A guy who's seen DS at it's strongest and his negative opinion on the new changes.

Well, this update is both complex and interesting. I don't believe everyone is focused on how exactly DS works an are instead more interested in the applications that changing obsessions have. I want you to think about this a bit more. I will directly compare the old and the new and point out just how shadowed the actual strength of DS will be.

In the past, anyone and everyone would run DS. You would get immediate skill checks even if you weren't the obsession, so it was a VERY powerful perk. Now, only the Obsession can use it immediately with dribbling as a pseudo counter.

This new change is, in my humble opinion, getting closer to the power of the original DS instead of veering away.

With all the fluff stripped from what's coming along, here is how the new DS will work.

All 4 survivors can run the perk with no drawback like how there is now (35% wiggle until activation). As soon as a survivor is unhooked, they have an opportunity for a guaranteed DS for 60 seconds. Everyone who runs this will get two chances at using it assuming they're hooked twice. You will no longer be able to dribble due to the skill check appearing as soon as you pick the survivor up.

This is a drastic buff to the previous iteration. As a killer, you will have to tunnel someone off hook at some point. There isn't enough time in the game to go and hook everyone 2 or 3 times. You are now PUNISHED for a survivor making an unsafe save. There is no fair counter play.

I've played the game since release and have participated in many high-profile tournaments with intense competition (My team is Instant Dodge for those who care). I speak from a position of an old veteran who doesn't want this change to be overshadowed by the extra changes.

In my opinion, I think that if they didn't do anything else but change this, there would be massive uproar. It could've been consciously buried in these other changes to keep eyes off the perk itself. Let me know what you think.

Comments

  • You are really underestimating the effect that giving it a 60 second window will have. First of all not being able to use it on the first hook means you can get the ball rolling as the first hook is always the most important.

    Second of all the 35% is applicable in a lot of situations, so unless you were downed right next to the hook (which is like a 50/50 occurrence) you can get it off anyways and end up wasting more of the killers time compared to just being the obsession in the first place

    As for the counterplay the main ones are:

    Go for the unhooker
    Slug
    Prevent them from being unhooked

    Of those 3 is the most rewarding and 1 is the most plausible in most situations as borrowed time is common enough to make you want to do that anyways

  • Second of all the 35% is applicable in a lot of situations, so unless you were downed right next to the hook (which is like a 50/50 occurrence) you can get it off anyways and end up wasting more of the killers time compared to just being the obsession in the first place

    With the 35% at least you would have an opportunity to make a hook. With most killers, a DS will lengthen a chase significantly as long as the survivor knows what they are doing. Now, you have no choice but to slug unless you want a DS in the back.

    Slug

    A guaranteed unbreakable will make this choice almost worthless. If they don't have it, unless you're planning on wasting a full minute on watching the body, someone will come and heal.

    Prevent them from being unhooked

    Not going to be possible with the speed generators can be done. You need to exert pressure on the survivors or you will end up losing.

    Overall only a consumable can truly counter DS, those being the Ebony and Ivory moris. This still doesn't bring DS down enough (imo of course).

  • @Financial_Stability Now killers can at least use enduring to counter it since the devs lowered the stun time. Thats fair in my books, at least we can do sth against DS now.... better situation than before lul

  • @Master said:
    @Financial_Stability Now killers can at least use enduring to counter it since the devs lowered the stun time. Thats fair in my books, at least we can do sth against DS now.... better situation than before lul

    I mean enduring worked fine with DS before, and dribbling was a tactic that would also work if you didn't have enduring. In most cases I'd just down the guy with DS in 5 seconds because of enduring so this change doesn't really effect me all that much :p .

  • @Luigifan64 said:

    @Master said:
    @Financial_Stability Now killers can at least use enduring to counter it since the devs lowered the stun time. Thats fair in my books, at least we can do sth against DS now.... better situation than before lul

    I mean enduring worked fine with DS before, and dribbling was a tactic that would also work if you didn't have enduring. In most cases I'd just down the guy with DS in 5 seconds because of enduring so this change doesn't really effect me all that much :p .

    Enduring was not fine with the original DS, the survivor could easily cover enough distance to get to the next loop. Dribbling only works if there is a hook nearby and the DS user can tell his mates that hes being dribbled => bodyblock and you will lose him, might not even have to use his DS

  • @Luigifan64 said:

    @Master said:
    @Financial_Stability Now killers can at least use enduring to counter it since the devs lowered the stun time. Thats fair in my books, at least we can do sth against DS now.... better situation than before lul

    I mean enduring worked fine with DS before, and dribbling was a tactic that would also work if you didn't have enduring. In most cases I'd just down the guy with DS in 5 seconds because of enduring so this change doesn't really effect me all that much :p .

    You can't dribble anymore

  • @Financial_Stability said:

    Second of all the 35% is applicable in a lot of situations, so unless you were downed right next to the hook (which is like a 50/50 occurrence) you can get it off anyways and end up wasting more of the killers time compared to just being the obsession in the first place

    With the 35% at least you would have an opportunity to make a hook. With most killers, a DS will lengthen a chase significantly as long as the survivor knows what they are doing. Now, you have no choice but to slug unless you want a DS in the back.

