Should surviving be an expectation?
This game is labeled as a "asymmetrical horror" one could argue that it really is neither, at least for experienced/good players.
The fact that after a while the game gets figured out and you either conform to few proven paths, or go your own and accept that the game probably won't be in your favor.
I think this comes in part partially for the fact that survivor's are pretty much guaranteed to escape when the game is trying to be balanced around two escaping. This can only lead to certian builds, intended to take advantage of the key conditions in order to win, and will rule the game.
Survivor's expect to escape - so they must do gens, and asap because the killers are expect two get to kills (let's be honest they expect 4). They are in a race to do so before the survivors who are rushing to not get killed power the gates.
The perks and character that allow each side to do the best will set the tone of the game because most play to win.
This game is shallow and all of us were OK with that because it wasn't trying to be more then it was, which is a glorified version of freeze tag. Now it is trying to deepen its self, and allow people develop certian play styles but with pre-set stats, and this doesn't seem to be sitting well with many of the gamer demographics. Too intense for casual gamers and an on the rails for rpg/character development folks for example.
I don't think gens need to be increased or that a second objective is required or nefring noed or removing moris ect....... is going to fix this. Surviving and killing needs to be harder and or more based on skill. Stealth players should be able to play and win differently then in your face aggressive players.
Essentially this game needs to be left alone soon, and they need to start working on larger, or more in depth version of their dream. The current product doesn't seem to please many.
Comments
The emblem system is not reflective of player opinion, especially not killers who have had the most to complain about for every version of the ranking system that has been used.
Nor does the killer in-game making a straightforward logical choice mean they are judging the match based on how many kills they got. Killers have disagreed about how their performance has been measured since release and this is one of many aspects where it seems patently obvious killers are not listened to, by the devs of by survivors.
In fact one of the ways of pro-actively not-listening has been to keep asserting that killers say or think things which we actually don't. Often it's the total opposite of what we think. No matter how many times we say we don't judge how the match went based on kills/escapes, it never seems to sink in because it conflicts with the group-think that 'killers just want 4k all the time'.
When it comes to killers laughing at survivor-memes though: every single one of them is based on a direct-quote of a survivor which can be traced usually on the Steam forum.
I can also say that about how many times you can go on reddit or here and you see a killer also saying something about how a game went and how they didn't get any kills.
Both sides whine and complain. Neither side is innocent of ''expecting" things.
That's the nature of a game. People expect to win no matter what side they are on.
The variable is depending on what the player themselves consider a win. Some survivors might consider getting their teammates out a win, some survivor might consider getting a decent amount of bloodpoints a win, some probably and a lot probably consider it getting out through the gate the hatch.
And some killers might consider a win 2 kills, or at least a kill, or getting a lot of bloodpoints and hooking every survivor at least twice, and a lot might consider it ''I got a 4k and no one left through the gate or hatch."
It still doesn't negate the fact both sides will go on forums and complain though. As many stupid forum survivor quotes there are? There's an equal amount for the other side of the game too.
All based in truth.
Well who needs to listen when you already know the truth?
To be fair the game is in a state where good players now succeed more than the average one. This is evident when reading posts about balance issues on both sides.
Some think it's killer favoured and others think it's survivor favoured. Over the past 18 months the game has been shifting to a more skill based system where you need to be at a certain level to rank up. The thing is a lot of people who used to get to a rank bracket and no longer being able too don't seem to like it as they feel they should be at a level they are not.
A lot of players would like this to move more competative than it is. It's really not a competative game and the add-ons and items show that. To have these strong game changing aspects means the game can never be at a level for competative play as you can win a lot easier with certain ones in matches where you would otherwise not have a chance.
DBD can never be truly balanced as a 5k hour players can verse a 50h player. It's not a game designed to be esports but instead grinding for points to get certain perks and outfits or just having fun hiding, running, chasing and sacrificing.
I do think some take it way too seriously and that's more on an issue than the balance. They focus on the end goal instead of just having fun throughout the match win or lose.
The one aspect I do agree with is the ranks system some have mentioned. If balance if 2 die 2 escape then killer should awlays pip with 2 dying even if it means needing 10 hooks as you get to the tiger ranks. To have a perfect balanced match and not see a reward is a bit confusing.
I think the reason it's so high for killers is probably because of how Survivor ranks are rewarded. You're basically competing with your teammates for every emblem. I don't think all four survivors can get iridescent in every category. For example, four survivors can't do two gens each, and I think you need 2.5 gens to get iridescent in objectives. Only one person can be actively in a chase at a time, altruism also really only goes to 2 people at most unless they're allowing you to hit them so they can heal each other, and can only get decent survival if you manage to get out, and you can't get 8000 from just getting out. The only way you can pip in red while still dying is by getting iridescent in everything else. Killer needs something equally as difficult as one survivor because each one is an individual player.
