Shattered hope basekit?
Hex vs Boon
Hex perks are (supposed to be but not always) super powerful killer perks with the downside that they can be taken away. A high risk high reward. Each Hex is 25% of a side's perk load out and once it's gone it's gone.
Why do boons get to be different? Unlimited heals for the whole team, the ability to pick yourself up indefinitely, team stealth that can cover multiple floors... Those are some abilities that are as strong if not stronger than some Hex perks. Plus they're only 1/16th of the team's perk load out.
So many situations where a killer has to go out of the way to snuff a boon, wasting time that's 4x more valuable than a survivors, only to have the boon right back up the moment you move away. True, boons need to be set up while hexs don't (minus pentimento). I think the tradeoff for that should be that the boons can be set up multiple times, but only once per totem.
Please make it so going out of the way to snuff a boon actually means something. Especially when it comes to out of the way locations like Badham basement (and others). If I take the time to eliminate it from a high value area it should be gone. It's fine if the survivors want to spend the time searching for a new totem and taking the time to reboon there instead... That time investment seems fair to me, but it doesn't seem right that eliminating a boon isn't permanent like eliminating a hex unless I dedicate 25% of my load out to shattered hope.
Comments
I think basekit Shattered Hope (without the aura reveal part of the perk) would be a nice start. Then the perk could show auras of survs inside the radius and give some debuff, like Hindered, Incapacitated or even Exposed for some few seconds. Boon would become some high risk/reward strat.
I was playing a match against a Doctor, everyone was spread out and injured, and then... a random boon CoH appears. The doctor instantly lost all his pressure, as everyone healed while one was being chased. What the killer could do in that situation? Snuff out the boon in the other side of the map instead of patrolling gens or chasing people?
CoH really needs a rework as its changes complety the game style of killers, and make killers like Twins and Hag unviable. Maybe it could be something like a Vigil with the ability to recover Exaustion while running while inside the boon radius. But giving infinite medkits to a team inside an area doesn't seem a good idea.
I tend to disagree. For one thing this would inadvertently nerf a few killer perks like No One Escapes Death. But for another, it unreasonably nerfs an entire series of survivor perks. Which on the surface might seem like a killer win, but I would argue the opposite. If the survivors are filling up their perk slots with boons then it also means they aren't running other arguably more annoying perks. Boons also take up survivor time blessing in the first place and snuffing out the totems is often a win in the killer vs survivor time management game. Killers generally aren't going to run to the other side of the map where gens are done to snuff out a totem but if survivors are wasting their time running to the other side of the map to heal at 50% speed then they losing a lot of gen progress. And if survivors bless a totem in an area where killers are active then the time spent blessing the totem is usually easily lost without the killer spending too much time searching for and snuffing it out. Now if your argument is that blessing totems should take an extra 10 seconds then I would tend to agree.
Becuse boons are not hexes.
Hexes dont require you to spend time looking for and blessing a totem. Hexes make much less noise than boons. Hexes affect the entire map. Even hexes whose effect has to be earned like devour, third seal, and huntress lullaby power up their effects by performing the main objective, chasing/hooking survivors, rather than spending time NOT performing the main objective like with boons.
And on top of all that. Killers are empowered to defend hexes and prevent them from being cleansed. Especially killers like demo with lifeguard whistle, hag with her traps, skull merchant with drones. Any killer can walk up to a hex and hit you off it. Survivors can do nothing of the sort.
The killer and survivor role are fundamentally different, even though both perks interact with totem, they cannot function the same because the abilities of the roles differ.
Boons get to be different because 1, they take time to set up, 2, they make a bunch of noise, and 3, are limited to a certain radius
Don't like boons? Run shattered hope. Don't want to run it? Well tough luck
Even as killer I don't have much problem and don't really care about them doing COH, plus I'm not even actively trying to win by hooking them
I don't know why this keeps getting suggested so much when that would make literally all other 3 obsolete
I also like how you tried to make it seem Exponential and shadow step is OP, lol while forgetting about dark theory, idk how anyone can make that seem OP it's pretty much a cosmetic haste effect
You're only mentioning COH here and you want to nerf all boons? Lol
Yeah I'm really not sure why the community keeps suggesting basekit Shattered Hope when it's the most god awful idea you can do to nerf COH because not only COH exists
It's at 75% speed, since the healing it provides stacks with the self heal
So not as much time as you'd think unless you're running mangled
if they were going to do this, they should make it an option. Either you can do the current fast snuff that leaves the Totem still alive or a slightly longer break action. Then shattered hope would make the break just as fast as the snuff and also do the aura read.
The thought process here is that perks like Hex: Plaything, Hex: NOED, Hex: Thrill of the Hunt, and whatever Knight's Hex is called exist that need dull totems to work.
