Proposed Knight Buff for The Jailer.

I had an idea on how to buff The Jailer, as he is the absolute weakest Guard in chase, and is only good to lock down an area. For 90% of the time, this buff will be useless, so I see no reason to not add it.


When the Jailer gets a hit, it applies the Incapacitated status effect for 20-30 seconds (Devs could decide how long).


It makes sense, because the Incapacitated icon is a hand in Shackles, so if he hits you, The Jailer "cuffs" you, making you unable to help the team for a bit. All the Guards have a bonus. Carnifex breaks faster and has a long hunt, Assassin is faster at hunter and applies Deep Wounds, so why not let Jailer patrol longer and apply Incapacitated on hit?

Comments

  • @JimmyCasket said:

    I had an idea on how to buff The Jailer, as he is the absolute weakest Guard in chase, and is only good to lock down an area. For 90% of the time, this buff will be useless, so I see no reason to not add it.

    When the Jailer gets a hit, it applies the Incapacitated status effect for 20-30 seconds (Devs could decide how long).

    It makes sense, because the Incapacitated icon is a hand in Shackles, so if he hits you, The Jailer "cuffs" you, making you unable to help the team for a bit. All the Guards have a bonus. Carnifex breaks faster and has a long hunt, Assassin is faster at hunter and applies Deep Wounds, so why not let Jailer patrol longer and apply Incapacitated on hit?

    With the eruption controversy around. I doubt the devs will mess with incapacitated besides powers soon.

    Also you are just buffing the defend 3 gen strat of Knight. Thats already his strongest point.

    The killer is simply bad designed for not promoting interaction. The can't get better at him and survivors can't get better against him.

    You hold W or get hit, no amount of small quality of life improvements they give to him will fix that.

  • @BlueHorkew said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/362407/proposed-knight-buff-for-the-jailer

    With the eruption controversy around. I doubt the devs will mess with incapacitated besides powers soon.

    Also you are just buffing the defend 3 gen strat of Knight. Thats already his strongest point.

    The killer is simply bad designed for not promoting interaction. The can't get better at him and survivors can't get better against him.

    You hold W or get hit, no amount of small quality of life improvements they give to him will fix that.

    It's not a QoL improvement, it's a punishment for letting the worst guard get a hit on you. and 10 seconds is about the time it would take to get to a gen after the hit anyways. Just stops them from instantly healing or getting back on a gen. And it's very thematic with his role name. The reason Eruption is so controversial is because it's near impossible to counter, even with comms it's difficult to time, and the incapacitated lasts nearly half a minute. This small tweak to the weakest guard would go nearly unnoticed, since you VERY RARELY get hit by him anyways.

  • Isn't it the point of 3 different guards that they have different strengths? His is area lockdown, not chasing.

  • @Bwsted said:

    Isn't it the point of 3 different guards that they have different strengths? His is area lockdown, not chasing.

    Which is why you should be punished for letting him hit you. As you said, and I said previously, he's not good at chase, so this change would be unaffecting of most matches. So why not make it?

  • @JimmyCasket said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337259#Comment_3337259

    Which is why you should be punished for letting him hit you. As you said, and I said previously, he's not good at chase, so this change would be unaffecting of most matches. So why not make it?

    You're already punished if he hits you...

  • @JimmyCasket said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3327995#Comment_3327995

    It's not a QoL improvement, it's a punishment for letting the worst guard get a hit on you. and 10 seconds is about the time it would take to get to a gen after the hit anyways. Just stops them from instantly healing or getting back on a gen. And it's very thematic with his role name. The reason Eruption is so controversial is because it's near impossible to counter, even with comms it's difficult to time, and the incapacitated lasts nearly half a minute. This small tweak to the weakest guard would go nearly unnoticed, since you VERY RARELY get hit by him anyways.

    If you want a punishment for getting hit, the assassin already does that with mending.

    Also is it 10 secs or 20-30, i am sorry, but with eruption going on being in other 20 to 30 seconds of incapacitated sounds like more miserable time and continuing the issue of, this killer doesn't let you do stuff and interact.

    Also, it would be pointless, if you get hit by the jailer you are in chase, there is no way i believe someone would get hit by him in any other way. So sure give him that buff, nobody will get hit by him so who cares, thats not the jailer's strength.

    Also, technically each guard already has different strengths:

    Executioner breaks stuff faster and has the biggest chase time

    Assassin is the fastest in chase and puts you in deep wound

    Jailer is the watchdog for monitoring the pathways


  • @BlueHorkew said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337251#Comment_3337251

    If you want a punishment for getting hit, the assassin already does that with mending.

    Also is it 10 secs or 20-30, i am sorry, but with eruption going on being in other 20 to 30 seconds of incapacitated sounds like more miserable time and continuing the issue of, this killer doesn't let you do stuff and interact.

