What is the point of giving killer pallet vaults if they can all be simply ignored?
This is something that's been bugging me for a while, to my awareness every single killer pallet vault(or ability that allows them to go over one) can simply be ignored by just running back into them and vaulting back.
This works on Legion(you can vault back when they fatigue for some reason), Wesker(hes supposed to automatically attack to stop this from happening but it has never worked), Vecna's fly spell(same as Legion), Chucky(even if he insta lets go you can clip into him and vault back) and since this patch seemingly also on Ghoul.
Is there anything I am missing here? Is there something you can do on the killer side to prevent this or are vault abilities just like not good? If so why even add them to begin with?
Comments
No killers should vault the pallet and have a free hit for it.
That's why chucky's scamper was destroyed to the ground. Kaneki's kidnap tech is still too strong.
In my experience Wesker does hit survivors if they are to close to them after he vaults a pallet. Same with Ghoul.
Vecna's is a bit troublesome because he seemingly doesn't have a hitbox anymore when he cancel's his fly ability. If he had an hitbox simply on cancelation of his fly, his ability to vault would also be somewhat decent. I wish they changed that ability to have a hitbox at the end.
Where did I say they should get a free hit? Making the vaults do nothing by allowing a vault back which the killer can not stop is basically the same thing but in reverse, now the killer doesn't have an answer and it makes the abilities go from niche to useless. IIRC Chucky's Scamper wasn't even that bonkers due to the vault itself but rather the fact that he could use Slice and Dice right after.
Even if you couldn't just vault back most of the vaults I mentioned except Ghoul in enrage would not even lead to anything close resembling a free hit, simply because all of these killers suffer a fairly long fatigue upon vaulting or canceling power in Legions case. I don't know what kidnap tech is.
I never saw the Wesker one ingame b4 I think, I consistently just have Survivors run through me I feel. For Ghoul I would say until this current patch it worked too well and you would auto-hit people that weren't even close, however since this patch I've seen Survivors who managed to phase through me and simply vault back before I could attack.
Agreed on Vecna.
It's very difficult to do unless you have key/map/clayvorance to lose hitbox.
I don't think difficulty is an excuse for something. Something that may seem difficult will eventually be figured out and be done fairly consistently.
Not really, wesker is around for a while and it's very rare to see.
I also don't see it as an issue. I am defender of many exploits on both sides as long it's not easy / broken.
Window tech (which is basically same as this) is around for a while, it's not easy and it has counterplay, you are not without chance to hit that survivor, but it's kinda 50/50 if they do it, or just mess with your FOV.
It's definetly easiest against Legion, because he won't injure you by default if you are next to him and vaults further away compare to other killers.
I personally don't understand, why Kaneki even can vault pallets and he has it even stronger than any other killer…
Well, you kinda said it yourself, window tech has counterplay its more akin to a niche 50/50 a survivor can attempt. Running into a killer post pallet vault and just vaulting back without them being able to do anything about it just makes the that aspect of their kit useless.
Most of the pallet vaults would be fairly unimpressive even without this being a thing. Kaneki is actually an exception to this, though in theory he needs to hit the survivor with his power to get his super fast vault which I assume is meant to be the balance factor, regardless I don't want this to derail into a Kaneki balance discussion. I only brought him up because he seemingly also started being affected by this.
At the end of the day I just don't like when an aspect of a kit feels useless.
I can test it to be sure, but I think even if survivors vault back, if you do 180 and swing asap you will connect.
Which would make it 50/50.
Thing is pallet vault in killer's kit should never work 100%, that's just busted. So if survivor reacts to it fast enough and manage to vault back, I think it's fine.
Basically you would use vault only if survivor wants to hold W away and you don't want to wait breaking it and might catch them on god pallets.
I never managed to hit them even when instantly turning and spamming m1. since they phase through you while you're still in fatigue from the vault. If you can actually somehow hit them then I guess I just had a skill issue, which; fair enough.
The thing is that they wouldn't work 100%. The problem with using it to catch w-keying on god pallets is that unless they giga pre-run I feel they still have quite some time to run back and vault.
I am going to use Wesker's vault as an example since it's supposed to auto-hit you if you run into him: Would it really be too strong if that actually worked and you couldn't vault back? I feel like it would still be a niche option.
I will test it today and let you know how it went.
Wesker's wouldn't be that busted, because it's way slower than Kaneki's. Wesker pull his power slower, dash slower and vault slower… So his vault is really just very safe pallets and even then need to be often part of mind game. I am fine with that, when it's part of mind game and not something you always use as a killer.
If it's easy to do and regularly get hits, then that's old Chucky situation again at that point.
I agree that they shouldn't be reliable options, just niche chase tools that can be used in certain tiles. I basically just don't want them to be useless if you know how to vault back into them.
Thanks in advance for testing, curious to see if I was just doing something wrong.
Ok, so Wesker won't manage to hit on either window/pallet, but in like 60% of our attempts survivors got pushed to side and injured/downed, even with key it wasn't really something reliable, so kinda gamble to get out of bad situation...
Kaneki also can't and he didn't seem to injure/down survivors even next to him, so vaulting pallet back was not that hard, window is more difficult.
Issue with Kaneki, if he pulls on you while you are standing directly next to pallet (you just dropped it), this can't be done, because if you don't run away far enough it will down you anywhere around him (I will make post on it soon).
I see, so its a bit more iffy than I thought but it does shut down the vault entirely if pulled off. I am not sure how I feel about that even if it's somewhat unreliable as you said, I am probably still against it being a thing since there is no interaction for the killer when it comes to this, if the survivor pulls it off it essentially just makes the vault not do anything.
Thanks for taking the time to test this, I'll look out for your post on the Kaneki stuff.
Here is the post: