Salvation's Cry should be flipped
Perk is cool and all but thinking about it shouldn't it be reversed? At least from a lore perspective Aurora is supposed to be the salvation of her people so shouldn't they cry out to her when they're in trouble instead of the other way around? In game terms I'm basically asking why instead of what we have make it so you see the killer and other survivor's when they get into chase so you can go save them? This would be both more lore accurate and I would have to imagine a better perk overall since you have more agency on how to use it either "okay I can work on this gen over here safely" or "oh hey my teammate over there is in trouble I better go save them". Especially in soloQ you want to go help teammate but have zero clue where they are.
Comments
Honestly speaking Salvation's cry is hot garbage so I don't even think flipping it would change anything. There's no real point in running it currently.
Actually it gives solos periodic advanced warning about where the killer is and what's probably getting used. Tells me that atleast when ppl run it
Wow, stuff that's check notes better done by running quick gambit and just not leading the killer to the survivors. Or bond, a perk that's on a starting character. Survivors know who the killer is after first chase so you will have to explain to me how survivors who are not in chase get value from knowing where the killer is. Because they should be on generators not just messing around trying to go for sabo or flashlight saves, both of which got heavily crippled by the new killer totally negating them.
So quick gambit lets others see you coming? Cause that seems like a new one to me. Also sure bond doesn't tell the others where you and the killer are. Both those tell you and you alone no? And when sometimes you might need to go towards others, like say death hook, others can at least either get outta the way or try and help without requiring either or ducking at the first heartbeat. It doesn't mater who the killer is, what matters is the where. Is it a great perk? No, is there a point to run it? Occasionally. But keep thinking everythings "hot garbage", i can at least see usefulness.
They don't need to see you coming since that gives no value. The only thing that matters is making sure you aren't leading the killer to gens simple as that.
But you at the very least came up with theoretical reasons why someone would run it. None of them hold up to any level of scrutiny but it'll be fun to discuss them.
First off, bond lets you lead the killer away from someone who is on death hook, second instead of salvation's cry you can run shoulder the burden to prevent someone from being on death hook. Let's not forget the massive opportunity cost of running salvation's cry over other perks. Third, by the time someone is on death hook unless they are being tunneled out of the game at five gens you should already know where safe areas are. Killer's aren't going to the corner of the map with finished gens lol so you can pretty reasonably tell where the killer is and will be coming from.
Next there's the issue of you saying it doesn't matter who the killer is, because that's just wrong on so many levels. A bunch of killers have undetectable as part of their power so this perk just does not work on like a third of the killer roster or is unreliable at best. Let's not even get into the issue of undetectable perks because there's the even bigger issue of killers like ghoul, blight, and Jason who can go from one end of the map to another in a matter of seconds making any information the perk gave moot. Let's not forget it's minuscule reveal duration after all.
It's a perk that does nothing in let's be generous and say only 90% of games because the killer is straight up immune to it or can render it irrelevant due to high movement speed. It's value only comes from slow basic killers that have no undetectable, can't move fast, and can't teleport. In other words it's usable against like… Trapper, Bubba, and Plague.
Compare this to the previously mentioned bond. A perk that is always active. A perk that makes it so you won't lead the killer to generators being worked on or survivors on death hook, and gives you information that can be acted on in or out of chase. While Salvation's cry is unreliable as it requires a significant number of killers and perks to not be in play, it requires you to be the one in chase, it's information gets worse the longer chase goes on as you move through the maps leading to potential situations where because you gave people info earlier they may not realize where the chase has moved and erroneously think an area is safe, it turns off after only a few seconds so most people can't even get value out of it, and most of the time it will not give any value whatsoever to anyone as people should be focusing on getting gens done not worrying about what side of the map killer is on.
Bro these are the same people who cant get info from the little symbol by the character portraits.
Players these days have no idea whats going on have the time and just auto pilot.
Are you making my point for me right now? Because I totally forgot the basic fact that yeah new players who run into the issue of having no game sense and could possibly get the most value out of it are also the least likely people to have access to this perk or be in lobbies with people who have the new survivor.
No no I agree with you. sorry if I worded it weirdly.
