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Nerf Pyramid Head hard tunneling/proxy camping potential and buff add-ons

Adrien Adrien
in Feedback and Suggestions

I'm a PH enjoyer, he is one of my favourite killer like Bubba, but I play mostly survivor.

Hard tunnelling Pyramid Head is basically old facecamp Bubba in terms of skill, game sense and game enjoyment.

It's very easy to destroy a survivor, especially with one of the strongest 1 v 1 anti loop in the game. At least Bubba had a mediocre chase potential. Same can be said with just sitting around 12 meter of the cage to use punished of the damned during uncage animation.

Also PH add-ons are still too weak despite one nice buff (crimson ceremony book) and maybe needs a QoL improvement.

NERF

Cages of Atonement:

  • IF RELEVANT : change the caged survivor spawn location to make it less obvious (very hard to understand the figure of this mechanic, seems like a 90 degress circle with a minimum distance from the killer).
  • Relocation Trigger radius decreased to 16 meters (was 10).
  • Relocation Trigger timer decreased to 2 seconds (was 3.5).
  • A survivor caged for the first time will give no sound/location cue (explosion) on the rescue animation.

BUFF

Note : PH synergizes well with stealth and aura reading stuffs.

Rites of Judgement : moderately increases the turn rate while holding the power to improve navigation around loops/acute angles.

Add-ons :

Iridescent rarity :

  • Obsidian goblet : grants the undetectable status effect while using Rites of judgement and standing on trails, lingering effect of 5 seconds (was while standing on trail of torment only without lingering effect).
  • Iridescent seal of metatron : sending a survivor to a cage will reveal the aura of survivors in a 4 meter radius around generators for 6 seconds (was tormented survs).

Purple rarity :

  • Scarlet egg : reveals the aura of survivor for 5 seconds when they get tormented (was a killer instinct increase).
  • Lost memories book : oblivious status effect for 45 seconds when getting tormented (was 15 secs).
  • Rust-coloured Egg : inflicts the broken status effect for 30 seconds when getting tormented (was 60 secs of blindness).

Green rarity :

  • Valtiel sect photograph : reduces the recovery time by -8 seconds (was -4). Weak effect anyway (PH doesn't need full bar refilled to use his power).
  • Misty day, remains of judgment : reaveals the aura of survivor for 3 seconds (was killer instinct).
  • Mannequin foot : increases the duration of Torment Trails in the environment by 30 seconds (was 20).

Yellow rarity :

  • Leopard-print fabric : increases killer instinct by 2 seconds (was 0.5 seconds).
  • Forgotten videotape : reduces the recovery time by 6 seconds (was 3).
  • Cinderella music box : increases the trail of torment in environnement by 20 secs (was 15).

Brown rarity :

  • Dead Butterfly : reduces recovery time by 4 seconds (was 2).

________________________________________________________________________

End of suggestions.

Let me know your opinions.

Thanks for reading.

Comments

  • Rulebreaker Rulebreaker

    @Adrien said:

    I'm a PH enjoyer, he is one of my favourite killer like Bubba, but I play mostly survivor.

    Hard tunnelling Pyramid Head is basically old facecamp Bubba in terms of skill, game sense and game enjoyment.

    It's very easy to destroy a survivor, especially with one of the strongest 1 v 1 anti loop in the game. At least Bubba had a mediocre chase potential. Same can be said with just sitting around 12 meter of the cage to use punished of the damned during uncage animation.

    Also PH add-ons are still too weak despite one nice buff (crimson ceremony book) and maybe needs a QoL improvement.

    NERF

    Cages of Atonement:

    • IF RELEVANT : change the caged survivor spawn location to make it less obvious (very hard to understand the figure of this mechanic, seems like a 90 degress circle with a minimum distance from the killer).
    • Relocation Trigger radius decreased to 16 meters (was 10).
    • Relocation Trigger timer decreased to 2 seconds (was 3.5).
    • A survivor caged for the first time will give no sound/location cue (explosion) on the rescue animation.

    BUFF

    Note : PH synergizes well with stealth and aura reading stuffs.

    Rites of Judgement : moderately increases the turn rate while holding the power to improve navigation around loops/acute angles.

    Add-ons :

    Iridescent rarity :

    • Obsidian goblet : grants the undetectable status effect while using Rites of judgement and standing on trails, lingering effect of 5 seconds (was while standing on trail of torment only without lingering effect).
    • Iridescent seal of metatron : sending a survivor to a cage will reveal the aura of survivors in a 4 meter radius around generators for 6 seconds (was tormented survs).

    Purple rarity :

    • Scarlet egg : reveals the aura of survivor for 5 seconds when they get tormented (was a killer instinct increase).
    • Lost memories book : oblivious status effect for 45 seconds when getting tormented (was 15 secs).
    • Rust-coloured Egg : inflicts the broken status effect for 30 seconds when getting tormented (was 60 secs of blindness).

