Gate Locations for the new End Game Collapse need a Rework.
[Introduction]:
Hello, some of you my recognize me from months ago when I was pretty active on the forums. I may not be as active as I was back three months ago but I want to address my feelings towards whats happened as of late since I've returned into the fold.
I noticed a fair few updates have rolled out fixing several issues, but one caught my eye above the rest... And that is the new End Game that was added to counteract issues of hatch stand offs since this game was first released back in 2016. And my opinion on it... Is not a favorable one for some to read, but hear me out as I explain why I dislike what has happened.
[Past Issues]:
For one we must go back to the root of the issue, the hatch stand off. While this was a big issue over the years it at least made sense around the core mechanic it followed. (The killer and the last remaining survivor are given a 50-50 chance on either who finds the hatch first.) This I don't mind at all since THAT wasn't at all part of the issue. What was part of the issue was if the killer found the hatch first, as all they could do at the time was either stand there and wait for the survivor or gamble and try to catch the survivor lurking around before they figure out where the hatch is also. Most of the time...this didn't work in the killers favor at all, and this led to the infamous "Hatch Stand off(s)" that were a looming issue for years.
They tried a counter to this back when the Clown was first introduced but this was met with poor ratings as it just led to a glorified game of hide and seek, and the survivor was given the full opportunity to just hide the entire time to spite the killer or "BM" as some will say.
[My "Opinion"]:
The concept of the new endgame isn't why I dislike it no, what I dislike is how it is presented currently in matches. We all know the routine, Slash, Hook, Patrol, Repeat. These are the 4 things a killer primarily does during each trial, and during the trial a certain scenario may comes in where only the killer and one survivor remain.
As a result the concept of who finds the hatch first comes into play, and during any number of generators remaining this will occur. Now if the survivor finds it first, the survivor escapes. But now if the Killer finds it first they're greeted with an option from past PTBs to close said hatch and begin a timer for the last survivor to open any of the two gates and escape that way, removing the "instant win" mechanic and replacing it with what we're currently given now.
to be honest I like this mechanic, it allows the killer a chance to kill the last survivor instead of just giving up at the end as most killers used to do. What I dislike however is the scenario where both gates are at an arms length from one another, which in most of the matches I've had since I returned they were always together unless it was say Lerys, or The game where both gates are always across the map. But now we have this where a scenario like I had can occur where you may ALSO have a hill to stand on and view both gates from a far to watch for the survivor to walk by and open either one.
THAT is my main issue right there, that literal impossible scenario for the last survivor can even happen blows my mind as a killer main. For me I seek a fair game every time I begin a trial, I don't camp, I don't tunnel (Accidental tunnels don't count in that statement), and I seek for a fun experience for both party's.
But now we have glorified death timer at the end when this scenario occurs which leaves the last survivor in a place to just give up and die you can't do ANYTHING to counter this, nothing at all. You're better of DCing (Not promoting that its just for context) than to sit for 2 minutes and just die.
[My suggestion to fix this]:
Now Remember Me can blow this suggestion out of the water, but it at least gives the last survivor a fighting chance. I suggest we have the gates spawn on opposite sides of the map for all maps, OR at least have them never spawn next to each other like they tend to do. Since scenarios like I had can occur where you can just patrol or see both from a hill and the survivor is just boned from there.
This has always been an issue in-game regardless before this update was even rolled out, so it needs to happen even more BECAUSE of this update.
[Closing statement]:
I always try to live by what I said above where I seek to have a fair and fun match for both party's, and that can only go so far when the game allows you to just negate that during the end.
You could just say "Well if its such an issue than just don't close the hatch and resume hatch stand offs" and to that I disagree as that will just revert us back to the main problem at hand instead of moving forward. What I suggested above can at least help in some way to this issue as I believe this new End Game mechanic is leagues above the previous we've had for 3 years now.
At the end of the day though, all I can say is I'd want a fair and fun experience and i'm sure most of you do as well.
[TL;DR]:
We need to change the gate spawns during End Game, or we'll have scenarios like I had where the Killer can just have a vantage point over both gates and the last survivor is just screwed.
Comments
@FireHazard
Well, let's consider some other variables:
If the survivor starts opening the gates whenever the Hag is 28.4 meters away (added 4.4 meters to her 24 meter terror radius to account for that extra second it takes to walk to the exit gates and start opening it), she will see the other gate from 16 meters in 9.9 seconds, assuming the gates spawned 88 meters from each other. Then she will comeback to see the gates opened at 16 meters in 12.7 seconds. The gates were already opened for 1.8 seconds because she made the trip to the second gate and back.
This is acceptable because she didn't put a trap at the gates, which would had bought her 2-5 seconds worth of time. Huntress is a complete different story because her secondary terror radius is 40 meters which can cause survivors to be too safe.