Oh my bad, I thought you were the other dude.
I mean, I like to know which way NOT to go to run into the killer. I like knowing where you came from to know whats probably been used. There are defiantly more things that mater than that.
But it does not let the other guy run the sure fire direction away, you have to steer yourself and probably eat that hook quicker than if you could pass by. I have been on death hook before and tried to go away as someone leads them to me, whether intentional or not, only to pick the wrong direction to go. This helps others with the finer details. If you run shoulder you have to take that hook state instead of possibly preemptively preventing one. Im not going to know where everyones been if im solo just because someones on death hook, tunnel or no. I can roughly guess but unless i go through myself I only know where chases end, and not even what happened durring said chases. Some greed pallets, some drop at a hat.
Just for fun, what if the killer comes from the corner of the map with completed gens because the runner was making sure they're not leading them to finished gens? Will they go to mine dead strait? Will they go to another then mine from there? This is no bearing on the perk, but it does show that knowing where the killer comes from isn't cut and dry.
In the context for the perk it indeed doesn't really mater. The benefit is showing you and the killer's aura to others when a chase starts. If the killer is undetectable the others still see you. As the killer is now spoiled when met with a survivor (dont exactly know what triggers the info in the pause menu) the survivors can know who it is even if not seen. As it also procs each "chase" which can be broken up repeatedly against most it gives irregular, but not that hard to follow, pings. I will concede it IS practically useless on extreme mobility/lethality and snipers as your probably going down fast or theres no "chase" to proc.
I have. To put blunt and simple Bond is a perk specifically for you while salvation is for everyone else. Bond will tell you where you shouldn't go, but if you need to the others are practically forced in the corssfire. Salvation doesn't tell you where not to go but allows the others to potentially avoid said crossfire. Bond is a limited range (about average tr size if im right) but always on, salvation needs a proc but is relatively simple (not easy, but "chases" often break and go, break and go) to get a few procs and is unlimited. The chase may move but that initial ping still helps regardless of the previous sentence. And if people cant work on a gen and look around no wonder people think judgement is broken.
I mean, I like to know which way NOT to go to run into the killer. I like knowing where you came from to know whats probably been used. There are defiantly more things that mater than that.
Okay I'll try to explain again. You should not be worried about which way to go since you should be on gens not running around in a circle like a chicken with it's head cut off. You are actively throwing if you are playing in a way that salvation's cry is giving you value. Also again, salvation's cry is very short and does not give you useful information. You don't know how many pallets have been used and in what area since chase moves over time and it does not show you what pallets are gone.
But it does not let the other guy run the sure fire direction away, you have to steer yourself and probably eat that hook quicker than if you could pass by.
Even a bot does not have this issue. Seriously I cannot understand how you run into the issue of heading into the killer this often. Like the scenario you are proposing requires that a survivor be both blind and deaf, on death hook, not on a generator, right next to the killer, and that the killer would switch to you. The scenario you proposed is so convoluted that I think I can safely say that your teammate was leading the killer to you because anyone who plays like that is sandbagging the whole team. Also again it does not help with the finer details since in case you forgot it only last a few seconds.
Just for fun, what if the killer comes from the corner of the map with completed gens because the runner was making sure they're not leading them to finished gens?
Then who cares? Why are you also hiding in a corner of the map with completed gens like some kind of rat? Ever scenario you are proposing so far requires that any survivor who gets value out of this is actively trying to kill their team.
I will concede it IS practically useless on extreme mobility/lethality and snipers as your probably going down fast or theres no "chase" to proc.
I appreciate that you conceded on this at the very least. And for the sake of argument you are right that even with an undetectable killer they would still be able to see the survivor in chase. However like 80% of matches now are hyper mobility/judgment. A perk that does nothing in the vast majority of games needs should at least have a strong effect but this does not. It's a highly situational perk that only really gives value to rats actively trying to kill you.
I have. To put blunt and simple Bond is a perk specifically for you while salvation is for everyone else.
Okay then how about this. Why not just run We see you? It's far less situational than Salvation's cry, helps the whole team, and if players are good will realize that this means the killer has an aura build and can play around that.
