Leverage should be 50% instead of 30%
Leverage didn't need the compensation nerf when its duration was buffed, that's pretty much it. I want a good anti-heal perk to match some healing options on the survivor end and I feel like Leverage is a pretty healthy perk
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tbh mangled and hemorhage should just be "until healed"
Agreed. The speed-healing meta is in the background of Trials but still certainly present, and anti-healing perks should be buffed to be able to match their strength.
With addition of so many new healing stuffs hemmorage and mangled can be unlimited again and easily leverage can be buffed to 50-75 % for 60s.
Agree. Jagged Compass, Gift of Pain, PainRes, and Leverage was such a unique build that was also healthy (you don't camp, slug, or tunnel) but with the Leverage nerf, the build became rather weak since the quicker heal is noticeable and having a survivor that heals -30% slower for like 40 seconds is also rather useless. The first 30 seconds really matter. Leverage was also a decent perk on its own but now rather useless.
I don't understand why the devs needed to nerf this perk in such a way.
Also agree. Basically every Mangled and Haemorrhage addon became useless because by the time you pick up, carry, and hook the survivor and they get unhooked, the effects are over and the heal is quick, especially with strong perks like Resurgence that reward the survivor for getting hooked. Otherwise, survivors have so much strong healing stuff. Back then when they nerfed it, it was kinda understandable but I wish they rather had nerfed/changed the numbers instead of this awful time based change.
Then people will go back to the stay injured meta, so no thanks lol
That meta inherently has a risk associated with it, however.
Leverage could definitely be adjusted again for sure.
Though, if all you want is just a good anti-heal option, I really can't recommend Gift of Pain/Weeping Wounds enough. The actual slowdown is only secondary, it's a perk that punishes survivors for healing up immediately and is a direct counter to Resurgence because of it.
I don't think the percentage nerf was a compensation for the duration increase i think it was the other way around.
Sort of? You'll just get WGLF + made for this and dead hard etc, I much rather facing healing than full endurance shenanigans, both being viable is a good thing.
Healing debuffs especially Gift of Pain are still really effective I find since they activate on hook, I've also been seeing a few plagues ever since the healing meta came about again and I'm happy about that.
what would be nice is if the likes of No Quarter were buffed, so we had more options vs self healing. Leverage + Gift of Pain is really strong (I've faced it on survivor side a few times).
Blanket debuffs are just bad design, there should always be an answer. Forcing a 30 second or whatever heal that can be lost in a second is just frustrating as an "answer", especially for people who don't want to run healing perks.
I think we should have strong anti heal, but healing debuffs being permanent is not the way to go about it.
I think that the existence of hit-and-run Killers, many of whom are weak, means that anti-healing efforts should include debuffs (until, in this case, someone's healed) and more diverse perk combos.
I find they have felt weaker since the pallet update more than anything, not because of anti-heal. It really hurts solo Q, I used to hate playing the game when sloppy was used in nearly every match.
It's still an effective perk it's just not king of the hill, nor should it be, I still face it, the duration it has lasts over a minute, if a survivor hasn't been chased for 90 seconds (which is like a third of a common match). That's on you.
Sloppy should mean that Survivors have to really commit to a heal if they want one — a Killer perk should not be so weak as to eventually mean a Survivor does not have to make a difficult choice.
No? How does waiting it out have no risk? Would you rather they just outright ignore it and run endurance/second chance perks to counter the hit and run playstyle outright because the only answer wastes so much time.
As a survivor player, waiting out the duration does have a risk, I'm injured for the duration. Also if you want it to apply off hook just use gift of pain, it's right there?
When I play killer i really like pairing Dying Light/Gift of pain/thana together sometimes for slowdown too, gift of pain is really effective, especially intercepting heals at hooks. Sloppy just isn't the answer to all healing pressure now.
Hit and run wasn't effected, people just gaslit themselves that the perk is worthless when it still can be pretty darn effective, as someone who runs healer perks it still does its job.
People still run endurance and second-chance perks frequently, so your smoking gun of a point has remained around anyway, meaning that Sloppy had no valid reason to be nerfed.
Not worthless, but definitely weaker than it should be, especially since it's commonly used by Killers like The Ghost Face and Sadako, who are weak enough already.
It's not a smoking gun, I'm pointing out you'll see more of them if you change back to the balancing approach, there was plenty valid reason for sloppy's change you clearly weren't reading the developer notes. They changed it because it's all people were using over other anti-heal, now I see more options used. You bring old Sloppy back, you're conditioning what we used to have in play.
There is nothing wrong with multiple builds being viable, it's better for the games health.
It's not weaker than it should be, it's effective, I still see people use it. GF/Sadako aren't weak because sloppy got nerfed, it's to do with their power design. They can still use Sloppy/Surge etc just fine, I personally really like Rapid/STBFL to counter the healing meta coz anyone who body blocks me feeds my stacks or gives me speed.
If you want diversity, then you don't force people to use other things by punishing them for using what they currently are utilizing. I mean, that's the reason that the anti-tunneling and slugging changes failed.
I never said that they were weak because those perks got nerfed; I pity their designs more than before since perks that made them tolerable got nerfed.
You clearly didn't read the perk usage rates back then:
No one used any other form of anti-heal at all, in the top 10 back when it was the way it was. I'm tired of people pretending things weren't a certain a way lmao when they were. Bare in mind this is when STBFL post 6.1.0 didn't lose stacks on M2 and was at its stronger values btw.