Perhaps there can be a sort of system where gates have a specific distance they spawn for specific killers put in place.
@FireHazard
That would work perfectly but again, that depends on the developers since it's their game.
I mean hey, they said on stream its all RNG so they can't do anything. But I feel they say that because they haven't actually considered that option yet.
Maybe if they see this post they'll think about it, or if someone asks in their Q&A
Hopefully this post, or an echo of this post can get to BHVR's ears. Or not, we'll have to see.
So at his third chance at escaping, instead it being about their wit's, you want it to be about the coin toss if the first gate the killer checks is the one the sirvivor camped since the hstch opens?
Wanting it mathematically inlikely for the killer being able to patrol the gates ONCE while the gate gets opened in one sitting... are you even thinking about this nonsense?
Long live queen sally, her reign will be eternal. if those ideas go through.
I've patrolled gates that're not 24 meters away like in my scenario above, and 9 times out of 10 there's a view between the two (excluding Lery's and The Games, those are set Gate locations that're across the map every trial) and most of the time i'll know where the survivor is because I can physically SEE the red lights on the doors.
Also explain how this is their "third chance of escaping" nobody likes to elaborate on that, if you're say in a team and everyone did their part but still died you're given a coin toss of you either finding the hatch first or the killer. Than after that you're given a 2nd chance to open either gate when the EGC starts. That's two chances, idk where a third came into this equation but someones not doing their math right.
I'd rather a coin toss at the 2nd chance than a literal unfair end to the game where the killer could have a vantage point over both gates from a hill.
Struggle all you want, the Entity wants sum of that survivor ass. I guess that's what survivors want for their End Game though, my bad looking out for y'all.
As I wrote in another thread, a gate spawning algorithm might be too complicated. Alternatively, the devs could create 5-6 different fixed gate spawn scenarios for each map of which one gets chosen randomly.
To make it perfect, take into account the killer's speed at which he can't patrol the gates.
Keep in mind that there are not only "unfair" gate spawns for survivors, there are also gates spawning on opposite sides of maps which are impossible to patrol for a killer.
Gate spawn is not only an issue for the EGC when one survivor is left and the hatch closed. It's also an important issue for matches where several survivors are still alive when all gens are done. Gate spawn should not heavily put one side at advantage/disadvantage.
I'm sure if they actually put time and effort into this issue there would be a fair change for everyone.
They've had like 3 years to think of something, if they can't do it in 3 years than I have no idea. (It depends if they even bothered to try and think of something)
First chance: "Do 5 generators, open a gate"
Second chance: "Jump into the hatch"
Third chance: "Open a gate, but with a time limit"
This is just the current trial rules, not even accounting the "second chance/safety net"-perks"
The EGC should be an undesireable situation.
So the EGC should be undesirable... Does that mean it should also be unfair in these scenarios I've presented?
Tried that. I was slugged and had to wait 4 minutes instead of just the 2. Better to hide and wait.
Then that's just the killer BMing you.
Sometimes the gates will be very far apart, some times they will be close yo each other. Deal with it
Also, I see that more often since I saw the EGC launch. I guess its a killers new way to BM survivors.
Exit gates spawns are wonky and yes, they might need to be adjusted. However there are more pressing concerns the devs need to be worried about right now.
Not saying you don't have a point. I just can't see this happening anytime soon considering how many issues this game has.
Well of course, there is a sea of issues that need to be addressed before mine. So i'm not really here to change minds and hearts in an instant, its just to keep things in mind ya know?
Understandable. You wouldn't believe how many people demanded changes and demanded them instantly in these forums.
It how it be sometimes, people expect change in an instant. When it doesn't come they lash out at BHVR and others, so this is where most of them vent.
I understand their frustration but it is misguided.
Holy #########.
Finally someone that gets it.
Someone has to I guess, especially on these forums.
If gates are made to be on opposite sides of the map then closing the hatch would be a bad idea for most killers who don't have mobility. You'd be basically giving the survivor a 50% chance at survival since gates take 20 seconds and getting to both gates in 20 seconds after closing the hatch wouldn't be possible for most killers. Killers would just end up waiting by the hatch until the person runs into them or gives away their location.
For a third chance after failing I don't think it should be that easy to escape. You fail the objective and you get a second chance with the hatch, You fail to get this second chance and are given a third chance. I think leaving it up to RNG is perfectly fine.
This way you have games where survivor sided and some where it's killer. I've seen it done multiple times since the update a survivor waits by the gate, hatch is closed and the gates are open and the survivor is gone before the killer can even get to the gate.
Idk, giving us killers a chance at looking at both gates from a hill seems pretty unfair to me...
Same with the problem with the gates being too far for killers. Maybe if one of the suggested systems were in place it would be left up to a coin toss with some stealth and skill involved?