Addon dependent killers
Can we make killers more versitale on basekit and not that some just need certain addon or group of addons to be even playable.
Killers like wraith if you dont have one of uncloak reduction addon than you need 3 seconds to uncloak which gives survivor free distance to closest loop if they keep running or you need to have faster breaking addons to clear paletts faster or make mindgames at windows viable. Bubba is fun to killer but nowdays he is more fun to go against then play as and why, because if you dont have beast marks (green addon but yellow version is good too) then he is horrible with his power on loops, tell me when did you saw bubba main without beast marks win some good mindgame on loop with his saw i gues you didnt in very long time, his latest buff gave him chilli basekit which helped a lot but before that his best addons were some chilliy with beast marks and now beast marks stayed (if we look at his DBD clone billy he was before his update very dependent on simular addon but now he isnt). Another killer that is very dependent on one addon group is doctor and his discipline addon class which is very needed for him to be able to outplay survivors on loops, if you have good ping (which is rare in DBD for many people) which is needed on doctor for his shocks to work how they should then discipline addon is still huge buff for him and shoul be more basekit than just addon which is needed for his kit to work, if you shock survivor who just finished some vaulting action like vaulting palett or window or he is in the vaulting action and will finish it then this survivor can spawn vault option and vault imideatly again right after he screamed from shock because theres delay but with discipline addon this wont happen in most cases which shows just how this addon is needed.
The killer which is great exsample is now pyramidhead who got some addon rework and before that he just had 3 addons which were all range addons and all others were just unusable maybe few were but in very limited builds and were just super weak compare to range addons which just overshadow his other addons. Now he got much more addons which are fun and can be used in more playstyles and his range addons were tuned down and given to his basekit (before he got 8 meters range basekit and with addons you got like 11 or 11,5 meters range for you punishment but now his basekit is 10 meters).
I didnt mentioned weak killers like trapper, skullmerchant and gostface because even they need very good addons to be playable against decent survivors the addonst arent their problem but its their powers which are very underpowered and weak, this is key reason why they are so weak and bad compare to other killers even to the ones I mentioned above.
Comments
Thast true there are now many killers which need this for many reason one is they are addon dependent, other is there are just few addons which are for their main power and many addons for their secundary like nemesis, demogoragan.
I recall xeno needed 1 addon in particular every time to not instantly be burnt out from turrets, so they just nerfed it, and made it harder to be burnt out from turrets basekit. The rest of the addons got adjustments but dont do anything new lol
that addon's value was largely overrated.
It was nice to see it in basekit as a compensation for nerfs, but you could deal with turrets just fine w/o it back then.
No you could not. Unless we have a different definition of the word "fine".
we clearly do and yours is wrong.
I was aware of that. But if a turret ever caught you by surprise the addon made your reaction time to it much higher, making it feel like a strong addon, while everything else in the list was so minor that i usually just used nothing but that addon and the brown egg addon that makes the tail come back faster. With those 2 alone i barely felt a need to even experiment with the others. Now i like using the one that lets you see footsteps farther while in tunnels and the brown egg still.
I agree that killers should be viable even without add-ons. That said, which killers are those that are add-on dependant?
Imo, Hag is a good contender, she depends heavily on range add-ons and Rusty Shackles.
New Myers could get 5 of his add-ons basekit imo.
That addon was neede into basekit but xeno got weaker for two main reasons even there were more buffs in that patch compare to nerfs, first reason is his tail got solid buff and is way easier to doge than nemesis whip and fov techs when you jump into xeno when he is about to use his tail is super effective, second reason xeno is weaker now than before on average is because he got takled about and became for short time solid topic for many content creators that revealed how to place his turrets which was something some survivors have no clue how to place them effectively (two near each other mean he is out of power no mather what he will do and placing one near strong loop or hill is now way more common which makes them bigger threat than before when most survivors place them just near tunnel exit).
Some i mentioned like wraith,doctor,bubba if you play these killers without certain addons then you will see huge difference in their use.
Some killers have only few addons for their main part of their power like nemesis (just two addons for his whip and all are just for zombies or vaccines which arent that good and usefull as whip in 80% cases), demogorgan (simular to nemesis, he has only two addons for his main part of his power which is shread and rest is just for his underpowered portals which like half of these addons are trash only the iridescent one which gives you aura read when you use portals is goo even it has been nerfed).