I really really hate it when people compare boons to hexes. The only commonality is that they interact with totems to some degree. Every other related mechanic is completely different.
That being said killers should absolutely have the ability to destroy a booned totem or simply snuff it. Have it be a hold vs. Press interaction. If it makes pentimento too strong then have the entity consume destroyed totems.
Exactly, Survivors get the ability to bless the totem indefinitely, as Killer can literally defend their totems. If you make shattered hope basekit, Survivors would be stupid enough to bodyblock the totem or simply not bring boon at all, as all boon perks will be from mediocre weak to aboutusly useless. (Expect maybe for CoH, as it still had strong value when the boon is left alone)
I am more interested in CoH getting gutted or reworked, then making Shattered Hope basekit; as Boons is never the problem, it just CoH which is bringing Boon to a level of unhealthy gameplay that isn't fair doe the killer.
Didn't suggest they were OP, just stated that they are as strong as some killer hexes and stronger than some others. Yet they can be reused unlike said hexes. Just seems backwards when the weaker perk that takes up 25% of a load out can be permanently removed when a boon cannot. That and the time value of a solo player vs a squad is considered.
I think the issue with Boons is that they can be replaced and don’t have a limiter on them. If it worked like “If the Boon is snuffed you can’t reactivate it for 120 seconds” then it would be perfectly fine.
The only one as "strong" as a hex is COH
Shadow Step is limited in its range and has to be used near the killer to get value, and even then on an outdoor map it's still not very useful
Dark theory is basically a cosmetic haste effect
And Exponential is literally a counter to slugging. It literally is useless if you're not slugging lol
Personally, I like slugging as an alternative to hooks but it's so rare to see it I almost never have to take it into account and when I get suspicious that they're getting up so fast I just know to snuff it when i see it and down them again
Bruh.... One more time..... SOME of the boons are as strong or stronger than SOME of the hexes. You're dead wrong if you think I'm comparing dark theory to NOED.
Or are you going to tell me that a shadow step on any indoor map, or in the right places on Haddonfield, Garden of joy, the bedhams, EoC, or the main buildings of half the remaining maps (especially when they're up a set of stairs and away from your objectives) is weaker/gives less value than huntress lullaby, thrill of the hunt, 3rd seal, retribution..... and so on.
And while it isn't strong on solos, if you haven't versed a squad that's shown you the value of a sabo/flashlight/exponential build..... Well you're luckier than I. I'm not claiming it's OP, but it gives them a heck of a lot more value than new Ruin gives a killer, and yet they can have it up less than 30 seconds after it's snuffed while Ruin is one and done and the killer is now minus a quarter of his load out.
I understand the argument. Still doesn't change my point.
It's a no-brainer decision that Killers should have the basekit option to snuff or cleanse.
This change would force the Killer to make decisions on the fly (instead of pre-trial)...which would give the Killer more agency...which would create more compelling gameplay for the Killer.
Do you snuff to allow for Plaything, NOED, etc? Or, do you cleanse immediately based on a hard-to-reach location, etc?
As it stands currently, the Killer makes 1 decision, pre-trial, for how all boons will be addressed.
With the basekit capability, Killers would have to make multiple decisions, during the trial, to address boons.
Shattered Hope could be removed completely or reworked into something like a Killer version of Counterforce.
I see exponential or shadow step once every 100 games. Maybe even less. Do this blanket nerf and I am pretty sure the only case of boon usage will be ONLY to meme. Never again. Even CoH is in fact time inefficient if killer snuffs the totems and knows what he's doing. (Don't go math on me, but instead measure it in your games - in practical terms it takes anything between 21s to ages to heal with CoH - making even current, nerfed, god awful self care on average about as quick as CoH if you consider only self-heal time).
If "some" are stronger than "some" of the hexes, why do you want to nerf all boons?
You're arguing about the Exponential and shadowstep, yet haven't said a word about dark theory being OP, and still want to nerf it
Plus if they're doing a sabo Exponential build, they're not doing gens so eventually you will get them all before, and they're just metering around getting altruism points, like that guy said
I would much rather the effect of Boons be more impactful (more powerful), and have Shattered Hope as basekit, than the situation we have now with infinitely relighting CoH in a distant corner.
I've said many times, that I think Boons should be more difficult for killers to find, and less telegraphed (no thunder sound notification), so that survivors get more use out of them, before the killer destroys them. This would also put cleansing and blessing on the same page, as both will take 14s, disable the Hex, and destroy/consume the totem, meaning there is no conflict when it comes to other totem interactions such as Hex perks or things like Inner Healing.
But that ship has sailed, this is how Boons have been designed and I don't see them changing them at such a fundamental level any time soon.