Also again, everyone else does not need to know where the killer is (for five seconds) if you just don't lead the killer to vulnerable survivors in the first place. Even if this means you need to eat a down.
Mate. Lets assume im already on a gen like a sensible survivor and i hear the heartbeat coming. Salvation shows where they are so tells me "Hey don't go that way, thats where they're probably coming from". Thats what im getting at. Im NOT running around aimlessly as soon as i hear the beat, but knowing where they are with the beat can help me decide where NOT to go when needed. Additionally since I am show where the chase started and ended i know atleast 2 areas heavily likely to have less. Short procs don't really mean as much as you think. Im always looking around when working on gens, cause lets face it thats dull to simply stare at the gen waiting for skill checks.
You'd be surprised what bots do. But anyway its because A: people lead the killer to me so damn often (solo for the win), B: this whole conversation is me pointing out that salvation isn't complete "hot garbage" like you claim, C: Indoor maps and stealth killers exist, D: People play differently so everyone doesn't always do the same thing (Ex: the killer always going to gen A from path 4). So yes, I can see value in salvations cry even if its a meh perk. Tell me, as a injured survivor on deathhook would you go to that area with a gen being worked on (lets say 50ish progress for arguments sake) knowing theres pallets and such there? I sure would. Now if they have bond then yes, they can move themselves, but If you have bond then they have to either have to hope and pray, hide nearby (itself its own gamble on if the killer stops and searches or not) or skedaddle and hope they don't go the wrong way. Salvation can remove the "wrong way" part.
You obviously didnt read the whole "The runner was leading them " bit. Though i see where phone auto correct screwed up so fairs fair:
This:
is supposed to be this:
Im perfectly capable of be reasonable (bar 1 thing) even when i don't think if every scenario. Idk about your games but since the reset im getting alot more veriety of killers. Ghouls and blights, to bubbas and pigs. Even a hag and Krause (sadly not build variety though). And again, its not a great perk, but its still a potentially useful one to the team, and since im not a rat and get value if someone runs it, i think that last sentence is false.
Thats a better comparison than bond. They both however have advantages over one another. We see you requires either the killer to be using aura (which admittedly isn't anywhere near a problem atm) or for you to use something to reveal yourself to the killer costing half your build with both. Salvation requires a "chase" to start and thats it. We see you is unarguably more useful but you have to make it work or rely on the killers build, salvation just does its thing as long as you can last 5 seconds.
Again, sometimes you gotta go where you need to to survive and eating a down isn't a good idea. Lets put a scenario like the above. A gen has alot of progress so you obviously wana avoid it, but your also injured and death hook and that gen is where resources are. Lets say you avoid it, you go down, get hooked and hear a scream as you die. Turns out the killer hasn't hooked you with pain res yet. Now that gen is regressed enough that when the killer comes its still not done and KICK it down again with pop (as i said, i got variety of killers, not builds sadly). Now its regressed and your dead, a worthless down. Sometimes your thoughts on that would be sound, other times it will backfire.
I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. I think the point of contention just comes from different mmr levels. Since you are facing actual variety of killers instead of just the typical ones of ghouls and blights it's clear to me that to you, you are right. At minimal mmr where nobody knows what they are doing and you face a wider range of killers the perk is probably more usable. It's just at anything above starter mmr it's value becomes practically nonexistent.
Personally, I think its more an unwillingness to see the positive applications of things but very well. I feel the need to point out something though:
I may not be the best, but I've been here a very long time and know what I'm doing. Safe to say I'm out of starter mmr, even with the reset.
My guy, you don't even have over a thousand hours in survivor. I feel heavily vindicated in what I said. Thank you for your post I don't think I could have come up with a better argument for why no one is realistically getting value out of salvation's cry.
you realize that thats the dbd notoriously screwed up stat tracker right?
So you have even less hours? If it's screwed up and unreliable why bring it up as evidence in the first place?
Well showing the oldest achievement I got plus the official stats at the time seemed like a good idea to show I've been here awhile but sleep is a must.
Will this do or is this a situation of your not going to believe anything anyway?