You can't make survivor harder to pip in because it's 4 people, because each one of those should have an individual rank. In order to balance pips for 2k/2 escape, they'd have to make survivor easier to pip as well. Perhaps people are looking at this as a way of pipping as wrong, because a red rank killer is SUPPOSED to be above average. This would mean they do above the average, which the average would be meant as 2k/2 escape. We can't make survivor easier to pip, and we can't make killer easier to pip as a result, otherwise the level of difficulty in killer pipping lowers while survivor stays the same difficulty. I think we should just assume a red ranked killer is better than the average, and thus should be expected to do more than the average to be ranked as such, in the same way a red ranked survivor is better than average, and is expected to do more as such.
Also keep in mind, if we make killer ranks easier, then we'll have less experienced killers in red ranks.
Survivor has its own problem as you don't get rewarded for being in a chase all game if you can't lose the killer or just do gens.
Unlike killer though you can get rewarded with a perfect balance of 2 the 2 escape even if you do die.
I know they can't make aurvivor harder as I was one who posted when they did. It just makes queue times for killer longer at certain ranks.
I am not a fan of the emblem system as it doesn't make for more diverse play. Survivors should be able to stealth and be rewarded for example and Killers shouldn't be hindered for chases going on too long even if they kill all 4 and some killers get penalised for using their power.
It's why I would prefer ranking to be removed and instead replace it with a monthly progression system. Matchmaking could them be looked at as a seperate system where it takes in more factors and that would remove new players from getting bullied by veterans just because they can manipulate their ranks so easily.
Survivors lobbied for and recieved changes to the Emblem system in PTB such that it would reward them for stalling the killer in a chase all-game and allow them to pip. Let me know when that was changed since.
Does that mean we can also get a instaheal/key/insta-box rework too?
Is dwindle a word from Dwight? Never heard that before lol.
I agree with some parts of you. Survivors got a lot of nerfs of the time, some where needed (old bnp for example), but other nerf where just there to remove even when killers never complainedabout that (for example the recent vault nerf making it much more difficult to do last second fast vaults)
I see spirit much more as an issue than nurse and Billy. Especially after they reworked Nurse addons removing omega and multiple blinks I think she would be fine. But that's a bit personal taste. But there is no denying in that like 50+% hates going against spirit. Not because she's strong, but because she's unfun, as you described. At least make it fun to go against
Noone cares about emblems and pips. It's just a participation trophy till there is a meaning behind d hitting rank 1.
Also, noone likes losing. When 3+ kills becomes standard more and more people will move on to play killer. And we already seen that, killer q times are horrible long because of lack of survivors.
I'd like to clarify my Billy comment from earlier to be honest.
I feel at base kit? He's fine. He's what a killer should be. He's strong, he's fun to play, and he's fun and scary to play against for survivor, but also can be countered.
The problem with him? He became an utter monster of balance issues when some of the perks that have since come out came out. Newer aura reading and location info perks give him the means to 4k super easily.
You don't even need generator stalling perks on him, yet people will run them.
His biggest weakness is looping him and making him into an M1 killer, but that goes away with Enduring and Spirit Fury and he basically is back in business before you know.
TLDR?
A Hillbilly running Ruin, Enduring, Spirit Fury, and BBQ? He's gone from one of the most polished and balanced killers to an over the top monster.
So it's less about Billy and more about being able to stack such powerful perks onto an already powerful killer.
They keep saying "we want to close the gap between solos and swf so we can buff killers more" but all the devs did was buffing killers and their perks more and more or nerfing survivors and their perks. The joke: it was nearly always hurting solos and more than swf groups, which made the gap bigger and bigger.
I would not ask if surviving should be the expectation. Rather I would say, it should be earned.
Of course, it is hard to earn anything, if the killer is op, or underpowered. In the first case, you won't be able to earn anything, in the second case you earn nothing and just outmatch a killer who have it 3 times harder as you.
@Talmeer I asked that question based on the idea that once a survival game tries to balance surviving every game, it leaves open a gray area full of exploitable and preferential, builds and tactics.
I think what you say "should it be earned" is essentially getting at the same point.
Yes, escaping needs to be earned and I think survivors should have a strong means of doing so, however they remain soft and fleshy and vulnerable.
Killers should have a wide range of tools and strengths but also come with certian weaknesses. One hit potential offset with a poor tracking ability, or high level of stealth offset with low mobility.