Jason balancing needs
Ok, guys, so… after a long PTB and a couple days of Jason-non-stop, I guess it's time we talk about his balancing needs. As of now, he's around 7.41% pick rate and 30.23% 4-kills-rate (which, surprisingly, is higher than Kaneki, considering many players are deeming Jason as a "Tier A Killer", while Kaneki is "Tier A+/S- Killer").
Here are some of my observations so far.
- His Omnipresent Evil mode needs higher cooldown. The reason being that… contrary to initial belief, Jason sinergizes really well with a lot of gen regression perks, gen blockage perks, haste perks, totem perks, anti-healing perks, you name it (and I'm not even talking about his addons). On top of that, this special mode allows him to travel really fast through the map, apply pressure in multiple survivors and even allow him to abuse slugging, due to the nature of his power, that forces people to crouch, losing speed in the process and thus taking longer to rescue allies. It's paramount that his special mode gets a longer cooldown and is used strategically.
- Interactions with survivors perks. As of now, there is not a single survivor perk that "helps" against him. People are using two perks in specific, Urban Evasion and Calm Spirit. Urban Evasion is "ok" if you want to move around and avoid detection by his red-mist mechanic… but Calm Spirit, Idk if it's intended, but there is some interactions that are, imo, bugged. As we all know, Jason gets killer instinct everytime he exits O-E mode, meaning survivors cannot hide in lockers to avoid detection. Some reports have been saying that survivors are screaming even with Calm Spirit equipped, even inside lockers. Now… I don't know if that is true (the locker part), but I have tested and I screamed when I was near another survivor, even though I had Calm Spirit. Calm Spirit specifically says that "you do not scream", which translates to "you do not scream under any circumstance".
My suggestion is: tie his Killer Instinct to the screaming action, and fix this Calm Spirit bug.
Calm Spirit = 1 less "OP perk" by survivors, which pairs really well with Jason builds sinergies.
This won't turn Jason's life a living hell while also helping survivors (that want to be helped) to avoid easy detection.
I do believe these small changes will balance things out. I've been watching some streamers too, and a lot of people are struggling against Jason, from different countries, different gameplay levels, and it's not like Jason requires "a university degree" to understand how to play against him and with him, so… the only explanation lies in the numbers. What are your thoughts on the situation?
Comments
Literally just crouch. If you crouch, he doesn't get to know where you are. This is another situation of people refusing to learn the counterplay. I'm doing just fine against him most games because when he goes into his mode, you just crouch and you are completely immune to the jump scare.
And on top of that, you can crouch walk.
Yeah and you can crouch walk too so you don't have to stay still.
People running Urban Evasion and Calm Spirit to deal with Jason's OE power is the most clear example of why my soloq teammates sucks. Half of the survivor playerbase just avoids trying to learn the counterplay, prefering to rely on perks even if they suck and Bhvr's "QoL" updates to carry them. Not a single survivor perk should diminish a killer's power. Jason players can sleep well knowing that thankfully these 2 perks are so bad and aren't dealbreakers (unlike a certain perk from Quentin)
As for Jason. Imo he might be almost perfect. I wouldn't tweak him much aside the anti-camp panelty which is too high. The OE cooldown is set at 12s from what i am seeing. Could be 15s but still very reasonable considering he has to look for spots to reload at and unlike the bat form, he cannot just cancel it at any spot. I would just leave him alone for next 2 months and after that, see if he could use some tweaks.
Ok, I've been doing this. However, since he can (and will) enter his special mode very often, this leaves survivors "doing nothing" for an extensive period of time (if you "sum up" all the time you spent crouching and "walking away" of a gen you were repairing to avoid being detected). Also, as I previously mentioned, Jason builds sinergies are amazing, and that includes aura-reading perks. He's "more or less" aware of where survivors are, which direction they were moving, etc. So, yeah… all points taken in consideration, he's got mobility, he's got map pressure, he's got haste + slow on survivors hit by the spears, he's got it all.
Plus, if you are just walking around the map, he detects you. If you crouch and stay still, he can also detect you. So, basically, the "ideal counterplay" is: crouch and keep walking away from the gen. Since most survivors deem Urban Evasion as a wasted perk slot, they can't walk away from the gen faster than Jason can get to it, so, basically, it's a "useless strategy". If i'm not mistaken, he's got some exhaustion addons as well, which renders Sprint Burst useless. He can also hear you when you're injured, and see pools of blood, no? Which renders Overcome useless as well. Lucky Break + Bite the Bullet + Self-care + Botany knowledge are all rendered useless considered he can see you with the red mist mechanic. Iron Will also becomes useless, as he can see your pools of blood and if you brought an exhaustion perk, you'll be exhausted and thus Iron Will will be deactivated. Calm Spirit is useless, as I have explained above… so far, no decent survivor build against him. What are your suggestions? I'm open to hear them.
When Doctor shocks, you hop in a locker, doing 'nothing.' When you hear ghoul coming, you hold W to the next loop and hide, doing nothing. Jason is not doing anything with OE that isn't standard in counter-play. It is boring I openly admit, but it's not problematic or in any way unique. His counters are actually incredibly easy and generous : crouch. Crouch and you have disabled half his kit.
I understand this seems frustrating but the portion of the counter-play you are neglecting is that you don't just crouch all game and walk in circles. You crouch and move ; until Jason engages chase. Once he's in chase with someone you burn down gens. He's more than likely not coming for you while engaged in chase, and you have HUD indicators telling you if he's in chase.
Perks do help as well. Urban evasion isn't great, but does do wonders to counter him. Calm spirit helps, ish, but is unnecessary. The standard three gen rush perks and urban more than counter-act him.
