JCglitchmaster perfectly shows and explains how broken Cross-Examination is
This is just a screenshot from his Video. In 10 years of making a game and gaining experience you would expect the devs to learn to not make such broken perks but nope. Watch the full video for everyone that is interested. https://youtu.be/g72n4rlRDwY?is=bqgGk7-yM_JlDMz0
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I mean, did we really need a cc to come to this conclusion?
no lol
Nah, watching dbd content creators isn't healthy for us.
The examples used to showcase how "broken" the perk is are bad.
RPD - The killer sees which direction JC is going and clearly just doesn't follow
Greenville - The killer sees him go to shack and then picks up their spear, probably aiming at someone else
Springwood - Elusive doesn't start until he has run a ways back into the building, there would be scratchmarks going into the building
Disturbed Ward - this is the only one where it maybe lost the killer but its not like the killer actually looked for very long
In all cases JC cuts as quickly as possible to the next clip removing all context from what the killer is choosing to do next. In the disturbed ward example in particular Jason is still possibly nearby in Omnipresent Evil and would start hearing sounds from them. Do people just forget that there isn't any MMR on the PTB?
I'm fine with the perk getting changed but I also think the concern for it is incredibly overblown. JC in particular is incredibly entitled and shouldn't be used as a source for game balance.
Or… we could just buff the bad perks people don't use. Low profile is bad and needs serious help just like most of the other perks listed.
OP did a bit of a disservice with this screenshot, because it misses the original context and point the video was trying to make.
BHVR in the past knew that stealth perks which could be used in chase needed to have some kind of activation condition in order for them to be balanced. This does unfortunately mean that the activation condition is too limiting to be usable for most, but the alternative of making one that's too strong is far worse than making just another underpowered perk.
They probably do still know this, they just misfired on Cross Examination, because… well, quite bluntly, I don't think they're good enough at their own game to know how to play tiles well enough to make use of this perk. Most likely when they play survivor, they behave like most bad survivors I run into, aka they do one loop at a tile, either misplay and get hit or drop the pallet, then leave.
I'm actually not trying to be mean with that, unlike a lot of people I don't expect the devs to be masters at this extremely unique game with no transferable skills from any other game. But that's why it's critical we give them feedback when they mess up. Which they did here.
Even more now when their balance cadence has come to a screeching halt and they don't seem willing to make meaningful balance adjustments. If this perk goes live it could make killers insufferable to play for months due to bad survivors not knowing how to use it well and running defense for it (like what's going on in this thread to be blunt). Basically Made For This 2: Electric Boogaloo
The last balance updates were a month ago. You think balance changes have come to a halt because its the current topic content creators have been piling into to get views. Were those updates ideal? No, but considering they came along with diminishing returns it seems likely that diminishing returns was the development focus.
Months? How often in recent history has it actually taken months to make changes based on killer complaints, even over the most mild of topics? Fast track was updated in 9.5 on March 17th and then nerfed in 9.6 on April 28th, just barely over a month and honestly not enough time to get real data about the perk. Fog vials were nerfed a week after release and the same patch that nerfed them re-enabled streetwise (meaning it took less than a week to killswitch) but sure it took FOREVER for them to make those changes. It took them longer to fix Springtrap being invisible coming out of doors and this was the same amount of time it took them to nerf Krasue from her ridiculous release state.
Did you watch the video? I watched it, there is no context to it that makes the perk seem good. Where are the matches that show JC getting owned by the perk if its such a problem? Why do they never show themselves losing to the perk(s) and instead only show matches they won?
If the patch goes live as is and it truly makes killers miserable then it will be patched within a couple weeks and given the overreaction we see here and elsewhere I don't expect it will go live as is. Face facts, killer complaints have the developers ears and get fixed all while pushing through shadow nerfs to the survivor side (I am still waiting for a content creator to cover how easy blocking pallet saves has become for killers). Survivor players are simply not allowed even a single bad match or they are labelled as bad or needing to learn. Killers get sympathy.
First off why would they show footage of them losing to it? That could be dismissed as a skill issue. It's better to show footage of them using it effectively.
