Survivors need more gameplay identity (updated)

One thing killers have that survivors largely do not is a stronger sense of identity through gameplay.

They feel too interchangeable. You can play one survivor, switch to almost any other survivor, and the gameplay still feels mostly the same.


If we use killers as examples, Pig has stealth and Reverse Bear Traps, Knight has his three guards, and Nemesis has his zombies and whip. This is the kind of different gameplay experience killers get when they change character.


That is exactly why I think survivors could benefit from having character-exclusive items or abilities tied to who they are.


For example:

  • Meg is an athlete, so she could have an ability that reflects speed, endurance, or movement.
  • Sable practices dark powers, so she could have something unique tied to that theme.
  • Claudette is a botanist, so she could use herbs or a slow healing/support ability that fits her background.
  • Bill is a soldier, so he could have a defensive or protective ability to help hold the killer off briefly.
    Mikaela is a mystic, so she could have her own exclusive supernatural utility.


Stuff like that would make survivors feel more distinct and more interesting to play, instead of mostly being perk holders with interchangeable appearances.


I think giving survivors small character-exclusive items or trial abilities would add personality, variety, and replay value without taking away the perk system.


If killers are allowed to have gameplay identity tied directly to their character, I think survivors should have more of that too.

Tagged: Survivors

Comments

  • This has been suggested many times main arguments against it is that only the strongest of them would be played and it would hurt the variety of survivors. It can also cause more tunneling as killer would take out those that they see beneficial to them to take out. Thats why perks are better as you don't know what everyone is running so killer can't decide to take out the gen jockey and ignore the chase build or at least until they chase the chase build guy.

  • @Wezqu said:

    This has been suggested many times main arguments against it is that only the strongest of them would be played and it would hurt the variety of survivors. It can also cause more tunneling as killer would take out those that they see beneficial to them to take out. Thats why perks are better as you don't know what everyone is running so killer can't decide to take out the gen jockey and ignore the chase build or at least until they chase the chase build guy.

    That same logic can already be applied to killers though.


    If “only the strongest would be played” was enough reason to avoid character identity, then killers should not have unique powers either. People would just pick the strongest killer, the strongest perks, the strongest add-ons, or the strongest items.


    But the solution is not to remove identity. The solution is to balance it properly.


    I am not saying Meg should become impossible to catch, or Claudette should heal like a med-kit factory, or Bill should literally fight the killer. I mean small, character-themed abilities or items that add personality without becoming mandatory.


    The tunneling argument only really becomes a problem if the abilities are too strong or too obvious in value. That is a balance issue, not a reason to keep survivors feeling like skins with shared perks.
    Killers already prove that unique character gameplay can exist. I just think survivors could use a smaller version of that same idea.

  • @Putti said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4094783#Comment_4094783

    That same logic can already be applied to killers though.


    If “only the strongest would be played” was enough reason to avoid character identity, then killers should not have unique powers either. People would just pick the strongest killer, the strongest perks, the strongest add-ons, or the strongest items.


    But the solution is not to remove identity. The solution is to balance it properly.


    I am not saying Meg should become impossible to catch, or Claudette should heal like a med-kit factory, or Bill should literally fight the killer. I mean small, character-themed abilities or items that add personality without becoming mandatory.


    The tunneling argument only really becomes a problem if the abilities are too strong or too obvious in value. That is a balance issue, not a reason to keep survivors feeling like skins with shared perks.
    Killers already prove that unique character gameplay can exist. I just think survivors could use a smaller version of that same idea.

    It would also add another layer to balance and even currently the game is hard to balance. There is 53 survivors trying to invent some special power for all of them would be a huge thing to add and then also get to balance. Still this could also run into a wall with the licensed characters as some licenses might not let Behavior even do these kind of changes. There has been rumors that some licenses are not the easiest to deal with even currently.

