Skip to content

Wesker = Jack of all trades?

Alen_Starkly Alen_Starkly
in Feedback and Suggestions

Remember when devs nerfed Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance, because it was a "jack of all trades"? Wesker is one too, shouldn't he receive the same treatment?

Wesker's power:

  • great mobility
  • good antiloop
  • side objective for survivors (spraying)
  • killer instinct notifies you of a survivor's whereabouts, so you can easily tunnel them, especially if they're injured
  • full infections hinders you, including mid-chase, so even if you're really good in chase, the hindered status effect loses you the chase prematurely
  • if he hits 2 survivors close to each other (including right after unhooking), wesker's attack injures (or puts in deep wound) both of the people

Considering all of this, it's no wonder he is so popular. Doesn't this guarantee a nerf? I mean, if you give a killer everything, then yeah, why would people want to play other killers who have less abilities? What are your thoughts?

Comments

  • Emeal Emeal

    This is quite the reach, like is Wesker overperforming? on what basis other than him being a good Killer, are you proposing to nerf him?

  • Alen_Starkly Alen_Starkly

    @Emeal said:

    This is quite the reach, like is Wesker overperforming? on what basis other than him being a good Killer, are you proposing to nerf him?

    The devs have the history of nerfing the things that are too popular. 50% heal speed self-care was arguably a bad perk, and the devs nerfed it because it was too popular . They even wanted to nerf Hillbilly's engraving add-ons because they were too popular, not because they were overpeforming. So by that logic, yes, Wesker needs a nerf just based on his excessive popularity. But he also has too much to his power, like I mentioned.

  • Emeal Emeal

    @Alen_Starkly said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3488964#Comment_3488964

    The devs have the history of nerfing the things that are too popular. 50% heal speed self-care was arguably a bad perk, and the devs nerfed it because it was too popular . They even wanted to nerf Hillbilly's engraving add-ons because they were too popular, not because they were overpeforming. So by that logic, yes, Wesker needs a nerf just based on his excessive popularity. But he also has too much to his power, like I mentioned.

    I refuse to believe this until one of developers come in here, where they sit down and confirm that the only concern they had in those instances was the popularity and only that. Because without that, you have nothing than a faulty theory regarding bHVR and not a reason anyone should accept for nerfing Wesker.

  • RubberBrain RubberBrain

    @Alen_Starkly said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3488964#Comment_3488964

    The devs have the history of nerfing the things that are too popular. 50% heal speed self-care was arguably a bad perk, and the devs nerfed it because it was too popular . They even wanted to nerf Hillbilly's engraving add-ons because they were too popular, not because they were overpeforming. So by that logic, yes, Wesker needs a nerf just based on his excessive popularity. But he also has too much to his power, like I mentioned.

    You shouldn’t encourage a bad thing when he’s already in a fine spot

  • nars nars

    The difference between wesker and original PR is that wesker isnt broken.

  • nars nars

    Except that everything his power does can get completely negate by the survivor. His mobility only provides about a 3 second time save per use of both charges. His dashes require perfect precision and prediction just to hit, so its only reasonable it provides some extra benefit in the slowdown. You can also easily avoid full infection by just cleansing. The hinder only exists to force you to deal with cleansing. There are loops where his power is useless so they added a hinder so infection would always be a threat at max, and cleansing a must.

    besides everything his power does can be stopped by outplaying him, he needs to hit you.

  • GrimReaperJr1232 GrimReaperJr1232

    Few things

    1. His cross map mobility is mediocre. Someone has done comparisons on Midwich, it's 7 seconds vs 9 (because of his cooldowns slowing him after). It's a chase tool first and foremost.

    2. Wesker being popular doesn't mean he needs a nerf. Legion, one of the weakest killers in the game, is also one of the most popular killers. Popularity =/= Strength. There is a lot more nuance than simple popularity.

  • Rogue11 Rogue11

    He's popular because he's the only fun killer to be released in the last year.

  • LapisInfernalis LapisInfernalis

    @Alen_Starkly said:

    Remember when devs nerfed Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance, because it was a "jack of all trades"? Wesker is one too, shouldn't he receive the same treatment?

