Artist Gameplay and Delta
I'm covering two topics here:
(a) Getting feedback on my gameplay as Artist; and secondarily
(b) Discussing and showing the delta between a strong and weak similar playstyle Killer (Artist and Knight) and discussing how it promotes tunneling and camping if anyone is interested (I don't camp or tunnel myself as I think it's overkill but can see how it can come out of frustration)
The match results were as follows:
Map: Fractured Cowshed
Results: 3K + Hatch
First Survivor Killed: 8 hooks
Gens Remaining At End: 2
Playstyle: Macro strategy, Map pressure, no tunneling, no camping
Perks: Overcharge, Surveillance, Lethal Pursuer, Face the Darkness
The video for the Artist match is here. I totally blew my opener and chased a Steve for too long in the opening and lost 2 gens quickly despite getting early pressure with LP. My bird legs came back a few minutes into the match despite me still messing up an easy hit at shack later on.
https://youtu.be/kwzqxt6s0ssThe Claudette was a backfill from pre-game lobby into the match and was noticeably newer than the rest but competent (which I define as average at least) but the other survivors were pretty decent.
For the delta, I'm specifically pinging @StarLost ,@Rulebreaker and @Krazzik as they had pretty good feedback on my previous thread so that would be cool if you could take a look. If anyone else is interested, please feel free to look and comment as well. The previous thread I'm referring to is linked below.
@TheSubstitute said:
Most recent match summary
Map: Borgo (Shattered Square)
Results: 3K + 1 Hatch escape
Gens Left At Very End: 2
First Survivor Killed At: Hook Eight
Build: Discordance, Nowhere to Hide, Floods of Rage, Call of Brine
The reason I'm curious is because I see practically every Knight camp survivors or just 3 gen from the start and I don't. I don't think it's necessary, or at least I don't find it necessary to camp survivors, as the Knight to get effective results in regular play (I don't do tournaments so I'm not commenting on those) and that there are other other playstyles available.
I did record a video showing my most recent game. I was tired, clunky and Borgo is typically my worst map to play on as I've played it the least and I made mistakes but, as you can see in the video, I deliberately switched targets, gave the survivors time to reset and still got a 3K with the survivors struggling to get gens done with only one gen regression perk and 3 info perks.
I know the survivors aren't on the level of Hens but the worst you can say is that they were competent and I don't know what MMR I'm at of course but, from the amount of wins I've had, I'm at a decent level.
Is it a just this is my playstyle thing or why don't I see more Knights playing in a similar fashion to what I did? If you have any questions as to why I did what I did I'm more than happy to answer and please feel free to give your opinion on my question (but if you're going to comment on how I play Knight please watch the video at first at least and not just give an assumption). Also, I'm not a streamer or content creator so I apologize for the fact there's no editing, summaries or commentary in the video.
For the delta, and the comparison, I think the delta between the stronger and weaker Killers is pretty large. I do consider the Knight to be a B to B+ tier Killer (which I define as average to above average) but the Artist is a S tier Killer. I think it's pretty apparent from a comparison between the two matches that, while I was able to comeback and hold the survivors at only 2 gens done the majority of the match as Artist the gameplay mechanics of the Knight would have made it hard for me to have gotten a draw and extremely hard to win after a poor opener.
This delta, not just between Artist and Knight, but between all of the stronger and weaker Killers should be more of a priority for BHVR in my opinion. While I think tunneling and camping is overkill in most matches in general play, the delta helps promote it as if somebody loses at the character selection screen that leads to frustration that, in turn, leads to tunneling and camping to try to even the odds or trying out stronger Killers that they might not like as much as the weaker Killers but are more viable.
In short, for any discussion on reducing tunneling and camping in DbD, I think that buffing weaker Killers to be closer to the stronger Killers should be on the same level as buffing anti-tunneling and anti-camping tools for survivors so that both Killer and Survivor players can avoid frustration.
Comments
Okay. Let me go with timestamps this time, because Artist is probably my strongest killer. Be warned, I may come over snarky, but apparently that's just how I write. No snark intended.
Staring out - I'm a little confused at your perk choice.