  • @Wezqu said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4094794#Comment_4094794

    It would also add another layer to balance and even currently the game is hard to balance. There is 53 survivors trying to invent some special power for all of them would be a huge thing to add and then also get to balance. Still this could also run into a wall with the licensed characters as some licenses might not let Behavior even do these kind of changes. There has been rumors that some licenses are not the easiest to deal with even currently.

    Even if we say the number is high, that does not really defeat the idea. It just means it would need to be introduced carefully.

    They would not need to give every survivor a massive killer-style power overnight. It could start small, or start with original survivors first if licenses are an issue. The point is not “give all survivors game-breaking abilities.” The point is to make survivors feel less like interchangeable skins.

    Balance is a fair concern, but balance being difficult is not the same as the idea being bad. Killers, perks, items, add-ons, maps, and survivor perks are already hard to balance, yet the game still uses them because they add identity and variety.

    So I still think small character-themed abilities could work if they were treated as minor identity tools, not full killer powers.

  • also the game would be pay to win, you would need to pay the survivor with the best meta perk

  • @Putti said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4094796#Comment_4094796

    Small correction: it is not really 53 standard survivors unless you are counting special cases/variants too.

    But even if we say the number is high, that does not really defeat the idea. It just means it would need to be introduced carefully.

    They would not need to give every survivor a massive killer-style power overnight. It could start small, or start with original survivors first if licenses are an issue. The point is not “give all survivors game-breaking abilities.” The point is to make survivors feel less like interchangeable skins.

    Balance is a fair concern, but balance being difficult is not the same as the idea being bad. Killers, perks, items, add-ons, maps, and survivor perks are already hard to balance, yet the game still uses them because they add identity and variety.

    So I still think small character-themed abilities could work if they were treated as minor identity tools, not full killer powers.

    You need to go count them if you don't believe me this game has 53 playable survivors no skins these are survivors with perks.

    If you start adding some of them bonuses people are going to play those more because they have bonuses. You either have to add them to all or none at all as it will just make certain survivors more viable to play because in the end why you play someone who does not have a buff when you could play someone who has one.

  • @doc123 said:

    also the game would be pay to win, you would need to pay the survivor with the best meta perk

    That already applies to DBD.


    Killers are paid characters with unique powers, and survivors have had strong perks tied to characters too.
    So that is a balance issue, not a survivor identity issue.

    @Wezqu said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4094800#Comment_4094800

    You need to go count them if you don't believe me this game has 53 playable survivors no skins these are survivors with perks.

    If you start adding some of them bonuses people are going to play those more because they have bonuses. You either have to add them to all or none at all as it will just make certain survivors more viable to play because in the end why you play someone who does not have a buff when you could play someone who has one.

    I am not arguing about the number. 53 is fine.

    My point is that “people will pick the strongest option” already applies to killers, perks, items and add-ons.

    That is a balance issue, not a reason survivors cannot have more identity.

  • Some reasons its not a good thing for survivors to be unique:

    • Lisencing nightmare. They would have to bring in every license holder, rewrite their contracts and tell them they are changing everything and try to get them to each come up with a unique ability. Even the licenses they have a bad standing with.
    • Lobby dodging. Survivors would dodge lobbies if anyone goes to use specific characters. Killers would dodge lobbies when bully squads can now all pick the character with the best ability for bullying killers. Lobby dodging would go through the roof and the mmr would get shredded.
    • The future of perks. Theyd have to waste over 53 ideas on new abilities for every survivor when they could have been upcoming perks. And they've alredy nearly run out of unique ideas so they wouldn't be able to come up with that many all at once.
    • Your favorite characters now become the exact opposite to your playstyle. Or their ability is too weak so you have no incentive to play them anymore, since everyone dodges you in lobbies as well.
    • Like mentioned in above comments Targetted tunneling. Kill off the survivor with the most useful ability first like how Dwights used to be targets because they usually stuck to his perks to help people get the gens done faster.
    • Survivors are alredy strong enough. Giving them extra abilities ontop of their perks would make this a 1000% survivor sided game as one of the only advantages a killer has is unique abilities, now the other 4 players get their own as well.
  • @Putti said:

    One thing killers have that survivors largely do not is a stronger sense of identity through gameplay.