This doesn't disprove what I said. In fact, it emphasizes how other anti-heal perks weren't made as valuable as Sloppy in their own way.
They've sinced buffed anti-heal perks over time and provided more options, IDK why you're so ignorant to the current state of the game. We've even lost syringes at this point. They are still making changes but going back to how it was is not good for anyone.
DBD moves faster than it used to, 90 seconds is a long time. The only way I'll ever accept perma debuffs coming back is if we get a cleanse item, to provide some kind of counterplay and play more into the survival horror resource management of the game.
Nobody likes something that's uninteractive.
You're completely ignoring how they buffed said perks after Sloppy was nerfed, which, as I've explained, is a flawed approach to creating enticing diversity.
Survivors have lost Syringes but gained stronger versions of perks like Resurgence and Botany Knowledge, the strength of which balance out the loss of that add-on. Plus, the new effect of Syringes isn't even bad.
The counterplay to not getting debuffed by Sloppy unless you heal is to not get hit.
Sloppy isn't uninteractive. It involves getting chased and partially losing it by getting hit. Old Eruption? Now, that was uninteractive.
Or at least pause while on hook
I could live with that nerf, if it got buffed to be permanent, aside from those two conditions.
See that's a more reasonable request, I just don't think the permanent is the solution here. Coz then why would you bring gift of pain over sloppy?
As for Hoper, You just regurgitated what I told you at this point so I'm not reading or responding to that anymore, I at least showed you the extreme end when it was permanent.
You could at least prove how there is no healing perk diversity rn if you're gonna say that.
Edit: better yet let's look at the most recent stats https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/458829/new-stats-for-the-world-via-japan
Healing perks on both sides are barely utilised for the world, favouring perks that stay injured or focus on chase. So in short, there is no healing "META" rn, people are making that up. They are just viable builds.
I didn't "just" regurgitate what you said. It's okay to admit that you have weak and/or no more arguments, rather than lie about what I did/did not do.
You did, what I said:
"They've sinced buffed anti-heal perks over time and provided more options, IDK why you're so ignorant to the current state of the game. We've even lost syringes at this point. They are still making changes but going back to how it was is not good for anyone."
You:
"You're completely ignoring how they buffed said perks after Sloppy was nerfed, which, as I've explained, is a flawed approach to creating enticing diversity."
Also check the edited post above it has recent stats the suggest no healing meta is currently common in the world, it's still mainly stay injured/chase.
So either get some evidence, or just keep going off of vibes alone, which isn't gonna get you far.
The wording is similar, but our points are different. You're saying there is valid diversity; I'm saying it isn't valid because it was achieved by punishing people who used a popular perk.
That, and you completely ignored how I commentated on syringes' still-present effectiveness and Sloppy's very-much present interactivity.
What "evidence" are you looking for? Because, you've lied about what I did/did not do and presented supposedly valid evidence that's been logically disproven, only to be chronologically misinterpreted.
After I figured out that this also affects self healing, no it definitely should not. If it was exclusive to altruistic healing, then sure, but not if it's going to affect all healing
Why shouldn't it affect self-healing?
Exactly, the difference is I gave you evidence that it hasn't changed the survivor/gen regression meta with it being permanent or not. It only affected people who didn't run healing perks.
Brother, Syringes do not affect healing anymore. You're not paying attention.
Just anything to back up any of your claims, if you want to convince me, tell me how the Sloppy affects the game?
Coz right now let me summarise it for the people here:
-Healing perks are not the META they will never be META, they never have been, people will bring Medkits which SUTURE BYPASSES the heal speed reduction.
-Sloppy just discouraged usage of already under represented perks, people would favour chase.
-Killers will always go for Gen regression, but like the healing perks, anti-heal isn't unviable outside of the select few like "No-Quarter" which could get buffed to not require a TR or whatever.
So in short, making Sloppy Permanent, just makes the game more frustrating for one side, coz it made tunneling easier more than anything. Hit and Run playstyles are unaffected, the slow downs for m1 killers comes from the pallet update on certain maps and outdated killer design.
I'm speaking from someone who has played this game for 10 years since launch, I play less killer than I do survivor, but I do know how things work on both sides.
Making Sloppy permanent is not the solution.
Because you're being altruistic by saving from hook, not selfless. It doesn't make sense for this perk to affect self healing, it's supposed to prevent under hook healing for the unhooked survivor. If you want to stop self heals, run Coulrophobia, Sloppy or No Quarter.
Metas can take time to take hold or even be recognized in passing. Why would that be the case here? Because players place so much emphasis on chase and repair perks since they, respectively, support the commonly-deemed most enjoyable part of the game or directly affect a progression objective. Healing involves macro-play, which is the least popular aspect of the three categories, as indicated by many players disliking tunneling and slugging and the low pick-rates for macro-based Killers like The Hag and The Twins.
My commentary on syringes was an aside, as indicated by the usage of the word "plus." You're not paying attention to the intention of language.
Healing was never a meta? Really? We live in a world where pre-nerf Circle of Healing existed, and you're sincerely saying that stuff? You clearly don't know how things work on both sides if you're making such flawed, sweeping generalizations. As such, this conversation is dishonest and will not be engaged in any further by me.
Your points are too disconnected for me to make sense of them.
It makes no sense for the perk to affect self healing as is. It should be turned up, but shouldn't affect self healing