    Also, it would be pointless, if you get hit by the jailer you are in chase, there is no way i believe someone would get hit by him in any other way. So sure give him that buff, nobody will get hit by him so who cares, thats not the jailer's strength.

    Also, technically each guard already has different strengths:

    Executioner breaks stuff faster and has the biggest chase time

    Assassin is the fastest in chase and puts you in deep wound

    Jailer is the watchdog for monitoring the pathways

    "Jailer is the watchdog for monitoring" and incapacitates you if he hits you. His ONLY strong point is how long he patrols. He sucks in a chase. So, make him have a secondary use. Protection and Delay. It would make dropping him mid chase still useless, unless it stops the survivor from using items like a flashlight or med-kit with a syringe or styptic.

  • @JimmyCasket said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337493#Comment_3337493

    "Jailer is the watchdog for monitoring" and incapacitates you if he hits you. His ONLY strong point is how long he patrols. He sucks in a chase. So, make him have a secondary use. Protection and Delay. It would make dropping him mid chase still useless, unless it stops the survivor from using items like a flashlight or med-kit with a syringe or styptic.

    Ok, i am just saying that most players won't like that change.

    Killer players will just say that it's a useless buff, because it is, survivors won't get caught by the jailer. And doesn't fix any of his issues.

    And survivors will hate it because it's another mechanic where they need to stop playing the game for X amount of time.

    I don't see the gain in that change besides "lore" or "fantasy" maybe.

    That is all i am trying to say.

    Again, if that change were to be live tomorrow i wouldn't care, just think its a waste of resources that could be used to do other stuff.

  • @Defend said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/362407/proposed-knight-buff-for-the-jailer

    Personally i'm fine with how all the guards are right now. Each have their own strong suit that make them good:

    • Carnifex is centered around Endurance and Order, used to disrupt survivors for a prolonged duration and extremely good at destroying pallets mid-chase (if you know about the pallet tech)
    • Assassin is centered around Lethality, used to confirm hits or downs.
    • The Jailer is centered around Control, large detection range and patrol time to push survivors off of objectives.

    Not that Jailer is good at chases, but he is good at disruption. I usually use him as my wild card for almost every situation. Use mid-chase to get the survivor off of a strong loop or to get a survivor off a generator. Stop survivors from healing, etc etc.

    I usually use him mid-chase to confirm a hunt and then get a down due to it, but I also use his order action to cycle through to the Carnifex for more oppression in-chase (again, the pallet tech for The Knight is crazy good)

    https://imgur.com/a/gAVm6Nw

    You said it yourself, he's centered around control, what more control do you need than preventing them from doing stuff for 10 seconds. And as many have said, this would do practically nothing, but punish survs for getting hit by the weakest guard. There's no reason to not add this.

  • Yeah, because the Knight totally needs a buff...

  • @Defend said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339859#Comment_3339859

    Yeah, there's a fair amount of issues that make The Knight lack luster

    • Add-on dependency is extreme on The Knight, There's three addons that change the quality of your guards/power that are so good, you're significantly weaker if you don't (Map of the Realm, Dried Horsemeat, Call of Arms). More the first two than the third.
    • Clunky power, specifically in a loop. You are unable to use your power most times when dealing with a pallet. A little counter intuitive when your power can break pallets, but you can't break them at all up close.
    • Weak rare/very rare addons. Not that they're bad, but they're a little too niche or weak to be considered in their rarity (one rare addon just causes hemorrhage, another one causes blindness). Nothing's wrong with Knight's contract as well, it's just my opinion that it incentivizes a not-so-healthy playstyle.
    • There's also how guards work at windows and dropped pallets, the massive slowdown is so much that the guard will never hit a survivor as long as he vaults one or more window. If you ever played The Knight on Lery's, you know true pain.

    I also believe that there needs to be a second counter to his anti-loop. when you spam your guards in corners to get the hits. The counter is the standard but The Knight usually just waits near the standard, creating a guarantee hit. What that counter can be is probably a vulnerability to his guards if his patrol path is less than 10 meters (aka you're just dropping them down), and they're treated like nemesis zombies (can be pallet stunned and disappear).

    I totally agree with you on the addon front especially. His add-ons suck balls lol. I'm on board with your take. 🙂

  • @Defend said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339575#Comment_3339575

    He's good at control because of his increased detection radius, patrol speed and time. Sending him to a gen with a survivor basically confirms a hunt no matter what the survivor does, or in mid-loop or after a hit, with him its always a hunt. That's 12 seconds of delay with the total time, 16 with horse meat, not to mention the seconds that the survivor takes getting back to the generator. Adding a 10 second incapacitated on top of the time he already stalls wouldn't be the best idea. Especially with the current capability of 3-gen with The Knight. (Then again the standard time is only 5 seconds, but it still applies to the idea)

    If there had to be a buff for Jailer, I would rather focus of the hindrance status effect or information. Kinda for the same reason you have, the theme of the jailer is control, so what would be better than controlling or predicting the survivors movements.