    Slug

    A guaranteed unbreakable will make this choice almost worthless. If they don't have it, unless you're planning on wasting a full minute on watching the body, someone will come and heal.

    Prevent them from being unhooked

    Not going to be possible with the speed generators can be done. You need to exert pressure on the survivors or you will end up losing.

    Overall only a consumable can truly counter DS, those being the Ebony and Ivory moris. This still doesn't bring DS down enough (imo of course).

    Note how you only covered 2 of my proposed counters and ignored the 3rd.

    You can just go after the other guy

  • Note how you only covered 2 of my proposed counters and ignored the 3rd.

    You can just go after the other guy

    You really think that's a viable option? I intentionally left that out due to how ridiculous it is. If you go by that method, you'll end up hooking everyone equally or losing before you can get anyone sacrificed. I thought that was a given.

    Going after the savior rarely is the best option after an unhook in your face.

  • @Financial_Stability said:

    Note how you only covered 2 of my proposed counters and ignored the 3rd.

    You can just go after the other guy

    You really think that's a viable option? I intentionally left that out due to how ridiculous it is. If you go by that method, you'll end up hooking everyone equally or losing before you can get anyone sacrificed. I thought that was a given.

    Going after the savior rarely is the best option after an unhook in your face.

    Just run Make Your Choice and maybe don't camp? It's your fault for trying to tunnel so the new DS will help you learn to not strictly go after the hooked person. Also getting a 4K isn't the only way to get a "win" anymore, you can still pip or win if you get a 2K, hell you can even pip if you get no kills as long as you keep the map pressure up. I always aim to hook people semi-equally because running BBQ means that you need diverse hooks in order to get the points and I usually get 2K a game so you really don't need to tunnel to get kills.

  • "Just don't tunnel for 60 seconds." 
    -People who have never played killer before, 2019
  • Don't tunnel = free escape with no drawback
    Slug = in order to work you need perks like the knockout and the survivors do not have the unbreakable
    Prevent them from being unhooked = you stay in one area ( maybe with 3 gen at best scenario) and no way to kill the other 3 survivors ( will they gen rush)
    Go for the unhooker = you will lose more time and the other survivor can finish 50 % of one gen at the very minimum

  • @NuclearBurrito said:

    @Luigifan64 said:

    @Master said:
    @Financial_Stability Now killers can at least use enduring to counter it since the devs lowered the stun time. Thats fair in my books, at least we can do sth against DS now.... better situation than before lul

    I mean enduring worked fine with DS before, and dribbling was a tactic that would also work if you didn't have enduring. In most cases I'd just down the guy with DS in 5 seconds because of enduring so this change doesn't really effect me all that much :p .

    You can't dribble anymore

    We were talkign about the current DS yeah

  • You don't always have to tunnel. If you hit someone off an unsafe hook save, slug them and go after the unhooker. Someone else will have to come pick them up, forcing them off a gen, while you work on getting another survivor down. Only one survivor would be on a gen. The new DS promotes more efficient gameplay in general, and forces killers to learn the concept of properly applying pressure, or they'll get punished heavily for it.

  • I seriously believe that a lot of people here were not around for when DS was originally released. This change is bringing slug meta is coming back. Get ready for the infinite whine threads about increased slugging.
  • @Tzeentchling9 said:
    I seriously believe that a lot of people here were not around for when DS was originally released. This change is bringing slug meta is coming back. Get ready for the infinite whine threads about increased slugging.

    And back then we don't have knock out or we use third seal so this month will be fun

  • Just don't tunnel

    It's anti-tunnel

    The only POTENTIAL problem will be the endgame. But that's what the PTB is for.

    This is your first impression; play the PTB and try it out before forming an opinion!

  • I think it promotes slugging, but other than that it's not too incredibly bad. Personally, I think it should be a 30 second timer that pauses when you go down. That way slugging is not a solution, but going on an extended chase is. 
  • Oh no.. How will i tunnel now?

  • Brady said:

    Just don't tunnel

    It's anti-tunnel

    The only POTENTIAL problem will be the endgame. But that's what the PTB is for.

    This is your first impression; play the PTB and try it out before forming an opinion!

    You get unhooked, get healed, and work on a gen for 30 seconds, killer comes checks the gen and downs you. Tunneling where?
  • @Financial_Stability said:

    Note how you only covered 2 of my proposed counters and ignored the 3rd.

    You can just go after the other guy

    You really think that's a viable option? I intentionally left that out due to how ridiculous it is. If you go by that method, you'll end up hooking everyone equally or losing before you can get anyone sacrificed. I thought that was a given.

    Going after the savior rarely is the best option after an unhook in your face.