    Wesker's power:

    • great mobility
    • good antiloop
    • side objective for survivors (spraying)
    • killer instinct notifies you of a survivor's whereabouts, so you can easily tunnel them, especially if they're injured
    • full infections hinders you, including mid-chase, so even if you're really good in chase, the hindered status effect loses you the chase prematurely
    • if he hits 2 survivors close to each other (including right after unhooking), wesker's attack injures (or puts in deep wound) both of the people

    Considering all of this, it's no wonder he is so popular. Doesn't this guarantee a nerf? I mean, if you give a killer everything, then yeah, why would people want to play other killers who have less abilities? What are your thoughts?

    Skullmerchant:

    - easy 3-gen porential

    - side quest for survivors (hacking drones)

    - pinpoint information

    - increased speed

    - stealth

    - power makes survivors exposed



    Do we need to look at Skullmerchant because she can do "too much"? No. Just her part with 3-genning sucks.

    So do we need to nerf Wesker? In short: No.

    In long:

    @LapisInfernalis said:

    Dear People of The Fog,

    there have been threads plopping up here that Wesker needs a nerf because he is played much and therefore must be OP, as this seems to be the reasoning for survivor perks getting nerfed. I am writing this to collect what complaints were mentioned and what I think of them to provide a more grounded view. I dare say I am pretty experienced with over 6k hrs. I might not be the best out there by far, but I have a good understanding of the game. Most of my hrs are from the Survivor side, but when I play killer I usually play Wesker. I do not belong to the Wesker Gods out there yet, but I know of all the funny stuff you can do with him and I am also able to perform all of them (although not all consistently yet).

    Now to the main reason I write this post.

    • "Wesker is played often, therefore he is OP and needs a nerf."

    Not all Killers, perks or addons are OP, just because they are used often. Best example: Engravings on Billy. Wesker is FUN to play as he has an interesting power with high skill-ceiling that is satisfying to use (throwing or smacking survivors against objects is cool) but still leaves Survivors with enough coulterplay so that the player comes out top who was better, which is good design. His base-kit is strong enough not to be addon reliant, and his addons are all quite balanced. None of them is per se OP.

    Also Wesker was the last Killer who had interesting gameplay to offer as Knight and Skullmerchant are the best at 3-genning, which is widely considered very boring. I can't tell much for the Singularity as I haven't really played that Killer since release. The gameplay just seems so clunky to me. And facing the Singularity is just nothing special. Therefore it is understandable that some players do not play those characters, but the last one who was actually proviging interesting gameplay. And that is Wesker.

    Variety in matches is nice but should be NEVER a reason to get it nerfed. Back in late 2018/early 2019 95% of your matches on red ranks was Nurse, Billy and Spirit with the occasional Huntress in there. The other 5% were either very skilled with that killer and very terrifying for that reason (best exaples: Trapper and Doc) or just doing a daily.

    The difference here is that both Spirit and Nurse were OP back then. Nurse had no cooldown, Omega Blink was a thing and she could have 5 blinks with little drawback. Spirit had no phase sound if you were in her TR, making chases against her extremly frustrating as you were basically tossing a coin every time if you would live or not. Her addons were on the same level as Blight's right now. Billy had one broken combo (Insta saw, or charge speed with engraving) but got gutted with the rework. Somehthing that I don't understand to this day. He was also a fun killer to play and to play against, strong but still balanced with high skill ceiling.

    Look at him now....

    Neither Wesker nor Blight are OP. Even Nurse is at a good spot right now I think. Basekit blight is completely fine. He just needs some addons getting looked at (Alc Ring, C33, Adre Vial and maybe speed).

    No need to repeat the Billy tragedy.

    • "All Weskers I face are just tunneling. It's so ez to tunnel with him and therefore he must be nerfed."