    Green rarity :

    • Valtiel sect photograph : reduces the recovery time by -8 seconds (was -4). Weak effect anyway (PH doesn't need full bar refilled to use his power).
    • Misty day, remains of judgment : reaveals the aura of survivor for 3 seconds (was killer instinct).
    • Mannequin foot : increases the duration of Torment Trails in the environment by 30 seconds (was 20).

    Yellow rarity :

    • Leopard-print fabric : increases killer instinct by 2 seconds (was 0.5 seconds).
    • Forgotten videotape : reduces the recovery time by 6 seconds (was 3).
    • Cinderella music box : increases the trail of torment in environnement by 20 secs (was 15).

    Brown rarity :

    • Dead Butterfly : reduces recovery time by 4 seconds (was 2).

    ________________________________________________________________________

    End of suggestions.

    Let me know your opinions.

    Thanks for reading.

    Cages:

    • We don't know if they can do that without making it completely random. We're ok with that but just saying that's kinda what would need to happen. The mechanic is that the cage generally goes in a area furthest from the killer Ex: you cage someone in bottom right corner, they're now somewhere around top left. It's not always like that but a majority of the time it is.
    • Probably a good idea
    • We'd argue 3 seconds but worth testing.
    • This one we kinda have a problem with. While we don't like tunneling, the info of where 2 survivors are guaranteed is valued enough for us to say no to this.

    Buff: no comment as we've never had a problem with it

    Add ons: We're only going to comment on the ones we have some kind of issues with as most are either ok or worth testing to see what happens.

    • Scarlett egg: We are assuming this (aura reading) replaces the natural killer instinct that comes basekit. We would rather have the killer instinct as that's not countered by anything. A different effect for the add on would be fine but we aren't a fan of removing the killer instinct.
    • Rust-colured egg: The current wording you have would injure healthy survivors who get tormented. If that's the purpose we disagree with this. We'd rather have: "Whenever a tormented survivor is injured they are infected with the broken status for 30 seconds". Heck could up the time too.
    • Misty day: Same as Scarlett egg.

    Overall we like, but there's 2 glaring problems we don't.

  • Rokku_Rorru Rokku_Rorru

    I feel this is a problem with a lot of killers who have bad 4v1, they resort to tunneling etc instead to make up for their lack of presence. It's a wider issue that needs looked into while making tunneling a worse option.

  • Adrien Adrien

    @Rulebreaker said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/426576/nerf-pyramid-head-hard-tunneling-proxy-camping-potential-and-buff-add-ons

    Cages:

    • We don't know if they can do that without making it completely random. We're ok with that but just saying that's kinda what would need to happen. The mechanic is that the cage generally goes in a area furthest from the killer Ex: you cage someone in bottom right corner, they're now somewhere around top left. It's not always like that but a majority of the time it is.
    • Probably a good idea
    • We'd argue 3 seconds but worth testing.
    • This one we kinda have a problem with. While we don't like tunneling, the info of where 2 survivors are guaranteed is valued enough for us to say no to this.

    Buff: no comment as we've never had a problem with it

    Add ons: We're only going to comment on the ones we have some kind of issues with as most are either ok or worth testing to see what happens.

    • Scarlett egg: We are assuming this (aura reading) replaces the natural killer instinct that comes basekit. We would rather have the killer instinct as that's not countered by anything. A different effect for the add on would be fine but we aren't a fan of removing the killer instinct.
    • Rust-colured egg: The current wording you have would injure healthy survivors who get tormented. If that's the purpose we disagree with this. We'd rather have: "Whenever a tormented survivor is injured they are infected with the broken status for 30 seconds". Heck could up the time too.
    • Misty day: Same as Scarlett egg.

    Overall we like, but there's 2 glaring problems we don't.

    • Scarlett-Egg : Killer instinct basekit still applies.
    • Rusty-Egg : I meant injured survivors only become broken.
    • For the info, you have add-ons, the aim is to nerf hard tunneling, any other suggestion for this matter ?
    • Turn rate increase while holding M2 is a request I've seen from time to time, but it's not a popular opinion indeed.
  • Adrien Adrien

    @Rokku_Rorru said:

    I feel this is a problem with a lot of killers who have bad 4v1, they resort to tunneling etc instead to make up for their lack of presence. It's a wider issue that needs looked into while making tunneling a worse option.

    I see, but Chucky rarely uses S&D for mobility and is still considered strong. I think if the 1 v 1 is strong enough, you can chase chases easily. Also maps tend to get smaller. I don't think it's necessary to hard tunnel, only maybe against the hardest 4 player SWF.

  • Adrien Adrien

    @Booper36 said:

    I'm unfortunately too lazy to read the entirety of the post buuuuuut.

    They absolutely need to rid of the 'hook perks aren't activated by cages' aspect of his power. The whole point (I think) of cages is that it saves times (like during the anniversary or with the 2v8). Tunneling is so prevalent now that having a killer that can completely bypass any punishment or completely render survivors only way of extending their survival while being tunneled is beyond unfair and just feels terrible to play against, maybe in a 4-3 man swf it doesn't matter, but survivors will uncage you constantly when the killer is too close or when they should know the killer is tunneling (when they should wait as long as possible before uncaging/unhooking) and now you get instadowned and back to the hook you go.