That being said, while I understand frustration : He's been out for less than a week and you are already determining it is time to discuss nerfing him? Half the player base doesn't even counter-play him yet. How can you determine its time to nerf him when the bulk of the player base hasn't even engaged with his mechanics in the fashion around which he was balanced? No offense intended - this just comes off as premature.
This is for you, scott gives some advice on how to deal with him:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJi8dVgBnecSee, already there i can tell you aren't even reading or trying to learn the counter. He cannot detect you if you crouch even if you don't move. The point is that you CAN move, so you don't have to "just do nothing" and he can't see pools of blood while you are injured. Even if you are injured, if you JUST CROUCH you make ZERO noise. This is a basic mechanic and feature of the game. So again, this is just blatantly obvious that you have no idea what you are talking about. If you play the killer literally once, you would know these things.
You see… here is where you are mistaken. Sometimes, he sees the red mist briefly when approaching the area you were "last seen doing something"… even if you are "crouching" near the area, moving-crouched. I don't know if that is intended, and I cannot explain why this happens. Also, I'm not supposed to scream when I'm crouched, right? Sometimes, it happens and sometimes don't. I cannot explain this also. Maybe you should play survivor more? (I just asked a friend to test this with me. This friend believes that there is a delay, and you need to crouch before Jason enter the O-E mode.)
About the blood, you are correct. About the "injured noise", you are incorrect. If you turn your volume up and have decent headphones, you can hear the survivor moaning, albeit not as loud if you are out of O-E mode, like any normal killer would. This happens because you keep hearing the ''vooosh'' sound, and it masks the moaning sound (not entirely).
And none of this alters his map pressure, how good he is at slugging, at proxy-camping (as there are pallets and windows everywhere), his mobility, how absurdly good is that 10% slow (that forces survivor to run at 3.6m/s), etc.
Please read the power, i'm begging you. The aura and footsteps linger for 2.5 seconds, so its intentional. You are telling on yourself so hard here. https://deadbydaylight.wiki.gg/wiki/Jason_Voorhees
Basically, you become immune to it after crouching for a couple of seconds. You can see it with the mist. If you crouch, you see the mist start to get bigger until it covers a bunch of the screen. That is how you know you are immune.
And again, with injured, you are still wrong here. this is a BASIC MECHANIC OF THE GAME and has nothing to do with jason. If you are injured, and you crouch, after a few seconds you will make 0 noise.
I trully commend you on how hard you are trying to paint me as a fool, however, I've been playing dead by daylight for 7 years already, and I play as Killer and as Survivor. Never, in 7 years, as a survivor, I crouched and stopped moaning completely, and as a Killer, I have found countless survivors that had no Iron Will and were crouching somewhere, just by hearing them. Even if you ask any AI, it'll tell you this:
Also, I was testing these things with a friend… on Coal Tower map, if you are familiar with numberpad localization method some players use, Jason was on 2 (main building) and I was on 7, near the shack. The moment he immediately entered his O-E mode, I crouched. No gen being repaired. As he came close to my location, he could also see where I was, briefly… my "red mist" blinked briefly in his screen. So, basically, we need to guess when Jason will enter his O-E mode? That is simply absurd. That 2.5 seconds delay should be removed. Coal Tower is not the biggest map, but it's also not the smallest, and he could detect me easily. So, no… I'm not playing a fool, nor telling on myself.
Do you remember when Kaneki was released? So many players were asking for nerfs, while killer mains were rejoicing and saying "survs cry too much, learn how to play against it". Kaneki was one of the most lethal killers of all times, alongside Nurse, Spirit, Blight, etc. Were they all making a fool of themselves?
well instead of asking chatgpt because that is how it works against most killers but jason is unique i suggest you check his page which is endorsed by bhvr themselves
Jason Voorhees - The Slasher - Official Dead by Daylight Wiki
You cannot see Survivors. Nearby Survivors can be sensed with Mist Clouds if they are standing still or with Footprints when they are moving.
Survivors who are crouch walking cannot be sensed by any means.
meaning unlike other killers even if a survivor is injured as long as they crouch his thing cannot see them at all and he cannot hear them. So if jason literally goes into his power to chase you. immedately start crouch walking and you will be fine.
Good to know you basically ignored everything I said just to tell me "Jason works differently". So, instead of making a huge text, I'll simplify it for you.
What I have tested (and the results match with what other people are saying):
What I have tested (and the results does not match with what other people are saying):
hmm. yeah maybe i cant hear it over the loud wooshing in my ears i don't play with that intensity lol. ear pain is a serious deal.
I'm done. If you are gonna try arguing with me by draining a lake so you can get a hallucinated response and not actually using your brain go for it, no point in trying.
Yea just crouch walk while someone is on hook, making zero objective progress. Meanwhile, Jason has crossed the map, triggered 4 slowdown perks, and can instantly return to hook to tunnel if everyone decides to "do nothing to counter the killer's power".
It's not like you're pulling a lot of effort in trying to see things by "my pov" anyway. You cherrypick sentences that I wrote and that you find easier to invalidate and that's basically it. You're already commited on not seeing logic in anything I comment. Have a nice weekend. Bye!
Thanks for summarizing. That's basically it. The counter to Jason is ''crouch-walk your way through the match''. If you're not using "urban evasion", good luck being half-useful.
Would prefer ditching perma haste but if that's not an option, a meaningful cooldown would be something.
Imo, that could also be an option… I mean… technically, he is a 4.4m/s Killer… but since he gets 20s (or so) 4,5% haste (with 12s cooldown or so), he's basically a 4.6m/s Killer, no?
4,4 + 4,545% = 4,59998 m/s, right?
Yes, 25 seconds.