    Tunneling is not a specific problem with Wesker. In fact there are other killers who can easily tunnel via their basekit (Pyramid Head), just because they are strong (Nurse, Blight, Spirit, Huntress) or can ignore Endurance with their power (Deathslinger) or via add-ons (Pinhead, Pig). People just think Wesker players tunnel the most as he is one of the most seen killers in some MMR regions. Therefore the chances are higher for a player they meet to tunnel than if they face a PyH once in 30 matches. Then there is also the "definition" problem of tunneling. Some say "tunneling" for anything while some say "tunneling" if the killer stops what he's doing just to get you out of the match.

    Nonetheless there IS a way in which Wesker can tunnel well if he choses to. That often includes the usage of the Video Conference Device, which reduces the passive infection time by 30%. This causes unhooked survivors who have their infection set to 50/100 charges to get the infection debuff after just 40s (instead of 60s) which is not much in both cases. This is the ONLY part of his kit that might need some adjustment, although I would favour a global anti-tunneling mechanic over nerfing killers.

    This adjustment could be:

    1. Removing infection on hook. This is very problematic as it almost completely removes information and slowdown from his kit as you would rarly need to spray yourslf then in the first place. This would be similar to wake up from Freddy's Dream without having the automatic timer afterwards.
    2. Pausing the passive infection until you do a Conspicous Action. That is a double edged sword as Survivors could use it to bodyblock for others without getting punished for it.
    3. Setting the infection meter upon getting hooked to 1/100 charges. This way the timer is about 120s (or 80s with VCD) until it is full. Common anti tunnel perks are active for 60 or 80s after getting unhooked so I used this as a guideline. If Wesker tunnels you off the hook for 80/120s after getting unhooked, there will be 2 gens finished after this is over. This also makes it not so punishing if you get hit with a dash during the BT effect and increasing your infection like it would be with it being set to 50%.
    • "HIs hitbox is so bad"

    Hitboxes are just a rough approximation of your character. It is actually just a cylinder for killer and survivor. There are many videos out there on YT explaining this.

    • "He grabs you through windows and pallets"

    That was a bug that existed for the last 6 months and is fixed with the next mid-chapter. He was always only supposed to just injure and infect you when you are mid-vault.

    • "All his techs are exploits."

    Now I opened Pandora's Box.... but all techs are not exploits until the devs say otherwise. Blight Hug-Tech is considered a bug, but we still don't know if they decided it to be a feature or if they are still trying to fix it. They never said anything about Wesker's fun stuff so the Devs seem to be fine with it for now.

    BTW: You can still still dodge rebounds if you know where he will do it, and even Hug-Techs can be dodged. Most people just don't know the signs of Wesker doing this.

    Constructive thoughts are welcome.

    Stay safe in the Fog.

    None of your mentioned reasons justify a nerf.

    1. His mobility is mediocre at best as @GrimReaperJr1232 mentioned. Blight should be far better.

    2. A good antiloop is not a reason to nerf him. His dashes are fun. You need good precision to get value. He is the typical killer with low skill floor and high skill ceiling.

    His power is very balanced as you have tons of counterplay and the Player which is better will win the chase.

    3. Side objective: Plague, Pig, Nemy, Onryō, Freddy... Just to mention a few. Also with the recent change that you can carry a can with your item has made it a lot faster to spray. You spend less time than before. About the tunneling: just look at Pyramid Head.....

    You just don't complain about him because he is so rare and the chances that you get a tunneler is slim.

    Oh and btw... Just don't spray if Wesker is unoccupied and/or near you. That helps a LOT to not get tunneled.

    4. Full infection takes afaik 120s (80s with VCD). If he chases you still after that, then 3 gens are done and you should not be mad that the killer gets a bit help after that time. He basically lost the match with that chase anyway.

    Hindred is just there to force cleansing. Or would you cleanse if it was something like... Blindness? No. Most people don't care about most effects and therefore they would never cleanse. (we had that with Plague when she came out, it was horrible).

    5. The collateral damage hit is to reward pinpoint accuracy. DW was just added to make it more "clear".

  • NoOneKnowsNova NoOneKnowsNova

    A jack of all trades is a master of none.

    Wesker is fine.

Categories