    If we use killers as examples, Pig has stealth and Reverse Bear Traps, Knight has his three guards, and Nemesis has his zombies and whip. If you strip those away, they become much more generic.


    That is exactly why I think survivors could benefit from having character-exclusive items or abilities tied to who they are.


    For example:

    • Meg is an athlete, so she could have an ability that reflects speed, endurance, or movement.
    • Sable practices dark powers, so she could have something unique tied to that theme.
    • Claudette is a botanist, so she could use herbs or a slow healing/support ability that fits her background.
    • Bill is a soldier, so he could have a defensive or protective ability to help hold the killer off briefly.
      Mikaela is a mystic, so she could have her own exclusive supernatural utility.


    Stuff like that would make survivors feel more distinct and more interesting to play, instead of mostly being perk holders with interchangeable appearances.


    I think giving survivors small character-exclusive items or trial abilities would add personality, variety, and replay value without taking away the perk system.


    If killers are allowed to have gameplay identity tied directly to their character, I think survivors should have more of that too.

    No thanks this would make swfs stronger and solo queue weaker

  • the alternative would be to make survivor perks actually function more like powers, or better items really.

    Like where is Elevens force push exhaustion (like short pushback) or a remote pallet drop.

    Where is Ada's agility

    Leon/Jill/Nicolas are among some who come with great identity (flashbang/Blastmine/Dramaturgy/Scenepartner)

    Then you have the walking dead chapter which is abysmal as an example, Last stand has such potential as does apocalyptic ingenuity but BHVR have no intention of making them fun to play.

  • @ShanoaLegendaryPlz said:

    Some reasons its not a good thing for survivors to be unique:

    • Lisencing nightmare. They would have to bring in every license holder, rewrite their contracts and tell them they are changing everything and try to get them to each come up with a unique ability. Even the licenses they have a bad standing with.
    • Lobby dodging. Survivors would dodge lobbies if anyone goes to use specific characters. Killers would dodge lobbies when bully squads can now all pick the character with the best ability for bullying killers. Lobby dodging would go through the roof and the mmr would get shredded.
    • The future of perks. Theyd have to waste over 53 ideas on new abilities for every survivor when they could have been upcoming perks. And they've alredy nearly run out of unique ideas so they wouldn't be able to come up with that many all at once.
    • Your favorite characters now become the exact opposite to your playstyle. Or their ability is too weak so you have no incentive to play them anymore, since everyone dodges you in lobbies as well.
    • Like mentioned in above comments Targetted tunneling. Kill off the survivor with the most useful ability first like how Dwights used to be targets because they usually stuck to his perks to help people get the gens done faster.
    • Survivors are alredy strong enough. Giving them extra abilities ontop of their perks would make this a 1000% survivor sided game as one of the only advantages a killer has is unique abilities, now the other 4 players get their own as well.

    I think most of these are fair concerns, but they are mostly balance concerns, not reasons the idea cannot work.

    Licensing could be an issue, sure. But then they could start with original survivors first, or make licensed survivor abilities more generic/minor.

    Lobby dodging and tunneling would only become a huge problem if the abilities were strong enough to make one survivor an obvious target. That is why I keep saying small identity tools, not full killer powers or free meta perks.

    The “53 ideas” point also depends on how big you imagine these abilities being. I am not saying every survivor needs a complex new power. Some could be very small character-themed effects or items.

    And survivors being strong enough is exactly why these should not be massive buffs stacked on top of everything else. They could be minor, situational, or even come with trade-offs.

    My point is not “give survivors free power.” My point is that survivors currently feel too interchangeable, and there should be room to give them more identity without breaking the game.