    I am up for maybe keeping this aspect if phead players feel it's an important aspect of his power, but then they need to at least add basekit endurance/haste and remove any loud noise notification for the killer when uncaged to help combat the tunneling, maybe after x seconds or something the uncager can have their aura revealed for x seconds so that it isn't a completely safe unhook/uncage for that survivor but giving the caged person a chance. idk

    I can't really speak on anything else.

    You talked about the main issue for survivors. Yeah why not a bit of info basekit to compensate the cage nerf.

    Cage is not just time saving, it also counters : flashy/pallet saves, sabotage, disables dead hard, disables DS and OTR that could be used agggressively. That's why I wanted to make the tunneling/proxy camping just much harder with all the benefits listed above.

    But I can get why you would activate "unhooking perks".

  • Rulebreaker Rulebreaker

    @Adrien said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796307#Comment_3796307

    • Scarlett-Egg : Killer instinct basekit still applies.
    • Rusty-Egg : I meant injured survivors only become broken.
    • For the info, you have add-ons, the aim is to nerf hard tunneling, any other suggestion for this matter ?
    • Turn rate increase while holding M2 is a request I've seen from time to time, but it's not a popular opinion indeed.
    • Seems kinda weird but ok
    • Then we recommend rewording that one~
    • That's not the info we're talking about? When a survivor gets unhooked that ping tells us as a killer "hey two over here probably doing something you don't want them to do". We don't know any add ons that give info like that.

    As to that problem, aside from being able to remove tunneling completely, the best we can think of off the top of our head that we're not going to yip at (for PyramidHead) would be to make cages completely random with an increased anti camp distance. There's some flaws but the killer wouldn't be able to b line for the cage the second they do. This also doesn't stop the type of tunneling we usually see from ph, which is tormented survivors are hooked, then tunnelled to cage, loosing 2 hook states with little survivors can do even with a anti tunnel build. To solve that maybe make tormented go away on hook, but we'd be kinda sad on that (even though we'd admit it might be necessary).... People are the reason we can't have nice things...

  • LapisInfernalis LapisInfernalis

    @Adrien said:

    I'm a PH enjoyer, he is one of my favourite killer like Bubba, but I play mostly survivor.

    Hard tunnelling Pyramid Head is basically old facecamp Bubba in terms of skill, game sense and game enjoyment.

    It's very easy to destroy a survivor, especially with one of the strongest 1 v 1 anti loop in the game. At least Bubba had a mediocre chase potential. Same can be said with just sitting around 12 meter of the cage to use punished of the damned during uncage animation.

    Also PH add-ons are still too weak despite one nice buff (crimson ceremony book) and maybe needs a QoL improvement.

    NERF

    Cages of Atonement:

    • IF RELEVANT : change the caged survivor spawn location to make it less obvious (very hard to understand the figure of this mechanic, seems like a 90 degress circle with a minimum distance from the killer).
    • Relocation Trigger radius decreased to 16 meters (was 10).
    • Relocation Trigger timer decreased to 2 seconds (was 3.5).
    • A survivor caged for the first time will give no sound/location cue (explosion) on the rescue animation.

    BUFF

    Note : PH synergizes well with stealth and aura reading stuffs.

    Rites of Judgement : moderately increases the turn rate while holding the power to improve navigation around loops/acute angles.

    Add-ons :

    Iridescent rarity :

    • Obsidian goblet : grants the undetectable status effect while using Rites of judgement and standing on trails, lingering effect of 5 seconds (was while standing on trail of torment only without lingering effect).
    • Iridescent seal of metatron : sending a survivor to a cage will reveal the aura of survivors in a 4 meter radius around generators for 6 seconds (was tormented survs).

    Purple rarity :

    • Scarlet egg : reveals the aura of survivor for 5 seconds when they get tormented (was a killer instinct increase).
    • Lost memories book : oblivious status effect for 45 seconds when getting tormented (was 15 secs).
    • Rust-coloured Egg : inflicts the broken status effect for 30 seconds when getting tormented (was 60 secs of blindness).

    Green rarity :

    • Valtiel sect photograph : reduces the recovery time by -8 seconds (was -4). Weak effect anyway (PH doesn't need full bar refilled to use his power).
    • Misty day, remains of judgment : reaveals the aura of survivor for 3 seconds (was killer instinct).
    • Mannequin foot : increases the duration of Torment Trails in the environment by 30 seconds (was 20).

    Yellow rarity :

    • Leopard-print fabric : increases killer instinct by 2 seconds (was 0.5 seconds).
    • Forgotten videotape : reduces the recovery time by 6 seconds (was 3).
    • Cinderella music box : increases the trail of torment in environnement by 20 secs (was 15).

    Brown rarity :

    • Dead Butterfly : reduces recovery time by 4 seconds (was 2).

    ________________________________________________________________________

    End of suggestions.

    Let me know your opinions.

    Thanks for reading.

    As a Wesker main: Who is the better tunneler? Wesker (pre infection nerf) or PH now?

    I think it's PH, because it's so easy in comparison to Wesker tunnel.

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