Legion rant from a Legion main of 4 years
The thing with M1 killers is that even if you're incredibly good at your M1 fundamentals (red light mechanics, making proper predictions, etc.) you're at the mercy of the survivor's resources. You have to break more pallets and walls than you otherwise would if you were playing killers with anti-loop, so you lose time AND kill pressure. It's just *inherently* a weaker kit design.
I don't think M1 killers are unfixable. I think loops are really bad for M1 killers, but if you make loops weaker (less pallets, smaller area, etc.) then you also buff stronger killers and anti-loop killers that don't need it. Best solution is direct kit buffs.
Personally, I actually *like* that Legion becomes a pure M1 killer after using his power. He's unique in that regard and it's honestly a pretty fair trade-off for being able to get essentially a free injured state on the person you're chasing. The problem is that there's very little skill expression in the chase itself since you're at the mercy of pallets and loops. Look at Trickster - he's widely regarded as being ######### despite his insane 1v1 power and powerful anti-loop via his ranged attacks. (Trickster IS weak because DBD is a 1v4 not a 1v1, but that's tangential) So Legion is weaker than even *that.* The problem with Legion is that it doesn't matter how good you are at Legion because skill doesn't invalidate pallets or the length of loops that you need to walk around to land hits. His skill cap is too low, which is a symptom of M1 killers in general and the reason why **almost every single killer released after Twins except Wesker have anti-loop.** If you don't believe me, go look. BHVR CLEARLY KNOWS that M1 is weak.
So I'd rather take direct kit buffs that don't change or alter Legion's identity. He's already far less toxic than he used to be with his most recent rework a few years ago. He doesn't need another rework or any large-scale changes, he just needs a kit refresh. He's outdated. He doesn't need to stun himself for 3 seconds. Lowering it to 2.5 would already make him more lethal in certain areas and make pallet vaulting more viable in a chase rather than just to get from point A to point B during a frenzy chain. He blinds himself way too much compared to Blight. There's no reason for him to not be able to see blood or scratch marks during Frenzy. He just has a lot of weird inhibitors in his kit that don't need to be there. Hell, maybe he deserves to be the first 120% killer - just pure M1 buff with more movespeed so he can mindgame more efficiently. He's just outdated and they need to touch him up.
I've been a Legion main for 4 years so I have very strong feelings about this. He's a relic of the past at this point.
The good news is that all he actually needs are just numbers changes. (At least in my opinion because I like that he's a pure M1 killer.) Nothing large scale or dev-intensive.
The bad news is that BHVR is unlikely to do anything anyway.
Comments
I'd like some buffs to them.
Your changes sound fine, but I'd also like an add-on pass for them.
In my opinion, it should be possible to see scratches/blood, lowering stun to 2.25s (blight without addons has 2.5s and does not have screen dimming and can sees scratches/blood), increase base frenzy speed to 5.6-5.8, increase the duration of the ability to 12 seconds, but shorten the mending time to 8 seconds, in which case the legion will be able to use their ability more often as an anti-loop/mobility and survivors they won’t put so much effort into mending
Legion is fine imo, they are a noob stomper much like Dr is too.
The problem with Legion is they are extremely obnoxious to verse and buffing them even further is just going to make them even more frequently played than they already are. Not every killer has to be super strong and thankfully I cannot see BHVR touching Legion anytime soon.
Agreed with all of this. The long mend timer is to cause more slowdown to make up for the fact that Legion has a non-lethal power. I think lowering the mending time to 8 seconds instead of 12 is good enough compensation for lowering the stun to 2.5 and making his base speed 120%.
He's a pure M1 killer, moving slightly faster just makes his mindgames more efficient. He still won't catch you at certain loops as fast as Trickster or Wesker could. I think 120% is fine imo, especially since the higher lethality means we can lower the time to mend. This makes Legion way more fun for both sides, because Survivors don't like mending and Legion is actually compelled to chase someone instead of pinball.
Many killers trample newbies, even an M1 killer will trample newbies simply because they don’t repair generators,The problem is that at middle levels legion already becomes extremely weak, and against swf or high levels, it will not even be able to take advantage of inflicting several wounds, Why do we have a blight with lethality ability, more speed and less penalty for missing, but can't have a viable legion?
Because not every killer has to be S tier and I truly believe the game needs to move away from that.
The devs seem to want to make every perk S tier too and it is creating a whole lot of unintended and obnoxious metas. The same as perks, not every killer or perk needs or should be meta.
There is a huge difference between "Make an S tier killer" and give the legion the ability to play at mid-high levels, No one is saying to make it better or at the level of blight, we just want it not to be useless
Legion isn't useless though, they are just not comp level strong which is the same with all killers below B tier
M1 and M2 killers are balanced on the map reworks.
Everyone should remember what the old maps looked like, where almost everything was smooth vertical walls at 90 degree angles, and many of the loops were low enough that Huntress could easily throw hatchets over them. There were also so few line of sight blockers, that Huntress was way stronger. And there were so few line of sight blockers, that Nurse could easily just blink to a line of sight blocker and see where the survivor is going.
Maps are completely different now. We now have so many line of sight blockers that Huntress spends way more time just slowly walking in chases, because the survivors aren't within line of sight long enough to throw a hatchet. And loops now have anti-Blight and anti-Wesker garbage thrown in, so the survivor can navigate those loops faster than the killers could navigate them with their M2 power.
Legion is balanced because they only need one hit, because the frenzy hit is a "free hit". They don't even need to worry about OTR or Dead Hard, because they can just frenzy hit a survivor even if they are injured.
I don't think you understand what "meta" actually means. If all killers are equally strong, then they'll be picked entirely based on what the individual personally prefers. Are you in high MMR? Do you understand why Nurse and Blight are picked 90% of the time in those ultra-high brackets? How many of those people actually just want to play Nurse or Blight or feel forced to because of how weak most other killers are at that level?
I have been playing since Jan 2019 with nearly 6k hours, so it isn't like I don't know the game.
I know exactly what meta is and trying to make all killers equally strong is a bad idea, some will be stronger by the nature of their inherent base power - which is why Nurse and Blight sit at top (surprised this needs to be said tbh).
Not everything needs to be meta, the same is true for perks, addons and killers and trying to make everything meta/S tier breaks the game.