    Just dont tunnel. Its that easy.
    No tunnel of the hook = No DS

    If you keep tunneling, since its the easiest, most efficient way to end games, then you have to deal with DS. Rightfully so, there should be perks to help counter ez wins strats. New DS will be similar to Ruin. A way to slow down rushing the main objective.

    If you dont tunnel, survivors play with 3 perks if DS becomes meta. Add Borrowed time and they may aswell play with 2-3 perks, just to counter a playstyle you dont have.

  • If you keep tunneling, since its the easiest, most efficient way to end games, then you have to deal with DS. Rightfully so, there should be perks to help counter ez wins strats. New DS will be similar to Ruin. A way to slow down rushing the main objective.

    >

    You don't have time to "not tunnel." Slugging most of the time will be your next best bet but since it may not be worth it to go after the rescuer due to the amount of time it could take to down a survivor. And by then your generators are going to be done before you can sacrifice a good amount of them.

    I don't know how long you've been playing, or if you've played enough killer to get my point. But if you go for it yourself you will see that you don't have time to do that. You're always on a time crunch as killer.

  • would like to point out that you cant use it more than once in a game (go look at the Q&A within the DS post) and that you can just slug or go for the unhooker. I for one will be using rancor more now for the chance to double mori.

  • @Financial_Stability said:

    If you keep tunneling, since its the easiest, most efficient way to end games, then you have to deal with DS. Rightfully so, there should be perks to help counter ez wins strats. New DS will be similar to Ruin. A way to slow down rushing the main objective.

    >

    You don't have time to "not tunnel." Slugging most of the time will be your next best bet but since it may not be worth it to go after the rescuer due to the amount of time it could take to down a survivor. And by then your generators are going to be done before you can sacrifice a good amount of them.

    I don't know how long you've been playing, or if you've played enough killer to get my point. But if you go for it yourself you will see that you don't have time to do that. You're always on a time crunch as killer.

    I play since release without tunneling and camping. Its harder, but manageable. Tunneling is just an overpowered strat imo, it can only be beaten by hard genrushing, since they dont have any spare time left if they want to get the gates open. Its pretty good that there will be a perk to counter this

  • @Weederick said:

    Tunneling is just an overpowered strat imo

    Someone saves a hooked survivor within my terror radius. I could be kicking a generator, and I decide to go back. I have a choice, go for the injured survivor or go for the healthy one. I go for what's best, since it isn't reasonably likely that going for both will get me anywhere. So I go and down the injured one. Boom, DS. No counter, just you get a free escape. We went from a bad unhook punishing the unhooked survivor to punishing the killer. This is not right. As a killer, you do what you can in order to kill everyone. Some abide by unspoken guidelines while others simply do not care. You can do whatever you want when it comes to your play style, it isn't invalid. But neither is anyone else's.

  • @Financial_Stability said:

    @Weederick said:

    Tunneling is just an overpowered strat imo

    Someone saves a hooked survivor within my terror radius. I could be kicking a generator, and I decide to go back. I have a choice, go for the injured survivor or go for the healthy one. I go for what's best, since it isn't reasonably likely that going for both will get me anywhere. So I go and down the injured one. Boom, DS. No counter, just you get a free escape. We went from a bad unhook punishing the unhooked survivor to punishing the killer. This is not right. As a killer, you do what you can in order to kill everyone. Some abide by unspoken guidelines while others simply do not care. You can do whatever you want when it comes to your play style, it isn't invalid. But neither is anyone else's.

    And thats why you eat a DS, because you always take the same easy choice.
    No one forces you to go for the unhooker, but you will outplay decisive strike and borrowed time. Its your choice.
    Same could be said about infinites. Its just the superior choice, why shouldnt they infinite? Does it mean it doesnt need counterplay? Its the superior play to infinite, thus its fine?
    You have the choice and YOU choose to eat DS, not every killer.

  • Just run an ebony mori, lol
    ez clap

  • @Tzeentchling9 said:
    Brady said:

    Just don't tunnel

    It's anti-tunnel

    The only POTENTIAL problem will be the endgame. But that's what the PTB is for.

    This is your first impression; play the PTB and try it out before forming an opinion!

    You get unhooked, get healed, and work on a gen for 30 seconds, killer comes checks the gen and downs you. Tunneling where?

    Well, I highly doubt that 1 minute is enough time for a survivor to get healed, work on a gen, and then get downed again. Unless the killer has the ability to insta-down, of course.

  • @Tzeentchling9 said:
    Brady said:

    Just don't tunnel

    It's anti-tunnel

    The only POTENTIAL problem will be the endgame. But that's what the PTB is for.

    This is your first impression; play the PTB and try it out before forming an opinion!

    You get unhooked, get healed, and work on a gen for 30 seconds, killer comes checks the gen and downs you. Tunneling where?

    Well, I highly doubt that 1 minute is enough time for a survivor to get healed, work on a gen, and then get downed again. Unless the killer has the ability to insta-down, of course.

    It only takes 16 seconds to get healed, a lot of gens are near hooks, and Billy is one of the most played killers at high ranks.

    60 seconds is a very long time in DBD.