LP - Yes. Makes absolute sense, because Artist thrives on info.
Surveillance - Nah. It's not a great perk all told, and it doesn't really synergize with her. I guess you're trying to nudge people off gens, but in that case, you have better options.
Overcharge - I actually liked this perk for a bit, but...it sucks. No bones, it sucks. It even sucks brought with other perks. 12 seconds to catch up to regular regression...that's ridiculous.
That Knight Perk I Can Never Remember The Name Of - Eh. It's...fine, but again - you're clearly going for info. I think 2 of your 3 info perks are giving you the wrong sort of info.
I'd go with the following, along your theme:
The trial.
1:42 - With LP, don't shoot birds right away. Get close. You've just told them who you are and one of your perks, and survivors tend to move around a lot to start anyway. I do like your addons though...dammit I wish you'd had Discordance.
1:54 - Actually a nice snipe, but I still think this could have been a proper chase and a down instead.
2:07 - I think that Claudette was in the other 'hut', and snuck off while you checked. It happens, but don't loiter. A quick peek in either one to make sure she's not hiding, then go go go. Also - If you aren't chasing or about to chase, keep birds on cooldown. It's passive slowdown, essentially, and you can send survivors false information about where you are by waiting to fire.
2:35 - As a rule, on Artist, don't break any pallet that isn't a god pallet. Pallets are survivor traps for you to bird them on. Especially don't break it when you've got multiple folks to be chasing :)
-> 3:21 - That Steve chase was rough. At one point, when he dropped the pallet, get all 3 birds out and shotgun him. Single bird snipes are difficult and something you'll learn.
3:27 - Don't vault that on Artist. You want him on that loop. Line two birds up laterally along the sides and he's completely trapped unless he drops that pallet, one of the strongest on the map. You then drop chase - okay.
3:40 - Unless you're Erupting, there's no reason to take a kick at a gen that low, even with Surv. Go break that door, see if you can pick up her trail. It does pay off a touch later though so...who knows?
4:25 - Rather spread the birds out a bit more for a shotgun. But that's a situation where she could be anywhere - save them, close the distance.
5:01 - Steve, why aren't you healed yet? Oh, Dead Hard. Yeah, now you know it's there. Next time, bird him and shotgun, because even if he uses it you're right on him.
5:25 - You had her. Release the birds sooner!
5:50 - That would have been the perfect time to shotgun.
6:19 - This...might have lost you the game. I'm amazed you didn't drop her.
6:43 - Nice. This feels like where you could snowball.
7:05 - A trick, on Artist. If you aren't chasing, and especially with that addon, set up three birds aimed right at the hook once you're out of sight. You'll either proc End, DH, injure the unhooker or all 3.
7:22 - If you'd fired right there, you'd have hit her.
7:58 - You birded two, shotgun, then close in. Your addons make this even better.
8:15 - What is that Claudette doing? Ugh.
9:02 - You could have had a second hook on Steve, but you do start hooking people and the game starts leveling out.
16:08 - Fire a second earlier, you'd hit him.
16:10 - I'd have kept chasing.
16:37 - Get your birds back, send 1 out to each gen.
16:53 - You can hear her. Send a bird to the pallet area.
17:00 and the ensuing chase - ditto.
17:20ish - Find that Claud, ignore the Feng.
17:34 - That gen is getting done, sadly. Not even worth a kick. Chase that Steve instead.
17:42 - Some indecision. You see a survivor that's injured, you chase.
18:05 - Huh, ignore me. That Steve pooped the sheets and you saved the gen for a bit. Now win this.
19:59 - Again, either shoot or don't. I would have fired at her, as she's trying to greed the gen. One bird, immediately. But you just win from here, so well done.
To the other question, Knight needs help. We'll see how the patch goes.
Perfect, sounds great. Thanks for the detailed analysis. I appreciate it and I'm going to start reviewing it on the timestamps. Thanks again.
Another fun perk on her that I forgot is Plaything. It's a mindgame - they will assume you have Pentimento and won't clear them. So...as long as you're hooking different people, you may as well have no TR.
Keep in mind we have a different playstyle with our artist so take everything with a grain of salt.
