Idea to improve sabo
Sabotaged hooks will be permanent now, but only two hooks can be sabotaged at once. Sabotaging a third hook will make the first hook instantly respawn. Additionally, if a survivor dies all sabotaged hooks will respawn instantly.
The idea here is to give survivors a way to make safe zones, but allow for counter play using carrying perks, Hangman's Trick, or Oak offerings.
Comments
As you said, this would create absolute safe zones. The killer would not be able to get survivors to a hook which means he would have to rely on slugging. (Good luck doing that, the survivors have to play bad for that to be a successful strategy when everyone is still alive.)
And forcing the killer to run perks to counter bad game design? No way.
We had exactly this situation a long time ago and it led to immense frustration. And no, it doesn't matter if the safe zone stretches over half the map or just a corner. Permanent safe zones are bad game design. That's why hooks respawn after 3 minutes, that's why there's a hook now at the top of Thompson House.
It's bad enough that we already have kind of safe zones (badly designed looping spots where the killer has to abandon the chase in order to not throw the entire match).
Personally, Sabotaged Hooks should appear worn out to warn the killer of the following:
Disagree.
Sabotage is one of the Things were I think it is ok to be weak. It has its strategic uses, but it should not be so strong, because putting people on the Hook is a Core Design of the game and there should not be a super-reliable way to deny it.
And saboing two hooks near a Gen you are working on can indeed create a pretty safe Area, especially, if you can build up the next safe area on the next gen. And when I think about how fast you can sabotage a Hook...Nah.
Just imagine the School in Badham. It got better with the Rework, but it can still take some time to catch a Survivor there. And then the basement is not located in the School and the Hooks near the School are gone. This Gen is 100% free, the Killer cannot patrol it anymore, because it will be impossible to hook people there.
And last but not least, we dont need a Slugging-Meta. I rather die quickly by getting tunneled than having to wait for 4 minutes to bleed out.
@NMCKE As a killer, I could intentionally hook the survivor on the sabotaged hook, the survivor loses a hook phase, then after the stun has worn off, I chase after the survivor to put him on the next hook.
I think this would encourage tunneling.
The thing is these "safe zones" would be very very small if you could only do 2 hooks. It would mostly be limited to corners of the map and such.
And this is just the base idea. It could be that maybe only 1 hook could be sabo'd at a time or something, but doing it on a second hook maybe forces the first to respawn in 30 seconds. Then you could have a super small "safe zone" where you could sabo another hook or 2 nearby when needed but then it's only going to help in the moment you need it (when killer is carrying a survivor).
A slugging-meta would only happen if you bring sabo though. If you didn't sabo you wouldn't need to be slugged. Therefore it makes sense that if you plan to sabo you will bring anti-slug perks too which is already the case. This change would just make it more viable in general play and you wouldn't be reliant on comms to make use of sabo.
If killers run a perk build that focusses on slugging, then they are going to slug and make use of it.
As @Aven_Fallen said, hooks are a core mechanic and bleeding to death is super boring. There is no need to encourage hook sabotage, it will lead to frustration on both sides.
If killer runs a perk build focused on slugging, then sabo won't matter. You're talking about a chicken before the egg problem.
Again, if you sabo expect to be slugged, therefore run Unbreakable or something. It's in the survivors control, so if you sabo and get slugged you really can't be mad about it since you did it to yourself.
You forgot one thing tho, tunneling is inefficient because 3 survivors are left uncontested on generators. Imagine everytime I was hooked, it was a sabotaged hook — that would be 4 chases plus I don't die when it's my sacrifice hook.
Therefore, until the killer finds a regular hook, I'm invincible because sabotaged hooks can't sacrifice survivors.
It's a trade off, killers get their hook, but survivors get to escape. This could be great for last second escapes, and could prevent survivors that would've died on the hook more chances.
I mean, wouldn't all smart survivors go to those safe zones when they're about to go down? Or ask everyone to just bring Sabo to sabo 8 hooks?
"You forgot one thing tho, tunneling is inefficient because 3 survivors are left uncontested on generators." Erm...yes...tunneling is very efficient because the greatest pressure you can put on survivors is reducing their number. That's why a lot of killers tunnel.
Also, assuming every hook is sabotaged is a bit wild.
If saboing became a meta, slugging builds would become meta. And then killers would use their slug builds to slug, whether they face a sabo team or not.
I don't want to start writing a novel. We have seen a couple of years ago how unhealthy it is for this game if sabo can create permanent safe zones.
This is actually possible because with my idea, hooks aren't destroyed — they are just worn out instead. Hooks only break when the killer uses a worn out hook, so survivors can have areas where they are safe from being sacrificed.
Okay, yes. I can see groups, especially SWF, sabotaging the entire map at the beginning of the match and then they would be unkillable (except for bleed-out). Like back in 2016.
And you think this is a good idea?
I mean, it depends, my idea isn't like final, but it would make sabotage fun for both sides. :)
Survivors get a second chance at the cost of a hook state, and killers get their hook.
Perhaps, when a survivor is on sacrifice hook and they are hooked on a sabotaged hook for the second time, they are instantly sacrificed?
@NMCKE Assuming you would face a sabo squad: Why should it be fun for a killer if he was unable to kill anybody? Even if he would have to hook somebody 4 times, this would just lead to frustration and more toxicness. This is not a fun game mechanic.
It was only unhealthy because survivors could perma-sabo every hook on the map. I'm talking about 1-2 hooks. You can't really create a super safe zone on most maps with that limitation, you mostly just force the killer to hook away from certain areas or make it difficult to hook if they catch you in certain spots.
Allowing 1-2 perma-sabo hooks wouldn't create a sabo meta for the sheer fact that it's so limited. But it would make sabo a more viable option in the standard match, instead of a gimmick that only works when you 99 every hook as an SWF.
@thesuicidefox @NMCKE Guys, sabo is fine. No need to meddle with something that works.
It's really not. It's a gimmick tactic that only works if you are in a 4 man SWF.
"No need to meddle with something that works"
I can't recall the last time a hook was sabotaged, and even then, you can just go to the next hook if you get your hook sabotaged. I think the killer has 16 seconds to hook a survivor, which is 58.88 meters you can travel (assuming you walk in a straight line).
If you can't hook anyone, slug, someone has to pick them up eventually. They have Unbreakable or No Mither? Ignore them, they are probably wasting time sabotaging more hooks instead of working on generators.
My point? Sabotage has so many counters.
Sabotage is better, I'll admit that, but it's still not good. Let's assume the number 5 is when Sabotage is in the sweet spot, and 0 was where it use to be. The previous sabotage buff probably increased sabotage by roughly 1.5 in my opinion. We still have 3.5 to go before sabotage is in a good spot. :)