said:

    Agreed.

    The only killer bypass hook perk is Executioner. While getting caged can 100% be avoided if wanted by just not walk on the thing. Getting exiled takes no skill for the killer and is not avoidable.

    Total nonsense for not receiving blind when charging, killer just shoot at some auras in the middle of the map because this beam is wall penetrable and has a 60 metres radius which basically covers the whole map. How about we let spirit not receive blind when phase walking?

    Bypassing hook perks benefits survivor more than killer...

    receiving blind when charging

    How is the killer supposed to hit the survivor then, this would be actually pure rng. Genuinely what's so hard to understand about the power being really hard to use and that you can literally see where the killer is aiming as survivor.

    basically covers the whole map.

    It literally doesn't, you are just saying nonsense at this point.

    How about we let spirit not receive blind when phase walking?

    So you want to make her actually S tier where survivor can't see her but the killer can see the survivor, this would be more broken than blight or nurse.

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  • @lovlor said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4116113#Comment_4116113

    You are a pure killer main I wont fall for your ragebait anymore man bypassing hook perks benefits survivor more than killer lmao

    Ok, you are a pure survivor main and what?, like you are always complaining about killers...

    Survivors have 16 perks in total and there's probably going to be only 1 or 2 hook related perks and others are meta perks as well which are not hook related, that's at least 8 perks being active.

    Killer meta perks are slowdown and most of them require hooks so the killer that bypasses hook perks has no specifically meta slowdown perks like pop goes the weasel or pain res or turn back the clock.

    I wont fall for your ragebait

    I should honestly just stop falling for your ragebait.

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  • @SpyUA said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4116128#Comment_4116128

    Ok, you are a pure survivor main and what?, like you are always complaining about killers...

    Survivors have 16 perks in total and there's probably going to be only 1 or 2 hook related perks and others are meta perks as well which are not hook related, that's at least 8 perks being active.

    Killer meta perks are slowdown and most of them require hooks so the killer that bypasses hook perks has no specifically meta slowdown perks like pop goes the weasel or pain res or turn back the clock.

    I wont fall for your ragebait

    I should honestly just stop falling for your ragebait.

    You like the killer and the power - fine. But when someone says how garbage it is to vs the killer, the answer is not to say "pay attention", "it's easy". Because even if it was easy, it is still highly lacking in interactivity, counterplay and enjoyment on the survivor side. What makes it worse is that it requires very little skill from the killer if they want to cheese everything. You might not do that, but the majority have no qualms about it.

  • I should point out that I first submitted the original post prior to the buffs making her the best killer in the game. I dislike her even more now.

    There are many close-mid range aura perks like Nurse's Calling, Darkness Revealed, Weave Attunement, Zanshin, Nemesis. If you didn't have auras while charging power, you would still know roughly where they are, but would have to think and predict their movement. If that fails, you can just guess and likely still win.

    It's bad that a killer discourages you from using half the perks. You can't "just hook" because her design actively screams at you to Exile to gain Zealous and instant/unsaveable hooks. She should still hook for scourge hooks though, because she doesn't need pain res/gift of pain/floods for free. If having access to hook perks buffs Judgment or survivors, just balance her around it (and part of that balance is removing auras while charging power).

    4.4 is "almost full speed" when compared to nurse. She technically has less mobility than trapper, but that's negated by instant hooks and map-wide beams.

    "Just dodge the beam" sounds like saying to just "dodge and kick" Victor. Sure I guess, but we both know it's not happening. Sooner or later, you'll get the hit, and that's the core issue of gambleslop.

    I also forgot to mention totem defense is ridiculous on her. I had a game where she had ruin inside a 3 gen. No points for guessing who won that game.