Other killers have like few addons that are good to use like hag, artist.
The mayers is capitol by itself he is better than the old one was without tombstone ofcourse but his evil incarnate mode has more restrictions than onis blood furry which makes no sence for low b-tier killer (limited turnrate for slaughtering strike, 40 meters terror radius, 6 seconds cooldown when you use your strike, big slowdown when you charge strike and when you start evil incarnate mode even the fact he has no mobility or dash power like oni has), his tier one is 105% speed so you need addon to make it playable to other maps unlike indoor maps, his pursuer mode (tier 2) has bigger terror radius even all it got is just brutal strenght basekit and 20% bigger lunge plus 20% recovery when stuned (these are very small buffs exept that brutal which is solid but doesnt justify that 8 meters bigger terror radius for me).
Ive been playing xeno since the changes and he doesnt feel weaker.
double turrets are generally useless unless you're already losing the game badly. CCs yapping about "correct turret usage" did not change anything in my games. Just because more people know how to use them right does not change the fact I know how to play around them and minimize the impact - zone people to edgemap, cut them off and deal with turrets in the downtime/before I commit to a chase.
Worst case scenario you can always just tank the setup and reset your power in 10 seconds while getting a reposition. It's not a big deal unless, as I mentioned, you're already losing the game.
Turrets on hills are rare because hills arent common and even less common with a tunnel nearby. Getting that setup w/o good RNG is a massive time sink that benefits me way more than it benefits them.
0.1 wind up increase took time to get used to, but it's generally a nonissue and it overall accomplishes the opposite - gives more time to react to survivor dodging the hit and secure it. the only times it's a problem is when you need to get a hit in a very tight timing, f/e in predropped shack after vaulting the window when you cannot prefire, but even now it's doable with the addon / survivor ######### up the checkspot.
cooldown decrease was a massive buff that nerfed correct turret usage by ~20% of the distance value and it also gave xeno slightly better 2 tapping potential.
overall xenomorph just got sidegraded at worst and still is a strong low A tier if you have the skills.
try cereal rations, really nice addon to help with map awareness & turret placements.
brown egg is nice too, however I personally prefer not to get burnt out in the first place.
before the patch my go-to combo have either been the sloppy butcher addons or vaulting speed addon, with occasional use of footsteps range.
rn I dont think that changed much, maybe im using vaulting speed & range the most over sloppy addons cuz they're just too powercrept with vigil meta.
Pinhead has one big issue and thats that his chains spawn into objects (or very close) and break instantly which makes him dependent on these addons, thats what I hate hitting good chain hit but 2 out of 3 break second after I hit that which gives me more slowdown compare if I just chased normaly without using my power.
He is easier to outplay than nemesis because he can be doged or juked more easily than nemesis (you can drag his hitbox but its way less powerfull than nemesis drag), turrets are still strong if you place two close to each other on strong loops and chained loops which forces xeno to destroy them and go to tunnel to get power back if he doesnt want to play as super tall m1 killer. Turrets on hills are rare but they happen way more than before his patch came up (because everyone and more specific content creators told how to place turrets which was very rare to get before because he was in top 5 least played killers in the game), the second floors with holes work same as hills for some reason its even more rare than hill turrets but same outcome.
Loosing with xeno isnt nothing hard becasue he has strong antiloop with quite effective counterplay (like old emp which force killer to get his power back and loose time and preasure only difference is turrets cant be used so effectively in chase by chased or other survivors so easily as old emps), his mobility isnt bad but not great either and his tracking is great but for me he is more b-tier killer now than a-tier because he has too many flaws to be a-tier killer compare to killer who is simular like nemesis, he is same like springtrap I would say.
that's just wrong, you need to do better with this killer.
xenomorph has insanely oppressive and consistent chase power if you know the hit timings to prefire. if you knew how utilize it properly and understand how to deal with turrets, you would not be making these claims.
If survivors use brain and make good turret placements in good places with strong perks and great gen effiency then xeno is toasted, he has great antiloop (chase power) but at the cost of very strong counterplay (turrets) which can slow him down or get him out of his power and hinder him enough for survivors to get even or upper hand.
If xenomorph uses brain and makes good plays to zone survivors from reaching said turrets and doesnt miss the tail, then there are no problems.