Secondly, it took them months to deal with problematic perks in the past. Sometimes years. Regardless of side. Though objectively speaking, overall, overpowered survivor perks last longer than overpowered killer perks.
Pain Resonance, the genkick meta, Circle of Healing, Dead Hard, Decisive Strike, Made For This.
Vigil has been quietly overpowered for ages now.
I look at this perk and I see Made For This and Vigil. A perk that is incredibly powerful that won't get fixed for a long time if it goes live.
Everything gets passed off as a skill issue, you did it yourself.
It doesn't have to just be them showing themself losing to it, they can show both themself using it and themself losing to it but its always just matches of them winning against perks they say are problematic.
I see a single instance that maybe shows them using Cross Examination effectively, their last example at disturbed ward, but its a chase at main building so the killer could have simply decided to drop chase especially with a single gen left (can't tell if main is completed or not) and JC with no hooks. Again this is on the PTB without MMR, we have no idea what the skill level of any of these killer is. JC's skill level can at least be gleaned from the rest of their content.
The most recent of these is Made for This (I think) which came out and was nerfed in 2023, that isn't recent and while five months is a while it isn't years. I am not saying this never happens (or happened) or that it couldn't happen again but it hasn't actually happened recently. Vigil could absolutely take another hit (nerfed September last year, though it was the least they could do) and shouldn't effect killer powers but I don't think it truly rises to the level of Made for This or the others you mention.
To some extent I accept that I am simply skeptical of complaints about survivor perks here. All three of Henry's perks are decent but I saw more comments about the survivor perks than his, even the near useless teamwork ones.
Or killers could just adapt and use perks to counter it? Screams, breathing, footsteps, and just not loosing them in the first place would be good.
If you aren't trying to argue in bad faith, I implore you to watch a video discussing this perk and why it's a problem with an open mind to see the problems with it.
But the short version is that it isn't realistically possible to keep eyes on the survivor at all times in a chase, which is the reason why this perk is a problem. There are a lot of loops in the game which block line of sight and force both sides to guess as to the other's location and what they're going to do. Any jungle gym, shack, most main buildings. These are the situations where the perk becomes a problem.
Breathing cannot be used to track in these situations. Being able to track survivors by breath is important for killers who literally cannot see the survivors (Spirit and Dracula), and for everyone else it helps you find survivors who are trying to hide right next to you, but it won't help you at jungle gyms.
Scream perks are all conditional, as in something needs to activate them. Kick a pallet, open a locker, or just wait out a timer and have the survivor look at you, which you have no control over. The only perk which might help is Ultimate Weapon and all it will do is let you know if the survivor left the loop or not.
What perk do you think will help in this situation, exactly? Keep in mind that Elusive hides your aura and scratch marks.
It's not realistic for survivors to have something to counter everything killers can do just like it's unrealistic for killers to have counters to everything survivors can do. All I'm saying is that if any of your complaints are actually right then killers do have things they can use if heaven forbid the meta changes slightly.
The only counter to Cross-Examination is the Undetectable, and Oblivious status's, so if it goes live, especially in its currently broken state (wherein it affects survivors on multiple level maps killer leaves trail on floor below you, you still get elusive by walking over it on your level, and it activates from in front of the killer when they're within striking distance; basically a free Lucky Break for 5 seconds every time they hit you with a basic attack)… Expect killers adopting a new "Stealth Meta". I'm sure that will make survivors games way more fun!
Now I'm pretty sure you are arguing in bad faith.
I asked you to name something and you can't. I already explained why scream perks won't help and you didn't refute my points.
This tells me you rarely if ever play killer since you don't know what you're talking about. You just think there's some nebulous perk killers have that can deal with Cross-Examination because surely killers have something.
No, they don't, killers have no answer to this perk whatsoever.
And yes, some things are uncounterable. Survivors can't stop most regression perks and killers can't stop Sprint Bursting away from gens. But regression perks are literally required for most of the killer roster to even have a chance against good survivors, and Sprint Burst just gives you a strong opening to a chase and the rest is up to your skill.