    For Hindrance, it would be during the hunt duration. Being able to slowdown the survivor would help both The Jailer and The Knight be able to catch up to the survivor, being able to get the hit more. However I really like the idea of information more than anything.

    Either a type of aura reading that reveals the survivor position during the hunt duration, or killer instinct. I love being able to hit survivors by predicting their pathing because of the guards. However there's so many factors that makes it unviable to do so. I feel like this would be less oppressive than incapicated, but would help The Knight use The Jailer more for crazy plays.

    Good idea. Hinderance during a hunt. Same concept too, as it's a ball and chain.

  • Tbh, i’ve always thought jailer was the best guard because the detection range combined with the map of the realm add-on (increased detection range) makes him extremely difficult to avoid in chase, not to mention if you have someone dead early and you’re running COB or overcharge, jailer can camp gens for a while. It doesn’t really matter jailer doesn’t get a chasing benefit because he starts chases much easier and just in general, it’s still a second killer helping you, it’s still strong.


    really Assassin is usually the weakest but the deep wound makes up for assassin having the worst pressure.

  • Pocket legion chases faster and gives deep wound

    Chunky boi chases longer and breaks stuff faster

    Mr manacles patrols longer and wider, nothing else

    Give him a second effect

  • @leviivel said:

    Tbh, i’ve always thought jailer was the best guard because the detection range combined with the map of the realm add-on (increased detection range) makes him extremely difficult to avoid in chase, not to mention if you have someone dead early and you’re running COB or overcharge, jailer can camp gens for a while. It doesn’t really matter jailer doesn’t get a chasing benefit because he starts chases much easier and just in general, it’s still a second killer helping you, it’s still strong.

    really Assassin is usually the weakest but the deep wound makes up for assassin having the worst pressure.

    Assassin is the fastest guard, and applies Deep Wounds, Jailer is the weakest cause all he can do is guard, and not even the hook since you can cancel a chase by unhooking.

  • @TeabaggingGhostface said:

    Pocket legion chases faster and gives deep wound

    Chunky boi chases longer and breaks stuff faster

    Mr manacles patrols longer and wider, nothing else

    Give him a second effect

    Precisely, either Hindered in chase or Incapacitated on hit, if he manages it.

  • @JimmyCasket said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3342408#Comment_3342408

    Assassin is the fastest guard, and applies Deep Wounds, Jailer is the weakest cause all he can do is guard, and not even the hook since you can cancel a chase by unhooking.

    I get assassin is fast and applies deep wound, but it’s often he gets the least value overall, carnifex basically guarentees a hit in a good chase, jailer’s gen guarding is very strong and starts hunts very consistently while in chases. I get that jailer is “technically” the worst guard for chasing, but i don’t see him as the worst guard overall.

    the assassin’s deep wound is kinda pointless if you’re committed to someone and while the speed may help in chase, more than likely, jailer could 9/10 get similar results or open up a survivor to hit. Not to mention, assassin has the weakest pressure, because jailer has strong gen guard, and carnifex keeps someone busy for 24 seconds. If a survivor just starts running immediately, assassin won’t even catch up anyway making the deep wound extremely pointless against high skill teams.

    also, about the fact jailer can’t defend hooks, if you are defending hooks in knight matches, just use knight himself to proxy and let the guards do a bit of slowdown. The 2 guards with slower breaking speeds can actually help you more in those situation since while they’re spending time breaking, the survivors can’t repair.

  • @leviivel said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3344187#Comment_3344187

    I get assassin is fast and applies deep wound, but it’s often he gets the least value overall, carnifex basically guarentees a hit in a good chase, jailer’s gen guarding is very strong and starts hunts very consistently while in chases. I get that jailer is “technically” the worst guard for chasing, but i don’t see him as the worst guard overall.

    the assassin’s deep wound is kinda pointless if you’re committed to someone and while the speed may help in chase, more than likely, jailer could 9/10 get similar results or open up a survivor to hit. Not to mention, assassin has the weakest pressure, because jailer has strong gen guard, and carnifex keeps someone busy for 24 seconds. If a survivor just starts running immediately, assassin won’t even catch up anyway making the deep wound extremely pointless against high skill teams.

    also, about the fact jailer can’t defend hooks, if you are defending hooks in knight matches, just use knight himself to proxy and let the guards do a bit of slowdown. The 2 guards with slower breaking speeds can actually help you more in those situation since while they’re spending time breaking, the survivors can’t repair.

    Assassin is Knight's Anti-Dead Hard guard. That's his main purpose, let's be honest. Inflicts Deep Wounds so you can't use DH.