As Starlost said above, perk choice is abit odd for artist (though we don't have room to say much considering our normal build). While lethal is fine, overcharge, surveillance dont really do much for her, though you seemed to make face the darkness work for you so that was a pleasant surprise. We'd recommend switching out overcharge for pain res and surveillance for something else. For fun we'd say dark devotion (its hilarious having it proc at a distance), for practical deadmans (common, unoriginal, but undeniably effective) or iron maiden (lockers immediately remove swarms and a good chunk of players who know how to face artist liberally use them like steve did at the 16 min mark).
First thing we noticed is when you tried hurting survivors with the birds you kept stacking them on top of each other instead of spreading them out for better coverage like what you did at the barn at around the 9 min mark ("shotgun"). If your trying to get a hit out of the birds from a distance your gona want better area coverage atleast till you get a good feel for how everything works (gotta factor in how the survivors behave throughout the match, what the smart thing would be, would they do the smart thing, etc). Moving left or right gives a sort of carpet effect which helps (hard to explain but basically a wall of birds to sweep the targets) but credit due, you were getting a hang of it near the end. 13:13 was a nice set up, especially with the hands add on.
Overall you got the right idea for actually playing her (actively going for long range or creative hits instead of just stopping loops till wall) but need abit more work for execution (mainly the "shotgun" as it would have ended with many more hits). See starlost's list for more detailed...instructions? (we dont know what to call it so we gona say instructions for giggles)
As for the delta conversation, while we agree that bringing "weaker" killers up to a certain bar would help more than buffing perks in the long term, we don't think it will do enough as people will do whatever they wish, and what they will probably wish is for the easiest path to victory, which in turn leads them to think about tunneling the weak link. We also don't believe in losing at the selecting screen as everyone is "viable" at any level (depending on how hard they work for it mind, which isn't exactly appealing in a game ment to unwind...your gona be working VERY hard as sadako or twins compared to bleet or nurse). Honestly we feel its maps that cause that thought process more than the killers themselves. For example, we love hag and knight at lery's but will absolutely hate if we end up at erye as them (as an aside STOP WITH THE OFFERINGS PEOPLE, WE'RE RUNNING OUT OF WARDS).
The difference in power between the higher tier and lower tier killers indeed makes it much harder to balance 'killers' vs 'survivors' as a whole. I mean you can look at Trapper, Wraith, Legion, Freddy, and you can see that there are common ways they struggle to get kills. Even the statistics may show them not doing all that well, but if you try and buff them globally, that means buffing Nurse, Blight, Spirit, Artist, killers that most can agree really -don't- need buffs. Heck look at the 6.1 global killer buffs, and how as I said, they did help out killers who just didn't need them. If all killers were as strong as Blight, there wouldn't have even been a suggestion for killer buffs. Likewise if all killers were Trapper-tier, well, no one would be playing Killer :p
This also goes back into what I said in the other thread, killers that are considered weaker are more likely to tunnel/camp/3-gen, because people think that weak killers -need- to do those things in order to have a chance against good survivors. This is -especially- true if they have a bad start. A Nurse who has a long first chase and loses two or even three gens may not worry too much, because her sheer power makes snowballs a lot more likely, and so she may continue to play 'normally'. A Freddy who loses two or three gens in the first chase is much more likely to think "Screw it, I -need- to tunnel/camp if I'm gonna get any kills in this game" because his weak killer power makes it much harder to put pressure on survivors who are already in a strong position.
This of course doesn't mean there aren't tunneling Nurses, nor does it mean that weaker killers don't try to spread out hooks, this is just generally-speaking.
Basically as long as there is such a gulf in power between the top tier killers and the bottom tier killers, I think global buffs aren't really a good idea. Now I understand that reworking every individual weaker killer to try and make them stronger is waaaaay more work then just blanket buffs. And I would rather get blanket buffs rather than nothing, but we really do need to see more changes aimed at closing the gap between the Nurses and the Trappers, just like we need to close the gap between SWFs and Solo queue if we're ever gonna get decent balance.
Cool, thank you for the feedback and responses. I'll try out the suggestions and reflect on the feedback and discussion points. Thanks again, I appreciate it.