Cross-Examination is active literally at all times at any loop higher than a chest high wall, killers can't do anything to prevent it, and it gives survivors an insane edge at any mindgame.
It's so exhausting with this community. The tribalism is insane. I am coming at this as someone who plays both sides. I've seen people defend insanely broken perks in the past like Dead Hard for distance, Boon: Circle of Healing, Made For This… it never ends. Killers do this too but it's so much more common among survivors. And I know why, it's because survivor takes forever to learn compared to the intuitive nature of killer, and it's possible and even common to lose as a survivor in the same match the killer also lost (1k/2k scenarios).
If you don't play killer which I know you don't based on what you're telling me then you just think killers have it easy, but they really do not especially right now.
Scream perks, multiple killer powers like say doctor or legion. I mean I know that some people may say that's unfair to nurse and blight but eh I'm fine with perks that are stronger against S tier killers and make lower tier ones good. You can also try using undetectable since the perk has the requirement of being in the killers terror radius so once again a perk that is weak against killers like ghostface and wraith. Then there's just undetectable perks in general, and since the effect only lasts for a few seconds you can also just use a bunch of aura perks to find the survivor again.
I will say it's extremely rude of you to assume bad faith but I digress. Also, there's always mindbreaker to counter sprint burst from gens and there's the new divine killer perk coming out that halves the effect of any exhaustion perk if I recall correctly.
Anyway killers do have it easy, I mean for goodness sake tell me when there's a thousand+ survivor escape streak and I'll fully agree that survivors have it too easy. Until we get to that point however I'll continue to point out the basic truth that this game is fundamentally designed to be catered to killers. Just look at how the devs tried making hits fair by making them validated by the server and killers complained and instantly got that removed. They have literally come out and said they balance the game around the killers winning 60% of the time, objectively killers have it easy because the developers of the game are balancing it in their favor.
Scream perks won't help, I already explained why, stop bringing them up or refute me and explain why I'm wrong (you can't, because I'm not, and you don't know what you're talking about).
The rest of this post confirmed my suspicions: you do not play killer, you look at the killer role as a monolith, a single role where everyone who plays it doesn't care which killer they pick, not 43 different characters. You have such a lack of understanding of any killer that it's actually insane. You must literally never pick the role ever.
Doctor is less effected by it but means nothing to people who don't like playing Doctor. He has a really niche playstyle based around carefully timing shocks to deny survivor actions without losing distance and he's also one of the weakest killers in the game.
Legion has always had the problem that after the first hit, they must chase you like a normal killer, which means their power doesn't counter this perk.
Ghost Face can be revealed out of stealth from wonky angles or just by other survivors who might be nearby not actively involved in the chase. He's also extremely weak and it means nothing to people who don't like playing Ghost Face.
Wraith handles jungle gyms like an M1 killer, his stealth doesn't work in chase except to deny holding W or to try to get hit at chest-high wall 50/50 pallets where Cross-Examination doesn't do anything.
This is tangential to the discussion about Cross-Examination but you do not want to use Mind Breaker if you want to counter Sprint Burst. Mind Breaker makes Sprint Burst 10x more effective, because the most effective thing you can do with Sprint Burst is use it mid-chase instead of at the start of a chase. The only thing you did is make it easier for the survivor to 99 their Sprint Burst. This is why you almost never see anybody but stealth killers run it despite the fact Sprint Burst is so powerful.
You don't even understand how aura perks work. You think aura perks are just a button the killer presses that tells them where the survivors are for free? The closest it comes is Nowhere to Hide, which still requires a gen with progress on it nearby to kick.
And no, killers do not get thousand+ win streaks. Blight and Nurse got those. Because they're insanely overpowered. Most of the killer roster is not them. And they don't care that much about Cross-Examination. Because Blight can so easily pivot between chases, if he loses a survivor because of Cross-Examination then it's quick for him to get into a new chase. Meanwhile Nurse doesn't even play tiles, she just guesses where you are and teleports onto you, so the perk doesn't effect her at all.